Engraving VIN number on a trailer frame

CiniO

Firstly I would like to say, that I'm not looking for legal advice, but rather open discussion on a subject and hoping someone might point me towards adequate legislations.

It's obvious to me that procedure of amending VIN number on a vehicle to change its identity is probably a criminal offence.

However let's say that I have a original Ifor Williams trailer which was assigned a VIN number by manufacturer. This VIN number is engraved on a identification plate which is rivetted to the trailer. However manufacturer never engraved VIN number on the actual frame of the trailer.

Question here is - would that be legal for me to engrave the VIN number assigned by manufacturer to the frame of the trailer?

Marcusm

There could not be any reason to think it unlawful as it does not involve altering or obliterating the original VIN and there is no intent to deceive. There is no law which precludes a person from stencilling the number in paint on the doors of their car either.

It would be consistent with one of the more fundamental common law provisions which we inherited, ie “Everything which is not forbidden is allowed". A different approach would apply in Napoleonic Code or civil law countries.

coylemj

CiniO wrote: »

It's obvious to me that procedure of amending VIN number on a vehicle to change its identity is probably a criminal offence.

Only if it's part of plot to defraud someone e.g. by concealing or altering the original number because you're selling a trailer which has been stolen.

If you're holding on to it, you can take off the existing number, attach a new number or basically do anything you like. It's your trailer.

CiniO

To reveal the reason I'm thinking of doing it, is that trailer exported abroad from Ireland to different EU country needs to be registered there as that's the law in country of destination. (trailers get their own registration number, and registration cert like cars).

Now - that country won't allow registration of trailer which doesn't have VIN number engraved on the frame (VIN on identification plate is not good enough).
And for obvious reasons it's prohibited by that country's law to fiddle with VIN numbers engraved on a vehicle frame.

So my thinking is if I engrave the number on vehicle frame while trailer is still in Ireland, then I won't be breaking Irish law as well as I won't be breaking destination country's law.

Just was looking to find out if any law in Ireland exists that would prohibit me from doing so.

irishfire

No issue with this. In fact, when the new CVRT regulations were introduced by the RSA a few years back, many older trailers had to have their registration numbers indelibly marked on the chassis at a certain height, which meant either stamping out the reg with a punch or using a weld line to mark the reg number on to the chassis

coylemj

irishfire wrote: »

..... when the new CVRT regulations were introduced by the RSA a few years back, many older trailers had to have their registration numbers indelibly marked on the chassis at a certain height, which meant either stamping out the reg with a punch or using a weld line to mark the reg number on to the chassis

What was a trailer owner supposed to do when he changed car or jeep?

What if he wanted to lend the trailer to someone?

What if he was a smalltime horse trainer, owned several horse boxes (trailers) and had several jeeps and vans capable of drawing any one of them?

0lddog

@CiniO ( an aside ) I understand that a number of Renault cars have their VIN numbers on stickers & plates riveted to the car and not engraved on the structure of the car. NCT are sending owners to Gardai to get certified ( bet the Gardai are delighted ).

So a suplementary question to yours might be : If owners of these cars got VIN number engraved on car in advance of NCT would this preempt the trip to Gardai ?

Victor

coylemj wrote: »

What was a trailer owner supposed to do when he changed car or jeep?

What if he wanted to lend the trailer to someone?

What if he was a smalltime horse trainer, owned several horse boxes (trailers) and had several jeeps and vans capable of drawing any one of them?

I understand trailers get their own registration numbers in a different series to motor vehicles.

CiniO

coylemj wrote: »

What was a trailer owner supposed to do when he changed car or jeep?

What if he wanted to lend the trailer to someone?

What if he was a smalltime horse trainer, owned several horse boxes (trailers) and had several jeeps and vans capable of drawing any one of them?

As irishfire mentioned CVRT I'm assuming he meant large HGV trailers which are due CVRT tests and do have their own registration number issued. (however not used on Irish roads).

It's not the same thing as stamping VIN though, however I'm curious about stamping/engraving reg number on a trailer - didn't know they were obliged to do that.