Dublin City Council disgrace again

blanch152

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2019/0923/1077753-dublin-city-tax/

"Dublin city councillors have again voted to reduce the annual local property tax by 15% - the maximum amount allowable."

At a time when we are beginning to get to grips with the housing crisis, and councils could do with as much money as possible to address it, our idiotic councillors refuse available money.

Have a look at who voted which way:

"Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Sinn Féin, People Before Profit and members of the Independent group voted for the reduction while Labour, Social Democrats and Greens voted to keep it at its basis rate. "

Ok, so Fianna Fail do the populist thing, what can be expected, Fine Gael favour property owners, but what reason is there for Sinn Fein and People before Profit to vote to reduce a tax on wealth? Unbelievable from so-called socialist parties.

Fair play to the Greens, Social Democrats and Labour for upholding true socialist principles and trying to ensure that those who own property pay for those who can't.

Kermit.de.frog

They also voted to limit the number of hotels that can be built despite a chronic shortage of hotel rooms.

The council management said they would not implement this because the councillors are bat **** crazy with that vote bascially.

Mannix Flynn, said that some councillors were looking after friends.

Independent councillor Mannix Flynn suggested a motion had been introduced to facilitate the ‘commercial friends’ of some councillors but he later withdrew the comment.

These are the people running the city...

sabat

DCC is a black hole of incompetence, graft and squandered money so fair play to Fianna Fail for taking some of that away from them.

Eric Cartman

finally, somebody actually reducing tax here.

Idbatterim

Giving those morons the choice of three breakfast cereals would be giving them too much decision making. Should never have been given rh power to set rates themselves. What a surprise that they go for the lowest possible as a vote winner ? How could that ever have been foreseen? Morons !

blanch152

sabat wrote: »

DCC is a black hole of incompetence, graft and squandered money so fair play to Fianna Fail for taking some of that away from them.

The money should be use for social housing, a disgrace once again from the council.

Kermit.de.frog

Eric Cartman wrote: »

finally, somebody actually reducing tax here.

But then you'll complain about lack of services, un-emptied bins, potholes etc...

This is populism, plain and simple.

It's services that suffer after they have bought your vote one way or another.

bobbysands81

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But then you'll complain about lack of services, un-emptied bins, potholes etc...

This is populism, plain and simple.

It's services that suffer after they have bought your vote one way or another.

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

sabat

blanch152 wrote: »

The money should be use for social housing, a disgrace once again from the council.

They could have not sold off most of the (our) housing stock too. The more money you give them, the more ways they'll find to piss it away.

jam_mac_jam

Hilarious, socalists voting to reduce property tax. People before profit indeed.

blanch152

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

This isn't taxation of income, it is taxation of wealth, such as property. A socialist ideal.

Kermit.de.frog

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Hilarious, socalists voting to reduce property tax. People before profit indeed.

They aren't socialists.

They are mindless populists who appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Kermit.de.frog

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

Tax companies enough and they won't be there to tax.

That's the reality of the situation.

We depend on foreign companies. They are not here for the weather.

We might not like it but that's just the way it is.

bobbysands81

blanch152 wrote: »

This isn't taxation of income, it is taxation of wealth, such as property. A socialist ideal.

If we’re going to start taxing wealth then let’s do it properly. We won’t though.

rob316

It's gone up 5% in cork

blanch152

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If we’re going to start taxing wealth then let’s do it properly. We won’t though.

This tax is a start.

bobbysands81

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Tax companies enough and they won't be there to tax.

That's the reality of the situation.

We depend on foreign companies. They are not here for the weather.

We might not like it but that's just the way it is.

I know exactly why foreign companies are here...

If we up our corporation tax the huge companies will still be coming here. They don’t pat their fair share, they should.

bobbysands81

blanch152 wrote: »

This tax is a start.

I’d start elsewhere.

jam_mac_jam

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Hilarious, socalists voting to reduce property tax. People before profit indeed.

They aren't socialists.

They are mindless populists who appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Exactly

Spanish Eyes

A good chunk of Dublin’s LPT is re distributed to low yielding counties. So I’m happy with the reduction.

Thank you.

Kermit.de.frog

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If we up our corporation tax the huge companies will still be coming here.

That's not the view of the former head of Intel in Ireland.

He said when they first arrived 30 years a go there was 9 reasons to be here.

Now there is only one - corporation tax.

We priced ourselves out of the global market during the boom.

All that makes us relevant and investable now is that one reason and if it changes they will leave and then the country faces a much bigger crisis because we have no indigenous industrial base to fall back on.

I wish like you that it would be possible to be all moral and high minded about this.

It isn't unfortunately.

Jeff2

Sure some DCC tenants can't pay rent online while paying other bill online and only in post office, yet they complain rent is not paid.

Maybe off topic but still if they want to make it easier to pay them they should sort it out.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

It's gone up 5% in cork

Saying that though the city bounds was recently expanded so the county are facing a large shortfall in tax revenue so have to put it up.

Turtyturd

Beginning to get to grips with the housing crisis?

BDI

Is anybody who works hard to pay for their house now suddenly wealthy and deserving to be taxed for it?

Fair enough if you have 2 or more houses but come on now, wealth tax?

Perhaps they should get the arrears from rent under control first.

As per their financial statement for 2018 there were arrears of 27 million 830 thousand 725 euro. An increase of 1.8 million from the beginning of the year.
https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/YourCouncil/AbouttheCouncil/CouncilSpendingRevenue/Documents/Full%20Unaudited%20Accounts%202018.pdf Appendix 7 page 45.

Now I realise that they’ll never get anywhere near that amount back but there’s no way they should be letting it increase year on year.

Jeff2

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Perhaps they should get the arrears from rent under control first.

As per their financial statement for 2018 there were arrears of 27 million 830 thousand 725 euro. An increase of 1.8 million from the beginning of the year.
https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/content/YourCouncil/AbouttheCouncil/CouncilSpendingRevenue/Documents/Full%20Unaudited%20Accounts%202018.pdf Appendix 7 page 45.

Now I realise that they’ll never get anywhere near that amount back but there’s no way they should be letting it increase year on year.

They should make it easier to pay online for more people.

Jeff2

Jeff2 wrote: »

They should make it easier to pay online for more people.

I just googled paying them online and got to the payment portal https://ip.e-paycapita.com/AIP/itemSelectionPage.do?link=showItemSelectionPage&siteId=110&languageCode=EN&source=AIP

Is it not as easy as that?

holliehobbie

Most people in Dublin City are near a post office though. And as I have to pay nearly three times the amount of LPT my sister is paying 50 miles away in a bigger house, 'm delighted it's going down.

Jeff2

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I just googled paying them online and got to the payment portal https://ip.e-paycapita.com/AIP/itemSelectionPage.do?link=showItemSelectionPage&siteId=110&languageCode=EN&source=AIP

Is it not as easy as that?

No not for all and also there's a way to pay through an post online but they couldn't confirm that works either.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

This isn't taxation of income, it is taxation of wealth, such as property. A socialist ideal.

I know this one was done to death during the LPT/HHC introduction, but calling the taxation of the home you live in, paid tax on everything within it, the materials and labour used to build it, and the ongoing costs to run and maintain it, a tax on wealth is far fetched - especially as many of these homes are in negative equity.

Fair enough if you have several homes, but the single home owner who is slogging his guts out to get by month to month running a home most certainly doesn't view lpt as a wealth tax.

Apart from anything else, a sizeable amount of LPT from previous years (along with motor tax) was used to bring us the massive white elephant that is Irish Water, another clusterfcuk.

I don't know why I'm even bothering making this post though, this has all been thrashed out before already.

heebusjeebus

This is needed as when the recalculation of the property price is done (probably after the next election) households in Dublin will see a huge increase in the LPT charge.
We're still working off 2013 property prices.

Boggles

heebusjeebus wrote: »

This is needed as when the recalculation of the property price is done (probably after the next election) households in Dublin will see a huge increase in the LPT charge.
We're still working off 2013 property prices.

Was just thinking that actually.

rivegauche

This is the Council which decided to retain the toll on the road which allows those who do not need to visit the city centre to bypass the city centre.
So it should comes as no surprise that they would reduce a wealth tax which is working as designed to tax the wealthy fairly.
Wealthy people invest in houses as it is an efficient means of tax avoidance.
It happens the world over. My neighbour lives in his house, his wife lives in her house on the far side of the river. Not actually divorced or separated. This isn't some sort of Sartre/Bauvoir arrangement.

Annasopra

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

Its not really that high. I am very happy that Wicklow County Council put the lpt up 15% and are funding a number of projects with it. I think its great that my tax funds better public public services. This populist drivel that you can have low personal taxation and high quality public services needs to be challenged.

lola85

Great how people paying a few euro a week if they feel up to it in a new 3 bed given to them by the council don’t have to pay property tax but get all the benefits as the people who have to pay full whack and pay a property tax.

A fair society.

Eric Cartman

lola85 wrote: »

Great how people paying 40 a week in a new 3 bed given to them by the council don’t have to pay property tax but get all the benefits as the people who have to pay full whack and pay a property tax.

A fair society.

and you'll likely find that more of that LPT money goes into services that specifically are used by those same people rather than the ones paying.

Hal3000

Only thing DCC are good at is driving up on pathways to change bins. That’s it. Oh sorry no, I forgot. Sitting in vans. They’d win awards for that.

Geuze

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough. Taxation of companies is not.

Only people pay tax.

If you are calling for higher corporation tax, then this will be passed on as follows:

1. higher prices for customers
2.less pay rises for staff
3. less profits/dividends for shareholders.


People calling for higher CT should be specific which of 1, 2 or 3 they want.

Geuze

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Personal taxation is high enough.

Effective income tax rate are about average in Ireland.

Geuze

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

A good chunk of Dublin’s LPT is re distributed to low yielding counties. So I’m happy with the reduction.

Thank you.

20% of every counties LPT is put aside into a fund for redistribution to weaker councils,

Roger Hassenforder

All the usual "someone else should be paying more tax than me"...

Geuze

BDI wrote: »

Is anybody who works hard to pay for their house now suddenly wealthy and deserving to be taxed for it?

Fair enough if you have 2 or more houses but come on now, wealth tax?

As the main form of wealth held by Irish people is housing, the LPT can be seen as a wealth tax.

Mongfinder General

Geuze wrote: »

Only people pay tax.

If you are calling for higher corporation tax, then this will be passed on as follows:

1. higher prices for customers
2.less pay rises for staff
3. less profits/dividends for shareholders.


People calling for higher CT should be specific which of 1, 2 or 3 they want.

4. They’ll **** off somewhere else and pay no tax

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I know this one was done to death during the LPT/HHC introduction, but calling the taxation of the home you live in, paid tax on everything within it, the materials and labour used to build it, and the ongoing costs to run and maintain it, a tax on wealth is far fetched - especially as many of these homes are in negative equity.

Fair enough if you have several homes, but the single home owner who is slogging his guts out to get by month to month running a home most certainly doesn't view lpt as a wealth tax.

Apart from anything else, a sizeable amount of LPT from previous years (along with motor tax) was used to bring us the massive white elephant that is Irish Water, another clusterfcuk.

I don't know why I'm even bothering making this post though, this has all been thrashed out before already.

Rubbish.

Those who are homeless and those who rent - who must make up 30% of the population - would be delighted to be wealthy enough to own their own house.

The LPT is a wealth tax, end of story.

padd b1975

Jeff2 wrote: »

They should make it easier to pay online for more people.

Yeah, that's what's causing the arrears.

weldoninhio

blanch152 wrote: »

The money should be use for social housing, a disgrace once again from the council.

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

Geuze

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

20% of all LPT from every council is put into a fund, to be distributed to weaker councils.

This is known as fiscal equalisation, and happens in most countries.

Geuze

padd b1975 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what's causing the arrears.

Much of the social housing rent arrears are caused by tenants not telling the council about an improvement in their incomes.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-from-our-cities-still-props-up-rest-of-country-38443184.html

How will they have a road to every one off house in Ireland if the city slickers are paying less property tax?

is_that_so

weldoninhio wrote: »

Doesn't quite a big % of the LPT get removed from Dublin and spent elsewhere.

As others have said they can retain 80% but DCC doesn't depend on it as much as in other LAs as they have huge commercial rates underpinning their budgets so this annual heroic fight for the people is really a bit of a charade.