The 2019 Football Championship review

Fr Tod Umptious

The original championship thread was closed for good reason before the final
The final thread was closed for good reason after the first game
The replay thread is quickly descending into closing territory as we speak, talk of shot clocks and the like

So I though we might need a review thread

So Dublin win 5 in a row, favorites all year, and they did the business so well done to them
But like we say in 2016 and 2017 they are not invincible, it is not inevitable that they will get everything right all the time.
They will have a few retirements I'm sure this year and lets see what the drive for 6 in a row will be like compared to that of 5, 5 was history making, 6 is uncharted waters

Kerry as expected are coming with good young talent, but I don't think it's a given that they will dominate in the future.
They still have to find a midfield, David Moran has been a stalwart there but he had a bad game yesterday and is not getting any younger.
There defense still has questions.
And the much vaunted forwards had some terrible wides in the two finals. We were told that they would not shoot as bad in the replay as they did if the first game, but they did.

Cork put it up to Kerry in the Munster final for a period but were never going to win it. They won u17 and u20 this year so there may be a future there for them, but it's a long time before those u17's and u20s are good enough for senior.
getting relegated to Div 3 will not help their cause in the shorter term.


Meath had a good season getting to the last 8 and put up some good performances for period during those games. Division 1 football will help them but I think their short term future is going to be at least one round in the back door as I don't think they are ready to beat Dublin just yet.

Donegal really have to be kicking themselves, two years in a row Ulster champs and two years in a row losing on the last day of the super 8 to get knocked out.
They will really have to get it together next year.
Tyrone did better than them once again but from a much easier group where they had to dispose of Cork and Roscommon and do as they wished v Dublin
They had a good chance of getting to the final but I imagine I'd be writing this post two weeks earlier had they done so.

Roscommon really has a good year, beat Mayo away, beat Galway away, beat Cork away. Now I know the latter was a dead rubber but had they been able to get something out of the Tyrone game ta home they would have had a real good chance of a SF spot, and it would have had the Tyrone v Dublin game meaning something,

Galway had a horror year really. The managed to turn a 7 point HT lead v Tyrone into a 7 point loss and thus missed the chance to play in a league final that did not include Dublin
They then went a dropped a 5 point HT lead v Roscommon and lost the Connacht final
Then Mayo beat them in Limerick for the first time in 8 games or something.
Many Galway fans will be delighted that Walsh as finished up, but they need someone really to step in up if they are going to call themselves serious contenders

Mayo had a better year than 2018 but they were always on the back foot and it was all of their own making.
Losing to Roscommon, missing a leveling point late on, meant that they were on the road week after week, getting injured, getting worn down
The wins v Galway and Donegal lifted them but they ere never going to challenge Dublin in 6 days and the good first half display was as much as this poster expected from them.
They have found some young talent in Ruane, McDonough and Carr but there are going to be more retirements and more new guys will ahem to be found.
A concern for Mayo is that they got beaten by 10 by both finalists.
Now one could talk about injuries and 6 day turnarounds, but all the eeked out victories, v lesser lights count for nothing if you are getting hammered by the big boys.

Next year is the last year of the Super 8 in it's current format. I can see it being kept but not in it's current structrure, I think it will be part of a wider change.
We are not going back to the "one and done" QF I don't think.

Leinster champs and Munster champs will be in one group, Connacht and Ulster in the other
Even though the cahmp v chmap game really needs to be taken out of Croke Park I can't see it happening next year as one of those games could be Dublin v Kerry.
What I can see happening is the turnaround time between the last Super 8 game and the SF being 13 or 14 days rather than 6 or 7, the latter is way too short.

Poor_old_gill

Dublin the best team and they deserve all the plaudits they are getting.

You're way too quick to right off Moran - he was the best midfielder on show in the first game and still outperformed Fenton yesterday so it's ludicrous to say that he is on the way out.

Ratings from literally 2 weeks ago:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0901/1073154-all-ireland-final-player-ratings-dublin-v-kerry/

Fr Tod Umptious

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Dublin the best team and they deserve all the plaudits they are getting.

You're way too quick to right off Moran - he was the best midfielder on show in the first game and still outperformed Fenton yesterday so it's ludicrous to say that he is on the way out.

Ratings from literally 2 weeks ago:
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2019/0901/1073154-all-ireland-final-player-ratings-dublin-v-kerry/

I'm not writing him off.

I'm just saying he had a bad game yesterday, he is getting older and Kerry are short on replacements.

Kumejima

Anyone have the final tally on championship top scorer?
Seems to me that its Sean O Shea on 1-63 ahead of Cathal McShane on 3-49. Anyone got the official source?
How this kid isn't nailed on for young player of the year instead of Clifford I cannot understand.

Seadin

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

You're way too quick to right off Moran - he was the best midfielder on show in the first game and still outperformed Fenton yesterday so it's ludicrous to say that he is on the way out.

He caused the goal and kicked 2 bad wides. Thats enough to ruin any team.

Poor_old_gill

Seadin wrote: »

He caused the goal and kicked 2 bad wides. Thats enough to ruin any team.

He didn’t cause the goal- merchan still had to run 60 yards. Fenton kicked minimum of one horrendous wide yesterday- if we are talking about midfielders

Tell me how

Felt the Super 8's have failed to excite both of the years they have been played. There has been a sense of inevitability about most games in them with only the odd one like Mayo/Donegal having a sense of excitement about them.

Unfortunately, there is still too wide a gap between many teams and the rest which leads to games playing out exactly as expected if not being near whitewash outcomes.

Agree that the group format, (or some version) will likely stay but personally, I'm not convinced.

C__MC

Remember the leinster final
Dublin hammered meath and it was considered a battling Meath performance
LOL

Dublin had equally tougher games in 2018
Tyrone away
Galway in the semi
Tyrone in the first 20

Bar from the 55th minute to 64minute in the drawn game, where Dublin ever in trouble?

Kerry done well but there s and c is years off yet
They wilted after 45 yesterday?

Tell me how

C__MC wrote: »

Remember the leinster final
Dublin hammered meath and it was considered a battling Meath performance
LOL

Dublin had equally tougher games in 2018
Tyrone away
Galway in the semi
Tyrone in the first 20

Bar from the 55th minute to 64minute in the drawn game, where Dublin ever in trouble?

Kerry done well but there s and c is years off yet
They wilted after 45 yesterday?

Every team wants to beat Dublin, not suggesting there are games that teams are happy to lose but I think most teams aim to bring their A game to those matches.

They could very easily have lost at least two of their 5 recent finals (which they didn't) but I think they are at best 2:1 for next years final whereas this year they were strong odds on.

Could actually see them getting stung in Super 8's if they were in a particularly strong group.

rossie1977

Kumejima wrote: »

Anyone have the final tally on championship top scorer?
Seems to me that its Sean O Shea on 1-63 ahead of Cathal McShane on 3-49. Anyone got the official source?
How this kid isn't nailed on for young player of the year instead of Clifford I cannot understand.

https://billhillwicklow.com/list/all-ireland-senior-football-championship-top-scorers-table-2019/

ClanofLams

Tell me how wrote: »

Every team wants to beat Dublin, not suggesting there are games that teams are happy to lose but I think most teams aim to bring their A game to those matches.

They could very easily have lost at least two of their 5 recent finals (which they didn't) but I think they are at best 2:1 for next years final whereas this year they were strong odds on.

Could actually see them getting stung in Super 8's if they were in a particularly strong group.

They are 4-7 to win next year with the bookmakers. They are a shorter price (11-4) to win the next three than Kerry were to win yesterday (7-2).

Kerry have a very talented team and they will likely win one at some stage but they’re a long ways off the depth Dublin have.

Don’t think there’s anyone close to those two.

Expect Mayo to be in transition for a bit, they will still be competitive generally but can’t see them being back in an All Ireland final for a few years.

Donegal were maybe a bit unlucky with injuries but they still seem very reliant on Michael Murphy who isn’t getting any younger.

Galway have some talented footballers but I am a long way from being convinced that they could be a genuine threat.

Tyrone are very average, a system that makes them difficult but a youthful Kerry ultimately put them away with relative ease and Dublin could have beaten them by 15 last year.

sk9

rossie1977 wrote: »

https://billhillwicklow.com/list/all-ireland-senior-football-championship-top-scorers-table-2019/

Cormac Costello at 7 and not even a starter in either final

Tell me how

ClanofLams wrote: »

They are 4-7 to win next year with the bookmakers. They are a shorter price (11-4) to win the next three than Kerry were to win yesterday (7-2).

Kerry have a very talented team and they will likely win one at some stage but they’re a long ways off the depth Dublin have.

Don’t think there’s anyone close to those two.

Expect Mayo to be in transition for a bit, they will still be competitive generally but can’t see them being back in an All Ireland final for a few years.

Donegal were maybe a bit unlucky with injuries but they still seem very reliant on Michael Murphy who isn’t getting any younger.

Galway have some talented footballers but I am a long way from being convinced that they could be a genuine threat.

Tyrone are very average, a system that makes them difficult but a youthful Kerry ultimately put them away with relative ease and Dublin could have beaten them by 15 last year.

I disagree with the odds but can understand them being such on the day after winning a 5th.

I do agree on the absence of what you would think are teams to stand a good chance of beating them right now but it's not unreasonable to think that if things clicked for Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and even Cork now that they could get very close.

Galway are perennially frustrating. They can look so good at times and with underage teams and then they just disappoint at senior level and act like it's no big deal.

Seadin

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

He didn’t cause the goal- merchan still had to run 60 yards. Fenton kicked minimum of one horrendous wide yesterday- if we are talking about midfielders

He palmed the ball down to merchan who took off like a motorbike and pretty much finished the game for Kerry with that goal. Kerry could not close the gap after that.

Hawkeye9212

Weepsie wrote: »

Still think they should be scrapping Provincials. Play them out early in the year in place of some of those pre league tournaments.

League as is with promotion and relegation.

All Ireland should adopt Round Robin style then knock out. 8 groups of 4. Everyone's gets a home match, away and a neutral that's in one of the big stadia. Should do away with the lads waiting 4 weeks for a game and back door system. Open draw too could throw up lopsided groups but be great entertainment.

Or at least find a middle ground. The minor championship has a group stage for the provincial championships except Ulster. Dublin will still dominate in Leinster but at the other teams will get more games in the summer. The pundits will love it.

grbear

I'm just going to do a quickish review focusing on Galway.

We went in to 2019 cautiously optimistic as 2018 had been a good year overall. Even though people were worried that the team had gone as far as it could playing a safety first style of football there was still hope that adding Molloy and McDaid to the half back line would make Galway more dangerous offensively while Silke being available should make them better at the back. Then the injury news started filtering through and by the time the league was about to kick off hopes of reaching the final again had been replaced by fears of relegation with the opening round fixture against Cavan looking a do or die fixture. A home win raised spirits which were then crushed by a Dublin a week later in a match resulting in even more additions to the sick list.

After that the league was mostly positive with Antaine O Laoi and John Daly being impressive newcomers while the return of Danny Cummins helped make up for Damien Comers continued absence. It culminated with a very impressive first half display against Tyrone which left the team on the verge of an unlikely return the league final. What followed was septic. One of the worst halves we witnessed under Walsh saw Tyrone run out easy winners in the end. Still the squad looked deeper and we'd be much improved for the championship once those injuries cleared up....

Two workmanlike performances by patched together lineups saw Galway back in a Connacht final against a Roscommon side learning how to defend properly with Anthony Cunningham at the helm while Cox added attacking power. At half time things were looking good again as Galway eased their way into a five point half time lead and in control of the match. Another second half from hell followed and the outnumbered Galway fans left our home patch thoroughly disillusioned.

Then we finished the year by losing to Mayo. No need to say more. :mad:

Positives
-Retaining Division 1 status with so many players missing
-Beating Mayo on a miserable night in the league
-Peter Cooke. His first half against Mayo in Limerick was top drawer stuff
-Antaine O Laoi and John Dalys emergence during the league

Negatives
-The second half collapses against Roscommon and Tyrone.
-The end of our winning streak against Mayo
-The messing with goalies
-Sean Andy went back a lot this year
-Never seeing our best 15 on the pitch at full fitness. People might argue about what the best 15 might be but theres no doubt we never saw Galway at 100% this year.
-The pitiful crowds

Overall Rating
D purely based on avoiding relegation

Bonniedog

I thought Galway were getting places. That like other teams who made it into top tier, including Dublin, that they'd sorted out defensive issues and become difficult to beat, and were ready to take another step up.

Hasn't worked, and bit too much of blaming the manager who might have been given another year. Mayo game was interesting as it was in the balance, and might have changed their year.

Avoiding the drop is crucial as Division On will be really tight next year. Meath back in the mix and likely championship winners sussing one another out.

Edgware

Tell me how wrote: »

I disagree with the odds but can understand them being such on the day after winning a 5th.

I do agree on the absence of what you would think are teams to stand a good chance of beating them right now but it's not unreasonable to think that if things clicked for Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and even Cork now that they could get very close.

Galway are perennially frustrating. They can look so good at times and with underage teams and then they just disappoint at senior level and act like it's no big deal.


Galway, Mayo, Meath, Kildare, Cork, Kerry, Tyrone Armagh Donegal all have the financial backing home and abroad to challenge Dublin.
However the present Dublin lads have their heads screwed on and no media ****e like they had before with Ray Cosgrave dressed as James Bond etc.

Tell me how

Edgware wrote: »

Galway, Mayo, Meath, Kildare, Cork, Kerry, Tyrone Armagh Donegal all have the financial backing home and abroad to challenge Dublin.
However the present Dublin lads have their heads screwed on and no media ****e like they had before with Ray Cosgrave dressed as James Bond etc.

I'm not sure if financial backing alone is sufficient. The Dubs didn't just appear overnight as a best in class outfit, they had ramped it up over several years before they reached the top level they now occupy.

Also, I know Mayo still have issues with lads based in Dublin and so too some of the other counties which impact on their training.

The sheer numbers available to Dublin should always mean that they have an All Ireland capable squad even if they do not get their every year. Unfortunately, not the case in all the other counties.

Fan of Netflix

I thought it poor enough overall and very predictable. The League is more enjoyable. Too much handpassing once again. Super 8s have to go. Just too many games that aren't knockout with that extra intensity. Over fussy referees blowing every 5 seconds. Club football is almost a different sport.

Hammer Archer

From Meath's perspective, it was a good championship which followed an excellent league campaign. At the start of the season, there were three aims for us: promotion in the league, making a Leinster final and making the super 8s. All three were achieved. While we didn't take any big scalps, the only teams to beat us in 2019 were Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Donegal (x 3).

The first game against Offaly was a bit too close for comfort but we easily accounted for Carlow and Laois. In the Dublin game, our defence was excellent which made it all the more frustrating that our forwards had a complete no-show. Regardless, pretty much every Meath fan had the Dublin game written off before the ball was even thrown in. The main thing was the round 4 game. No Leinster final loser had won their next qualifying game since Kildare in 2009. We probably got the easiest draw we could have in drawing Clare, but they are a pretty decent team, that's why I didn't care how we won.

In the super 8s themselves, all three games were remarkably similar. Against Donegal and Mayo, we were ahead well into the second half before the wheels came off in the last 10 - 15 minutes and we ended up on the end of a rather harsh scoreline, in my opinion. Against Kerry, we were there or thereabouts but, again, Kerry showed their class in the end. Not sure if our collapses were physical or mental or a bit of both but that'll definitely need to be addressed before next season.

Overall, a good season for us which resulted in McEntee deservedly getting a new 3 year term. Colm Nally being brought in as a coach was widely regarded as being one of the main reasons behind our improvement. Our defence is as good as it has been for a long time and I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of Keogan or McGill got themselves an All Star nomination. Still a lot of issues to be worked on for next season. Our goalkeeper has been an issue for a number of years now and we would often give away several scores each game thanks to poor kickouts. That hasn't changed and we'll be crucified in division 1 next season if it continues. Our midfield is poor as well. Menton has been good but finding a partner for him has proven impossible.

So a bit of optimism from Meath fans after this season. The unfortunate thing is that regardless of how much we realistically improve over the next few seasons, we're not getting anywhere close to Dublin, and therefore not getting anywhere close to silverware.

Mokuba

Super 8's are a failed concept. Just like Leinster has turned into a queue of teams awaiting their hammering by Dublin, the Super 8's is the same thing now.

It also throws up meaningless games and for what? So you can see a Mayo v Donegal game that might have been played anyway under the old format?

I do laugh when people try to say there are weaknesses with Dublin. Try to convince themselves that maybe next year it'll be competitive. When Dublin had 15 men on the pitch they were far superior to Kerry.

10 in a row up next. Dublin are too far ahead and have their infrastructure in place from the crazy funding.

Biggest embarrassment of the whole thing is the refereeing. 0 consistency. Every referee has a dramatically different interpretation to the next.

TrueGael

Galway, Mayo, Meath, Kildare, Cork, Kerry, Tyrone Armagh Donegal all have the financial backing home and abroad to challenge Dublin.

No matter how many times this rameis is thrown out there , it isn't going to fool anybody

Fan of Netflix

Armagh are not a team I would associate with big financial backing.

SJW Lover

TrueGael wrote: »

No matter how many times this rameis is thrown out there , it isn't going to fool anybody

Almost choked on my tea reading that. The delusion.

Always_Running

Teams that will be happy with their years work.

Dublin obviously, at a good consistent level and never once dropped their standard over the last 5 years.

Kerry once they will get over the disappointment of losing All Ireland they should be well pleased with the progress they made from last years quarter final exit

Teams that should be pleased enough

Mayo, recovered well for unexpected Connacht exit to reach AI semi final a big improvement from last years round 3 exit to Kildare

Roscommon, improvement from 2018, won Connacht beating Galway and Mayo away and won their first super 8 game or be it it was a dead rubber.

Meath, reached a Lenister final and were competitive in all 3 super 8 games for the first 50 minutes. Need to improve their bench options and S&C to progress further.


Teams left some what disappointed

Tyrone regressed this year
Donegal again didn't reach the last four when i'm sure it was their objective

Teams that was left very disappointed

Galway a big drop from reaching last years AI semi
Monaghan same as Galway, a big high then followed a big low
Kildare unable to build on last years quarter final place

Top 16 counties that don't know if they are coming or going.

Cavan,Fermanagh,Armagh,Cork,Tipp



Games of the year in no particular order.

Dublin v Kerry (Drawn All Ireland final)
Tyrone v Kerry
Cork v Tyrone
Kerry v Donegal
Mayo v Armagh
Armagh v Cavan (drawn game)
Down v Armagh
Kerry v Cork
Mayo v Roscommon
Longford v Kildare (drawn game)

Tell me how

^^^^^^

I'd say Cork would be very pleased with their year given where they started from and the upcoming underage teams.

seligehgit

Always_Running wrote: »

Teams that will be happy with their years work.

Dublin obviously, at a good consistent level and never once dropped their standard over the last 5 years.

Kerry once they will get over the disappointment of losing All Ireland they should be well pleased with the progress they made from last years quarter final exit

Teams that should be pleased enough

Mayo, recovered well for unexpected Connacht exit to reach AI semi final a big improvement from last years round 3 exit to Kildare

Roscommon, improvement from 2018, won Connacht beating Galway and Mayo away and won their first super 8 game or be it it was a dead rubber.

Meath, reached a Lenister final and were competitive in all 3 super 8 games for the first 50 minutes. Need to improve their bench options and S&C to progress further.


Teams left some what disappointed

Tyrone regressed this year
Donegal again didn't reach the last four when i'm sure it was their objective

Teams that was left very disappointed

Galway a big drop from reaching last years AI semi
Monaghan same as Galway, a big high then followed a big low
Kildare unable to build on last years quarter final place

Top 16 counties that don't know if they are coming or going.

Cavan,Fermanagh,Armagh,Cork,Tipp



Games of the year in no particular order.

Dublin v Kerry (Drawn All Ireland final)
Tyrone v Kerry
Cork v Tyrone
Kerry v Donegal
Mayo v Armagh
Armagh v Cavan (drawn game)
Down v Armagh
Kerry v Cork
Mayo v Roscommon
Longford v Kildare (drawn game)

Enjoyed

Mayo v Donegal

Mayo V Galway

Dublin v Cork

Bonniedog

A lot will depend on how Cork use their time in Division Three, They have to get promotion but within that parameter will have plenty of scope to try out new things. Bring in some of the younger fellas, Perfect place to hone an aggressive attacking strategy which seems to be where they are anyway. Watch that space I would suggest.

C__MC

seligehgit wrote: »

Enjoyed

Mayo v Donegal

Mayo V Galway

Dublin v Cork

I enjoyed cavan v armagh

seligehgit

Always_Running wrote: »

Teams that should be pleased enough

Mayo, recovered well for unexpected Connacht exit to reach AI semi final a big improvement from last years round 3 exit to Kildare

TBH it will be framed in my mind as a lost year.

Our inability to come through the front door when all and sundry knew of it's importance in an aging team was catastrophic.

We were condemned to be the modern day Sisyphus.

An onerous schedule and a crippling list of injuries in part as a consequence which inevitably caught up with us.

A potential crack at Dublin in the final was a real expectation at the start of the championship.

shockframe

If you consider the widespread moaning about the game pre season it was an excellent year in general and quite close to great.The most enjoyable since 2012 and the best since 2010.

First off the senior championship was better than it was the last 2 or 3 seasons.Leinster was a bit of a non event but the other provinces has some very good games. The qualifers had some terrific matches and the Super 8s was an improvement on last year.

Some of the goals like Carr and Murchan were jaw dropping.

The semi finals has dipped slightly from the highs of 2010-17 but Dublin and Mayo was a good occasion and Kerry-Tyrone was nowhere near as bad as people made it out to be.

The finals were a great advert for Football. Dublin-Mayo 2017 is still the best final in the modern era but the 2 games were as good as you could hope for.

It's when you factor in the last few weeks of the league (3 out of 4 decennt league finals to boot and a thrilling Division 1 finale) on top of exceptional minor/under 20 games Gaelic Football can be quite pleased with itself.The only disappointment was maybe the club final but even with that you could greatly admire the brilliance of Corofin.

Interesting how much of a good year it was given how bad other sports finals tended to be. Football had 4 out of 5 great finals over club, minor, under 20, senior league and champ. The hurling had no great final over its 5 majors, the NFL had one of its worst Superbowls and the Champions league final was one of the worst ever. Its amazing given how detractors of Football have always pointed to other sports as being far superior. They maybe should be looking a lot closer as to whats really going on.

I've enjoyed aspects of Hurling and Soccer but frankly its been Football's year.

PressRun

Bonniedog wrote: »

A lot will depend on how Cork use their time in Division Three, They have to get promotion but within that parameter will have plenty of scope to try out new things. Bring in some of the younger fellas, Perfect place to hone an aggressive attacking strategy which seems to be where they are anyway. Watch that space I would suggest.

Cork are football's biggest sleeping giant at the moment, imo. Loads of potential at underage level that just hasn't seemed to fully translate to senior as of yet, but if they funnel that talent through properly and don't lose them to others sports, travel, etc., and like you said, use their league time wisely, you get the feeling that some day they could come really good.


From a Mayo perspective, the league win was a pleasant surprise, but failing to win Connacht was the hammer blow to our championship hopes. We probably overachived in the end by getting to an AI semi-final, what with the litany of injuries we picked up throughout the year and the relentless schedule of games, but next year we really need to be focusing on the Connacht championship and trying to avoid the mental and physical fatigue that comes with the qualifiers. There are also a couple of positions - mainly full back and goalie - that need to be looked at over the winter. I think we can still be competitive next year if we have our **** together early on.

Bonniedog

No one from Donegal has said anything, but they must be disappointed. Thought they managed league very well, and looked very confident and assured in Ulster,

Group of death was bad for them. Did well against Kerry but any team including Dublin would have had to bring their best game to Castlebar when Mayo were fighting for their pride. Was one of the games of the year and I only heard it on radio!

I'd say Donegal if they regroup and keep McBrearty well, will still be contenders.

Not going to make any guess about Mayo, Still top three team, league champions and a few promising new faces. Was surprised Treacy didn't get run against Dublin in second half.

As Pressrun said, vital they win Connacht.

Always_Running

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^^^^

I'd say Cork would be very pleased with their year given where they started from and the upcoming underage teams.

Cork people i have no doubt will be very pleased with their underage success but their year at senior level wasn't a great one, they were relegated to Div 3 and only beat Limerick,Laois this summer.

seligehgit wrote: »

Enjoyed

Mayo v Donegal

Mayo V Galway

Dublin v Cork

Mayo v Donegal game i don't think lived up to the hype but the poor weather didn't help that contest. Dublin winning by 13 points ruined my memory of that game and apart from a 15 minute patch that was the worst a Kevin Walsh Galway team had performed v Mayo

Tell me how

Always_Running wrote: »

Cork people i have no doubt will be very pleased with their underage success but their year at senior level wasn't a great one, they were relegated to Div 3 and only beat Limerick,Laois this summer.

Speaking a few weeks ago to a Cork lad, he was pleased that they had given Kerry a game of it in Munster and even in their Super 8 against Dublin they didn't look bad in the first half by any stretch.

As another poster said, relegation to Div 3 might actually really help blood some younger players in a lesser division and if they gain promotion, 2020 will be off to a good start.

I think they are in a better position than Galway and Galway were in a Div 1 final last year.

Always_Running

Tell me how wrote: »

Speaking a few weeks ago to a Cork lad, he was pleased that they had given Kerry a game of it in Munster and even in their Super 8 against Dublin they didn't look bad in the first half by any stretch.

As another poster said, relegation to Div 3 might actually really help blood some younger players in a lesser division and if they gain promotion, 2020 will be off to a good start.

I think they are in a better position than Galway and Galway were in a Div 1 final last year.

Cork had good performances before in defeat (for example bringing Mayo to extra time) yet didn't build on them and deliver results. I also recall plenty saying relegation to Div 2 would help Cork and it would be only a short term stay yet they have allowed themselves to drop to Div 3.


Not sure how you reckon Cork are in a better position than Galway but maybe you can elaborate a little more?

shockframe

Always_Running wrote: »

Cork had good performances before in defeat (for example bringing Mayo to extra time) yet didn't build on them and deliver results. I also recall plenty saying relegation to Div 2 would help Cork and it would be only a short term stay yet they have allowed themselves to drop to Div 3.


Not sure how you reckon Cork are in a better position than Galway but maybe you can elaborate a little more?

A big difference now is that Cork looks to be a lot more organized than ever before.

A 5 year plan in action and also success at underage. Not to mention support at board level.

Still a bit to go but they have serious scope for development.

Tell me how

Always_Running wrote: »

Not sure how you reckon Cork are in a better position than Galway but maybe you can elaborate a little more?

That's why I picked Galway because of the similarities but whereas I think Cork came away from their championship games with largely renewed confidence, Galway came away with their heads low.

Galway now have to find a new manager with some rumours of discontent in the process from some in Galway.

Bonniedog

Any county that wins the two All Ireland underage competitions is in a good place.

What I like about them is they've gone away from the idea that man mountains were sufficient to win All Irelands, They were maybe ahead of the curve for a year or two in the physical stakes, but that moved on pretty quickly after 2010.

From Dublin perspective, they were the team that was seen more than even Kerry or Tyrone as the one we had to beat back then as a sort of marker of progress. And bear in mind that Cork 2010 were last team in a decade other than Donegal and Mayo to beat Dublin!

Mad, but true statistic.

Always_Running

shockframe wrote: »

A big difference now is that Cork looks to be a lot more organized than ever before.

A 5 year plan in action and also success at underage. Not to mention support at board level.

Still a bit to go but they have serious scope for development.

Organized at county board level or the team on the field of play? if the latter i still see big issues in defence,S&C and i'm not at all convinced Ronan McCarthy will be the right manager to deliver championship result against higher ranked teams.



Was no plan put in place before? its not like Cork hadn't underage success before, they won many recent Munster U21 titles a competition i regard a much higher standard than U20 and that underage success should have left enough of talent there to be doing a lot better than they have done at senior level recently.


Galway in comparison from their underage success have become a established Div 1 team and reached All Ireland semi final last year.

shockframe

Always_Running wrote: »

Organized at county board level or the team on the field of play? if the latter i still see big issues in defence,S&C and i'm not at all convinced Ronan McCarthy will be the right manager to deliver championship result against higher ranked teams.



Was no plan put in place before? its not like Cork hadn't underage success before, they won many recent Munster U21 titles a competition i regard a much higher standard than U20 and that underage success should have left enough of talent there to be doing a lot better than they have done at senior level recently.


Galway in comparison from their underage success have become a established Div 1 team and reached All Ireland semi final last year.

They have always been treated less favorably than the Hurlers. After Counihan left in 2013 the county board wanted a manager to facilitate dual players but the main candidate John Cleary wasn't willing to do so and walked away.

Even the 2010 management team was nothing like Cork's best selection team. None of them have achieved anything of note since. (aside from maybe Counihans work in the new plan).

it goes a long way to explaining why they lost their way against the likes of Mcguiness, Horan, Gavin setups to name but a few.

Plenty of writers flagged Cork's lack of any plan prior to Kevin O'Donovans arrival. Now they have a bit of structure and a feel good factor once again. The likes of Graham Canty is a major part of the new plan. He isn't someone who will just go through the motions.

Cork have been there or thereabouts since the late 80s. They have a favorable path to the last 12 most years and with the underage success they can match up to anyone in the years ahead.

Galway are equally capable of putting it up to most sides on their day too but don't have anything like the animalistic desire that Mayo have. Having won an All Ireland more recently probaby blunts the desire a bit I suppose. The Football team is like a call to arms to all Mayo folk. I don't get that vibe from Galway.