New Beef Producers Group Approved

kk.man

See the Dept has approved a new beef producers group from BP. Things are looking up.

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

See the Dept has approved a new beef producers group from BP. Things are looking up.

Why did they need to approve it when there's loads of them around the country.

kk.man

wrangler wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

See the Dept has approved a new beef producers group from BP. Things are looking up.

Why did they need to approve it when there's loads of them around the country.

Well I am finishing cattle a good while and I never heard of one.

epfff

wrangler wrote: »

kk.man wrote: »

See the Dept has approved a new beef producers group from BP. Things are looking up.

Why did they need to approve it when there's loads of them around the country.

I dont know of any either.
I am also struggling to see its major advantage.

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

Well I am finishing cattle a good while and I never heard of one.

They're around alright, longford was on the IFJ

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/strength-in-numbers-in-longford-181428.

athenry mart had something going too but farmers weren't supporting it last I heard and what about all the Lamb groups.
Unfortunately I think there's more of a cartel against groups than individuals

Base price

A lot of purchasing groups would also operate as a producer group for selling stock to factories.

Cavanjack

Do you think the factories will deal with beef plan after all this?

epfff

Cavanjack wrote: »

Do you think the factories will deal with beef plan after all this?

I thought all the old beef processors had pulled out of Ireland.
So the new ones will be starting with a clean sheet

But seriously.
Yep
They will deal with anyone that they can make money off
Keep enemies closer
Dont poke a bear
And im sure there are many more

Panch18

epfff wrote: »

I thought all the old beef processors had pulled out of Ireland.
So the new ones will be starting with a clean sheet

But seriously.
Yep
They will deal with anyone that they can make money off
Keep enemies closer
Dont poke a bear
And im sure there are many more

Why would the factories buy cattle from the beef plan group?

epfff

Panch18 wrote: »

epfff wrote: »

I thought all the old beef processors had pulled out of Ireland.
So the new ones will be starting with a clean sheet

But seriously.
Yep
They will deal with anyone that they can make money off
Keep enemies closer
Dont poke a bear
And im sure there are many more

Why would the factories buy cattle from the beef plan group?

Going to throw a wild guess and say to make money by selling it on after adding some value.

Panch18

epfff wrote: »

Going to throw a wild guess and say to make money by selling it on after adding some value.

Why would they support the beef plan producer group when they could just buy from every farmer who isn’t part of the group?? They’re not exactly short of cattle in case you haven’t noticed

Robson99

Panch18 wrote: »

Why would they support the beef plan producer group when they could just buy from every farmer who isn’t part of the group?? They’re not exactly short of cattle in case you haven’t noticed

I think they are short. 2 weeks is about all they have in front of them

Never wrestle with pigs

Panch18 wrote: »

Why would they support the beef plan producer group when they could just buy from every farmer who isn’t part of the group?? They’re not exactly short of cattle in case you haven’t noticed

Mod Snip they are very short on cattle incase you haven't noticed. They cleaned out all their feedlots after the last strike and are buying big stores now to put back in. There is a reduction in the availability of finished stock at the moment anyway, not as many out there as they thought.

Panch18

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

they are very short on cattle incase you haven't noticed. They cleaned out all their feedlots after the last strike and are buying big stores now to put back in. There is a reduction in the availability of finished stock at the moment anyway, not as many out there as they thought.

God you guys are all kinds of deluded

Why the **** would they pay a producer group more for cattle when the cattle are there already, piling up waiting to be killed. Particularly to buy from a group that has created problems for them

Secondly how the **** do you know what the factories thought regarding the amount of stock in the country

The simple fact is that you and the beef plan in general have no clue really about what’s going on in the beef industry. This is blatantly obvious because these strikes started out without a plan, came up with some 13 point bull**** half way through, none of which is going to make a blind bit of difference to price, and then have formed several splinter groups which all seem to have the same “ideas”. And I use that word very lightly let me tell you

The truth is that this bull**** has been going on for what 5 weeks now and absolutely **** all has been achieved, absolutely nothing

And nothing will be achieved because the beef plan is like a junior B hurling team, lots of big talk and we’ll fight them all attitude but absolutely nothing in the way of skills to get it across the line or plan on how to do it.

wrangler

Panch18 wrote: »

God you guys are all kinds of deluded

Why the **** would they pay a producer group more for cattle when the cattle are there already, piling up waiting to be killed. Particularly to buy from a group that has created problems for them

Secondly how the **** do you know what the factories thought regarding the amount of stock in the country

The simple fact is that you and the beef plan in general have no clue really about what’s going on in the beef industry. This is blatantly obvious because these strikes started out without a plan, came up with some 13 point bull**** half way through, none of which is going to make a blind bit of difference to price, and then have formed several splinter groups which all seem to have the same “ideas”. And I use that word very lightly let me tell you

The truth is that this bull**** has been going on for what 5 weeks now and absolutely **** all has been achieved, absolutely nothing

And nothing will be achieved because the beef plan is like a junior B hurling team, lots of big talk and we’ll fight them all attitude but absolutely nothing in the way of skills to get it across the line or plan on how to do it.

A lot are saying now that selling at a bad price isn't as bad as not being able to sell.
I said at the start that factories would close down rather than yield to bullying and here we are

wrangler

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

they are very short on cattle incase you haven't noticed. They cleaned out all their feedlots after the last strike and are buying big stores now to put back in. There is a reduction in the availability of finished stock at the moment anyway, not as many out there as they thought.

I'd have half the posters here labelled a scab (yourself included probably) if badmouthing an organisation for organising a protest was a requirement.
It's ironic what's going on here now........ a joke even

Never wrestle with pigs

wrangler wrote: »

I'd have half the posters here labelled a scab (yourself included probably) if badmouthing an organisation for organising a protest was a requirement.
It's ironic what's going on here now........ a joke even

No driving past a picket I call a scab. Bad mouthing an organisation is just someone's opinion.

Panch18

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

No driving past a picket I call a scab. Bad mouthing an organisation is just someone's opinion.

You calling me a scab just highlights this whole picket thing in a nutshell

You think that just because I disagree with it that I have passed a picket because that suits your narrative

But the fact is that I have never passed a picket, never

But as is the common theme with the protesters they get an idea into their head so it must be true

You have no clue on the facts, the whole beef plan has no clue on the industry as a whole, you have no clue who I am so you can’t possibly call me a scab based on any kind of fact. But then again you guys don’t deal in facts or reality

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Why did they need to approve it when there's loads of them around the country.

Because of there planed scale and they are generic producer groups in that they will be maketing ordinary cattle rather than attempting to market a branded product.

Panch18 wrote: »

Why would the factories buy cattle from the beef plan group?

Because if they do not it will be deemed anti competitive

Panch18 wrote: »

God you guys are all kinds of deluded

Why the **** would they pay a producer group more for cattle when the cattle are there already, piling up waiting to be killed. Particularly to buy from a group that has created problems for them

Secondly how the **** do you know what the factories thought regarding the amount of stock in the country

The simple fact is that you and the beef plan in general have no clue really about what’s going on in the beef industry. This is blatantly obvious because these strikes started out without a plan, came up with some 13 point bull**** half way through, none of which is going to make a blind bit of difference to price, and then have formed several splinter groups which all seem to have the same “ideas”. And I use that word very lightly let me tell you

The truth is that this bull**** has been going on for what 5 weeks now and absolutely **** all has been achieved, absolutely nothing

And nothing will be achieved because the beef plan is like a junior B hurling team, lots of big talk and we’ll fight them all attitude but absolutely nothing in the way of skills to get it across the line or plan on how to do it.

This is a long term project not a short term fix. I have advocated this as part of the solution for the last 2-3 years since EU legislation allowed for such large producer groups. The Eu have legislated such PG's to try to counterbalance processor scale.

First off Processors will have to negotiate with them if they do not then it will be deemed anti competitive. As well if the fail to negotiate in good faith and low ball prices to this producer group then again the CCPC will be all over them. It will alos shine a light on things like processor owed feedlots, contracted feedlots and special pricing arrangements that went on for the last 3- months. By the way some of this has happened already and those poor finishers are only getting 5-10c/kg more than lads not in the loop.

You seem to be an angry young/old man. Did you not send any of the 180 cattle for slaughter in the window's available when there was no strike or are you seeing the reality that store prices are not collapsing as much as you would like. If I remember right from a few years ago you also finished 180 cattle out of your shed over the winter. Like I have always said this is a war not a battle. It may take 6-12 months to sort it a case of hunker down ango with the flow.

By the way the processors are under pressure as well. Already it seems they have been told f@@koff out of the courts. As well they have been told if they do not come to the table a beef industry regulator will be appointed. They have a lot to lose if they do not cop on.

As an aside last year ABP made 170 million profit. That is in the region of 270-300/head margin on slaughtered cattle. Up until the fire at a major beef packer unit in the US where over 10% od the national capacity was taken out Beef packers operated at a margin of 50-150 US$/head. It has climbed because of the fire to nearly 400 the US competition authority is all over it yet

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

By the way the processors are under pressure as well. Already it seems they have been told f@@koff out of the courts. As well they have been told if they do not come to the table a beef industry regulator will be appointed. They have a lot to lose if they do not cop on.

As an aside last year ABP made 170 million profit. That is in the region of 270-300/head margin on slaughtered cattle. Up until the fire at a major beef packer unit in the US where over 10% od the national capacity was taken out Beef packers operated at a margin of 50-150 US$/head. It has climbed because of the fire to nearly 400 the US competition authority is all over it yet

What can a regulator do? It can't force factories to buy stock. They'll be happy to run factories at below capacity than give up their margin. The last few weeks clearly shows that.


Larry's €170 million profit doesn't just relate to Irish beef. By the time his European factories + pork, lamb and property dealings etc are all taken into account. I'd say a fair debt would be made in that 300/head you mention. Irish beef is probably 30ish % of his total turnover of 3 billion.

DaDerv

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What can a regulator do? It can't force factories to buy stock. They'll be happy to run factories at below capacity than give up their margin. The last few weeks clearly shows that.


Larry's €170 million profit doesn't just relate to Irish beef. By the time his European factories + pork, lamb and property dealings etc are all taken into account. I'd say a fair debt would be made in that 300/head you mention. Irish beef is probably 30ish % of his total turnover of 3 billion.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367

Do you think Larry runs everything through the books correctly?! 4 companies with no employees, making 123 million pound profit and not paying tax with 2.5 BILLION in assets...lets just say its creative accounting!! It wouldn't look good if he were to show exactly what he makes off each animal hence the transparency issue but i would bet my life that its a hell of a lot more than 300/head!! To be fair the Goodman group would have no history of illegal activity or wrong doing...

yosemitesam1

DaDerv wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/nine-goodman-companies-made-largely-untaxed-profit-of-170m-1.3943367

Do you think Larry runs everything through the books correctly?! 4 companies with no employees, making 123 million pound profit and not paying tax with 2.5 BILLION in assets...lets just say its creative accounting!! It wouldn't look good if he were to show exactly what he makes off each animal hence the transparency issue but i would bet my life that its a hell of a lot more than 300/head!! To be fair the Goodman group would have no history of illegal activity or wrong doing...

Don't leave the truth get in the way of a good story....

wrangler

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

What can a regulator do? It can't force factories to buy stock. They'll be happy to run factories at below capacity than give up their margin.

Processors would just say they're a private company, none of their business, get out.

Panch18

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Because of there planed scale and they are generic producer groups in that they will be maketing ordinary cattle rather than attempting to market a branded product.



Because if they do not it will be deemed anti competitive



This is a long term project not a short term fix. I have advocated this as part of the solution for the last 2-3 years since EU legislation allowed for such large producer groups. The Eu have legislated such PG's to try to counterbalance processor scale.

First off Processors will have to negotiate with them if they do not then it will be deemed anti competitive. As well if the fail to negotiate in good faith and low ball prices to this producer group then again the CCPC will be all over them. It will alos shine a light on things like processor owed feedlots, contracted feedlots and special pricing arrangements that went on for the last 3- months. By the way some of this has happened already and those poor finishers are only getting 5-10c/kg more than lads not in the loop.

You seem to be an angry young/old man. Did you not send any of the 180 cattle for slaughter in the window's available when there was no strike or are you seeing the reality that store prices are not collapsing as much as you would like. If I remember right from a few years ago you also finished 180 cattle out of your shed over the winter. Like I have always said this is a war not a battle. It may take 6-12 months to sort it a case of hunker down ango with the flow.

By the way the processors are under pressure as well. Already it seems they have been told f@@koff out of the courts. As well they have been told if they do not come to the table a beef industry regulator will be appointed. They have a lot to lose if they do not cop on.

As an aside last year ABP made 170 million profit. That is in the region of 270-300/head margin on slaughtered cattle. Up until the fire at a major beef packer unit in the US where over 10% od the national capacity was taken out Beef packers operated at a margin of 50-150 US$/head. It has climbed because of the fire to nearly 400 the US competition authority is all over it yet

Wait so the success of this producer group is dependant on Larry and Co acting in good faith with them, and if they don't then it is depending on the Competition authority to help the producer group to bring Larry and Co to order - this being the very same Competition Authority that has already banned talking about price at the talks. And has made it abundantly clear in the past that they will not allow farmer groups discuss price with the processors?

This is nothing short of pie in the sky stuff

You must have mixed me up with somebody else because 1) there's no anger on my side, just realism and 2) we never sell cattle to the factory from the sheds or during winter. Regarding the current situation we only managed to get 1 load of cattle killed that week. But we have been making alternative plans which are well in progress. With regards to buying back cattle, we ain't. keeping the cash in the bank is a smarter move this autumn in our opinion, but let's see

Regarding the processors under pressure, i don't know where you're looking but i see nothing to make me think they are under pressure. In fact it looks to me like they are really the ones who have bunkered down for the long haul.

Just regarding Larry's profit of 170m, feel free to correct me but i don't think i have seen anywhere that this profit is solely attributable to his Irish beef processing. What i have seen is that 9 companies in his group are making that money. So can you provide support for 1) this is just beef processing companies 2) that it is only irish beef processing companies and 3) it has nothing to do with his many other investments such as blackrock clinic, the former BOI headquarters on baggot st or the many many properties he owns in Ireland and abroad.

Now i don't know either way if that 170m is from Irish beef or not - the only thing that i have seen is that it is from 9 of his companies. So does anyone have support to back up that the 170m is from Irish beef?

Lets deal with facts in this rather than just hearsay

Jjjack77

How would a producer group work? I kill bulls, heifers and bullocks , some heavy cattle, if i was in a producer group would they send me to different factorys with my cattle,?

PoorFarmer

Jjjack77 wrote:

How would a producer group work? I kill bulls, heifers and bullocks , some heavy cattle, if i was in a producer group would they send me to different factorys with my cattle,?

I assume they deal with the factory for you and arrange the transport also. Basically a middle man. I imagine there will have to be a charge applied by them for wages etc.

ganmo

Jjjack77 wrote: »

How would a producer group work? I kill bulls, heifers and bullocks , some heavy cattle, if i was in a producer group would they send me to different factorys with my cattle,?

the way it works with lamb producer groups depends on the group.
some the farmers bring lambs to one location, a mart or a local yard, truck comes to pick them up. With others the farmers do their own hauling.

Cavanjack

PoorFarmer wrote: »

I assume they deal with the factory for you and arrange the transport also. Basically a middle man. I imagine there will have to be a charge applied by them for wages etc.

I’d imagine there would be certain specs to be adhered to like the lambs. Age and weight being the most obvious ones. Probably no bulls over 16 months either.