Electric car but 24 hour elec meter

Ush1

Just thinking would I be better changing to a night rate meter.

I have read that you need to use at least 25% of your electricity during the night hours to make it beneficial. Just to add that I only charge my electric car twice a week as I do such little mileage. It's a 24kw Leaf.

My wife doesn't work so would be using electricity at home during the day, cooker is also electric but I don't have an immersion as I have a combi boiler.

Reckon it's worth the switch?

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

Just thinking would I be better changing to a night rate meter.

I have read that you need to use at least 25% of your electricity during the night hours to make it beneficial. Just to add that I only charge my electric car twice a week as I do such little mileage. It's a 24kw Leaf.

My wife doesn't work so would be using electricity at home during the day, cooker is also electric but I don't have an immersion as I have a combi boiler.

Reckon it's worth the switch?

How much is "little"?
How many units of electricity do you use per year right now? Check your bills and add it up.

You'll need to provide more detail to get an accurate answer.

krissovo

How is your maths? Find out the supplier rates and workout your usage to get the best answer. I would use weekly figures for your calculation.

(Average weekly Day time units x Day time rate) + (estimated weekly night time units x night time rate) + Night Rate meter standing charge

slave1

Digest this thread
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058011241

irishgrover

as others said, you need to do that math.... when I did, I discovered that for us it was not work it.
6 people in the house, washing machine, dishwaster, electric shower all on multiple times during the day. Partner works from home.
changing provider every year is a more cost effective solution for me

Ush1

KCross wrote: »

How much is "little"?
How many units of electricity do you use per year right now? Check your bills and add it up.

You'll need to provide more detail to get an accurate answer.

Little is about 100km per week.

Last year I used 3117kw of elec for the year but didn't have the leaf for most of that time.

The problem is I don't know how much electricity is used at night or could be used at night. I'm guessing I would need some monitor to check this.

KCross

Ush1 wrote: »

Little is about 100km per week.

Last year I used 3117kw of elec for the year but didn't have the leaf for most of that time.

The problem is I don't know how much electricity is used at night or could be used at night. I'm guessing I would need some monitor to check this.

At 5000km's per year, the vast majority of the savings will be wiped out by the increased standing charge.

You will save hardly anything by switching to night rate.

krissovo

Its a pain but take your meter reading a couple of times before and after the night rate window, when charging and not charging and build your average consumption that way.

Black_Knight

Ush1 wrote: »

Little is about 100km per week.

Last year I used 3117kw of elec for the year but didn't have the leaf for most of that time.

The problem is I don't know how much electricity is used at night or could be used at night. I'm guessing I would need some monitor to check this.

Is that a guess of 100km a week, or what you actually end up driving? Charging twice a week and only doing 100km doesnt add up.
What range do you get from your 24kw leaf?

Black_Knight

Just a few stats on my usage. I've recently (<3 weeks) moved to a night rate meter, with the added bonus of having a new meter being installed a few months previous, so I have a breakdown of my day/night usage while I was on the day meter.

24hr meter usage (these are a little rough)
720 units total
524kW day
196kW night
Car used 147kW, and during this time it was pretty much all during the day.
Excluding 147kW used to charge the car during the day, that's 34% (196/573) of my energy consumption was used at night.

Day/Night meter
216 units used in total.
94kW used during the day.
122kW used during the night.
52kW of those night units went into the car. (this is probably somewhere in the region of 350-380km in my car).
I've switched most the laundry to night time (some starts in the morning and finishes in the day rate, but it's about 80% nighttime run), and the dishwasher now runs at night too.
Including the car my usage is 52% (122/216) night time rate.
Excluding the car my usage is 42% (70/164) night time rate.

By moving laundry and dishwasher to night time, i've increased my night usage by 8%. Add the car, and that's 18%.

Hopefully that might give you some idea as to the affect switching might have for your circumstances.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

At 5000km's per year, the vast majority of the savings will be wiped out by the increased standing charge.

You will save hardly anything by switching to night rate.

Not much, but you will save something. And all it takes is a 5 minute phone call to make the switch, which is free.

Even if you use only 15% of your electricity at night rate (a very low guess, you almost certainly use more than that during the 9 hours of night rate) the saving is:

50 extra standing charge
3000 units * 85% * 1c extra at dayrate = 26 extra for day rate

76 extra costs

3000 units * 15% * 10c saving at night rate = 45 saving at night rate
EV 5000km at 16kWh/100 km = 800kWh * 10c saving = 80 saving

125 saving

So your overall saving would be around €50 per year. Better than a kick in the eye

And if you run your dishwasher 300 days a year like I do and you decide to run it at night rate only, that alone will give you an additional €30 saving per year. Some people do the same for all or nearly all of their washing, drying, etc. and you can see how the savings will start to add up

It is also more environmentally friendly to use electricity at night as the average percentage of renewables (zero emissions) is far higher

listermint

Black_Knight wrote: »

Just a few stats on my usage. I've recently (<3 weeks) moved to a night rate meter, with the added bonus of having a new meter being installed a few months previous, so I have a breakdown of my day/night usage while I was on the day meter.

24hr meter usage (these are a little rough)
720 units total
524kW day
196kW night
Car used 147kW, and during this time it was pretty much all during the day.
Excluding 147kW used to charge the car during the day, that's 34% (196/573) of my energy consumption was used at night.

Day/Night meter
216 units used in total.
94kW used during the day.
122kW used during the night.
52kW of those night units went into the car. (this is probably somewhere in the region of 350-380km in my car).
I've switched most the laundry to night time (some starts in the morning and finishes in the day rate, but it's about 80% nighttime run), and the dishwasher now runs at night too.
Including the car my usage is 52% (122/216) night time rate.
Excluding the car my usage is 42% (70/164) night time rate.

By moving laundry and dishwasher to night time, i've increased my night usage by 8%. Add the car, and that's 18%.

Hopefully that might give you some idea as to the affect switching might have for your circumstances.

Just to note safety wise it's inadvisable to run large consumption device at night . Every fire brigade advices against it.

Up there with top 5 causes of domestic fires. Dishwasher, washing machine , dryer.

If your doing to run them like this check their distances from walls and sides.for ventilation again. And recheck their power cables and sockets are away from touching and surfaces. Common cause can include socket installation right behind machine and socket melts or heats up with proximity to machine melting the protection and causing spark.


Also make sure smoke alarms are working and fitted close to these machines.

Black_Knight

listermint wrote: »

Just to note safety wise it's inadvisable to run large consumption device at night . Every fire brigade advices against it.

Up there with top 5 causes of domestic fires. Dishwasher, washing machine , dryer.

If your doing to run them like this check their distances from walls and sides.for ventilation again. And recheck their power cables and sockets are away from touching and surfaces. Common cause can include socket installation right behind machine and socket melts or heats up with proximity to machine melting the protection and causing spark.


Also make sure smoke alarms are working and fitted close to these machines.

Tis in the shed. All good

listermint

Black_Knight wrote: »

Tis in the shed. All good

Sheds burn too, check the installation. Many people overlook the smallest details.

Black_Knight

listermint wrote: »

Sheds burn too, check the installation. Many people overlook the smallest details.

Socket is out from the washer and dryer. There's some ventilation around them both. Been in there for years, and both washer and dryer are new. Don't worry, it's all good. Thanks for the concern. If it makes you happy, if the temp in my shed gets above 40degrees i'll automate things to turn on all the lights in the house or play some electric 6 "Danger! High Voltage!"

Mickeroo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Socket is out from the washer and dryer. There's some ventilation around them both. Been in there for years, and both washer and dryer are new. Don't worry, it's all good. Thanks for the concern. If it makes you happy, if the temp in my shed gets above 40degrees i'll automate things to turn on all the lights in the house or play some electric 6 "Danger! High Voltage!"

Be careful with that, I heard of a guy who did similar and his shed burned down while he was too busy playing air guitar.

listermint

Black_Knight wrote: »

Socket is out from the washer and dryer. There's some ventilation around them both. Been in there for years, and both washer and dryer are new. Don't worry, it's all good. Thanks for the concern. If it makes you happy, if the temp in my shed gets above 40degrees i'll automate things to turn on all the lights in the house or play some electric 6 "Danger! High Voltage!"

No worries, if it makes 1 person think twice and saves 1 life. Then im fine with giving the information.

Fire safety is all too often overlooked until it happens to you/yours.


I like the idea of automation though. You should do that

Black_Knight

listermint wrote: »

No worries, if it makes 1 person think twice and saves 1 life. Then im fine with giving the information.

Fire safety is all too often overlooked until it happens to you/yours.


I like the idea of automation though. You should do that

Somewhat done. Haven't figured out the music part, but every smart light in the house will flash if the shed gets too hot. Though i'd need some audible feedback. No smart lights in the bedroom.

FYI. Nest protect sensors supposedly talk to eachother, so if you had one in your kitchen, one in the shed, and one in the bedroom, if a fire broke out in the kitchen it would alert the other devices and tell you the fire is in the kitchen. They're pricey buggers though

A night meter costs, what, 50 Euro's extra a year ? so what's the problem ? If compared to diesel that pays me back in a week !

Over half our electricity is used at night.

Despite not using my home charge point much since I have work charging more than half our electricity is used at night.

Washing machine/Drier Well Pump, septic tank Pump, Boiler, Central Heating Pump, immersion, I have electronic gizmo's that run 24X7, SDR radios, Laptop as server for Ham radio which runs 24x7 etc, it all adds up.

The Well pump alone is almost if not 1 Kw, septic tank around 600 watts.

Black_Knight

Deleted User wrote: »

A night meter costs, what, 50 Euro's extra a year ? so what's the problem ? If compared to diesel that pays me back in a week !

Basic math from what I can tell. Anyone who wants to find out their night usage can if they put minimal effort in. They're the ones with all the info.

- Note your meter at the end of night and first thing in the morning. Repeat this for a week or more and get the average night usage.
- Get the average day usage while you've got the numbers in front of you.
- For every day unit you use * 365 days of the year, add 1cent (day rate is 1cent more expensive than 24hr last time I looked).
- For every night unit you use * 365 days of the year, subtract 8cent (think that's about the diff between 24hr and night rate)
- Add €50 for standing charge.

The number you get, is how much money a night rate meter will cost you (negative numbers = you're saving money already)

Now add your car:
What annual mileage do you do? (A)
What size battery does your car have? (B)
What mileage does your car do on a full battery? (C)
A*B/C = annual power required for your car to drive "A" kilometers. Multiple this by the 8c saving a night rate gives you. Subtract this from your figure above. Huzzah, yet more savings!

Ush1

Black_Knight wrote: »

Is that a guess of 100km a week, or what you actually end up driving? Charging twice a week and only doing 100km doesnt add up.
What range do you get from your 24kw leaf?

I only use it for my work commute which would be 20km per day. I get roughly 120km from my 24kw leaf.

Black_Knight

Ush1 wrote: »

I only use it for my work commute which would be 20km per day. I get roughly 120km from my 24kw leaf.

100km a week, 120km range, but charging twice a week. You see why i'm struggling to comprehend this? No tipping to the shops? Weekend outings? Game of ball?

Based on that, you'd save about €30 a year (using my basic basic formula above), after the increased standing charge, just by charging your car at night.
Assuming 1/5 of your usage is already during night hours (750kw) you'd save a little bit more by not changing any of your habits (750*0.08=€60), and potentially another €20 a year if you switch laundry and dishwasher to night time too.

There's also the immersion, it's not always practical to have both dishwasher and washing machine on at night unless you have a wash completed ready to dry and have another was set and get up early and dry that. But it definitely is practical to do a lot of washing/drying on night rate.

We have a Bosch heat pump dryer and it consumes about 600-700 watts compared to about 2 Kw, it dries a bit longer and is much easier on the clothes. So drying with heat pump dryer is a lot more efficient I can say for sure.

Then there is all the other stuff plugged in 24X7 that can run at half price at night.

+ don't forget , if compared to a diesel car then the standing charge is basically paid for in a week !

n97 mini

listermint wrote: »

Just to note safety wise it's inadvisable to run large consumption device at night . Every fire brigade advices against it.

Currently "night" ends at 9am. For a lot of people it's not really night, it's breakfast time.

What's a large consumption device ? dishwasher , dryer, washing machine ?

I'm not bothered, never had an issue and the dryer only pulls 600 odd watts anyway with heat pump.

That's what fire alarms are for anyway.

listermint

n97 mini wrote: »

Currently "night" ends at 9am. For a lot of people it's not really night, it's breakfast time.

Night would be a catch all term for when people are immobile and unaware in their beds.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What's a large consumption device ? dishwasher , dryer, washing machine ?

I'm not bothered, never had an issue and the dryer only pulls 600 odd watts anyway with heat pump.

That's what fire alarms are for anyway.

That's ok..I'm just giving you the statistics. This game from a lecture from a fire safety expert I sat with recently. It's risky behaviour personally I'd like to avoid that in the home where my family sleep.

You only have to look at the near quarterly recalls of devices like dryers. These things can go up and flash over a room in seconds scary footage. I can understand someone's reluctance to care , just passing on the information most common causes of domestic fire.

Christ , if I were to listen to all the safety advice I hear in work and go through all the "training" BS I wouldn't get out of bed........

Common sense, if using a dryer have a smoke alarm close by.

How many people charge lithium batteries unattended, Laptops , hoverboard and ebike batteries etc unattended in their homes ? that's a hell of a lot riskier and People aren't aware of the risks at all.

How many People put clothes in dryers without reading the labels ?

Modern condenser dryers are quite safe but a lot of people buy cheap junk that have no sensors and are timer only so whether the clothes are dry or not the dryer keeps going and going, user error mostly. Or People use the times part of the program instead of using the automatic functions......

Ush1

Black_Knight wrote: »

100km a week, 120km range, but charging twice a week. You see why i'm struggling to comprehend this? No tipping to the shops? Weekend outings? Game of ball?

Based on that, you'd save about €30 a year (using my basic basic formula above), after the increased standing charge, just by charging your car at night.
Assuming 1/5 of your usage is already during night hours (750kw) you'd save a little bit more by not changing any of your habits (750*0.08=€60), and potentially another €20 a year if you switch laundry and dishwasher to night time too.

I charge it twice because I wouldn't want it running flat so err on the caution.

Yeah I'll have to check the meter overnight as to what the consumption is.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Christ , if I were to listen to all the safety advice I hear in work and go through all the "training" BS I wouldn't get out of bed........

Common sense, if using a dryer have a smoke alarm close by.

How many people charge lithium batteries unattended, Laptops , hoverboard and ebike batteries etc unattended in their homes ? that's a hell of a lot riskier and People aren't aware of the risks at all.

How many People put clothes in dryers without reading the labels ?

Modern condenser dryers are quite safe but a lot of people buy cheap junk that have no sensors and are timer only so whether the clothes are dry or not the dryer keeps going and going, user error mostly. Or People use the times part of the program instead of using the automatic functions......

We are way off topic now. But just got clarity. The recalls of condensers are recent and Hotpoint isn't a junk brand . One of most recent ones this summer.

Some amount of hyperbole in your sentence there.

Someone else might take a second thought , if not you I could care either way.

Making sure your home is less risky when everyone's asleep is sound advice. If you worked in the emergency service you'd know that. Alas... Here we are you giving it beans on the internet.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

We are way off topic now. But just got clarity. The recalls of condensers are recent and Hotpoint isn't a junk brand . One of most recent ones this summer.

Some amount of hyperbole in your sentence there.

Someone else might take a second thought , if not you I could care either way.

Making sure your home is less risky when everyone's asleep is sound advice. If you worked in the emergency service you'd know that. Alas... Here we are you giving it beans on the internet.

I think it's ironic giving advice on the dangers of home appliances when People are not informed on the real dangers of charging lithium batteries which are worse.

You get what you pay for, I wouldn't touch a Hotpoint , Candy etc !

You can call it hyperbole all you want, a lot of people don't know how to properly use dryers or read labels on clothes, that goes for washing machines too but misuse of dryers is worse.