Environmental awareness

completedit

Know some people who have given up eating meat and fish because of 'the planet' but will see them eating quinoa and avocados. Obviously they aren't grown in any field in Ireland. What do you make of this type of thinking? These people are good intentioned but don't understand the chain effect of global trade and how ultimately that avocado on their plate represents a significant effect on earth's resources. I saw a fact that a return flight from Germany to the Caribbean was the equivalent energy consumption of 80 Tanzanians over the course of a year.

Ubbquittious

We should go back to the bacon and cabbage. Much better for the environment

One can't flippantly dismiss serious concerns like the forest fires running rampant in the Amazon, the largest repository of oxygen on the planet. Environmental awareness should be high on the agenda.

One eyed Jack

I don’t really make much of them to be honest, they’re not attempting to interfere in my life or have me “change my ways”, so we’re all good even though we have different ideas about many, many things.

This bit of your post though, I’m probably reading it wrong as I don’t imagine anyone is consuming Tanzanians, seems entirely a theoretical extreme to try and make a point -

completedit wrote: »

I saw a fact that a return flight from Germany to the Caribbean was the equivalent energy consumption of 80 Tanzanians over the course of a year.

riffmongous

Good intentioned but ill-informed. Still better than bad intentioned or ignorant in that they can change much easier

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

People often have very conflicting opinions when it comes to the environment. Like the example in the OP. We have posters here who say they refuse to buy products with Palm Oil because of the loss of tropical forest and habitat for Orangutans yet support the destruction of local bogland because they want the cheap fuel. Others wax lyrical about nature but let their cats wander lose at night time. We talk a lot about local produce but buy luxuries from all around the world. Younger people are protesting to see action on climate change yet are glued to their tablets and phones without a care about how the precious metals they contain are mined or processed.
None of us have it right but many are blind to, or choose to ignore, the hypocrisy of many of our actions or habits.

riffmongous

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I don’t really make much of them to be honest, they’re not attempting to interfere in my life or have me “change my ways”, so we’re all good even though we have different ideas about many, many things.

This bit of your post though, I’m probably reading it wrong as I don’t imagine anyone is consuming Tanzanians, seems entirely a theoretical extreme to try and make a point -

Well one kilo of mass is around 37000kJ, X maybe 65 kilo average weight, X 80 Tanzanians... Now I assume the OP isn't going to consume the bones?

Greentopia

Uninformed. Sometimes wilfully so. But at least they're probably more amenable to changing to say a 100 mile diet and eating locally than the die hard carnivores who don't give a ****e about the planet and the future of their children.

Less meat and make sure what you do eat is good quality and either ideally what you rear yourself, or second best locally reared and produced.

Eat fish sustainably caught. But as much locally grown fruit and veg as possible. Cut out the avos and quinoa shipped and flown half way across the world and create replacement markets here for what can grown-like quinoa. If the Brits can grow it so can we. https://www.britishquinoa.co.uk/all-about-quinoa/growing-quinoa
*

It's really not that difficult.


*Supplies not guaranteed from this source after 31st October.

SEPT 23 1989

They are like a grain of sand on a beach trying to alter the course of a high tide

gifted

Environmental Awareness = gonna cost me money.

PicardWithHair

It's all about virtue signalling and scaring the population to tax them more.
Not denying climate change, but I don't see how giving $$$$ to rich corrupt govt. will solve the problem.

knockers84

gifted wrote: »

Environmental Awareness = gonna cost me money.

Environmental awareness = I just don’t give a ****

SafeSurfer

Environmental grief, predictably, is largely a middle class phenomenon.

Junkyard Tom

PicardWithHair wrote: »

It's all about virtue signalling and scaring the population to tax them more.
Not denying climate change, but I don't see how giving $$$$ to rich corrupt govt. will solve the problem.

Which YouTube fraud did you learn this from? Stephan Molyneux? Sardine of A Crab?

Wibbs

gifted wrote: »

Environmental Awareness = gonna cost me money.

Can be cheaper too though G. So turning the house heating down a tad = cheaper. Keeping a car for longer generally = cheaper. Walking or cycling more = cheaper. Not buying the latest leccy thingamajig made from the finest Chinesium every product cycle = cheaper. Having one less kid = massively cheaper. Recycling, repairing, upcycling older stuff = cheaper(though new stuff is much harder to repair in general).

Assetbacked

We have a fantastic array of superfood available on and around our island. Spinach, brocolli, carrots, kale, fish, mushrooms and the holy grail of food - the almighty spud. Whilst not for me, dairy and meat are available on this island too in abundance.

Buy local and by that I mean to buy Irish!

Thelonious Monk

If we all ate quinoa and avocados and shipped them all over the world it's still far far far less damaging to the environment than the amount of habitat destruction required for cattle and the food we need to grow to feed them.
It's a globalised world so exporting food around the world ain't gonna stop any time soon. Land use is the issue.

gifted

Wibbs wrote: »

Can be cheaper too though G. So turning the house heating down a tad = cheaper. Keeping a car for longer generally = cheaper. Walking or cycling more = cheaper. Not buying the latest leccy thingamajig made from the finest Chinesium every product cycle = cheaper. Having one less kid = massively cheaper. Recycling, repairing, upcycling older stuff = cheaper(though new stuff is much harder to repair in general).

I completely agree...we recycle everything, cut down on plastic....I've started cycling to work a lot more....what gets up my goat is when people start telling me to get rid of my car and get an electric car..get rid of my oil boiler....get rid of my stove....no bother, but will these people pay 100% for all of those things that I've just mentioned? Not a hope....that's where it's gonna cost me money....money I just don't have.

BuboBubo

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we all ate quinoa and avocados and shipped them all over the world it's still far far far less damaging to the environment than the amount of habitat destruction required for cattle and the food we need to grow to feed them.
It's a globalised world so exporting food around the world ain't gonna stop any time soon. Land use is the issue.

I believe Glanbia are working on growing a hardy strain of quinoa here in Ireland. There are probably a lot more foodstuffs that could be produced very successfully here. There's nothing that tastes as good as fresh locally produced food. We need to capitalise on that and develop it further.

Our agriculture is very traditional here, cereal crops, fodder crops, cattle, sheep. It's rare to see anything else in the fields around here (Carlow).

We have developed a love of foreign tropical foodstuffs here over the past 30 years. It's mostly produced using very cheap (slave) labour too.

The big estates of the past had orangeries, grew pineapples, with modern technology we could do it even better.

Greentopia

Wibbs wrote: »

Can be cheaper too though G. So turning the house heating down a tad = cheaper. Keeping a car for longer generally = cheaper. Walking or cycling more = cheaper. Not buying the latest leccy thingamajig made from the finest Chinesium every product cycle = cheaper. Having one less kid = massively cheaper. Recycling, repairing, upcycling older stuff = cheaper(though new stuff is much harder to repair in general).

That's a good point. If I was to live like many of my fellow citizens -driving everywhere, needing the latest and shiniest crap, pushing out 3 sprogs etc I'd be broke and miserable. And unhealthy.

Ubbquittious

gifted wrote: »

get rid of my stove....

It's strange that stoves have somehow become the enemy as well now. The most effective way to heat the house using purely renewable and locally sourced energy

Roger Hassenforder

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If we all ate quinoa and avocados and shipped them all over the world it's still far far far less damaging to the environment than the amount of habitat destruction required for cattle and the food we need to grow to feed them.
It's a globalised world so exporting food around the world ain't gonna stop any time soon. Land use is the issue.

Avacado farming is very damaging to the environment

Edgware

I'm all for the "car free " days when people walk or cycle to work. Theres no traffic and it a lot easier getting parking

Greentopia

Edgware wrote: »

I'm all for the "car free " days when people walk or cycle to work. Theres no traffic and it a lot easier getting parking

If it's car free why are you using the car? doesn't apply to you? :pac:

Leg End Reject

Mauricio Calm Pi wrote: »

People often have very conflicting opinions when it comes to the environment. Like the example in the OP. We have posters here who say they refuse to buy products with Palm Oil because of the loss of tropical forest and habitat for Orangutans yet support the destruction of local bogland because they want the cheap fuel. Others wax lyrical about nature but let their cats wander lose at night time. We talk a lot about local produce but buy luxuries from all around the world. Younger people are protesting to see action on climate change yet are glued to their tablets and phones without a care about how the precious metals they contain are mined or processed.
None of us have it right but many are blind to, or choose to ignore, the hypocrisy of many of our actions or habits.

Wibbs wrote: »

Can be cheaper too though G. So turning the house heating down a tad = cheaper. Keeping a car for longer generally = cheaper. Walking or cycling more = cheaper. Not buying the latest leccy thingamajig made from the finest Chinesium every product cycle = cheaper. Having one less kid = massively cheaper. Recycling, repairing, upcycling older stuff = cheaper(though new stuff is much harder to repair in general).

I'll just add buy less, quality over quantity ( Wibbs' point really). The move to consumerism and having the latest and greatest has really ramped up in recent years, since the so called Celtic Tiger really. If you sit down and think about it how much of your stuff do you actually use, and how much of it has any resale value? The latter really hammers home the need for a shift in thinking.

c.p.w.g.w

completedit wrote: »

Know some people who have given up eating meat and fish because of 'the planet' but will see them eating quinoa and avocados. Obviously they aren't grown in any field in Ireland. What do you make of this type of thinking? These people are good intentioned but don't understand the chain effect of global trade and how ultimately that avocado on their plate represents a significant effect on earth's resources. I saw a fact that a return flight from Germany to the Caribbean was the equivalent energy consumption of 80 Tanzanians over the course of a year.

Also quinoa is so popular amongst those in the west, it's leading to deforestation of hilly areas in Bolivia (causing land slides and soil infertility). It's become too expensive for the native poor to buy it now, as so much is sold to the West

Graces7

We all make personal choices based often on personal finances. Which never gets a mention in these threads. That is our basic right .

Many pensioners make choices based on a small income. I certainly do. No luxuries; heating as inexpensive as possible; and yes, locally sourced fuel that supports local economy and gives work to my neighbours. People before theories. The death rate among old folk here through hypothermia is a scandal. People before theories and yes before extremes of conservation ideas.

And same old generalisations.

Never eaten an avocado in my long life and no desire to. I eat simply and locally... Not even citrus or bananas. Meat costs too much for many pensioners and so does fish, and yes I prefer my critters alive. Especially my free range cats who keep the endemic rat population here under control . Part of the pattern of nature .

Comparing the rain forests in their hugeness and their total necessity for the world's survival with anything on this tiny island? . We are global citizens, responsible collectively for this lovely and endangered world. And the worst danger is insular isolationism .

But that is my view and my way of life, as valid as anyone else's .

Were I rich I would live exactly as I do now. No car. Using no washing machine etc. Living as simply as consonant with safety. Caring deeply for this world entrusted to us. Maybe being so near to the end of my earthly life gives a different perspective?

Edgware

Greentopia wrote: »

If it's car free why are you using the car? doesn't apply to you? :pac:

Only applies to suckers who believe all the tree hugging nonsense.

Wanderer78

Edgware wrote:

Only applies to suckers who believe all the tree hugging nonsense.

I'm wondering if it's worth asking your opinions on our environmental issues, I suspect not, but shur it's Saturday

SafeSurfer

Greentopia wrote: »

Wibbs wrote: »

Can be cheaper too though G. So turning the house heating down a tad = cheaper. Keeping a car for longer generally = cheaper. Walking or cycling more = cheaper. Not buying the latest leccy thingamajig made from the finest Chinesium every product cycle = cheaper. Having one less kid = massively cheaper. Recycling, repairing, upcycling older stuff = cheaper(though new stuff is much harder to repair in general).

That's a good point. If I was to live like many of my fellow citizens -driving everywhere, needing the latest and shiniest crap, pushing out 3 sprogs etc I'd be broke and miserable. And unhealthy.

Not if you had a good well paid job.

Greentopia

Edgware wrote: »

Only applies to suckers who believe all the tree hugging nonsense.

Of course. Because you live in a bubble where climate change, deforestation, species loss and other environmental catastrophes won't affect you. Or your loved ones. Keep dreaming.

Greentopia

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not if you had a good well paid job.

Wouldn't matter how much I earn I still wouldn't want more consumer items or anything else money can buy because those things don't make me happy. I earn enough to buy the latest iPad or a new car because I'm a huge saver with very low outgoings, and I could have had kids by now but I chose not to because I like my independence. More money does not equate to more happiness for me.

I work because I love it -craft worker and would continue even if I didn't earn a cent from it. Money is far down the list of what's important in life for me.

applehunter

Varadkar's comments about eating less meat were completely self serving and playing up to the Dublin media.

Can we have a meat-eating heterosexual Catholic as leader next please.

SafeSurfer

applehunter wrote: »

Varadkar's comments about eating less meat were completely self serving and playing up to the Dublin media.

Can we have a meat-eating heterosexual Catholic as leader next please.

I’d settle for someone competent with a bit of personality.

SafeSurfer

Greentopia wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not if you had a good well paid job.

Wouldn't matter how much I earn I still wouldn't want more consumer items or anything else money can buy because those things don't make me happy. I earn enough to buy the latest iPad or a new car because I'm a huge saver with very low outgoings, and I could have had kids by now but I chose not to because I like my independence. More money does not equate to more happiness for me.

I work because I love it -craft worker and would continue even if I didn't earn a cent from it. Money is far down the list of what's important in life for me.

Well great for you. That is your choice. In a previous post you said if you lived like most people, buying new things, having kids etc you would be broke.
Now you say you could easily afford all those things but you don’t want them.
Which is it?

You also say you would continue to work even if you didn’t earn a cent from it. Surely your must realise that you are in a tiny minority of very privileged who don’t need to work to pay their bills.

You make choices based on what will make you happy. The agenda of many in the climate alarmism industry is to either remove or make more expensive my right to choose what makes me happy.

It’s not about controlling the environment it’s about controlling the people in the environment.

Edgware

Greentopia wrote: »

Of course. Because you live in a bubble where climate change, deforestation, species loss and other environmental catastrophes won't affect you. Or your loved ones. Keep dreaming.

F××× em. Plant more trees and a few species less woud be no loss

Unearthly

applehunter wrote: »

Varadkar's comments about eating less meat were completely self serving and playing up to the Dublin media.

Can we have a meat-eating heterosexual Catholic as leader next please.

Stop forcing your meat eating religious ideology beliefs onto everyone else

Jimbob1977

As long as food and fuel prices are low, most people don't let it bother them.

And I can't see many people giving up their foreign holidays either. Me included.

I admire the truly committed environmental activists (rather than the band-wagoners). Unfortunately they make up a miniscule percentage of the population.

The Doomsday clock will continue to tick

Aceso

I do what I can to cut down on my impact to the planet. Like most people, I'm not perfect and, sometimes I don't/can't choose the action that is better for the planet but, I have good intentions and I'm always trying and always learning.

Hobosan

I'm not environmentally conscious at all, so I point the finger at everyone else to make up for it.

suicide_circus

i love the produce native to South America; chillies, tomatoes, potatoes, chocolate, the coca plant but quinoa can **** off. dreadful stuff.

Greentopia

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well great for you. That is your choice. In a previous post you said if you lived like most people, buying new things, having kids etc you would be broke.
Now you say you could easily afford all those things but you don’t want them.
Which is it? .

Like I said, I have a lot in savings so I could afford these things initially, but I would be soon broke (and depressed) if I had to get on the hamster wheel of working a regular job I don't like just to keep that kind of lifestyle going. Buying things to impress people I don't care about. An upgraded iPhone each time a new iteration comes out, a new car as a status symbol instead of an adequate run around, expensive clothes that are still produced in sweat shops no matter what the price tag, needing the newest expensive handbags, shoes, makeup, etc... all the crap people think they need to be happy.
I know women who had kids just to satisfy their family expectation or because that's what society expects-in their 30s and the biological clock ticks loudly. So they panic, get married, have kids and then wonder why neither them or the kids are happy.
People are free to make whatever choices they wish but for me that's not living and not a recipe for happiness.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You also say you would continue to work even if you didn’t earn a cent from it. Surely your must realise that you are in a tiny minority of very privileged who don’t need to work to pay their bills.

I didn't say I don't have bills to pay. I do, I just have structured my life and finances in such a way that they are minimised to only what I need and really want-energy, phone, internet, insurance and a few more necessaries. The majority of my income I save and use to travel back and forth to Germany to my fiancee.

What I meant was that if I didn't get paid for my work I would still continue it just for myself (which I do anyway) and I would put more energy into bringing in another income stream from something else I love-my partner and I have plans to do this anyway when he comes here as I will sell my house, move up the country, buy some land and employ permaculture no dig methods to grow food and have a few other land based incomes. I have a qualification in horticulture and experience in the area and some friends do this. We also have plans to eventually have a small house where he is from in beautiful rural east Germany where you can buy fixer upper houses for €15-20,000 with a garden.

And yes I know and appreciate my position, but I think most people could live simply as I do if they wished. It just takes prudent planning, the will to save and cutting out waste and superficial spending on stuff that is not really needed.

Yes I inherited the house I now live in, but I bought a run down tiny cottage many years ago before that for less than €50,000 with cash I had saved for many years through frugal living and working (on my own with no parental handout) because I never wanted to have a mortgage around my neck. I did it up as money allowed and sold it at a profit. That then allows you to buy something a bit bigger if needed and somewhere else you may prefer to live and do the same again. Any able bodied person can do that if that's what they really wanted and were prepared to move out of the cities in their twenties and thirties, work hard, become self sufficient and live simply.

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You make choices based on what will make you happy. The agenda of many in the climate alarmism industry is to either remove or make more expensive my right to choose what makes me happy.

Yes but I don't believe your -or anyone's "right" to live in such a way that accelerates the destruction of the only habitable planet we have is justifiable or ethical. Being fortunate enough to be born into this world comes with it responsibilities to care for it as best we can IMO and not just take take take what we want without a care for other people, other life forms we share this world with or future generations who will inherit the mess we've made.

And looking at the rates of suicide, depression, addiction, alienation, loss of community and social ties that are happening despite people having more of the things you say you need to be happy, one has to conclude the shiny trinkets of capitalism do not in fact contribute very much to happiness, if at all.

Jenneke87

I try to do my bit. I own no car, only cycle or public transport to get around in daily life. I have no children. I've cut down on meat, fish and dairy. Clothes I buy mainly second hand, same when It comes to furniture, nothing store bought, everything is second hand. Any left over vegetables I give to my guinea pigs as long as its safe for them to have It so that I don 't have to throw it away.

Irish Guitarist

Going cannibal is the future. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it. I'd love a nice long pig burger right now.

https://nypost.com/2019/09/09/scientist-suggests-eating-human-flesh-to-fight-climate-change/

Graces7

Greentopia wrote: »

Like I said, I have a lot in savings so I could afford these things initially, but I would be soon broke (and depressed) if I had to get on the hamster wheel of working a regular job I don't like just to keep that kind of lifestyle going. Buying things to impress people I don't care about. An upgraded iPhone each time a new iteration comes out, a new car as a status symbol instead of an adequate run around, expensive clothes that are still produced in sweat shops no matter what the price tag, needing the newest expensive handbags, shoes, makeup, etc... all the crap people think they need to be happy.
I know women who had kids just to satisfy their family expectation or because that's what society expects-in their 30s and the biological clock ticks loudly. So they panic, get married, have kids and then wonder why neither them or the kids are happy.
People are free to make whatever choices they wish but for me that's not living and not a recipe for happiness.





I didn't say I don't have bills to pay. I do, I just have structured my life and finances in such a way that they are minimised to only what I need and really want-energy, phone, internet, insurance and a few more necessaries. The majority of my income I save and use to travel back and forth to Germany to my fiancee.

What I meant was that if I didn't get paid for my work I would still continue it just for myself (which I do anyway) and I would put more energy into bringing in another income stream from something else I love-my partner and I have plans to do this anyway when he comes here as I will sell my house, move up the country, buy some land and employ permaculture no dig methods to grow food and have a few other land based incomes. I have a qualification in horticulture and experience in the area and some friends do this. We also have plans to eventually have a small house where he is from in beautiful rural east Germany where you can buy fixer upper houses for €15-20,000 with a garden.

And yes I know and appreciate my position, but I think most people could live simply as I do if they wished. It just takes prudent planning, the will to save and cutting out waste and superficial spending on stuff that is not really needed.

Yes I inherited the house I now live in, but I bought a run down tiny cottage many years ago before that for less than €50,000 with cash I had saved for many years through frugal living and working (on my own with no parental handout) because I never wanted to have a mortgage around my neck. I did it up as money allowed and sold it at a profit. That then allows you to buy something a bit bigger if needed and somewhere else you may prefer to live and do the same again. Any able bodied person can do that if that's what they really wanted and were prepared to move out of the cities in their twenties and thirties, work hard, become self sufficient and live simply.



Yes but I don't believe your -or anyone's "right" to live in such a way that accelerates the destruction of the only habitable planet we have is justifiable or ethical. Being fortunate enough to be born into this world comes with it responsibilities to care for it as best we can IMO and not just take take take what we want without a care for other people, other life forms we share this world with or future generations who will inherit the mess we've made.

And looking at the rates of suicide, depression, addiction, alienation, loss of community and social ties that are happening despite people having more of the things you say you need to be happy, one has to conclude the shiny trinkets of capitalism do not in fact contribute very much to happiness, if at all.

May I thank a kindred spirit... although I did not due to serious illness and ensuing disability make as many choices as you have been able to do, I too have lived and live as you do. Poverty is a great aid to conservation.

Including still no dig gardening., and happier in my old age than I have ever been. As few possessions as possible. No more clutter

You do right. You really do. Blessings and peace