What do you think of these welds

magnethead

Hi, these are my Roof beams just going in, can you tell me what you think of the welds please, if you are an experienced welder.
Are Butt joints ok being at an angle like that?

Thanks

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Gen.Zhukov

I wouldn't be qualified enough to offer an opinion on their safety etc. On looks alone they're not bad at all. If the welds were prepped properly, ie a decent vee put in, then that would help.

Have a look here https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

Decent crew hanging out there.

Odelay

Sorry to say but these are not good enough for a roof. The butts just aren’t jointed right. Back to the workshop with them.

shopper2011

I think you need a much bigger amps. Rent a bigger welder and put some plates on the flat surfaces aswell if it's for a roof.

fred funk }{

Don't know how structurally sound they are but they look very unprofessional and not something a decent welder would be proud of.

magnethead

Damn, Odelay, are you an experienced welder, and can you explain why the butts are not joined right?

Fred, how to to gauge how sturtural they are, is it generally from the quality of the bead?

THe Roof is fairly lightweight as far as roofs go, (EPS panels) which will have a light wooden structure cover with metal)
Not that that excuses bad welding

I'm gonna need some fast advise if these are to be ripped out , tomorrow they are supposed to be cemented in place

Steve

IMHO, they look rough but adequate. There's at least the thickness of the RSJ in the photos. The cutting of the angles is where the problem is, the welder tried to make the best of it.

That said, I'm not a structural engineer, I'm just a ramdomer on the internet, and you should treat all replies here as such. If you are to rip them out there will be money involved, probably a substantial amount, so for your own sake, get an engineer to look at them. When the builder sues you for costs of replacing them, you can't rely on 'someone on the internet told me they were bad'.

magnethead

Fairplay Steve, I totally understand, I'm just looking for some general guidance here, my Sturtural Eng will be getting a call first thing in the morning.

Bonzo Delaney

magnethead wrote: »

Fairplay Steve, I totally understand, I'm just looking for some general guidance here, my Sturtural Eng will be getting a call first thing in the morning.

I doubt any structural eng will sign off on any structural welding if you can't produce a CE welding cert

SlowBlowin

Hi OP

I am also no expert, just a DIYer, and most of the welds look acceptable to me, apart from the plate/bracket (6) and butt (2). It does not look like the weld has not penetrated the plate, just the beam (6) and (2) just looks like poor penetration.

Again, I am not an expert.

magnethead

Yeah, I thought that was the go Bonzo, I sent the Engineer for the Shell of my building (Manufacturer of the blocks is signing off on that part, including roof and steel)

I got this from my Sturtural Eng before "‘Any fabricated steel will have to be carried out by a CE certified fabricator to execution class 2’"

Oh this is quickly turning in a bag of *&^%

Bonzo Delaney

magnethead wrote: »

Yeah, I thought that was the go Bonzo, I sent the Engineer for the Shell of my building (Manufacturer of the blocks is signing off on that part, including roof and steel)

I got this from my Sturtural Eng before "‘Any fabricated steel will have to be carried out by a CE certified fabricator to execution class 2’"

Oh this is quickly turning in a bag of *&^%

Is this a contractor build or direct labour built

Steve

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

I doubt any structural eng will sign off on any structural welding if you can't produce a CE welding cert

It's not a case of the OP's engineer signing them off, it's a case of inspect them, and the certs, and flag any concerns.

washman3

Not perfect but more than adequate for the job in hand. Hurricane Dorian will not be coming this way.
Lots of people losing the run of themselves these days.
Go ahead with your work tomorrow and if you can give these welds a lick of galvanising paint.
Best of luck.

Bonzo Delaney

Steve wrote: »

It's not a case of the OP's engineer signing them off, it's a case of inspect them, and the certs, and flag any concerns.

That depends on what the engineer is engaged to do
Just give an opinion and take or leave it.
Or did they design the elements and to carry through with full sign off including certification in order to proceed with any monetary draw downs .
While I agree a lot of it is complete overkill and only putting extra cost on the customer. It's basically an exercise in covering the engineer if something goes wrong and puts the blame back on the manufacturer once the structural design was fit for purpose.

Roadtoad

Pass, but I don't expect the welder has any 'apprentice of the year' rosettes up around the workshop. That's a prettiness vote. The load is all important, it is the sign-off engineer's responsibility.

Steve

Bonzo Delaney wrote: »

That depends on what the engineer is engaged to do
Just give an opinion and take or leave it.
Or did they design the elements and to carry through with full sign off including certification in order to proceed with any monetary draw downs .
While I agree a lot of it is complete overkill and only putting extra cost on the customer. It's basically an exercise in covering the engineer if something goes wrong and puts the blame back on the manufacturer once the structural design was fit for purpose.

Agree, and neither of us will ever know without full details. Hence my advice of 'get an engineer to look' Whether it's the original design engineer or an independent engineer, the result is the same. It either passes (according to the original designer, who has to sign it off), or it is deemed unsafe by either of them (then the real fun starts).

223vmax

There is a mixed bag of welds there. No. 6 especially poor penetration. If an engineer sees 2 & 6 that will likely sway him to reject most of that welding. Get the grinder out and redo those welds.

stratowide

Did you grind out an angle on the steel before you welded them or just butt them together.?
If you did grind it out and welded from both sides it should be ok.
If you didn't maybe not.

The welds don't look great,but looks are not an indication of a good weld.Its the
Penetration into the steel where the strength will come from.

Gen.Zhukov

I should have said this last night. The way joints like this are generally made afaik is, the beams are cut at the correct angle.
Pre-drilled (6-8 holes) flat rectangular plates are welded to each end of beams.
Then the beams are bolted together.

mickdw

They are a disaster.
The weld itself may be ok but whoever did the work couldn't work out the angles properly so the weld surfaces don't align.
Welds done after priming and no primer on the welds.
There is no way that this is certified steelwork. Get your Certifying Engineer on site before you progress any further.

Jackdaw89

That’s not up to scratch really, you can see in picture 4 he brigade a gap of 15+ mm joining the top flange so fit up was poor. He’s failed to tie in his welds in spots and power was low so poor penetration. He never removed the primer before welding so the joint was contaminated, mig welding and paint don’t mix. It’s crap fabrication and even worse welding.
It’s not gona collapse but it’s crap work, cowboy didn’t even paint the finished weld.