No PP on shed

nutjobb

A house I am looking at has no planning permission for the large shed/workshop on the property. It is constructed with blocks and up 20+ years.

Is the mortgage provider likely to refuse draw down because of this or have any other issues with it?

Cuddlesworth

Would have to be a pretty big shed or have a pretty small garden left for it to need planning.

Cocobongo

nutjobb wrote: »

A house I am looking at has no planning permission for the large shed/workshop on the property. It is constructed with blocks and up 20+ years.

Is the mortgage provider likely to refuse draw down because of this or have any other issues with it?

Anything under 25 sq. Meters will be fine - there are height restrictions, but you shouldn’t have a problem there

blindside88

Have your solicitor look into it. I’ve been through the same thing about 6 months ago. Home owner had built a shed about 8 years ago and had an engineer sign a very if exemption (all seemed fine), until my solicitor looked into the original planning permission for the housing estate which stated that “no shed or garage could be built without prior planning approval”. Solicitor advised that this meant it we could have trouble selling the property down the line, we eventually agreed to buy once the county council gave sign off to say it fell within planning requirements. Better safe than sorry

Gumbo

nutjobb wrote: »

A house I am looking at has no planning permission for the large shed/workshop on the property. It is constructed with blocks and up 20+ years.

Is the mortgage provider likely to refuse draw down because of this or have any other issues with it?

Get the vendor to provide a certificate of exemption from the planning requirements (Class 3) if it fits the exempted criteria.

Otherwise get them to apply for retention permission.
Then proceed with purchase.

nutjobb

Thanks for the replies. Yes it's definitely over the 25m2 allowance. I'm not too pushed about it not having planning personally, once the mortgage provider would not restrict funds because of it.

I will see what the solicitor gets back to me with tomorrow. Thanks again

ZX7R

Just curious how old would a shead have to be , to be except from planning.

Gumbo

nutjobb wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Yes it's definitely over the 25m2 allowance. I'm not too pushed about it not having planning personally, once the mortgage provider would not restrict funds because of it.

I will see what the solicitor gets back to me with tomorrow. Thanks again

Your surveyor will pick up on it, he will put it in his report and then the solicitor will request the documentation. Usually the bank will not allow funds to be drawn down until there's a clean planning title.

ZX7R wrote: »

Just curious how old would a shead have to be , to be except from planning.

time doesn't make it exempt from Planning, It will never become exempt. Time will allow the structure to be unenforceable to be knocked down by the Local Authority under their Planning Enforcement Regulations, but it will never be Planning Compliant until you regularise it by way of a Planning Application.

Rew

kceire wrote: »

Your surveyor will pick up on it, he will put it in his report and then the solicitor will request the documentation. Usually the bank will not allow funds to be drawn down until there's a clean planning title.

I drew down against a house that had several additions that were made 30+ years ago with no PP, they didn't bat an eye at it as they were well over the 7 years and vendor certified there was no outstanding enforcement.

FishOnABike

ZX7R wrote: »

Just curious how old would a shead have to be , to be except from planning.

I guess it would have to pre date any planning acts (i.e. built before 1964) or qualify as an exempted development under whatever planning acts were in force at the time it was built.

ZX7R

FishOnABike wrote: »

I guess it would have to pre date any planning acts (i.e. built before 1964) or qualify as an exempted development under whatever planning acts were in force at the time it was built.

I was just wondering because when I bought my house in 2006/2007 I had same problem , solicitor told seller to do something and that was it I never heard any more about it,I do remember something about exempt at the planning at the time.
I never got a papers to prove this, Wonder would the bank have them?
So as planning changes over the years could the exempt on my shead change also.

Gumbo

ZX7R wrote: »

I was just wondering because when I bought my house in 2006/2007 I had same problem , solicitor told seller to do something and that was it I never heard any more about it,I do remember something about exempt at the planning at the time.
I never got a papers to prove this, Wonder would the bank have them?
So as planning changes over the years could the exempt on my shead change also.

No. The rules are applied based on when the shed was built. So the rules in force at the time of construction apply.

Gumbo

Rew wrote: »

I drew down against a house that had several additions that were made 30+ years ago with no PP, they didn't bat an eye at it as they were well over the 7 years and vendor certified there was no outstanding enforcement.

Did the several additions require planning?
The 7 year rule means nothing with regards to clean planning status. In theory if they need planning you can now be chased by planning enforcement section to regularise. They’ll most likely will not Perdue it too much as if they over 7 years there, the structures can remain. The use has no time limit though.

And, if you go to sell tomorrow, your purchaser may not be abake to proceed with the sale.

I’d be interested to see what the vendor provided by way of certification as you mention.

ZX7R

kceire wrote: »

No. The rules are applied based on when the shed was built. So the rules in force at the time of construction apply.

Ah ok I understand.
But what gets me is how do they prove how old it is,if there was no planning in the first place to give you an idea???

Rew

kceire wrote: »

Did the several additions require planning?
The 7 year rule means nothing with regards to clean planning status. In theory if they need planning you can now be chased by planning enforcement section to regularise. They’ll most likely will not Perdue it too much as if they over 7 years there, the structures can remain. The use has no time limit though.

And, if you go to sell tomorrow, your purchaser may not be abake to proceed with the sale.

I’d be interested to see what the vendor provided by way of certification as you mention.

Yeah they all would need it. We will renovate and regularise it all in the process. The surveyors report went to 2 banks who were both willing to lend and we have since changed mortgage provider as well. TBH it was the least complicated bit of the legals we went though.

Gumbo

ZX7R wrote: »

Ah ok I understand.
But what gets me is how do they prove how old it is,if there was no planning in the first place to give you an idea???

A surveyor may be able to approx the age. I would compare the bricks/blocks used compared to the main dwelling or that of any extension built. You may be able to match construction timeframes with that.
You can also compare aerial imagery available from OSi and at least get a time frame from when it was there to when it wasn’t there, for example, the 1995 collection.

Then in some cases, the year of manufacturer of the windows can sometimes be etched into the inside of the frames.

There’s a few way to research it and ultimately, if you can not determine it then regularise it. Remember with planning, there is only one real date and that’s 1964 and the introduction of the planning and development act.

That’s why you see “pre 63” mentioned in some cases as anything before that is determined to be an established use.

ZX7R

kceire wrote: »

A surveyor may be able to approx the age. I would compare the bricks/blocks used compared to the main dwelling or that of any extension built. You may be able to match construction timeframes with that.
You can also compare aerial imagery available from OSi and at least get a time frame from when it was there to when it wasn’t there, for example, the 1995 collection.

Then in some cases, the year of manufacturer of the windows can sometimes be etched into the inside of the frames.

There’s a few way to research it and ultimately, if you can not determine it then regularise it. Remember with planning, there is only one real date and that’s 1964 and the introduction of the planning and development act.

That’s why you see “pre 63” mentioned in some cases as anything before that is determined to be an established use.

Thanks for the information very interesting

nutjobb

Let's say if retention is applied for by seller, what kind of time lines are you potentially talking?

Gumbo

nutjobb wrote: »

Let's say if retention is applied for by seller, what kind of time lines are you potentially talking?

From the day it’s lodged, 8 weeks for a decision. The. There’s a 4 week appeal period. Then the final grant which is the legal document and then you have regularised it.

There will obviously be a lead in Time in finding someone to prepare the plans, Application, Survey and drawings. About a month before you’d even have it ready for lodgement.

I don’t really understand why banks care about lack of planning once it’s over 7 years. It can’t be knocked and the only reason the value of the house is impacted is because banks won’t lend for it so most people can’t bid on it. If banks just gave mortgages then it would make no difference if something had planning ot not (once it was over the 7 years).

Dolbhad

Chance Huge Armada wrote: »

I don’t really understand why banks care about lack of planning once it’s over 7 years. It can’t be knocked and the only reason the value of the house is impacted is because banks won’t lend for it so most people can’t bid on it. If banks just gave mortgages then it would make no difference if something had planning ot not (once it was over the 7 years).

Because it’s a defect in good marketable title. If that was the case why bother applying for planning for a house or even build as per the planning permission/building regulations. You’ve to remember building regulations apply also if after 1990. So having the planning means it’s of a quality required at the time. If you have an extension to the property, the bank will have an issue if it’s a poor qualify which effects the value.

In addition, the council may not be able to knock it down after 7 years but say you want to do another extensions or alterations that require planning, Council can take that into account when reviewing your new application.

Banks have taken a stricter view on issues with legal title compared to the boom. So when you bought it, it may have been fine with them but doesn’t mean if you go to sell, the purchasers bank will accept it. Or even if you remortgage.

The day you buy is the day you sell. If there is a problem when you buy it, unless you go for retention and fix it, it will be a problem when selling.

Gumbo

And to add to the above which the poster touched on, you are excluded from making any further planning applications or enjoying any further exemptions while there’s a breach on the property.

ZX7R

kceire wrote: »

And to add to the above which the poster touched on, you are excluded from making any further planning applications or enjoying any further exemptions while there’s a breach on the property.

So say if i was looking at buying a house and it had shed and previous owners had got retention thing on it or what ever its called.
would you be safe buying then.

Gumbo

ZX7R wrote: »

So say if i was looking at buying a house and it had shed and previous owners had got retention thing on it or what ever its called.
would you be safe buying then.

Yes. The retention regularises it. Assuming there’s no conditions attached to alter it.

nutjobb

So the outcome is, seller is going for retention which contracts are subject to.

We are proceeding with all the other stuff that goes along with purchasing in parallel to this so hopefully wont add too much time to the entire process. Hoping to be in in January.

Thanks for all replies.

Gumbo

nutjobb wrote: »

So the outcome is, seller is going for retention which contracts are subject to.

We are proceeding with all the other stuff that goes along with purchasing in parallel to this so hopefully wont add too much time to the entire process. Hoping to be in in January.

Thanks for all replies.

If he lodged tomorrow :

Monday 9th September.
Decision would be due around 4th November.
Final grant 4 weeks after that on around 2nd December and the final grant makes it legal.

That’s assuming it’s lodged tomorrow so add on days depending on when he actually lodges and allow an extra week for the decision and final grant physically getting to you.

Hope it all goes smoothly.