€10k annual saving switching to EV’s?

krissovo

I am now a 2 EV household and have been trying to work out my annual savings due to the switch. My maths are not the best but my initial calculations hint that I will be saving close to €10k compared to last year.



I have used our standard rate of electricity costs and not factored charging at work so there is some wriggle-room for more to hit the €10k. One of the cars will be replaced in the New Year when the Model 3 lands but the costs should be similar.

unkel

If you do big miles and if you would have bought brand new similar cars anyway, sure, that could be a ballpark saving.

Why are you not on the night rate for charging your EVs, that's insane!

colm_mcm

Do you know what you were spending on fuel in the first place?

(Attachment not loading for me, maybe the info is in there)

Lumen

5k per car not likely on standard rate of electricity unless you're running V12s.

Our main car does 40k km a year and I'm only banking on 3-4k fuel savings a year with home charging on night rates.

charlieIRL

I used to do 40kms a year and my fuel / tax / servicing costs (excluding repairs and tyres) was on average €4800.

I’ve an app that I record everything on, every single drop of diesel, servicing, repairs etc are all recorded on it. Bit nerdy but stats are my thing!
Fuel alone my cars costs 0.14c a mile or 0.087c a km. The golf will cost 0.016c a Km

Idbatterim

charlieIRL wrote: »

I used to do 40kms a year and my fuel / tax / servicing costs (excluding repairs and tyres) was on average €4800.

I’ve an app that I record everything on, every single drop of diesel, servicing, repairs etc are all recorded on it. Bit nerdy but stats are my thing!
Fuel alone my cars costs 0.14c a mile or 0.087c a km. The golf will cost 0.016c a Km

what car do you drive currently?

charlieIRL

Idbatterim wrote: »

what car do you drive currently?

2004 Audi A4 Avant with 235000 miles on it!!
I use the Fuel Monitor app to record all my details. Average MPG is 45.08 over the last 3 years.

Black_Knight

I did 8500km in my old 2.0 diesel 2009 Passat CC in 2018. Also spent a total of €869 on fuel alone (my commute used to be much longer and more efficient, but that changed in the last 3 years). Tax was €280. Service around €200, though I'd never do it every 12 months based on that mileage.

8500km would roughly cost me €100 on a night rate. Tax is €160 cheaper in an EV. Service is probably negligible since €200 on the diesel service would probably be after 18 months, compared to the €120 i'll be spending every 12 months on the EV (for warranty purposes mostly).

TLDR: About €930 saved every year between fuel and tax.
Works out around €920 saved in fuel cost for every 10k km I drive + €160 in savings on tax. charlieIRL is pretty close to what i'd be saving, given our annual mileage.

OP, what combined mileage do you do? And what cars did you replace with EVs?

krissovo

Lets try the attachment again



The cars were a Mercedes CLS 63 and a Volvo XC 60 D5, the annual milage was 17800 for the Merc & 27500 for the Volvo

liamog

We replaced a Fiat Grande Punto with the Ioniq.
I've estimated around €2,000 a year saved for Fuel/Tax on annual distance of 20,000 km.

Idbatterim

The cars were a Mercedes CLS 63

is that a joke?! your going from that to an EV?! you know there is a middle ground of an S500 from about 2012-2013 on, 4.7L twin turbo, 435bhp, E1200 motor tax, sits just a fraction below the E2350 rate

cruizer101

To be fair CLS 63 to an i3 is a big change, the savings are impressive but are not exclusively down to it being an electric car, significant savings could have been made changing the Merc to a smaller ICE car anyway

Lumen

Idbatterim wrote: »

is that a joke?! your going from that to an EV?! you know there is a middle ground of an S500 from about 2012-2013 on, 4.7L twin turbo, 435bhp, E1200 motor tax, sits just a fraction below the E2350 rate

That whole class of car is pretty much redundant now that we have* Teslas.

* yeah, well sort of.

krissovo

cruizer101 wrote: »

, significant savings could have been made changing the Merc to a smaller ICE car anyway

I 100% agree but a smaller ICE car would not give as good a drive as a EV. Going to a small ICE would be a step down from what I am used to with a nice torquey car. I have a Tesla on order, the AWD LR which has almost exactly the same performance as the CLS and similar running costs to the I3.

Idbatterim

krissovo wrote: »

I 100% agree but a smaller ICE car would not give as good a drive as a EV. Going to a small ICE would be a step down from what I am used to with a nice torquey car. I have a Tesla on order, the AWD LR which has almost exactly the same performance as the CLS and similar running costs to the I3.

OkI think tesla are great in a lot of ways. BUT and this is the but here, going from the S class, the best of the best in that class of car , with what? over 100 years experience, to a tesla? I just dont think its the same, I think an S class, is just in a total different bracket, class wise. I wouldnt necessarily adopt that attitude with a 3 or 5 series v the tesla...

if you are looking at pure figures on power, economy etc. Yes maybe they are similar and believe me, the outrageous motor tax is a disgrace, likewise with fueling a large engined car, if you are doing even moderate mileage.

if you want the newer reg regardless, yes it may make sense to go tesla. but couldnt you have gotten more than enough power from an S350d etc?

Lantus

What was the capital cost of the old cars and your ususual car spend or budget for any car. What was cost of EV? Monthly payments, interest on loan etc...

Sure on running costs alone an ev wins but people don't pay running costs alone.

krissovo

It’s a big jump alright but in my last service a HT lead cost €175 and a coil pack was €287, rear brake disc’s were just shy of €1000 with pads. Now there is a viable option for great performance when you want but it is efficient to run. The S class just adds complexity and would be a money pit.

It was an easy switch, even my first EV the Leaf was a simple transition. That’s no racehorse but still a good drive and IMO great value for money. With the pro pilot it drives itself most the way to my office and takes a lot of the stress from my commute away.

krissovo

Lantus wrote: »

What was the capital cost of the old cars and your ususual car spend or budget for any car. What was cost of EV? Monthly payments, interest on loan etc...

The CLS was €136k, the Volvo was €63k both bought with savings from car allowances & bonus/shares.
The Leaf (192) was €31,400 and the I3 (172) I bought at auction for €21.5k. Both were funded from selling the CLS (€89k) and the Volvo (€38k) with enough left over to fund the Model 3 which is €61k.

The Volvo was not great drive, the peak torque curve was all from idle and then hit massive flat spots despite its 180+ BHP. Both the Leaf & the I3 beat that hands down drive wise.

Black_Knight

I guess it's pretty easy to save 10k when tax, insurance and servicing on one of the cars amounts to ~€3800 a year more than the replacement EV.

Curious what Tesla insurance costs are like? They're so powerful, do they incur high premiums as a result?

krissovo

Black_Knight wrote: »

Curious what Tesla insurance costs are like? They're so powerful, do they incur high premiums as a result?

My quotes are coming in around the €600 mark for me & my wife.

Idbatterim

I have to say, I love that the thieving scum government, wont be getting virtually any tax or fuel related revenue, if people want major performance now, from electric. Unlike before where you only had ICE...

DavyD_83

krissovo wrote: »

Lets try the attachment again



The cars were a Mercedes CLS 63 and a Volvo XC 60 D5, the annual milage was 17800 for the Merc & 27500 for the Volvo

Saving of 2.5k in tax kinda tops up those figures. Not too say it's not a real saving, but definitely not a saving that everybody can expect to make.
Thanks for sharing, it's food for thought

Mike9832

krissovo wrote: »

Lets try the attachment again



The cars were a Mercedes CLS 63 and a Volvo XC 60 D5, the annual milage was 17800 for the Merc & 27500 for the Volvo

Depreciation?
Interest costs?
Monthly loan payment?

Black_Knight

krissovo wrote: »

My quotes are coming in around the €600 mark for me & my wife.

Not bad at all considering. Your insurance quotes are actually pretty good for your EVs, and in general.

krissovo

Mike9832 wrote: »

Depreciation?
Interest costs?
Monthly loan payment?

No loans so no interest.

Idbatterim

krissovo wrote: »

No loans so no interest.

saves a ton of money! also the banks arent paying anything out on interest from savings. So the only questionable cost will be depreciation...

did you sell the merc privately, there a fairly small market for an CLS 63 here

I have an s500, but honestly , most times in Dublin, it doesnt get me there any quicker than the mothers micra would :rolleyes:

krissovo

Idbatterim wrote: »

did you sell the merc privately, there a fairly small market for an CLS 63 here

There is NO market here, I sold privately but via a UK export agency.

Lantus

krissovo wrote: »

The CLS was €136k, the Volvo was €63k both bought with savings from car allowances & bonus/shares.
The Leaf (192) was €31,400 and the I3 (172) I bought at auction for €21.5k. Both were funded from selling the CLS (€89k) and the Volvo (€38k) with enough left over to fund the Model 3 which is €61k.

The Volvo was not great drive, the peak torque curve was all from idle and then hit massive flat spots despite its 180+ BHP. Both the Leaf & the I3 beat that hands down drive wise.

Those cars put you in a great position alright! Do you find the drop in quality from a luxury car to say the leaf or i3 a big jump out of interest?

krissovo

Lantus wrote: »

Those cars put you in a great position alright! Do you find the drop in quality from a luxury car to say the leaf or i3 a big jump out of interest?

I love the Leaf, my commute is a 90k round trip through Corks worst traffic (M8, Tunnel, N25). With pro-pilot and the comfy Zero-G seats I dont miss the CLS day to day. The Leaf for heavy commuting is one of the best cars out there I would wager. Quality wise I miss the leather dash and door inserts, When my arm brushes against cold plastic I have a moment of "Oh God!" but the Leaf does not have that much hard plastic.

We rented a I3 while I was working in the Netherlands, both me and the wife fell for the car straight away. So fast, comfy and has a unique quality about it. I rently bought one one from the UK that is fully spec'd and that has the self driving (under 80kph) and leather & wood. The only issue is that the merc naturally has arm rests each side and the I3 does not.

I miss it at weekends, taking a spin down to the coast and the V8 sound but when I bought it I remember telling my wife its a final blow out as Tesla is on the way.

cnocbui

Lantus wrote: »

What was the capital cost of the old cars and your ususual car spend or budget for any car. What was cost of EV? Monthly payments, interest on loan etc...

Sure on running costs alone an ev wins but people don't pay running costs alone.

It's amazing what sort of cost justifications you can come up with when you ignore the elephant trying to hide behind the standing lamp.

krissovo

cnocbui wrote: »

It's amazing what sort of cost justifications you can come up with when you ignore the elephant trying to hide behind the standing lamp.

I didnt switch to save money, it a nice bonus but I switched as I normally do every 2 to 3 years. It just so happens after test driving EV's last year and loaners from work in California I find them a superior driving experience.

Idbatterim

krissovo wrote: »

There is NO market here, I sold privately but via a UK export agency.

yeah my original comment was going to be, "is there even a market here for them"? the market in the uk is so much bigger, so many more that can afford it and the motor tax afaik is vastly cheaper. Then again, on a car that value, its not a colossal factor, but is somewhat relevant, certainly at an obscene rate like E2350....

what a shame, cars like that are leaving the country, when you see the relative rubbish that is flooding the place from the uk! how long did you have the CLS 63 for?

JPA

If you are so, ahem, well off as you seem to be why don't you already have a model s?

Lantus

krissovo wrote: »

I love the Leaf, my commute is a 90k round trip through Corks worst traffic (M8, Tunnel, N25). With pro-pilot and the comfy Zero-G seats I dont miss the CLS day to day. The Leaf for heavy commuting is one of the best cars out there I would wager. Quality wise I miss the leather dash and door inserts, When my arm brushes against cold plastic I have a moment of "Oh God!" but the Leaf does not have that much hard plastic.

We rented a I3 while I was working in the Netherlands, both me and the wife fell for the car straight away. So fast, comfy and has a unique quality about it. I rently bought one one from the UK that is fully spec'd and that has the self driving (under 80kph) and leather & wood. The only issue is that the merc naturally has arm rests each side and the I3 does not.

I miss it at weekends, taking a spin down to the coast and the V8 sound but when I bought it I remember telling my wife its a final blow out as Tesla is on the way.

Some good insight and very much appreciated, thanks. While I've sat in the l40 a few times and been impressed it's good to know that along a 140k car it can hold its own and out perform even in some areas.

ted1

Black_Knight wrote: »

I did 8500km in my old 2.0 diesel 2009 Passat CC in 2018. Also spent a total of €869 on fuel alone (my commute used to be much longer and more efficient, but that changed in the last 3 years). Tax was €280. Service around €200, though I'd never do it every 12 months based on that mileage.

8500km would roughly cost me €100 on a night rate. Tax is €160 cheaper in an EV. Service is probably negligible since €200 on the diesel service would probably be after 18 months, compared to the €120 i'll be spending every 12 months on the EV (for warranty purposes mostly).

TLDR: About €930 saved every year between fuel and tax.
Works out around €920 saved in fuel cost for every 10k km I drive + €160 in savings on tax. charlieIRL is pretty close to what i'd be saving, given our annual mileage.

OP, what combined mileage do you do? And what cars did you replace with EVs?

Are you forgetting the 2009 was paid for and the ev is costing you in repayments?

thecomedian

Now the title of the thread makes sense.
Any small petrol or diesel cars would have made a saving similar to that would of the EV cars. Not 10k but still thousands would be saved.
It still gives me a laugh reading down and seeing it was a CLS 63 being replaced.

Black_Knight

ted1 wrote: »

Are you forgetting the 2009 was paid for and the ev is costing you in repayments?

You're the one assuming there's repayments. Need a hand down from your high horse there buddy?

thecomedian

thecomedian wrote: »

It still gives me a laugh reading down and seeing it was a CLS 63 being replaced.

It's an extreme example alright but just goes to show that the effortless torque of an EV drivetrain makes EVs so nice to drive in everyday traffic. And the current leaf is also one of the quietest electrics out there (Audi/Merc excepted). Now if Nissan could just improve the (rear) suspension and give us some battery pack cooling and CCS...

adunis

I replaced a 181 Octavia 1.0 style with a 171oniq,
Replaced a 151 C4 cactus 1.6flair hdi with a zoe4.0
I was spending 100 euro p/w on fuel between them.
My last esb bill 86 euro was for both EVs for the two months,some public charging and granny cabling overnight at work involved.
Bottom line is fuel savings alone are paying for the brand spanking new Zoë
Both cars doing c. 30k +-5k km per year

Borzoi

thecomedian wrote: »

It still gives me a laugh reading down and seeing it was a CLS 63 being replaced.

Its like trading down from the 4 bed detached house to a new 2 bed A-rated apartment, and saying how cheap the apartment is to heat compared to the house, because of the heat pump.

adunis

And still meets your needs comfortably and economically

krissovo

Borzoi wrote: »

Its like trading down from the 4 bed detached house to a new 2 bed A-rated apartment, and saying how cheap the apartment is to heat compared to the house, because of the heat pump.

In what way? It’s not like I am going from 4 wheels to 2, surely if I traded for a couple motorbikes I would get your reference.

Also how did I trade down? Both the new family cars are superior in many ways to their ICE equivalent. Self driving, more tech, stress free commuting as well its convenient that the Volvo is being ignored, its over €3k per year less to run than any of the cars.

cnocbui

Borzoi wrote: »

Its like trading down from the 4 bed detached house to a new 2 bed A-rated apartment, and saying how cheap the apartment is to heat compared to the house, because of the heat pump.

I think it was more like saying you had sold a Gulfstream and a Learjet and now travel economy and are saving €450,000 a year on travel costs.

thecomedian

krissovo wrote: »

In what way? It’s not like I am going from 4 wheels to 2, surely if I traded for a couple motorbikes I would get your reference.

Also how did I trade down? Both the new family cars are superior in many ways to their ICE equivalent. Self driving, more tech, stress free commuting as well its convenient that the Volvo is being ignored, its over €3k per year less to run than any of the cars.

The poor Volvo will always be ignored when the other car is a CLS 63

kirving

krissovo wrote: »

Also how did I trade down? Both the new family cars are superior in many ways to their ICE equivalent. Self driving, more tech, stress free commuting as well its convenient that the Volvo is being ignored, its over €3k per year less to run than any of the cars.

They're a completely different class of car. Sure the Leaf has newer tech and is perfectly comfortable, but the Merc was over €100k more expensive for a reason. Diminishing returns of course at that level, but aside from the front radar/lane keep assist (could it hav be specced?), the Merc is a lot more car.

As much as I think this is an extreme example, compounded by ridiculous €2350 tax, I think you made a great decision in that you have enough left over for a Model 3.