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Planning permission granted for 471 apartments at former Chivers site

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    They aren't building everywhere just Dublin and nearby commuter areas. Large swathes of the country have no building going on.

    There are 14 tower cranes in Cork (12 in the city and 2 in the commuter belt) now, far more than all of the non Dublin commuter counties combined, even though it's mostly offices and student apartments. Still there are 6 major housing and apartment schemes (Janeville, Ballinglanna, Millerd St, Harpers Creek and Maryborough Ridge) under construction right now for a total of about 2,000 units when all are completed. There is close to another 4,000 units in various stages of fast track and city council planning. To say there is nothing going on outside Dublin is completely untrue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Varta wrote: »
    We need more housing and it's fantastic that old industrial units are being turned into housing. In fact, there are many areas of industrial units around the city that should be turned into housing. However, we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. We also need good planning. NIMBYs should not be listened to, but experienced, professional planners exist for a reason and their concerns should be taken on board.
    where did she gain her experience as a planner? because if it was working in ireland she can safely be ignored


  • Registered Users Posts: 691 ✭✭✭atticu


    shesty wrote: »
    I'm angry because they ignored their Senior Inspector's report which made the valid points about significant investment in public transport and recreational facilities being required in the area before the development went ahead, and that she felt there are not sufficient employment opportunities in the area to support that level of an influx of people.

    But sure hey, we will have loads more apartments in a field.Who cares about integrated planning?

    Did you read the full report?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 517 ✭✭✭Varta


    where did she gain her experience as a planner? because if it was working in ireland she can safely be ignored

    The reason Ireland is the way it is, is because planners have always been ignored.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Yes I did.And I know the area.The point she is making is valid.People will commute naturally, but the point being made was that the public transport is already stretched in the area and landing a load more people in on it is not going to work.Just because there are "good transport links" in an area does not mean a free for all should happen in housing.We see it everywhere in the city, and surrounding area -sure there's a station and a good few buses, it's well linked up, let's throw up a load of houses.No thought given to how the services are currently operating, whether they are at capacity or not, and no plans for any kind of future investment or expansion of the transport network, in granting these permissions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    But this is an infrastructure problem rather than a housing one. It should be listened to, of course,same thing is going on in West Dublin where infrastructure is beyond breaking point but what's the solution?
    Public transport is beyond its capacity everywhere in and around Dublin, should planning be blocked for every future apartment development and don't build units where units are needed until the department of transportation gets their sh*t together and magically solves this hot mess of transport in Dublin?
    It would make sense if housing wouldn't be so badly needed but it's 2019 where people go into lifetime debt for any auld crumbling craphole this in somewhat of a commuter distance.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    if you dont want another ballymun then dont throw a load of ballymun types in there

    simples


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    if you dont want another ballymun then dont throw a load of ballymun types in there

    simples

    Also maybe provide services and facilities


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,664 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Ten stories is nothing. These are build to rent, so the vast majority of people will be working. This will gentrify the area. I guess the OP lives around the place, so guess what? This may help your property price in the long run if you have a house.

    You should welcome this, but I guess the NIMBY blood runs through your veins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ten stories is nothing. These are build to rent, so the vast majority of people will be working. This will gentrify the area. I guess the OP lives around the place, so guess what? This may help your property price in the long run if you have a house.

    You should welcome this, but I guess the NIMBY blood runs through your veins.

    Are you suggesting he's a Leo fan?

    https://www.newstalk.com/newstalk-breakfast/criticism-as-leo-varadkar-opposes-fourstorey-development-in-his-constituency-523910


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Also maybe provide services and facilities

    It's nothing to do with services and facilities.

    People do not respect things they didn't have to earn and that were just given to them.
    Every council estate in the country is a testimony to that.

    That coupled with the fact that a large number of people in those places were out of work or in part time/low paid jobs because they weren't educated enough, didn't help the situation.
    Toss alcohol and drugs in, and you have the perfect storm.

    Hence the places went to sh*t.

    What people don't realise is that Ireland's housing problem has been brewing for years and years, everyone just turned a blind eye to it.

    There were no single mothers 40 years ago cause we f**ked them all into Magdeline laundries.
    In the 80's we built council estates and dumped everyone that couldn't afford to buy a house into these estates.
    In the 90's people bought in the likes of Naas, Enfield, Ashbourne as the houses there were advertised as only 15 mins outside Dublin which was horsesh*t. People had a bit of money then, so buying out there seemed like a good idea.
    In the 00's everyone was paying outrageous prices for houses, banks were giving people in their 20's 100% mortgages that had never saved a penny in their lives
    Now in the 10's the plan is to have these Proxy council estates like Clongriffin and Tyrellstown which are an absolute disaster. (Which is what this development is going to be)

    The "housing crisis" is not a new thing.
    But we keep making terrible short sighted decisions on housing which cause more problems than they solve.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ten stories is nothing. These are build to rent, so the vast majority of people will be working. This will gentrify the area. I guess the OP lives around the place, so guess what? This may help your property price in the long run if you have a house.

    You should welcome this, but I guess the NIMBY blood runs through your veins.

    I live about 2.5kms away from Coolock, so this does not effect me (I also do not own a property at the moment)

    We both know the Developer is targeting the HAP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    It's nothing to do with services and facilities.

    People do not respect things they didn't have to earn and that were just given to them.
    Every council estate in the country is a testimony to that.

    That coupled with the fact that a large number of people in those places were out of work or in part time/low paid jobs because they weren't educated enough, didn't help the situation.
    Toss alcohol and drugs in, and you have the perfect storm.

    Hence the places went to sh*t.

    What people don't realise is that Ireland's housing problem has been brewing for years and years, everyone just turned a blind eye to it.

    There were no single mothers 40 years ago cause we f**ked them all into Magdeline laundries.
    In the 80's we built council estates and dumped everyone that couldn't afford to buy a house into these estates.
    In the 90's people bought in the likes of Naas, Enfield, Ashbourne as the houses there were advertised as only 15 mins outside Dublin which was horsesh*t. People had a bit of money then, so buying out there seemed like a good idea.
    In the 00's everyone was paying outrageous prices for houses, banks were giving people in their 20's 100% mortgages that had never saved a penny in their lives
    Now in the 10's the plan is to have these Proxy council estates like Clongriffin and Tyrellstown which are an absolute disaster. (Which is what this development is going to be)

    The "housing crisis" is not a new thing.
    But we keep making terrible short sighted decisions on housing which cause more problems than they solve.

    Yeah loads of kids in one area, whose parents are likely poor...those kids get bored and make their own fun(likely to be illegal)... Provide them services that allow for a positive outlet and reduce the boredom


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,449 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Yeah loads of kids in one area, whose parents are likely poor...those kids get bored and make their own fun(likely to be illegal)... Provide them services that allow for a positive outlet and reduce the boredom

    You have a point, but this is a private company developing this.
    They want the HAP money, they aren't a bit interested in services and facilities for kids eating into their profit


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    You have a point, but this is a private company developing this.
    They want the HAP money, they aren't a bit interested in services and facilities for kids eating into their profit

    It should be a condition of planning.

    You get slums but just hoarding poor people into an area, and leave them alone without facilities. Ballymun is a prime example of this in the 80's


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152




    Utterly and painfully predictable post.

    Any other old gifs and links that you would like to recycle again?


  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭jay1988


    The major issue locally is that the plans that were submitted to local councillors to have the land rezoned origianlly, are a world away from what is now going to be built, ten storey blocks being built in that location isngoing to be a disaster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 465 ✭✭Ballso


    Are these not build to rent apartments for private renters? Where is the suggestion that they are a new Ballymun coming from?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Have had a look at Google Maps to remind me of the area.

    Plenty of recreational facilities in the area, from the LeisurePlex to Parnells, from St. Johns Vianney to the Omniplex.

    Plenty of schools and parks, Beaumont hospital nearby. Coolock Village for the pubs and churches. Artane and Northside Shopping Centres.

    Hard to think of a better place to put 471 apartments.

    The public transport links could do with improvement but that is what Bus Connects is for.

    At 25 minutes, Harmonstown Dart station is a bit of a walk, but if your employment is near a Dart station on the other end, you can get your daily steps in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,295 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The developers seem to be targeting the government HAP scheme. (Which is wrong)

    I'd agree with your point if it was a 100% social housing scheme. It isn't though.

    Some people on HAP also work as well even though they are struggling. And there are plenty of workers who want to rent, have nothing to do with HAP, and just want a roof.

    So I don't agree it would be another Ballymun. I think that's way ott reaction.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Took me a while to remind myself where it was. Good brownfield location. Numerous facilities and if done properly a far cry from the braindead planning of the sixties.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Also maybe provide services and facilities

    provide the services and facilities of course

    theyll be appreciated and used properly if you dont have any ballymun types around


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Took me a while to remind myself where it was. Good brownfield location. Numerous facilities and if done properly a far cry from the braindead planning of the sixties.

    We need to build on a lot more of these brownfield locations.

    Some of the industrial estates need to be converted into housing, there are plenty out on the Red Line for example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    blanch152 wrote: »
    We need to build on a lot more of these brownfield locations.

    Some of the industrial estates need to be converted into housing, there are plenty out on the Red Line for example.
    I agree. It helps focus on that density problem we have and increased city sprawl.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,279 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    shesty wrote: »
    I don't??
    I said her report noted that she felt there was not enough work opportunities in the area to provide sufficient employment for the number of people that could be accommodated in the development.........

    That is absolutely bizarre how many people work that locally, from Coolock you could cycle, or get the bus to Eastpoint business park or the IFC places of huge employment, you could cycle, or get the bus to DCU or DIT so accesses to third-level education.

    Planners should be challenged more, not saying there may not be an issue but that is a very poor analysis from someone who probably has a masters and is very well paid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭Qrt


    I disagree, Coolock, Tallaght and Finglas are the lowest price areas in Dublin.
    They are also the areas with the most social issues in Dublin.

    So the idea of dumping another 1000-1500 people in to an already struggling area doesn't make sense to me at all.


    Not really, not 10 stories high
    Maybe, Tallaght and Parkwest (Lovely places btw :( ) they are about 6km out.
    The exception is Dundrum which has a lot of privately owned apartments, for obvious reasons.


    Parkwest and Tallaght are a lot further out than 6km, 10km Minimum. We need to build up, and you can’t do that by “keeping in character with the area” because the vast majority of the city is 2-storey.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Portsalon


    shesty wrote: »

    I'm angry because they ignored their Senior Inspector's report which made the valid points about significant investment in public transport and recreational facilities being required in the area before the development went ahead, and that she felt there are not sufficient employment opportunities in the area to support that level of an influx of people.

    I wonder where that senior inspector lives. (And what political party she votes for!) And isn't it nice for her to be able to wave two well-manicured fingers at the homelessness problem in North Dublin.

    And her "feelings" about things are wholly irrelevant - if she produces verifiable facts then that's fair enough, but let her save her "feelings" for when she's watching Love Island or hugging a new born baby.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    shesty wrote: »
    I'm angry because they ignored their Senior Inspector's report which made the valid points about significant investment in public transport and recreational facilities being required in the area before the development went ahead, and that she felt there are not sufficient employment opportunities in the area to support that level of an influx of people.

    But sure hey, we will have loads more apartments in a field.Who cares about integrated planning?
    That applies to any area and there are planned public transport changes coming for the whole city. If it's a former factory how it is a "field"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Portsalon


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That applies to any area and there are planned public transport changes coming for the whole city. If it's a former factory how it is a "field"?

    The old Cadbury's site was and is surrounded by loads of greenery - I think there even used to be a small pitch and putt course around it for employees' use.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,809 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    c.p.w.g.w wrote: »
    Yeah loads of kids in one area, whose parents are likely poor...those kids get bored and make their own fun(likely to be illegal)... Provide them services that allow for a positive outlet and reduce the boredom

    What services are you looking for the area?

    Schools? Mercy College, Chanel College, St. Joseph's, St. Brendans, Scoil Chaitriona, Colaiste Dhulaigh, St. Paul's, loads more

    Shops? Coolock Village, Northside Shopping Centre, Artane Shopping Centre, Power City, Aldi, Woodies, Lidl, ClareHall etc

    Restaurants? The fast food is no problem with McDonalds, Burger King, Supermacs and a few chippers as well as Camile, Domino's and Subway. I don't know the area well enough to know which are the best of the local small restaurants. They could probably do with one or two more, but as good as many suburban villages.

    Pubs? The Cock and Bull, Kyles, The Concorde, The Roundabout, all in walking distance, no need for taxi after a pint

    Sport? Parnells GAA, St. John Vianney Soccer, you'd have to go to Clontarf for the rugby and cricket though, what other sport do you want?

    Parks? Stardust Park, Oscar Traynor Park, etc.

    Actually, tell us what services Coolock doesn't have.


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