Bought dangerous car from dealer, any comeback?

Kencollins

I all, I bought a 2008 reg Mazda from a used car dealer about 5 weeks ago. The dealer told me that due to the age of the car, there would be no warranty. Assured me the car was fine, and it had a new NCT too.

This evening on the was home from work there was a bang, the car pulled to the side, and felt unstable. Nursed it the few miles to home without too much trouble.

Had a look under the back and it's in shocking condition. It was dirty underneath when I bought it so I hadn't noticed the bad condition of the read axles and subframe.

I know it's buyer beware when it comes to a private sale, but do I have any comeback from the dealer for selling a clearly dangerous car? He is a full time car dealer, premises, website, the lot.

Here are some pics of the rear axles and frame

Kencollins

Kencollins wrote: »

I all, I bought a 2008 reg Mazda from a used car dealer about 5 weeks ago. The dealer told me that due to the age of the car, there would be no warranty. Assured me the car was fine, and it had a new NCT too.

This evening on the was home from work there was a bang, the car pulled to the side, and felt unstable. Nursed it the few miles to home without too much trouble.

Had a look under the back and it's in shocking condition. It was dirty underneath when I bought it so I hadn't noticed the bad condition of the read axles and subframe.

I know it's buyer beware when it comes to a private sale, but do I have any comeback from the dealer for selling a clearly dangerous car? He is a full time car dealer, premises, website, the lot.

Here are some pics of the rear axles and frame

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Qfk1NqBTtYWYLX3s9

1hnr79jr65

Caveat Emptor only applies to private sales, if this charlatan is a registered business then my first port of call would be to demand refund in writing, followed swiftly by trip to solicitor for selling a defective, dangerous vehicle which could cause injury or death.

PsychoPete

What caused the bang and whats dangerous about it? Can't blame a dealer for not giving a warranty, pretty normal to have corrosion on an 11 year old. People tend to forgot cars are machines, they break

c.p.w.g.w

How did that get passed on an NCT

Damien360

Is it a real NCT or one of the fakes ?

1hnr79jr65

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

How did that get passed on an NCT

Excellent point, there no way that would pass nct, how recent was nct, can you contact the approving center for copy of results and confirmation it actually attended and passed.

If fake nct i would be calling Guards too.

Tippex

Kencollins wrote: »

I all, I bought a 2008 reg Mazda from a used car dealer about 5 weeks ago. The dealer told me that due to the age of the car, there would be no warranty. Assured me the car was fine, and it had a new NCT too.

This evening on the was home from work there was a bang, the car pulled to the side, and felt unstable. Nursed it the few miles to home without too much trouble.

Had a look under the back and it's in shocking condition. It was dirty underneath when I bought it so I hadn't noticed the bad condition of the read axles and subframe.

I know it's buyer beware when it comes to a private sale, but do I have any comeback from the dealer for selling a clearly dangerous car? He is a full time car dealer, premises, website, the lot.

Here are some pics of the rear axles and frame

I would definitely be questioning the NCT on this one. check and make sure the NCT is legit?

Heres Johnny

Yeah first thing Monday get on to them, that's terrible.
Obviously don't name dealer here.
I had an 06 car up to last year and an 04 car up to 2015 and they weren't in that condition underneath so it's not normal

You can go on to the ncts website right now, enter your Reg and see when next NCT is due. This will show if NCT disc is legit.

Del2005

Kencollins wrote: »

I all, I bought a 2008 reg Mazda from a used car dealer about 5 weeks ago. The dealer told me that due to the age of the car, there would be no warranty. Assured me the car was fine, and it had a new NCT too.

This evening on the was home from work there was a bang, the car pulled to the side, and felt unstable. Nursed it the few miles to home without too much trouble.

Had a look under the back and it's in shocking condition. It was dirty underneath when I bought it so I hadn't noticed the bad condition of the read axles and subframe.

I know it's buyer beware when it comes to a private sale, but do I have any comeback from the dealer for selling a clearly dangerous car? He is a full time car dealer, premises, website, the lot.

Here are some pics of the rear axles and frame

What did your mechanic say when they saw the car? Buying a car you should always get a mechanic, or someone experienced in cars, to check it over before you buy. Stops all this hassle and eventually it will get rid of the cowboys selling dodgy cars like this.

Problem that you could run into is that someone selling vehicles in that condition know how difficult it is to get satisfaction.

Kencollins

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can go on to the ncts website right now, enter your Reg and see when next NCT is due. This will show if NCT disc is legit.

Thanks for all the replies! The dealer said the NCT was done the start of June and backdated. The NCT website shows valid until April 2020. How in god's name did that kind of rust get past the tester?

I will call to the dealer on Monday morning and show him the photos. I'm not driving the car as it's not roadworthy. It's actually been 8 weeks since I bought it from him. Is it still reasonable to ask for a refund?

Kencollins

Del2005 wrote: »

What did your mechanic say when they saw the car? Buying a car you should always get a mechanic, or someone experienced in cars, to check it over before you buy. Stops all this hassle and eventually it will get rid of the cowboys selling dodgy cars like this.

Problem that you could run into is that someone selling vehicles in that condition know how difficult it is to get satisfaction.

Thanks for the reply. Stupidity I didn't bring a mechanic. My car had broken down and I was stuck for a car. Either way, I intend to fight this. I'm fairly sure the car wasn't fit for purpose under the sale of goods act, and also classed as dangerous under the sale of a motor vehicle part of the sale of goods act. I have no problems getting a solicitor, and following through to the circuit court of needs be. This dealer put my family at risk, I will not be letting it go to a lesson learnt!

mickdw

That wouldn't pass an nct. Look one of the suspension arms has now completely come away from the bush/joint... The definition of a death trap.
Nct is fake or if real, money changed hands.

c.p.w.g.w

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

How did that get passed on an NCT

"I'll get a new NCT on that before you take it" is such a common phrase uttered in the second-hand car market. But, how are the dealers so confident of getting an NCT on it?

The NCT means nothing beyond being lawful anyway...

- My car of 2 years and 30k of reliable driving had its NCT in May. It passed the test, then 3 weeks later wrote itself off with an electrical fire under the bonnet which wrecked the engine. Flames, fire brigade, guards, the works. According to both a fireman and a mechanic who gave it a post mortem, I was very lucky it didn't go up while I was still in it. I thought the NCT was supposed to make sure cars like this weren't on the road?

- Then the car I bought to replace that was from a part-time dealer in South Dublin. "I just got it NCTed last week" he told me, and fair enough there was a new NCT on it. I drove it home about 80kms and took it to my own mechanic who told me a head gasket was about to blow in it. I am now trapped in deliberations with the original seller and it is potentially a very messy situation. These ****s know exactly what they're at and what they can get away with.

I'll be watching this thread to see what advice you get OP, it might help me too. However, not that I ever thought the NCT was a clean bill of health for a car, but I really found out just how worthless it was in these last few months.

Kencollins

mickdw wrote: »

That wouldn't pass an nct. Look one of the suspension arms has now completely come away from the bush/joint... The definition of a death trap.
Nct is fake or if real, money changed hands.

Somehow it did. I wonder would it be worth getting an independent report done and making a complaint to the NCT head office. If money is changing hands they need to deal with it.

mickdw

Have you checked online 're the nct to be sure it's real?

Heres Johnny

Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that an unscrupulous dealer would put parts on a car from another for nct then revert back to the defective parts just to get a sale?
So the car that passed nct doesn't necessarily have the same parts as when you buy it...

Not saying that happened here and seems more effort than its worth but I know there was the whole welding 2 cars together craic back in the day, although I'm sure that was rare enough too.

bazz26

Mazdas are notorious for having poor rust protection. Also is it a UK import? Some of them can be very bad for rust due to the amount of salt they throw on their roads in winter especially if the car was originally owned in the north of England or Scotland.

Kencollins

mickdw wrote: »

Have you checked online 're the nct to be sure it's real?

I have, it's real. Or as real as paying for it makes it!

mickdw

Kencollins wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

Have you checked online 're the nct to be sure it's real?

I have, it's real. Or as real as paying for it makes it!

Check the chassis and engine numbers then on the car to be sure that you have the actual car that went thought the test and not a stolen one or a cheap UK import with the plates swapped over.

Mike9832

I'd be posting this on the Facebook page of NCT if they don't take this seriously

Does the dealer have a Facebook page?

I'd be tagging them too lol 😂

Definitely money changed hands

Thats a rust bucket

Kencollins

Mike9832 wrote: »

I'd be posting this on the Facebook page of NCT if they don't take this seriously

Does the dealer have a Facebook page?

I'd be tagging them too lol 😂

Definitely money changed hands

Thats a rust bucket

They will be getting a registered letter with a copy of the test report and photos of the underside. I look forward to their explanation!

Mike9832

Kencollins wrote: »

They will be getting a registered letter with a copy of the test report and photos of the underside. I look forward to their explanation!

Me too

Keep us updated

Toyotafanboi

Kencollins wrote: »

Had a look under the back and it's in shocking condition. It was dirty underneath when I bought it so I hadn't noticed the bad condition of the read axles and subframe.

Where did the dirt go from underneath it in between buying it and now, that you can see the rust?

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I had an 06 car up to last year and an 04 car up to 2015 and they weren't in that condition underneath so it's not normal

Unfortunately, as already said, for a Mazda of this era, this level of rust isn't in any way unusual particularly if it's a UK import.

I feel for you OP, It's always very hard to picture a happy ending though as the sort of fellas who sell sheds like these don't do after sales care. The NCT almost certainly wont do anything of any use to you.

How much was the car?

Kencollins

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Where did the dirt go from underneath it in between buying it and now, that you can see the rust?



Unfortunately, as already said, for a Mazda of this era, this level of rust isn't in any way unusual particularly if it's a UK import.

I feel for you OP, It's always very hard to picture a happy ending though as the sort of fellas who sell sheds like these don't do after sales care. The NCT almost certainly wont do anything of any use to you.

How much was the car?

The car was 2500 euro. The thing is, it's not a shed garage, the dealer has 3 premises. The dealer agreed to meet me on Tuesday, hopefully that will be the end of it.

Kencollins

Cross-checked the NCT with milage and frame number, it's the same car. No defects noted

italodisco

Ive just looked at the pics and theres no way that would pass the nct.
Clearly the dealer puts alot of cars through nct and pays the lads there for favours. And yea, its well known that it goes on.

Atlantic Dawn

italodisco wrote: »

Ive just looked at the pics and theres no way that would pass the nct.
Clearly the dealer puts alot of cars through nct and pays the lads there for favours. And yea, its well known that it goes on.

Will be interesting the response from NCT, someone has to lose their job over this, clearly on the take.

greasepalm

If the suspension was like that how is the sump pan intact which also corrodes away and rusts.It does look like a uk import with all that rust,so what else was missed in the test i wonder?

Cerco

Deleted User wrote: »

"

The NCT means nothing beyond being lawful anyway...

- My car of 2 years and 30k of reliable driving had its NCT in May. It passed the test, then 3 weeks later wrote itself off with an electrical fire under the bonnet which wrecked the engine. Flames, fire brigade, guards, the works. According to both a fireman and a mechanic who gave it a post mortem, I was very lucky it didn't go up while I was still in it. I thought the NCT was supposed to make sure cars like this weren't on the road?

- Then the car I bought to replace that was from a part-time dealer in South Dublin. "I just got it NCTed last week" he told me, and fair enough there was a new NCT on it. I drove it home about 80kms and took it to my own mechanic who told me a head gasket was about to blow in it. I am now trapped in deliberations with the original seller and it is potentially a very messy situation. These ****s know exactly what they're at and what they can get away with.

The NCT is often misrepresented by dealers. It is not a guarantee of the reliability of the vehicle. Don’t expect them to forecast future problems e.g. head gasket failure. The will rev the engine as part of emissions test - if it meets their criteria it will pass.
Read the test procedure for more information. Don’t rely on NCT when buying, get a mechanic/ motor engineer to give it the once over.

Dia_Anseo

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Where did the dirt go from underneath it in between buying it and now, that you can see the rust?



Unfortunately, as already said, for a Mazda of this era, this level of rust isn't in any way unusual particularly if it's a UK import.

I feel for you OP, It's always very hard to picture a happy ending though as the sort of fellas who sell sheds like these don't do after sales care. The NCT almost certainly wont do anything of any use to you.

How much was the car?

Jaysus that's some "tough **** we got your money" comment.

I remember any motor related customer complaint issue you always have a negative outlook for the consumer. Other example was about a Fluence that was bodged with filler and you said No point in pursuing as all cars have a bitta filler. Turns out the garage took car back and properly repaired it.

That rust is not common at all....that car looks like it lived in the sea for a year!

OP get a report on the car asap highlighting the under body corrosion.
You could use the small claims court for 25 euro it's cheap and effective. Only thing is max claim is 2k. If happy with 2k compensation go this route otherwise it'll be expensive solicitors that may not be effective.

Also send report to NCT.

Dia_Anseo

Did you do a Motorcheck on the car prior to purchase?

There's a good chance that your Mazda 6 was an insurance write off due possibly to Flood damage.

If this wasn't told to you or included in the advert this is another breach by the dealer. This will further enhance your case.

Do you have the UK reg number? It should be on your logbook.
If you do I can check for you and let you know.

PM me

jmreire

It's a bit ironic, but when they are being NCT'd, and on the test bench, part of the test involves shaking the car suspension's vigorously ( in some case's the actual test causes a suspension part to fail ) so while it drove off the bench, and back to the dealership OK, the drive home after the purchase was the straw that broke the camel's back ( or in this case, the rear axle trailer arm...) This car should not even have been allowed to leave the test center, it's that dangerous. I know that a lot of the test is computerized, and these result's would be hard if not impossible to falsify, but visual inspection is another matter. And if the rear is like that, I wonder what the front was like???? On second thought's.....maybe better off not knowing.....

Mintoe

First thing is always go back to the dealer and give them opportunity to look after you, the consumer...then.if they’re not willing to operate within the laws that protect consumers. The CCPC would love to hear from you

delly

Looking for a new motor myself and came across a dealer who had a few nice looking options. He also had a number of cars over the last few months with super fresh NCTs, with a copy of the cert page as a sales promo. What caught my eye was the fact that in 4 of the 5 tests, it had the same tester initials. What are the chances of getting the same person so often? Very likely if you are paying extra.

Henry Ford III

The lack of any warranty should have been a clue.

STB.

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

There's a good chance that your Mazda 6 was an insurance write off due possibly to Flood damage.

If this wasn't told to you or included in the advert this is another breach by the dealer. This will further enhance your case.

First one to spot it!


I was about who say the last owner must have been a u-boat commander as that car has been in the water.

Toyotafanboi

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Jaysus that's some "tough **** we got your money" comment.

I remember any motor related customer complaint issue you always have a negative outlook for the consumer. Other example was about a Fluence that was bodged with filler and you said No point in pursuing as all cars have a bitta filler. Turns out the garage took car back and properly repaired it.

That rust is not common at all....that car looks like it lived in the sea for a year!

OP get a report on the car asap highlighting the under body corrosion.
You could use the small claims court for 25 euro it's cheap and effective. Only thing is max claim is 2k. If happy with 2k compensation go this route otherwise it'll be expensive solicitors that may not be effective.

Also send report to NCT.

That degree of rust is certainly excessive compared to most modern cars, that's true, you wouldn't expect to find a 10 year old car literally falling apart from rust, the same way you would have 2 decades ago, but it is actually not unusual at all on a mid noughties Mazda, they are well known for having very poor rust protection, look under any of them and they're by and large all very crispy like this one unless it's a very low mileage example.

It may be a negative view, but its realistic. Do you think the sort of bandit dealer who sells a car in this condition with what is clearly a "mated rates" NCT and blatantly says the car comes with no warranty or comeback, despite that being in contravention of consumer rights is going to just take the car back and refund the OP? Because that's naive. You're dealing with a rogue, he's not going to be embarrassed and apologetic.

Do you really think the NCT will act on this? They are closed society, they are going to look after their own here. They are probably going to review the OP's correspondence, they may act on it internally, but they arent going to call the OP back and tell him they sacked the fella that tested it and even if they did, what use is that to the OP?

You have to live in a real world not a candy land. Maybe OP will be lucky, maybe the seller will take the car back, but the facts before us look like he's been duped, and the sort of people who do that dont do customer service or refunds. I do feel bad for them, genuinely, but what do you think will happen here?

Iirc with that Fluence it was bought as a pretty new car and bought from a Renault dealer so not really similar to this. We also never found out what the "proper" repair was and it was damage to the rear quarter panel, so I'd imagine it was just filled again and painted with better finish so it was less obvious. Is there anything actually wrong with a filler repair anyway?

listermint

Mintoe wrote: »

First thing is always go back to the dealer and give them opportunity to look after you, the consumer...then.if they’re not willing to operate within the laws that protect consumers. The CCPC would love to hear from you

Not a hope , I'd be going straight to the nct and whomever issues the contract, dept of transport is it it or the RSA?

Some center here needs a serious review. Same thing happened a few years as ago and there was job losses.

This is very serious. And potential life's at risk.

Toyotafanboi

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Did you do a Motorcheck on the car prior to purchase?

There's a good chance that your Mazda 6 was an insurance write off due possibly to Flood damage.

If this wasn't told to you or included in the advert this is another breach by the dealer. This will further enhance your case.

Do you have the UK reg number? It should be on your logbook.
If you do I can check for you and let you know.

PM me

Where on earth are you getting that from? Flood damage? Because it's rusty? Did you know that every car gets wet under there every time it's used in the rain? Its Mazdas lack or rust protection that caused this, just google Mazda 6 rust issues, it's no secret that they decompose like this. They are inherently flawed.

Let's at least try and keep OP on the straight and narrow with the facts, so they can try and make headway and not be giving them dead end leads like this.

Best case scenario here is to get the suspension arms replaced, if the rest of the structure can still support them, that is, treat the underneath of the car in a rust treatment and hope to get another year or two from it.

STB.

What will most likely happen Toyotafanboi is that the dealer who according to the OP has 3 dealerships will probably take it back if the OP kicks up enough of a fuss.

Given the dealer "assured the OP that the car was fine, and it had a new NCT too" there are now far more questions that nobody will want answered ever. There is no way in hell that would pass an NCT. THE NCT process was to keep cars like this off the road. Mazda had rust problems in the early noughties with rusting in wheel wells and it wasn't that permateted.

That car looks like it was parked in an underground garage that flooded or was in the drink.

Dravokivich

PsychoPete wrote: »

What caused the bang and whats dangerous about it? Can't blame a dealer for not giving a warranty, pretty normal to have corrosion on an 11 year old. People tend to forgot cars are machines, they break

They have to give a warranty. I've always had one on any car I bought.

Looking at the photos, it doesn't seem like something that would be a shock to the dealer. By the sound of the op, they've pretty much told you not to expect to get much from it. What did they saw exactly, any indication it wasnt road worthy? Becuase it certainly isnt.

punisher5112

Nissan Navara has very bad corrosion issues also where the chassis actually snaps in half.....

Something very similar to the Mazda rust issue....

Definitely get NCT involved and get straight back to dealer. I would cause a huge fuss at dealership and park it in such a manner that it's in the way...

up for anything

Not all real NCTs are what they seem!

monkeysnapper

I went to my local skoda dealer about year and half and I was looking to buy a roomster, 2008 as it happens ... he said it was a courtesy car and he wanted to just sell it cheap to " get it off the court" I asked about warranty and he said no warranty......he then kind of stopped and you could see the cogs going around , he then said " well we as a trader we cant sell without a warranty. 3 months or a certain amount of miles ...

Actually same happened last October...I was at VW and looked at a 2006 passat and he did something similar, he said 3 months or 1000/ 2000 km I forget

greasepalm

delly wrote: »

Looking for a new motor myself and came across a dealer who had a few nice looking options. He also had a number of cars over the last few months with super fresh NCTs, with a copy of the cert page as a sales promo. What caught my eye was the fact that in 4 of the 5 tests, it had the same tester initials. What are the chances of getting the same person so often? Very likely if you are paying extra.

Out of the many visits to the nct with my own private cars recently i noticed i was getting the same tester to look at my model maybe 4 out of 5 possibly because he might know more about them and had worked on them before?
Maybe some testers do their types like vw,peugeot,toyota etc so know their downfalls but can test all cars in a test centre.

up for anything

up for anything wrote: »

Not all real NCTs are what they seem!

RTE exposed that a few years ago in a documentary. I'd be sceptical of an NCT test since I seen it.

Always have a mechanic with me now when buying a car, or else get a warranty.

Kind of similar situation happened me.
Mazda also. Would never get one again.
But bought from a dealer in November one year. Was gone in January. I rang the consumer rights place, you have a few choices..
Is the dealer SIMI registered? Then go the SIMI route.
If not then you still have rights. Small claims court I think you can lodge a claim online- up to 2k I believe.
Whether you got warranty or not your protected by the sale of goods act.
Did you contact the dealer to give him a chance to carry out the Repairs? Replace car? If you did and he refused then next step is the consumer rights agency.

jmreire

greasepalm wrote: »

Out of the many visits to the nct with my own private cars recently i noticed i was getting the same tester to look at my model maybe 4 out of 5 possibly because he might know more about them and had worked on them before?
Maybe some testers do their types like vw,peugeot,toyota etc so know their downfalls but can test all cars in a test centre.

Should not make any difference really...the Computer is plugged into the car on the test bench, and this identifys the type make etc, and it's a standard nr of items tested, Brakes, Suspensions,Steering, Emission's etc. It doe's not examine every nut and bolt on the vehicle, Rust etc. is by visible examination.

greasepalm

jmreire wrote: »

Should not make any difference really...the Computer is plugged into the car on the test bench, and this identifys the type make etc, and it's a standard nr of items tested, Brakes, Suspensions,Steering, Emission's etc. It doe's not examine every nut and bolt on the vehicle, Rust etc. is by visible examination.

I am well aware as working on cars for the last 40 years and good light and vision needed when up on a ramp you see more than you want to see when customer leaves car in for service and anything else needed to pass nct.
Sometimes the cost of repairs exceed the price of a bought car if you have to factor in service,tyres,ohh tb needs changing,and severe rusting as seen on a car that came over uk on a holiday with leaking petrol.When up on ramp all the underside was caked in rust and the topping off was the severe rusting on all metal brake pipes.We showed it to him and said that car should not be on the road:eek: