The leaving cert

Would you prefer to be doing the leaving cert now circa 2019, or when you completed it originally?

It's nearly 40 years since I did it, colleges were much harder to get in to and you had to do the metric as well, the school was very academic a lot of emphasis on passing Irish or foreign languages as you had to have them for university the same with having to pass maths.

It appears to be much easier today but that might just be a perception?

PMBC

I did mine and got results this month 50 yrs ago. Times were different. School principal phoned office where I worked and left a message for me.
I think the course materials are slightly harder, except for Irish where the texts look more interesting. I had Peig and M'Asal Beag Dubh! The results at the upper end are definitely higher despite what people say about 'dumbing down'. I have great faith in this generation despite their parents and elders' concerns for media use, drinking excessively, drugs etc. Financially they seem to be better off but life is mentally/emotionally harder for them.

Roger Hassenforder

Was in Easons the other day and flicked through a few of the exam papers.
I reckon I'd get about 600 points without doing a tap.
I could be a neuro surgeon

Collie D

The Leaving Cert - the most important thing you’ll ever do...until the day of your results when all the lying ***** who taught or raised you tell you “Ah, in reality it’s not worth a $h1te”

Feisar

It's marked on a curve. I.e, there are the same percentages of A's, B's, C's as they always were so perceived toughness is irrelevant.

Potential-Monke

Yeah, I would prefer to be doing it now rather than back in 2001. Choice was still fairly limited back then, but now there's a lot more options. And from what I've been hearing (albeit limited) is that it's easier now than back in the day. But that's to be expected. Progress in teaching methodologies, better texts, more accurate information, access to the www and more support systems. Actually, I want to go back and do TY again, one of the best years of my life!

It's done, nearly twenty years ago. No point second guessing the past.

B.A._Baracus

I'm very meh on the leaving cert :pac:
If you do bad? well you can go to college as a mature student at 21. Say how in the last 3/4 years you've done X, Y and Z relating to the field.
Then there's people who did great. Went to college and dropped out or changed their field of study completely.

Overall you're right op. It is easier today. Of course some 17yo isn't going to know that :pac:

Feisar

Deleted User wrote: »

It's done, nearly twenty years ago. No point second guessing the past.

True, I'm out fifteen years, still getting the nightmare though.

Feisar

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

I'm very meh on the leaving cert :pac:
If you do bad? well you can go to college as a mature student at 21. Say how in the last 3/4 years you've done X, Y and Z relating to the field.
Then there's people who did great. Went to college and dropped out or changed their field of study completely.

Overall you're right op. It is easier today. Of course some 17yo isn't going to know that :pac:

Yea but it's easier for everyone so in effect it's not easier.

Like when they extended the Geography extan from 3 to 3:20 hours. It was supposed to give people time to get everything done. All that happened was what was what constituted an A answer increased in. It may have benefited a small few who had the info but couldn't get it down in time maybe.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Feisar wrote: »

It's marked on a curve. I.e, there are the same percentages of A's, B's, C's as they always were so perceived toughness is irrelevant.

Don’t think so.

EmmetSpiceland

Feisar wrote: »

True, I'm out fifteen years, still getting the nightmare though.

Never understood the “nightmare” thing, F. The Leaving Cert was fine, it’s a glorified memory test.

Thankfully, I’ve got a good memory so got my first choice and went on to study at UCD where I enjoyed a good balance of study and “socialising”. More of the latter at times though!

My school had decent teachers who could get the “course” across to us, which certainly helped. But it would bloody well want to, considering how much my parents would have paid for it!!

My advice to anyone going into their Leaving Cert year would be to work hard, it’s only a year, and you’ll reap the rewards. I would also recommend knowing what you would like to do, whether it’s college or something else but to avoid the “wishy washy” Arts type courses.

ELM327

Completed 14 years ago, glad it's done/
No relevance on my life at all

ILoveYourVibes

I only did it 6 yrs ago. It was piece of piss to be fair.

I didn't study i got 490/480 or something.

Wanderer78

a dreadful system, a dreadful approach to preparing people for adulthood, a competition that rewards a certain type of thinker, and punishes others, it should have been overhauled years ago, but im not sure that ll ever happen

Berserker

It's an awful way to prepare young people for their working life. I'm in my 30s now, so the curriculum has changed since I sat my LC. I've a very good memory and head for Mathematics, so I found it easy. Would be very interesting to see how many points I'd get now.

What is the career guidance like now? It was nothing short of abysmal in my day. The teacher calculated the number of points your were going to get and told you the CAO course/s you should apply for based on the number of points you were going to get.

Pherekydes

My year got their results 41 years ago. :eek: I was already working full-time. About half the guys I joined the army with did their LC and half didn't. We all did the same job. You need your LC to apply for the same apprenticeship these days, and it's a degree course. :rolleyes:

Same job, though.

Wanderer78

Berserker wrote: »

It's an awful way to prepare young people for their working life. I'm in my 30s now, so the curriculum has changed since I sat my LC. I've a very good memory and head for Mathematics, so I had my pick of courses. Would be very interesting to see how many points I'd get now.

What is the career guidance like now? It was nothing short of abysmal in my day. The teacher calculated the number of points your were going to get and told you the CAO course/s you should apply for based on the number of points you were going to get.

was recently talking to a teenager, i was shocked at how bad career guidance still is within our educational system. he made his mind up a long time ago, college simply isnt for him and has decided the trades is for him, but his career guidance teacher was trying to force him to write down all the courses that interest him, he simply has no interest, he has been completely bored of school for a couple of years now, he spent most of 4th year on the duck, he is a very good kid, just simply bored out of his mind in school

JustJoe7240

Wanderer78 wrote: »

was recently talking to a teenager, i was shocked at how bad career guidance still is within our educational system. he made his mind up a long time ago, college simply isnt for him and has decided the trades is for him, but his career guidance teacher was trying to force him to write down all the courses that interest him, he simply has no interest, he has been completely bored of school for a couple of years now, he spent most of 4th year on the duck, he is a very good kid, just simply bored out of his mind in school

Sounds like the kid is clued in, Trades still looked down on these days despite a huge lack of skilled workers in industry!

ILoveYourVibes

Wanderer78 wrote: »

was recently talking to a teenager, i was shocked at how bad career guidance still is within our educational system. he made his mind up a long time ago, college simply isnt for him and has decided the trades is for him, but his career guidance teacher was trying to force him to write down all the courses that interest him, he simply has no interest, he has been completely bored of school for a couple of years now, he spent most of 4th year on the duck, he is a very good kid, just simply bored out of his mind in school

Its really shocking. They haven't even a clue about what courses there are or aren't and how you get into them.

For example several of my friends did music in college they were only informed by post from the college they were going to have a practical exam in a week. The guidance Councillor didn't realize there were practical exams for music performance.

She didn't even know what instruments the students were playing. Thus she couldn't realize some colleges are better for certain instruments than others.

By the way Trinity is the worst place in Ireland for anything to do with music. Some of the lecturers can't even read music. You can get a degree in Trinity without ever having had to study or play a piece.

Also DIT and the Royal Academy and Maynooth do well respected music degrees. No one seems to know about this though in secondary schools. DIT is best for singers. Royal Academy more for instruments. Maynooth is amazing if music theory is your jam.
Don't EVER go to Trinity for music theory its shocking. They just teach you how to use computers do everything for you. No aural skills. Nothing on classical music. If you want to be a popstar do trinity.

Leg End Reject

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

Sounds like the kid is clued in, Trades still looked down on these days despite a huge lack of skilled workers in industry!

This attitude really became prominent during the celtic tiger era. At the same time people were going berserk that trades people were earning more than them with their degrees, post grads, masters and doctorates.

JustJoe7240

Leg End Reject wrote: »

This attitude really became prominent during the celtic tiger era. At the same time people were going berserk that trades people were earning more than them with their degrees, post grads, masters and doctorates.

They still are, I have mates who served their time and are qualified about 2 years. Earning considerably more than others who graduated the same time.

chrissb8

A glorified memory test that in all actuality does not serve a person well how to actually "think" as it were. Just how to give the opinion/information they want.

Then the ridiculous pressure of the whole thing. I remember my Dad making it the be all and end all of the world. It wasn't really. I know those who did awful at the LC spent a few years finding themselves as people and finally had a more distinct idea of what they wanted to do and get out of life. Went to college and now happily employed.

More than half of my year are all doing something entirely different to what they set out to do after LC. Because they figured that a course in college for the sake of it or because of some weird pressure to do some presitgous course in some prestigous college didn't mean anything if you hated it.

Basically anyone who says the LC are the most important exams or one of the biggest moments in your life are lying. No telling a 17 year old that though when you're in that bubble. Life choices take time and asking a 17/18 year old kid to make such a heavy choice like picking a profession to study for at that age then pressuring them into thinking they want it is wrong to me.

Schools need to do more to develop kids into well rounded people.

Feisar

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Don’t think so.

Pretty sure it is?

Don't they do an random hand pick and decide each year what constitutes each grade?

p1akuw47h5r3it

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a dreadful system, a dreadful approach to preparing people for adulthood, a competition that rewards a certain type of thinker, and punishes others, it should have been overhauled years ago, but im not sure that ll ever happen

Overhauled how, or replaced by what?

fmpisces

Did my Leaving Cert 25 years ago and as much as I loved school, I wouldn't like to be doing the exams again. I don't know if it's any easier today than it was then but the pressure is still there.

Potential-Monke

Berserker wrote: »

What is the career guidance like now?

I believe it's still shocking. My niece, 17, has no idea what she wants to do. When I asked what the guidance counselor said, she said they just threw a load of pamphlets with different courses at her.

The one we had, 95-01, was wrong 100% of the time. Told my best mate, who wasn't great at maths but had an interest in computers, that he should stay away from IT and recommended a trade. Same friend went on to do 4 years of IT in college and is now a co-director of an IT Infrastructure company.

As others have said, it's a 6 year memory test. It needs to be changed from the ground up. Less BS subjects and more life subjects. Bring back Home Ec and teach ****ers how to clean, budget and basically look after themselves at the basic level.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Have to say, I'm pretty bitter about the fact they no longer have to do both English papers on the same day. Missed that by two years. Does the hand even be falling off them these days at all.

ILoveYourVibes

fmpisces wrote: »

I don't know if it's any easier today than it was then but the pressure is still there.

Having done no it isn't. PLC course route etc.

Not sure its a bad thing either.

McDermotX

Little cnuts even get the bad weather for their exams these days.

beertons

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

DIT is best for singers..

I read this as swingers. Had to go over it again.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

Would you prefer to be doing the leaving cert now circa 2019, or when you completed it originally?

It's nearly 40 years since I did it, colleges were much harder to get in to and you had to do the metric as well, the school was very academic a lot of emphasis on passing Irish or foreign languages as you had to have them for university the same with having to pass maths.

It appears to be much easier today but that might just be a perception?

Perception. Hard as ever. Why does a unon like the ASTI have so much clout? Not to make life easier for the students.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

It is on a curve apparently

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/education/that-new-grading-system-not-so-new-anymore-1.3596241%3fmode=amp

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a dreadful system, a dreadful approach to preparing people for adulthood, a competition that rewards a certain type of thinker, and punishes others, it should have been overhauled years ago, but im not sure that ll ever happen

I don’t buy the rote learning drives out creativity arguments that some come out with. I’d leave well enough alone lest we end up like our nearest neighbour.

mr_fegelien

To be honest, though a lot of people are fobbing off the leaving cert cert the fact remains that if you live in a less developed country, "rote learning" exams are required.

If you live somewhere like my country Tanzania, failing the equivalent of the LC is serious business. For most people, it's the only way to get a chance at a decent job not to be on the poverty line, even though it's probably a ****e system

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Feisar wrote: »

Pretty sure it is?

Don't they do an random hand pick and decide each year what constitutes each grade?

The percentage of people getting As would be the same every year in every subject if it were bell curved and I don’t think it is.

Ipso

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I don’t buy the rote learning drives out creativity arguments that some come out with. I’d leave well enough alone lest we end up like our nearest neighbour.

Yeah, I'd also like to hear some of the alternatives.

ILoveYourVibes

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I don’t buy the rote learning drives out creativity arguments that some come out with. I’d leave well enough alone lest we end up like our nearest neighbour.

The uk system has the following issues.

A huge amount of people receive no further education at all after 15/16.

They study a much narrower field of subjects from 13 onwards.

They are a little behind the coursework in Ireland for some subjects. I know someone who went to uni in the uk and said their first year of biology was basically everything she had done in firth and sixth year.

mirrorwall14

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

The percentage of people getting As would be the same every year in every subject if it were bell curved and I don’t think it is.

They remain almost entirely static albeit not all following an exact bell curve

JohnnyFlash

My eldest young fella got his results this week, and his first preference. So I’m happy enough. The exams themselves are certainly easier, especially honours mathematics. You’d hope people don’t struggle in courses like electrical engineering and computer science when they are exposed to entire branches of pretty rudimentary mathematics that seem to have disappeared from the secondary curriculum.

ILoveYourVibes

Bell curves let the student set the standard instead of the teacher.

On harder exams there are fewer A's. It lets us see as society where we are in certain subjects.

Hector Savage

I often have a dream that my leaving is starting in a few weeks and I've done no study ... funny thing is my final year college exams were way way more stressful, but I never dream about them ??

Raconteuse

The dream I have is a combination of the two - leaving cert coming up, screwed for maths and Irish but I might be ok if I do well in those third level English finals the same week.

I don't think anybody who did it 20 years ago would be able for the LC today. Just look at those points. Positive proof that the current generation is the smartest generation ever, like!

Lewis_Benson

I didnt do the leaving cert.
Finished school in the middle of 5th year, went out to work.

I dont think it would have made any difference if I had stayed in school, I hated the place.

mr_fegelien

Lewis_Benson wrote: »

I didnt do the leaving cert.
Finished school in the middle of 5th year, went out to work.

I dont think it would have made any difference if I had stayed in school, I hated the place.

I always here this reiterated "I did piss poor/didn't do my LC at all and I'm perfectly fine now".

I agree it's a bit useless for some but to say it doesn't matter is bull****. The fact is this is confirmation bias. I don't doubt many smart successful people didn't do their school exams but you don't here about those working crappy jobs who dropped out.

They say that your leaving cert maths score is a predictor of how you'll do in college, even in non-STEM subjects like philosophy. Students who get higher maths points do better in all subjects.

Wanderer78

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I always here this reiterated "I did piss poor/didn't do my LC at all and I'm perfectly fine now".

I agree it's a bit useless for some but to say it doesn't matter is bull****. The fact is this is confirmation bias. I don't doubt many smart successful people didn't do their school exams but you don't here about those working crappy jobs who dropped out.

They say that your leaving cert maths score is a predictor of how you'll do in college, even in non-STEM subjects like philosophy. Students who get higher maths points do better in all subjects.

i got an a in pass maths, and an f in pass french!

OneArt

Berserker wrote: »

It's an awful way to prepare young people for their working life. I'm in my 30s now, so the curriculum has changed since I sat my LC. I've a very good memory and head for Mathematics, so I found it easy. Would be very interesting to see how many points I'd get now.

What is the career guidance like now? It was nothing short of abysmal in my day. The teacher calculated the number of points your were going to get and told you the CAO course/s you should apply for based on the number of points you were going to get.

All guidance counselors I've known or heard of seem to be universally terrible at their jobs. Like really ****ing bad. I often wondered how the one at my school was even employed. She was never there half the time and literally didn't know the difference between undergrad and postgrad medicine. We actually had a full on argument about it.

Raconteuse

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I always here this reiterated "I did piss poor/didn't do my LC at all and I'm perfectly fine now".

I agree it's a bit useless for some but to say it doesn't matter is bull****. The fact is this is confirmation bias. I don't doubt many smart successful people didn't do their school exams but you don't here about those working crappy jobs who dropped out.

They say that your leaving cert maths score is a predictor of how you'll do in college, even in non-STEM subjects like philosophy. Students who get higher maths points do better in all subjects.

Yeah, there are exceptions but usually people are better off completing it than not - certainly in the last 25 years. It's college that you don't necessarily need, but it's inadvisable not to complete the leaving.

It's the message to kids that they should study for three or four hours a day that's ridiculous, unless the course they want to do has extremely high points/few places.

ILoveYourVibes

I got a B in honors Irish I cannot speak a word. I guarantee any of you would have better Irish than me.

ixoy

520. It'd have been 545 if they had been giving out those freebie 25 bonus maths points some posters, I imagine, availed of here.