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SAEI Grants have run out...Government don't seem to care...

  • 14-08-2019 6:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭ raspberrypi67


    Well here we go again, another reason why I'm so cynical on the governments approach towards renewable energies and grants.
    SAEI grant money has apparently now run dry and guess what...the Government has no plan to continue....
    What the hell is Richard Bruton ,or whoever is responsible for this area, actually doing....??
    They certainly do seem to be leaving it up to the public to foot the bill for all these hair brained ideas about CO2 emissions.....
    They are completely and utterly a shower of useless contemptuous idiots that only care about their expenses and pensions at the end of the day.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭ Alkers


    Well here we go again, another reason why I'm so cynical on the governments approach towards renewable energies and grants.
    SAEI grant money has apparently now run dry and guess what...the Government has no plan to continue....
    What the hell is Richard Bruton ,or whoever is responsible for this area, actually doing....??
    They certainly do seem to be leaving it up to the public to foot the bill for all these hair brained ideas about CO2 emissions.....
    They are completely and utterly a shower of useless contemptuous idiots that only care about their expenses and pensions at the end of the day.

    This is only for one particular scheme is it not? And a pilot project at that.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Macha


    It's an extremely important scheme if we're to hit our climate targets.

    I've heard rumours they ran out of money back in April but were told to keep accept applications because of the local and European elections and the draft climate plan.

    Seriously damaging to the credibility of SEAI (which OK, already has issues) and shows the weakness of Bruton's position in government that he can't secure funding for this or simple incompetence by him and the department.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ Dudda


    Similar discussion in the Construction Forum near the end of this thread
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057887947


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    It was a terrible grant. How can it be equitable to give a handful of home owners up to €50k subsidy? That's not sustainable. Financially. You can't give a million houses this sort of subsidy. It would cost fifty billion euro :rolleyes:

    The 120 families nationwide that got it must be very happy with this generous gift they got from the tax payer though :D

    Now go spend 5 billion on a massive wind park off shore in the Atlantic that generates more electricity than this country uses...

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Macha


    We seem to find plenty of money to give to the greyhound industry, farmers (on top of CAP) and other ridiculous recipients.

    Retrofitting homes is essential if we're to hit our climate targets. The cost of climate breakdown will far eclipse any investment costs to abate it.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Macha wrote: »
    Retrofitting homes is essential if we're to hit our climate targets. The cost of climate breakdown will far eclipse any investment costs to abate it.

    Not any.

    We have limited resources, it is better to use them for the most efficient ways to tackle climate change. I don't see how spending billions essentially on labour to retrofit older houses is efficient

    The focus should not be on how much energy we use, but on what the source of energy that is. If we can produce so much wind (and trade our surplus with other countries that produce too much sun or nuclear) that we are energy neutral (and zero emissions), it doesn't really matter if we have old leaky houses that use four times the energy that they would do after a retrofit

    I agree with you though that we need to spend a lot of money to try stop escalating climate change. Urgently. Thankfully I get the feeling that this is finally starting to dawn on a lot of people in recent months.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,367 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Macha


    Every single credible decarbonisation strategy has energy efficiency as its #1 measure both in terms of how to reduce emissions and value for money.

    Efficiency absolutely has to be the first consideration. Yes we have to decarbonise our energy supply but that job will be a hell of a lot harder and more expensive the more energy we use.

    We've built loads of crappy uninsulated homes heated using fossil fuels. Those are exactly the buildings we now have to do retrofit as fast as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭ screamer


    Isn’t that the same grant that was part of one of Dermott Bannons renovations last year... they got 40k back on it. Madness that level of grant cannot be sustained, far too much.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Macha wrote: »
    Efficiency absolutely has to be the first consideration.

    Low hanging fruit, sure. But not efficiency at all costs. If it costs €100,000 on a deep fit to reduce the energy consumption of one house by 5MWh per year and it costs €50,000 to increase wind production by 5MWh per year, we should forget about the deep fit and concentrate on wind. Agreed?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭ screamer


    unkel wrote: »
    Low hanging fruit, sure. But not efficiency at all costs. If it costs €100,000 on a deep fit to reduce the energy consumption of one house by 5MWh per year and it costs €50,000 to increase wind production by 5MWh per year, we should forget about the deep fit and concentrate on wind. Agreed?

    Indeed deep retrofit is only farting against the wind......


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,412 ✭✭✭ Charlie-Bravo


    screamer wrote: »
    Indeed deep retrofit is only farting against the wind......

    In a nutshell, this expression sums up the whole scheme with a pun too. Bravo.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭ Suresanders


    These grants were all a cod. Contractors were just adding on the grant money to their prices. I got three companies to look at properly insulating my mother's ceiling.

    First guy is X amount. Says that's the price doesn't do grants. The next two guys say they will do all the grant paperwork etc and get the grant but lo and behold my mother would still end up paying the same amount to them after the grant as the first guy for the same amount of insulation in the attic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Calvin Nutty Crowd


    Heard the seai guy this morning on radio. Wouldn't answer the question as to why they took applications when they knew the money had dried up.

    Filibustering in the extreme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭ rolion


    These grants were all a cod. Contractors were just adding on the grant money to their prices. I got three companies to look at properly insulating my mother's ceiling.

    First guy is X amount. Says that's the price doesn't do grants. The next two guys say they will do all the grant paperwork etc and get the grant but lo and behold my mother would still end up paying the same amount to them after the grant as the first guy for the same amount of insulation in the attic


    Been asked to shell €1,700 inc to install in a single day 7 PV panels,with all my parts.

    Now,they could go and scratch their ass_heads and do some foot work to get business in to pay their fcuking wages and rents,leave aside the gross profits and bonuses / commisions.
    Just out of common sense... greed,greed,greed... fcuk the customer now and today while we can, tomorrow,who knows... grant will be there for us only to cash it in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    I agree they shouldn't have been taken more applications if they were going to shut it down.
    But why were some people going ahead with the work before there applications were approved? It's really on them to be honest.
    e.g. below
    https://twitter.com/ConnorPM/status/1161298309908180993

    Its also SEAI not SAEI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭ Dardania


    I could not agree more with unkel.

    Spending money on going into people's house and doing deep, invasive works is labour intensive and tricky.

    Spending the same money on a ginormous amount of sustainable energy, and fitting panel heaters & storage heaters is a far simpler way to achieve the goal of being carbon neutral. And less manpower resource intensive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,141 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    It was a pilot scheme and demand seemed to have exceeded the funding. Pilots tend to be quite short-lived but ultimately lead to some form of actual schemes. It is also a grant, not something you are automatically entitled to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    gmisk wrote: »
    I agree they shouldn't have been taken more applications if they were going to shut it down.
    But why were some people going ahead with the work before they were given the funding? It's really on them to be honest.

    Lad I work with was caught on this, he was effectively told by the people setting it up (an outside agency that the seai used as far as I can see) that it wouldn’t be a problem it’s sll sorted. The work has to be finished by a certain date end of October I think so he needed to get started. It seems the whole thing was a cluster f*** he was doing work anyway and decided to do extra for the grant and will now have to pay the extra himself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It was a pilot scheme and demand seemed to have exceeded the funding. Pilots tend to be quite short-lived but ultimately lead to some form of actual schemes. It is also a grant, not something you are automatically entitled to.
    Exactly, if your application hasnt been approved dont do the work, then cry about it when its not approved!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    salmocab wrote: »
    Lad I work with was caught on this, he was effectively told by the people setting it up (an outside agency that the seai used as far as I can see) that it wouldn’t be a problem it’s sll sorted. The work has to be finished by a certain date end of October I think so he needed to get started. It seems the whole thing was a cluster f*** he was doing work anyway and decided to do extra for the grant and will now have to pay the extra himself.

    Well then its a case of lesson learned hopefully.
    This scheme was also a pilot so could really be wound up at any time.

    The only money back I got when doing up my house was under that home renovation incentive scheme, I made sure each person doing the work was part of it and had it done well before the scheme was due to come to a close.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ Dudda


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It was a pilot scheme and demand seemed to have exceeded the funding. Pilots tend to be quite short-lived but ultimately lead to some form of actual schemes. It is also a grant, not something you are automatically entitled to.
    Have to agree and highlight this. It was a pilot. Lots of other individual grants like heating control upgrades, attic insulation, solar panels and batteries, external insulation, cavity pumping, internal insulation, BER grant, heat pump grant, etc are all preforming well or at least appear to be. The only system of combining the other grants is you get 100 extra if you do more than three which isn't a massive incentive. This overall deep retrofit grant was a trial run as an alternative.

    I looked into the deep retrofit but it didn't suit me and I've saved a lot of money instead using the external insulation grant and intend in the future to use the heat pump grant.

    You have to follow the rules if you want the money. You can't forge ahead until you're approved with any of the grants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    Dudda wrote: »
    Have to agree and highlight this. It was a pilot. Lots of other individual grants like heating control upgrades, attic insulation, solar panels and batteries, external insulation, cavity pumping, internal insulation, BER grant, heat pump grant, etc are all preforming well or at least appear to be. The only system of combining the other grants is you get 100 extra if you do more than three which isn't a massive incentive. This overall deep retrofit grant was a trial run as an alternative.

    I looked into the deep retrofit but it didn't suit me and I've saved a lot of money instead using the external insulation grant and intend in the future to use the heat pump grant.

    You have to follow the rules if you want the money. You can't forge ahead until you're approved with any of the grants.
    That explains why every house in my road is pretty much having that done!
    I might be tempted myself!
    Did you go with contractor or apply yourself?

    The grant looks good - can I ask roughly how much you had to pay on top?
    Apartment (any) OR Mid-terrace House €2,750
    Semi-detached OR End of terrace €4,500
    Detached house €6,000


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    gmisk wrote: »
    Well then its a case of lesson learned hopefully.
    This scheme was also a pilot so could really be wound up at any time.

    The only money back I got when doing up my house was under that home renovation incentive scheme, I made sure each person doing the work was part of it and had it done well before the scheme was due to come to a close.

    Yeah he was nervous from the start but was also nervous of the deadline. He was going through the agent who assured him it wasn’t a problem but as time went on and nothing was coming back he contacted the seai a few weeks back and they actually told him that the deadline would be extended anyway which sounds now like it was a fib. Obviously I don’t have all the details just what he was saying during tea breaks etc but it sounded real shoddy to me from the start. Applications had to go in in batches of 7 and if one pulled out everyone would be affected.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    salmocab wrote: »
    Yeah he was nervous from the start but was also nervous of the deadline. He was going through the agent who assured him it wasn’t a problem but as time went on and nothing was coming back he contacted the seai a few weeks back and they actually told him that the deadline would be extended anyway which sounds now like it was a fib. Obviously I don’t have all the details just what he was saying during tea breaks etc but it sounded real shoddy to me from the start. Applications had to go in in batches of 7 and if one pulled out everyone would be affected.
    It sounds like a disaster no doubt, the 7 at a time thing sounds utterly bizarre!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    gmisk wrote: »
    It sounds like a disaster no doubt, the 7 at a time thing sounds utterly bizarre!

    Again not positive but I think the 7 brought it up to a certain amount of money that the seai would deal with. So for example 7 looking for 35,000 to 40,000 brings it to somewhere in the region of 250,000 which is where they wanted to deal with. Honestly though I’m not sure as he wasn’t too clear but that’s what I took from it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ Dudda


    gmisk wrote: »
    That explains why every house in my road is pretty much having that done!
    I might be tempted myself!
    Did you go with contractor or apply yourself?

    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/insulation-grants/

    For any grant you have to get it done by a contractor who's on an approved list.
    What I find is as you can only chose from certain contractors they increase their quote.

    I'd expect the people who were getting the deep retrofit grant and were quoted say €100,000 from someone on the list would probably have got a quote for €70-80k from another builder not going the grant process. With me able to do a lot of work myself I could add further savings bringing it back to close to the final cost after the grant. This is why I didn't go the deep retrofit route and instead chose individual grants where I had more control of the overall project.
    I don't think it's a bad thing this trial has ended as serious premiums are added by the approved contractors. It was a trial grant which lessons can be learnt from which was exactly what was intended from a trial grant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,445 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Dudda wrote: »
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/insulation-grants/

    For any grant you have to get it done by a contractor who's on an approved list.
    What I find is as you can only chose from certain contractors they increase their quote.

    I'd expect the people who were getting the deep retrofit grant and were quoted say €100,000 from someone on the list would probably have got a quote for €70-80k from another builder not going the grant process. With me able to do a lot of work myself I could add further savings bringing it back to close to the final cost after the grant. This is why I didn't go the deep retrofit route and instead chose individual grants where I had more control of the overall project.
    I don't think it's a bad thing this trial has ended as serious premiums are added by the approved contractors. It was a trial grant which lessons can be learnt from which was exactly what was intended from a trial grant.

    Don’t think the deep retrofit grant needed to be by an approved contractor, I think there were just certain things that needed to be fulfilled and obviously could be proven after. Air tightness etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ Dudda


    salmocab wrote: »
    Don’t think the deep retrofit grant needed to be by an approved contractor, I think there were just certain things that needed to be fulfilled and obviously could be proven after. Air tightness etc

    True, not an approved contractor for the Deep Retrofit but they do have a list of contractors on their website. It has also grown a lot since I looked into it which could have increased competition and now be giving better value.

    All other grants (or the ones I've used or looked at) have a list of approved contractors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,878 ✭✭✭✭ gmisk


    Dudda wrote: »
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/insulation-grants/

    For any grant you have to get it done by a contractor who's on an approved list.
    What I find is as you can only chose from certain contractors they increase their quote.

    I'd expect the people who were getting the deep retrofit grant and were quoted say €100,000 from someone on the list would probably have got a quote for €70-80k from another builder not going the grant process. With me able to do a lot of work myself I could add further savings bringing it back to close to the final cost after the grant. This is why I didn't go the deep retrofit route and instead chose individual grants where I had more control of the overall project.
    I don't think it's a bad thing this trial has ended as serious premiums are added by the approved contractors. It was a trial grant which lessons can be learnt from which was exactly what was intended from a trial grant.
    Thanks for that will give a shout to the companies on below list and see what they say
    https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-energy-grants/how-to-apply/energy-partners/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭ Wartburg


    As coming from the link to the SEAI Energy partners:
    "Contact one of our registered Energy Partners list below, who will be able to advise you on the measures best suited to your home"

    Is it good or bad when you have to apply for a government funded scheme through private businesses like Kingspan? Who monitors their objectivity "to advise you on the best suited measures to your home"? Usually it´s not in the nature of a global manufacturer in the construction business, to offer someone better solutions than they have in their own range....


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