Why is slow suicide through cigarettes,alcohol,drugs not stigmatized?

mr_fegelien

compared to the immediate suicides (hanging, hooting, jumping)? Intention is probably the answer but still, they do eventually cause premature death in many cases.

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

Maybe cigarette/alcohol deaths are not immediate and are unambiguous compared to immediate suicides. But then, people don't speak ill of someone when they hear a relative died from a heroin overdose compared to other suicide overdoses. What you think?

Ubbquittious

Sure we all know someone who smoked and drank till they were 90

"mr_fegelien

"mr_fegelien wrote: »

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

Seriously. One is recreational, the other borne out of desperation.

mr_fegelien

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

I haven't heard a grown adult call a suicidal person 'selfish' in years.

Instead of calling both groups selfish, how about not judging other people for their own struggles?

Shefwedfan

mr_fegelien wrote: »

(hanging, hooting, jumping)

Is that a new dance move?

SuperSean11

All have negative consequences one is just more apparent, imminent and irrevocable.

Poor Uncle Tom

mr_fegelien wrote: »

compared to the immediate suicides (hanging, hooting, jumping)? Intention is probably the answer but still, they do eventually cause premature death in many cases.

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

Maybe cigarette/alcohol deaths are not immediate and are unambiguous compared to immediate suicides. But then, people don't speak ill of someone when they hear a relative died from a heroin overdose compared to other suicide overdoses. What you think?

Must be lovely to have a perfect life Mr. Fegelien!

A little more pontificating from your pedestal there please,

mad m

My son I’d say is smoking from around the age of 15/16. Found out one day by chance. He was suffering from a few issues I suppose teenagers go through at that age.

He is nearly 21 now and still smokes, he knows it’s not good for him. None of us smoke and it kills us he smokes especially me as I grew up seeing my mother gasp for air at night due to her smoking, hopefully in time he will decide to quit.

Hobosan

It's down to Irish begrudgery.

If you're good at suicide then people will say you were selfish. If you're bad at it, as in 'slow suicide', people will call you a legend or at least sympathise with you.

touts

A young lad was buried yesterday in Clonmel. After some brief discussion of the real reason for his death in national media all the local newspapers, blogs etc referred to his death as "taken Ill at a festival". In reality he took drugs and they killed him. But there seems to be a feeling that "ah sure it is too tough on the family" to say how he really died. Until we start to expose young people to the truth about the lethal consequences of drink, drugs and smoking we mystify them and give credence to the lies being spread by the peddlers of how great these substances are.

freshpopcorn

Well in that case.
I'd say slow suicides would include,
Chocolate, Pizza, Take-away food, crisps, cream, sugar, fizzy drinks, processed foods, etc

Church on Tuesday

mr_fegelien wrote: »

compared to the immediate suicides (hanging, hooting, jumping)? Intention is probably the answer but still, they do eventually cause premature death in many cases.

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

Maybe cigarette/alcohol deaths are not immediate and are unambiguous compared to immediate suicides. But then, people don't speak ill of someone when they hear a relative died from a heroin overdose compared to other suicide overdoses. What you think?

Sure why not throw in a diet of fast food too sure.

All of the above are recreational, that when enjoyed in moderation and isolation are relatively harmless and enjoyable.

You can't equate any of that with the horror and turmoil that is suicide and depression believe me.

mr_fegelien

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Must be lovely to have a perfect life Mr. Fegelien!

A little more pontificating from your pedestal there please,

I think you believe I'm against suicide or alcohol, cigarettes,etc.. I'm not. In fact I've attempted suicide myself many times.

I just always wondered the disconnect. I know someone myself who killed himself by "bugchasing" HIV. Got disowned by family for drugs and then lived for another 4 years before getting seriously ill with pneumonia and dying a year and a half later.

His family came but none of them ever considered it an intentional death despite the fact that he said it was intentional. They're very conservative/religious and the type people who would condemn suicide as the "easy way out".

touts

touts wrote: »

A young lad was buried yesterday in Clonmel. After some brief discussion of the real reason for his death in national media all the local newspapers, blogs etc referred to his death as "taken Ill at a festival". In reality he took drugs and they killed him. But there seems to be a feeling that "ah sure it is too tough on the family" to say how he really died. Until we start to expose young people to the truth about the lethal consequences of drink, drugs and smoking we mystify them and give credence to the lies being spread by the peddlers of how great these substances are.

More people die or are seriously injured in horse-riding accidents than from ecstasy, which seems to be what this guy took.

The fact that nobody else was taken ill from this batch indicates that there may have been some complicating circumstances to do with this individual (eg did he fall asleep in the sun, or did he have some underlying health condition?). The fact that an ecstasy/ MDMA related death makes the national headlines for days should tell you a lot.

If you want to go after a drug that is guaranteed to wreck your life, go after heroin or prescription painkillers. As recreational drugs go, ecstasy/ MDMA is one of the least harmful.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Surely food would be a worthy inclusion on your list, why just drugs?

Ken.

Being healthy is just a slow way of dying.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mr_fegelien wrote: »

compared to the immediate suicides (hanging, hooting, jumping)? Intention is probably the answer but still, they do eventually cause premature death in many cases.

I seldom here someone saying that someone who died of lung cancer at 40 from smoking was selfish compared to when people hear that a 40yr old swallowed a bottle of paracetamol.

Maybe cigarette/alcohol deaths are not immediate and are unambiguous compared to immediate suicides. But then, people don't speak ill of someone when they hear a relative died from a heroin overdose compared to other suicide overdoses. What you think?

How about let’s not call either selfish? A smoker who develops lung cancer has already suffered the worst case scenario. They know they likely caused their cancer. And you know what? Nobody has lived a perfect life. Everyone has a vice or two.

mr_fegelien

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

More people die or are seriously injured in horse-riding accidents than from ecstasy, which seems to be what this guy took.

The fact that nobody else was taken ill from this batch indicates that there may have been some complicating circumstances to do with this individual (eg did he fall asleep in the sun, or did he have some underlying health condition?). The fact that an ecstasy/ MDMA related death makes the national headlines for days should tell you a lot.

If you want to go after a drug that is guaranteed to wreck your life, go after heroin or prescription painkillers. As recreational drugs go, ecstasy/ MDMA is one of the least harmful.

I agree. opiates, benzos, and alcohol seem to be the worst for addiction and the worst for overdose.

ZX7R

Sure from the day your born it's a slow suicide

Heckler

Equating suicide and lifestyle choices is ****ing reprehensible. As are you OP you ****ing twat.

wakka12

1)Most or many people indulge in many of those things from time to time, if not habitually , so some might call that hypocritical.

2)Dont lead to immediate death, or anything even close, try 30-40 years

3)Other factors are important contributors to early death, such as being overweight and not exercising which may have also contributed towards causing the premature heart disease /increased cancer risk and not just the smoking or drinking or drugs

4)Where do you draw the line, is not exercising and eating a lot of unhealthy food also going to be considered slow suicide then? because they have just as big effects on premature death as alcohol and smoking

5)All amounts of smoke, alcohol and drugs increase your chance of early death, no matter what quantity they are consumed in, obviously if intake is small the chances of early death only increase minutely but its an increase none the less. So a few pints a week with mates is considered fine by most yet its still damaging your body very slightly, at what point then do we decide if something is still within the acceptable fun zone vs transitioning to slow suicide?

6) Many people who dont smoke or drink or do drugs still contract diseases youre referring to such as lung disease, how do you know the person in question developed the illness because of their bad habits or it was just bad luck and they would have developed it anyway even if they didnt smoke or drink

Excessive drinking and smoking and damaging hard drugs should absolutely be stigmatized but the suicide analogy does not work. Anyway I disagree completely that those people are not already stigmatized by society, hard core alcoholics and drug addicts are considered the dregs of society and the ostracisation of those groups only makes their ability to recover from their diseases even more difficult

Leg End Reject

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Well in that case.
I'd say slow suicides would include,
Chocolate, Pizza, Take-away food, crisps, cream, sugar, fizzy drinks, processed foods, etc

And breathing.

Don't see the point of being 100 and not having a bit of craic on the journey. There's an eternity of abstinence ahead when you're dead.

biko

mr_fegelien wrote: »

compared to the immediate suicides (hanging, hooting, jumping)? Intention is probably the answer but still, they do eventually cause premature death in many cases.

What you think?

This is nothing compared to the intentional slow suicide you are committing over years of not eating healthy

Gregor Samsa

Suicide is the act of intentionally taking your own life.

Smokers, drinkers, drug users, fast food eaters, chocoholics, scuba divers, horse riders, pedestrians, ladder climbers, selfie takers: they don’t generally do these things to take their own life. They do them as part of living, and they take the chance that they won’t fall foul of the risks. Some actions cary higher risks than others. Some get lucky, some don’t.

As an example: if you jump off a cliff with the intention of killing yourself, and you die, it’s suicide. If you jump off the same cliff because you think it looks like great craic, and you don’t realise that hitting water from a height is like slamming into concrete, and you die, it’s not suicide.

The whole point of suicide is the intention.

It’s a bit strange that this obvious difference has to be pointed out to someone who claims to have attempted suicide “many times”, but there you go.

One eyed Jack

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What you think?

I think you’re making a complete balls of the english language, as if there wasn’t enough people at that kind of crap already.

Please stop.

pinkyeye

I don't generally tend to condemn anyone for the way they die. Why would you? They're dead.

ToddyDoody

I was listening to an archive recording today of Gerry Ryan recounting a story involving Vincent Hanley, Phil Lynott and Rory Gallagher.

That involved four wikipedia searches where the first thing you were looking for was the 'cause of death' section. Really chilling that this be the case. Was it that they all, in a way, refused to grow up?

BalcombeSt4

Because there's no proof drugs do cause a faster death. In many cases Opiates like Morphine or Hydromorphone let people serious diseases live pain free & normal as possible lives.

Even for for recreational use, no proof drug use causes premature death when taken in moderation.

Wibbs

Heckler wrote: »

Equating suicide and lifestyle choices is ****ing reprehensible. As are you OP you ****ing twat.

Succinct and to the point H. And I'm right there behind you Sir.

Graces7

touts wrote: »

A young lad was buried yesterday in Clonmel. After some brief discussion of the real reason for his death in national media all the local newspapers, blogs etc referred to his death as "taken Ill at a festival". In reality he took drugs and they killed him. But there seems to be a feeling that "ah sure it is too tough on the family" to say how he really died. Until we start to expose young people to the truth about the lethal consequences of drink, drugs and smoking we mystify them and give credence to the lies being spread by the peddlers of how great these substances are.

That is was due to a "substance he ingested " was mentioned but nothing more,

another death in the news today, an Irish lad in the Us dead of alcohol poisoning. This time his mother is pleading with youngsters to be aware when celebrating exam results as he was. .( sorry; on an ancient laptop and cannot quote sites) Such a waste of young life

Feisar

Are those of us not out exercising for an hour a day not guilty of the same?

Graces7

BalcombeSt4 wrote: »

Because there's no proof drugs do cause a faster death. In many cases Opiates like Morphine or Hydromorphone let people serious diseases live pain free & normal as possible lives.

Even for for recreational use, no proof drug use causes premature death when taken in moderation.

Agree re pain relief; good pain relief on opiates will actually prolong life as well as make it more enjoyable. No virtue in being in too much pain to stay active. When mine was cut down due to the codeine hysteria, I lost about 80 % of my mobility which even though back on opiates I will never regain.

riclad

When i was a school there was zero education re diet or drugs,young people think they will live forever,
ah sure smoking is fine ,it won,t effect me,
by the time you realise it might be bad for you, you are addicted to it.
Also you can take a break from work to have a smoke outside.
We spend 100,s of hours learning irish, a language we do not speak,
the only job you get from irish is working for rte or tg4.
So it basically a useless qualification .
you wont get a job in facebook or aib because you got a b in leaving cert irish.
There should be a class in healthin secondary school ,eg drugs are dangerous,
the effect of using cocaine, e etc
The effect of long term smoking .
Its really hard to give up smoking once you start .