Should I complain about my neighbour's advances?

kikilarue2

Some of you might have seen a thread I posted about this in AH the other day. This thread is specifically about what I should do from an accomm point of view.

On Friday, my neighbour - a married man twice my age who lives next door and doesn't speak much English - invented an excuse to come into my apartment and then tried to kiss me.

We live in a house divided into apartments and he lives next door with his wife. We share a common area out the back and they come out there regularly to smoke.

He knocked on my back door on Friday and claimed to be locked out. This didn't make sense as the back doors don't lock automatically, he would have needed his key to lock it in which case he could get back in. But he's well into his 60s (or more) and I could tell he had a few drinks on him so I took it he was confused and let him into the house through my apartment.

I tried to usher him through as quickly as possible to the hallway where his own apartment is but he was taking his time, commenting on my stuff - and then went for the lunge at the door.

My housemate had left for a weekend away an hour previously and it's likely he saw him going with his weekend bag and knew that I was alone. The fact that he then made up an excuse to get into my apartment and made a pass at me makes me really uncomfortable and also angry. It seems quite calculated.

Anyway, I pushed him away and slammed the door in his face.

Now I don't know what to do next. I'd like to make a complaint about his behaviour to the property agency.

Here's the main problem: I got a puppy a few months ago and didn't tell the agency, which is breaking my lease. He knows this. The pup is a small breed, well behaved, friendly and house-trained - but I doubt any of that would matter much to the agency.

I met the man again today and he tried to talk to me and I lost it a bit - I just felt overwhelmed with anger that he had made me feel unsafe in my own home. So in a loud voice I said "No. Don't talk to me. Don't look at me. Don't come near me." And he just said "Okay" then I walked past.

I'm scared he'll use the fact that I got the puppy to try and get them to evict me.

I know I shouldn't have her, but she's not doing anyone any harm.

I don't feel like I should let what he did go in case something more serious happens in the future and I can't refer back to it because I never told them.

I also think if I tell them what he did in the first instance, him telling them about the pup will just look like a petty attempt to get back at me (which is what it would be). They might be fine with it, at least two staff members already know I have her and have turned a blind eye. We had biannual inspections a couple of weeks ago and I took her out for the day and hid her stuff, they didn't notice anything amiss.

Anyway, that was quite the ramble - i apologise but I haven't been able to talk this through properly with anyof my friends yet so I needed to get all my thoughts out somewhere.

eoghan104

What's the question? Complain to who?

He tried to kiss you, you said no and he F'ed off. What's the panic?

kikilarue2

eoghan104 wrote: »

What's the question? Complain to who?

He tried to kiss you, you said no and he F'ed off. What's the panic?

The panic is that a drunk man twice my age waited until he knew I was alone and then invented a pretext to come into my apartment and try it on with me.

That makes me feel uncomfortable and intimidated.

Rubberchikken

what you said he did to you could be constituted as assault im guessing. it far outweighs having a puppy in an apartment.

you might be overthinking the whole thing re him and telling about pup.
ignore him for the time being.
but i would tell at least one dependable person what you outlined to us just in case.

Steve

So both of you are in breach of your tenancy is what you are saying?

Call the guards if you need to report a sexual assault. That's not the landlords fault.

Graham

Mod Note

Moving this thread to Personal Issues, please note new forum charter applies.

Fakediamond

I wouldn’t report it yet, it could cause more problems and you’ll have to move.

Never let him into your apartment again, no matter what excuse he has. Continue to be loud and clear in your communication with him, I’d say he may already have got the message and realise he can’t get away with his bad behaviour.

Be security conscious when entering and leaving the apartment to ensure he’s not in the vicinity.

Baron Kurtz

Does someone mind the dog when you head off to work?

B0jangles

It's hard to know what to say - it does sound like he knew he'd be able to get away with doing what he did because you'd be afraid to complain, and risk losing your home or your dog.

I can absolutely understand why you'd feel so uncomfortable about being alone in your own home, and so angry about being made feel like that. Does his wife speak any english? If he tries to speak to you again, maybe tell him in as simple english as possible that if he even speaks to you again you'll tell his wife what he did. That might make him a lot more uncomfortable than telling the property agency.

kikilarue2

Baron Kurtz wrote: »

Does someone mind the dog when you head off to work?

I’m a freelancer, I work from home - the dog is with me all day.

kikilarue2

B0jangles wrote: »

It's hard to know what to say - it does sound like he knew he'd be able to get away with doing what he did because you'd be afraid to complain, and risk losing your home or your dog.

I can absolutely understand why you'd feel so uncomfortable about being alone in your own home, and so angry about being made feel like that. Does his wife speak any english? If he tries to speak to you again, maybe tell him in as simple english as possible that if he even speaks to you again you'll tell his wife what he did. That might make him a lot more uncomfortable than telling the property agency.

Yeah. I had a chat with my Mam about it last night and she said wait and see. I’m going to give it until Friday. If he’s staying out of my way by then I’ll let it go.

Why would you complain to the property agency?
If you feel you have been assaulted, then complain to the Gardai.
If you feel he took advantage but don't feel assaulted, tell his wife.
I'm not sure what the property agency would have to do with any of this

kikilarue2

bubblypop wrote: »

Why would you complain to the property agency?
If you feel you have been assaulted, then complain to the Gardai.
If you feel he took advantage but don't feel assaulted, tell his wife.
I'm not sure what the property agency would have to do with any of this

It’s a fairly normal thing to do I would have thought to complain about any kind of inappropriate behaviour from a neighbour?

Basically, if anything like this happens again I definitely will be calling the gardai and want him gone out of there, but if I say “this isn’t the first time this has happened”, they’ll say “well you never mentioned anything before.”

I don't know, it's not something that would even enter my head. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see what it has to do with them really.
Maybe it is something that is done.
Like I said I'd be more inclined to tell the wife or Gardai depending on how I felt about it.

( I'm not saying you shouldn't OP, not saying you are wrong)

ILoveYourVibes

kikilarue2 wrote: »

It’s a fairly normal thing to do I would have thought to complain about any kind of inappropriate behaviour from a neighbour?

No its not. Its not the agencies responsibility nor your landlords or his landlords.

They would be very reluctant perhaps to engage with you because from my point of view it would be admitting to liability. I know for a fact we have had tenants that must have been a nightmare to live beside.


They won't do anything. They won't want to get involved. They will want you to call the guards if you feel you should.

As for him saying anything about the dog etc. Well you did put yourself in that position.

If you make a statement to the guards now if it happens again they won't ask you why you didn't say anything later.

skallywag

To be honest with you I would leave it for a few days and see how things pan out, i.e. does he take your no as definitely meaning no, or does he keep pestering you.

You say he approached you again afterwards, how did he see then? Apologetic/Embarrassed, or more menacing? If it really is a once off then I would be inclined to leave it go. I am not sure what interest the property agency or the guards for that matter would have in a drunken pass from a neighbor, if there ends up being no more to it, and he does not do anything to make you feel uncomfortable again in the future.

On an aside, the puppy situation would have me a little worried in general though, asit could be used against you (though not necessarily by this lad) if a neighbour did ever have an axe to grind.

strandroad

It's not a letting agency matter at all, why do you think it would be? It's a Garda matter if you want to report it. The Gardai won't care about your puppy...

Personally I would report, not that I'd expect them to do anything for the moment since it's on the low end of the scale, but I would like it to be on the record in case he tries again or tries it with someone else.

kikilarue2

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to give the property company a call in the morning anyway (washing machine is playing up) so I might mention it informally then.

I don’t actually expect them take any action; I just want them to know it happened in case it happens again and I need to make a more formal complaint.

strandroad

kikilarue2 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys.

I have to give the property company a call in the morning anyway (washing machine is playing up) so I might mention it informally then.

I don’t actually expect them take any action; I just want them to know it happened in case it happens again and I need to make a more formal complaint.

But why? It has nothing to do with the property company, they can't stop him should it escalate to a fullblown assault for example. It's not that he is playing music too loud or has a leaking washing machine.

He entered your home under false pretenses and committed a low grade sexual assault on you. This is a matter for the Gardai if you want to report it, the agency has nothing to do with it, they will not record it, why do you expect them to?

RossieMan

strandroad wrote:

He entered your home under false pretenses and committed a low grade sexual assault on you. This is a matter for the Gardai if you want to report it, the agency has nothing to do with it, they will not record it, why do you expect them to?

Have you read the threads? The OP has disregarded every bit of advice received in 2 threads.

Complete waste of time.

kikilarue2

RossieMan wrote: »

Have you read the threads? The OP has disregarded every bit of advice received in 2 threads.

Complete waste of time.

That's not true at all.

I have listened to everyone's advice and implemented a lot of it.

kikilarue2

strandroad wrote: »

But why? It has nothing to do with the property company, they can't stop him should it escalate to a fullblown assault for example. It's not that he is playing music too loud or has a leaking washing machine.

He entered your home under false pretenses and committed a low grade sexual assault on you. This is a matter for the Gardai if you want to report it, the agency has nothing to do with it, they will not record it, why do you expect them to?

I rang the Gardai on Saturday on the advice of some posters in AH and they were very helpful but I decided not to make a formal complaint because I'm not sure it warrants that level of response.

I love my apartment and I would hate to have to leave it - if anything like this were to happen again, I would want this man evicted from the building. That's why I feel I should let them know.

strandroad

kikilarue2 wrote: »

I rang the Gardai on Saturday on the advice of some posters in AH and they were very helpful but I decided not to make a formal complaint because I'm not sure it warrants that level of response.

I love my apartment and I would hate to have to leave it - if anything like this were to happen again, I would want this man evicted from the building. That's why I feel I should let them know.

He would not be evicted based on your word alone (and for good reason, imagine hostile neighbours reporting people they don't get along with for nonexistent crimes). I don't think you can even evict a criminal or his family either.

Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with the company, and everything to do with the Gardai. If you want to feel safe, and I completely understand it, they need to give him a warning and so you need to make a complaint.

kikilarue2

strandroad wrote: »

He would not be evicted based on your word alone (and for good reason, imagine hostile neighbours reporting people they don't get along with for nonexistent crimes). I don't think you can even evict a criminal or his family either.

Your problem has absolutely nothing to do with the company, and everything to do with the Gardai. If you want to feel safe, and I completely understand it, they need to give him a warning and so you need to make a complaint.

Surely harassing another tenant is grounds for eviction?

I know it would be my word against his, but I've lived there a lot longer and I've never made so much as a noise complaint about anyone - I think they would find me credible. I have no reason to make up stories.

I'll think about what you said about the Gardai. It's definitely worth considering, I just don't know if escalating the situation is the best course.

strandroad

kikilarue2 wrote: »

Surely harassing another tenant is grounds for eviction?

No, persistent antisocial behaviour is, such as drug fueled parties or threats, which is very hard to prove at the best of times, with witnesses and recordings. No chance any property company would expose themselves by evicting someone based on nothing but their neighbour's word (to which your neighbour will say "I only locked myself out, she imagined the rest"). They could be sued.

You need to protect yourself with a formal complaint.

Pawwed Rig

Did I miss something here? The man made a move on the OP, was rejected and left it at that.

Why are the Gardai being mentioned? Why is a complaint being contemplated?

If she was receptive to the move would it still be a garda matter?

strandroad

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Did I miss something here? The man made a move on the OP, was rejected and left it at that.

Why are the Gardai being mentioned? Why is a complaint being contemplated?

If she was receptive to the move would it still be a garda matter?

It's not a house party misunderstanding situation, which could be laughed off; he entered her home based on a lie in order to try it on with her. He might return, or do it to someone else in their home. I would certainly report it.

Zen65

kikilarue2 wrote: »

Surely harassing another tenant is grounds for eviction?

I'm sure you found the event to be troubling, and that's understandable. It was a clumsy, unwelcome advance, one for which he received a prompt rejection. From what I read here, he has not done anything else untoward. He possibly feels embarrassed and vulnerable (in case you'd speak to his wife). You've made no mention of him making threats, intimidation, aggression, nor any attempt to repeat the advance. That does not meet any definition of harassment.

kikilarue2

Zen65 wrote: »

kikilarue2 wrote: »

Surely harassing another tenant is grounds for eviction?

I'm sure you found the event to be troubling, and that's understandable. It was a clumsy, unwelcome advance, one for which he received a prompt rejection. From what I read here, he has not done anything else untoward. He possibly feels embarrassed and vulnerable (in case you'd speak to his wife). You've made no mention of him making threats, intimidation, aggression, nor any attempt to repeat the advance. That does not meet any definition of harassment.

To be clear, what I was saying above was that I’d consider it harassment if it ever happened again.

And it wasn’t just an unwelcome advance; it’s the fact that he first waited until my housemate left and lied his way into my home.

kikilarue2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Did I miss something here? The man made a move on the OP, was rejected and left it at that.

Why are the Gardai being mentioned? Why is a complaint being contemplated?

If she was receptive to the move would it still be a garda matter?

No, because if I was receptive to the move I would have invited him in rather than him lying his way in and I would have made it clear that I was interested in him.

It’s called consent.

When I spoke to the Garda she did say I would be well within my rights to make a complaint based on what happened.

On the tenancy issue, they’ve only been living there for about three months so I think the agency wouldn’t have too hard a time to get rid of them.

Pawwed Rig

strandroad wrote: »

It's not a house party misunderstanding situation, which could be laughed off; he entered her home based on a lie in order to try it on with her. He might return, or do it to someone else in their home. I would certainly report it.

He entered the home at the invitation of the OP who could have said No. It was a ham fisted probably inadvised advance but to think it is criminal is absurd. If a poor advance is considered a crime now then most of the men in the world are guilty.

strandroad wrote: »

He might return, or do it to someone else in their home.

This is just hysteria based on nothing. Nothing the OP has said would suggest that this is likely to happen.

RossieMan

kikilarue2 wrote:

On the tenancy issue, they’ve only been living there for about three months so I think the agency wouldn’t have too hard a time to get rid of them.

You've absolutely no grounds to get this family kicked out of their home.

leggo

It’s mad that there are people defending his behaviour...have you tried similar yourselves or something?! Why are you trying to downplay this as normal or acceptable?!! That’s mental!

The chap saw that she was alone and made up a lie to try and get into her apartment, where he made an unwanted sexual advance on her without even a modicum of consent. That’s not a ham-fisted attempt to seduce her, if he’d knocked on her door and asked for some sugar then maybe because she’d at least have a say in the matter. That’s a failed attempt to force himself on her. He’s trying to deceive and literally take advantage of her: he saw an advantage in her housemate being away, saw an advantage in her better nature being inclined to help him, and he took it instead of making an honest advance and giving her the opportunity to say no. It’s super creepy and and, yes, there is the concern that he’s doing/done it to others because now we know for a fact it’s something he does.

I’d log it with the Gardaí OP. Tell them you just want to report it and have it on file just in case, but not follow up because of the sensitive situation living next door and you currently don’t feel threatened as you’ve drawn boundaries. They’ll likely do just that and be happy they don’t have to do anything more. If you ever need to, you can use it against him, which keeps your leverage in ensuring he doesn’t run to the letting agents about your dog. You’ve got that and the threat of telling his wife over him so you can rest easy then. Win win.

kikilarue2

RossieMan wrote: »

kikilarue2 wrote:

On the tenancy issue, they’ve only been living there for about three months so I think the agency wouldn’t have too hard a time to get rid of them.

You've absolutely no grounds to get this family kicked out of their home.

He entered my home under false pretenses and made me feel unsafe.

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion on this, but I don’t think you’d feel this way if he did it to your daughter. My mother is livid that he would behave this way.

First you said I was making this up, now you’re following me around criticising every aspect of my reaction to this situation.

You know you have the option to unfollow, right?

kikilarue2

leggo wrote: »

It’s mad that there are people defending his behaviour...have you tried similar yourselves or something?! Why are you trying to downplay this as normal or acceptable?!! That’s mental!

The chap saw that she was alone and made up a lie to try and get into her apartment, where he made an unwanted sexual advance on her without even a modicum of consent. That’s not a ham-fisted attempt to seduce her, if he’d knocked on her door and asked for some sugar then maybe because she’d at least have a say in the matter. That’s a failed attempt to force himself on her. He’s trying to deceive and literally take advantage of her: he saw an advantage in her housemate being away, saw an advantage in her better nature being inclined to help him, and he took it instead of making an honest advance and giving her the opportunity to say no. It’s super creepy and and, yes, there is the concern that he’s doing/done it to others because now we know for a fact it’s something he does.

I’d log it with the Gardaí OP. Tell them you just want to report it and have it on file just in case, but not follow up because of the sensitive situation living next door and you currently don’t feel threatened as you’ve drawn boundaries. They’ll likely do just that and be happy they don’t have to do anything more. If you ever need to, you can use it against him, which keeps your leverage in ensuring he doesn’t run to the letting agents about your dog. You’ve got that and the threat of telling his wife over him so you can rest easy then. Win win.

Thank you. I think I’ll do exactly that, if the Gardai are amenable to taking a statement without a formal complaint.

RossieMan

kikilarue2 wrote:

First you said I was making this up, now you’re following me around criticising every aspect of my reaction to this situation.

You've been given advice. Report it to the gardai. They are who your complaint is with.

I definitely don't condone the guys behaviour, sounds appalling. But you've been milking this for 2 threads now. It's all been discussed.

kikilarue2

RossieMan wrote: »

kikilarue2 wrote:

First you said I was making this up, now you’re following me around criticising every aspect of my reaction to this situation.

You've been given advice. Report it to the gardai. They are who your complaint is with.

I definitely don't condone the guys behaviour, sounds appalling. But you've been milking this for 2 threads now. It's all been discussed.

What business is it of yours if I start 10 threads on it, seriously? No one is forcing you to read them.

Calltocall

OP you should report this to guards, if they have words with him he won’t bother you again, he should be at least cautioned his actions are way beyond the norm that’s just my opinion.

rondog

People saying this is an assault.How?
He made an advance and you refused.

I cant see how that constitutes an assault.

Jees,the world has gone crazy,soon winking at someone will be a sexual assault.

kikilarue2

rondog wrote: »

People saying this is an assault.How?
He made an advance and you refused.

I cant see how that constitutes an assault.

Jees,the world has gone crazy,soon winking at someone will be a sexual assault.

He didn’t just make an advance.

He waited until I was alone and then made up a false pretext to gain entry into my apartment.

Then he put his hands on me and tried to kiss me.

How far would it have to go before you’d call it assault?

skallywag

The fact that he conned his way into the OP's home and then tried it on does indeed have a disturbing ring to it.

I would not myself class this as an assault though, nor do I see how it warrants a call to the guards. If he had previous form, if he had not backed off immediately, or if he had tried it on again, then yes, most certainly. But not based alone on the evidence that that OP has presented here. I had a neighbour once who did something very disturbing and out of character, but it was an isolated incident which did not repeat itself. It made me wary for the future, and rightly so, but there is no way I would thought about calling the guards.

As for mentioning it to the company who manage the property, I really cannot see the logic there whatsoever.

OP, I get the feeling somehow what there might have been some past history here perhaps? Did you perhaps have him in the 'creep' category even before this? Something about the way you describe him gives me the impression that you did not think very highly of him even before all this.

B0jangles

The OP barely knows this person - he tricked her into giving him brief access to her home and he used the opportunity to assault her.

This is not miscommunication/crossed wires/metoo gone MAAAAD - its incredibly creepy and I think the OP is absolutely right to report it to the guards and make it 1000% clear to this guy that she wants absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with him in future.

I'm honestly shocked by some of the posters that think this is trivial or that the OP is overreacting.

kikilarue2

There’s no history but they only moved in about three months ago - if he gets handsy when he’s drunk I want it recorded from the beginning.

Am I supposed to wait until it’s a more serious incident before I do something about it.

If this is an isolated incident, it’ll be let go and he’ll hear no more about it. If it happens again, I can contact the Gardai immediately and they’ll know that it happened before.

skallywag

kikilarue2 wrote: »

If this is an isolated incident, it’ll be let go and he’ll hear no more about it. If it happens again, I can contact the Gardai immediately and they’ll know that it happened before.

I think that is a sensible way to approach it, for sure if anything even remotely similar was to happen again I would also be acting on it.

Re contacting the guards in the future though, I would imagine that unless you made a formal complaint (which I do not think you did?) then they will not read it in such a way that there was past form. If you really want to have that on record then you should indeed make a formal complaint right now.

wiggle16

Kiki the long and short of it is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the landlord, the property management company or anyone else for that matter. It's for all intents and purposes a private matter between you and this pest of a neighbour, unless you involve the guards.

The dog is a matter for you and the landlord. There's no overlap between these two things.

If you feel threatened by this man, tell the guards he's harassing you. If he does it again, tell the guards and his wife he's harassing you.

wiggle16

RossieMan wrote: »

You've been given advice. Report it to the gardai. They are who your complaint is with.

I definitely don't condone the guys behaviour, sounds appalling. But you've been milking this for 2 threads now. It's all been discussed.

Mod note:

If you have a problem with a thread, report it. Please don't challenge the OP in the thread.

wiggle16

Mod note:

Finally got a chance to have a proper look - I didn't realise your other threads were still active.

You can't have two threads active on the one issue at the same time in different forums.

Thread closed.