Jet Boats and the Law

Van Doozy

Wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

Aluminium Jet boating is popular in New Zealand in really shallow rivers. The boats themselves are designed to travel in extremely shallow water, including over stones and rapids.

What would be the law with regard to doing this in Ireland? i have googled it and there is really limited information available online. I think it's not well understood here. For example, I found a thread from a while back which asked the same question, and the answer pointed the OP towards the Waterways Ireland website. As a new user I can't post a URL so if you want to read the response you'll have to google it!!

Anyway the TLDR version of the response is that basically Waterways Ireland's take on jet boating is basicaly a stock response - that the navigations of Ireland are free for all to enjoy responsibly, once you stick to the rules and are considerate of other waterways users.

Here's the thing - an aluminium jet boat will easily travel up rivers which are deemed totally un-navigable for conventional boats, meaning that these rivers may not come under the remit of Waterways Ireland.

So while one could easily and legally jet boat on the Shannon or the Erne within the rules - where would the WI stand if someone decided to blast up through Enniscorthy or Kilcullen or the surrounding countryside? Something I would imagine not many people have done before.

i really like the idea of jet boating but would not be too keen on breaking the law, or causing unnecessary upset to anyone! I would love to hear an opinion from anyone who might be more familiar with how the rules are for heretofore un-navigable rivers.

Any thoughts appreciated.

pH

Have a read here:
https://www.canoe.ie/water-access/

(it's for canoes but the legal aspects of 'access to a river for navigation' are the same)

The 2 major public rights owners in Ireland and Waterways Ireland and the ESB, apart from that the river is owned by the landowners on either side and they may or may not control access to it (especially if the river has good trout or salmon fishing) or may even have sold the rights to a third party.

In general on the river sections of the shannon and the Erne, being respectful of other users (kayakers, swimmers, slower boats, sailing dinghies etc.) is the norm, and for example things like jet-skis are best kept to lakes and wider sections of the rivers.

Even on the shannon/erne there are many tributaries and lakes that are 'unnavigable' for example the River Rinn below the marina up to Lough Rynn which would be easy to get to, but as you can see from the link you don't have an automatic right in Ireland to navigate a river, and you also have the question of land access for launching and recovering the jet boat for more remote rivers.

For example (from the link)

Delphi Fisheries own the riparian rights on both sides of the Bundorragh River from Delphi Bridge down river and as such have a legal right to prevent trespass on the section of river it owns. It exercises this right during the fishing and spawning seasons but chooses to allow canoeists use the river at other times of the year. It is assumed the same applies to the Caragh and Erriff. You cannot trespass on a river is requested not to by its owner. If you persist in trespassing after being requested not to by the owner or their agent you are breaking the law.

Even though they allow canoeists, whether they would want you tearing up it in a jet-boat is another question!

Traveling at high speeds up narrow shallow rivers seems to be something that you could only do on a section of a river you knew well, which would mean repeated visits to the same river, which wasn't being used by fishermen or anyone else at the time. I am pretty sure that you'd need to get explicit permission from the landowners for this, as well as negotiate access to launch and recover.

Tabnabs

The difference with NZ is the rivers are located in rocky gorges. Try this on an Irish river with soft earth/clay/mud banks and you'll be met with an angry posse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzhAMscTxyc

Van Doozy

Thanks for the reply pH.

Tabnabs wrote: »

The difference with NZ is the rivers are located in rocky gorges. Try this on an Irish river with soft earth/clay/mud banks and you'll be met with an angry posse.

I am not sure I agree with you re the soft earth banks Tabnabs. While it's true that a lot of the NZ rivers are in rocky gorges have a look at the below from the start - that could easily be a river in Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_HMh3RSJQA

Van Doozy

That's an interesting link pH - I learned about riparian rights of navigation today!

From the perspective of the canoeist, it does not matter where you get on the river. Once you enter into private property you enter private property and if on a particular river, the land on both sides is owned by the same individual, then that individual has the right to stop you canoeing down that section of river in the same way as that owner has the right to stop people walking across their fields. A landowner who only owns the land on one side of the river cannot really stop canoeing down the river except with the co-operation of the land owner on the other side.

That's interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but it would appear that if you have permission to access the river to launch your boat, nobody can really stop you using it, unless they own the land on both sides, and even then all they can do really is tell you to feck off.

fergal.b

We would also have a lot more wildlife on our river banks like fishermen and nesting birds that would not be happy with a boat like this passing by, then there is the no wake zones and 5 mph speed limit in quite a few areas, you would be better off running in open water or build your own private track.







.

10pennymixup

Van Doozy wrote: »

That's an interesting link pH - I learned about riparian rights of navigation today!

From the perspective of the canoeist, it does not matter where you get on the river. Once you enter into private property you enter private property and if on a particular river, the land on both sides is owned by the same individual, then that individual has the right to stop you canoeing down that section of river in the same way as that owner has the right to stop people walking across their fields. A landowner who only owns the land on one side of the river cannot really stop canoeing down the river except with the co-operation of the land owner on the other side.

That's interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but it would appear that if you have permission to access the river to launch your boat, nobody can really stop you using it, unless they own the land on both sides, and even then all they can do really is tell you to feck off.

But it's how they might say feck off, that could be a problem.

pedroeibar1

Van Doozy wrote: »

That's an interesting link pH - I learned about riparian rights of navigation today!........That's interesting. Correct me if I am wrong but it would appear that if you have permission to access the river to launch your boat, nobody can really stop you using it, unless they own the land on both sides, and even then all they can do really is tell you to feck off.

Only fish have 'riparian rights of navigation'. Ownership of adjacent land does not necessarily govern ownership of ‘Sporting Rights’ on land or river, as those rights might be held separately to the land, sold on or leased. Owners of those rights find enforcement of trespass through the courts to be most tiresome. In my experience anyone leaving a car and dog trailer without permission on or adjacent to preserved lands will return to find several flat tyres. I've even heard of repeat offenders having tyres slashed.

I wouldn’t go the aluminium boat route. What you really need is a jetski, preferably one with a loud or no silencer, one with a big FO engine that throws a plume of water 10 m into the air above it (don’t know what that’s for, but most owners think it looks cool!). Then find a place to use it, like Killiney or Scotsman’s Bay (if you are in Dublin), where there are lots of fun things to do. Most jetski users there have great craic chasing guillemots and seeing how close they can get before the birds dive. When you get tired of that you can get close to the beach – go inside those yellow buoy thingys, they are range indicators, if you’re outside them you cannot be seen properly, so make sure you are inside them. There you can put on a little demonstration to show off your skills, the watchers will be thrilled by the noise and entertainment. When you get tired of that look around to see if there are any yachts about – if you find a few, buzz them, they will be impressed and admire your seamanship skills as you closely whizz by. Kids out rowing also really appreciate jetskis, the nearer you go to them the more thrilled they are as the bigger wash makes rowing more challenging. Sadly most jetski owners are loners, they rarely have friends to share with and demonstrate their prowess to. If lucky enough to have a friend you can take turns watching each other do the marine equivalent of donuts, after a while making waves for each other to try to ‘jump’, etc.

Not advising it, just sayin’..

Van Doozy

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

Only fish have 'riparian rights of navigation'. Ownership of adjacent land does not necessarily govern ownership of ‘Sporting Rights’ on land or river, as those rights might be held separately to the land, sold on or leased. Owners of those rights find enforcement of trespass through the courts to be most tiresome. In my experience anyone leaving a car and dog trailer without permission on or adjacent to preserved lands will return to find several flat tyres. I've even heard of repeat offenders having tyres slashed.

I wouldn’t go the aluminium boat route. What you really need is a jetski, preferably one with a loud or no silencer, one with a big FO engine that throws a plume of water 10 m into the air above it (don’t know what that’s for, but most owners think it looks cool!). Then find a place to use it, like Killiney or Scotsman’s Bay (if you are in Dublin), where there are lots of fun things to do. Most jetski users there have great craic chasing guillemots and seeing how close they can get before the birds dive. When you get tired of that you can get close to the beach – go inside those yellow buoy thingys, they are range indicators, if you’re outside them you cannot be seen properly, so make sure you are inside them. There you can put on a little demonstration to show off your skills, the watchers will be thrilled by the noise and entertainment. When you get tired of that look around to see if there are any yachts about – if you find a few, buzz them, they will be impressed and admire your seamanship skills as you closely whizz by. Kids out rowing also really appreciate jetskis, the nearer you go to them the more thrilled they are as the bigger wash makes rowing more challenging. Sadly most jetski owners are loners, they rarely have friends to share with and demonstrate their prowess to. If lucky enough to have a friend you can take turns watching each other do the marine equivalent of donuts, after a while making waves for each other to try to ‘jump’, etc.

Not advising it, just sayin’..

That sounds awesome, thanks for taking the time to type it all out!

deaglan1

Have you ever noticed the barbed wire set across many smaller rivers/streams? That is the owner exercising his riparian rights...the non-vocal big F... Off if he is not around to provide the audible version.