All "settled" residents should lose rights to object to Traveller accommodation...

Kermit.de.frog

...in their area according to a govt review panel

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/settled-residents-should-lose-right-to-object-to-traveller-accommodation-experts-say-1.3965165

Settled residents should lose the right to object to Traveller accommodation and council chiefs should be “encouraged” to use emergency powers to force through Traveller housing plans.

Why would people object to Travellers being housed in their area?

Maybe there are reasons why?

Personally I think the first encampment should be next to Leo Varadkar's residence to, you know, show leadership.

Cookie_Monster

and controversial “anti-trespass” legislation, widely used by local authorities to evict Travellers from publicly owned land, should be repealed, says the review

I can't see anything going wrong with this proposal at all, no sir-ee, nothing at all...

That's an astonishing report - advocating for an overreach and abuse of government authority. Perhaps residents have legitimate concerns that deserve to be heard? For example, rampant anti-social behaviour, criminality, animal abuse & pollution. The majority of people who work for a living are afforded no protections, and are demoted to the back of the queue should a need for emergency housing arise. It's quite a damning reflection on the powers that be, and wholly unbalances the playing field.

Anto Lynch

A load of them are after setting up an illegal camp off the Ballycoolin road. Must of moved in over night as they were not there yesterday. The place will be destroyed within days.

c.p.w.g.w

Currently an encampment in Limerick near one of the big industrial estates. Most of the companies have doubled their security per shift.

Aglomerado

Deleted User wrote: »

That's an astonishing report - advocating for an overreach and abuse of government authority. Perhaps residents have legitimate concerns that deserve to be heard? For example, rampant anti-social behaviour, criminality, animal abuse & pollution. The majority of people who work for a living are afforded no protections, and are demoted to the back of the queue should a need for emergency housing arise. It's quite a damning reflection on the powers that be, and wholly unbalances the playing field.

Working, taxpaying people who are paying mortgages should lose the right to defend the value of their property!:mad:

suicide_circus

do Pavee Point have some dirt on some high ranking civil servants in the country or something?

Deebles McBeebles

I, for one, welcome our new Traveller overlords.

Utter Consternation

Anto Lynch wrote: »

A load of them are after setting up an illegal camp off the Ballycoolin road. Must of moved in over night as they were not there yesterday. The place will be destroyed within days. hours.

Fixed that for you.

Stevieluvsye

Has anyone ever had a nice experience with this lot......ever?

In a Tesco express at the weekend and i'm top of queue and bridgie and mary totally disregard me, walk straight pass and go to checkout.

And that's probably called a pleasant experience dealing with them

Anto Lynch

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Has anyone ever had a nice experience with this lot......ever?

In a Tesco express at the weekend and i'm top of queue and bridgie and mary totally disregard me, walk straight pass and go to checkout.

And that's probably called a pleasant experience dealing with them

They do things like that because people allow them to. Did you not pull them up on it?

Sonny noggs

Anto Lynch wrote: »

They do things like that because people allow them to. Did you not pull them up on it?

Agreed. Happened me a few times in the Clarehall KFC, there was clearly a queue that they attempted to skip. I pointed this out politely and they went to the back of the queue.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Anto Lynch wrote: »

They do things like that because people allow them to. Did you not pull them up on it?

It can escalate pretty fast.

salmocab

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Has anyone ever had a nice experience with this lot......ever?

In a Tesco express at the weekend and i'm top of queue and bridgie and mary totally disregard me, walk straight pass and go to checkout.

And that's probably called a pleasant experience dealing with them

I have I’ve met a few through sport. I’ve also had quite a few bad experiences and overall would prefer not to be living too close to them.

Stevieluvsye

Anto Lynch wrote: »

They do things like that because people allow them to. Did you not pull them up on it?

I did ye, they ignored me in pink fluffy jarmers

In fairness the young lad on reception didn't know where to look

Kermit.de.frog

salmocab wrote: »

I’ve also had quite a few bad experiences and overall would prefer not to be living too close to them.

Early contender for understatement of the year on Boards?

jammiedodgers

Anto Lynch wrote: »

They do things like that because people allow them to. Did you not pull them up on it?

Because I'm sure they'd react in a totally polite and non threatening fashion.

Anto Lynch

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Because I'm sure they'd react in a totally polite and non threatening fashion.

So? They have no clue who you are or what they could be potentially dealing with. These people think they can do what they want because most normal people are in fear them.

Im not saying everybody is able for them but if youre a grown man i dont see why you should be taking s**t off them.

The Specialist

Yeah just try doing this and see what happens. The people responsible for that report are seriously disconnected from the majority sentiment towards this group.

Stevieluvsye

I'm thinking about previous experiences i have had with them

Robbed at knife point (Never caught)
Garden shed broken in to (Caught and sent to prison)
Mass brawl between a group of them at the entrance of level 3 at the square
Emergency brake after one of their horses and carts reared up
Mass brawl in pub during afters in funeral in Tallaght

What do these "people" add to society?

Omackeral

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Personally I think the first encampment should be next to Leo Varadkar's residence to, you know, show leadership.

Sure didn't 5 out of 6 Presidential Candidates say they'd have no problem with Travellers living on their lawn. No reason our lovely leader wouldn't feel the same.

The Specialist

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

What do these "people" add to society?

Absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. Some "cultures" simply need to be thrown on the scrap heap (forgive the pun).

Omackeral

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Has anyone ever had a nice experience with this lot......ever?

I get great craic out of a lot of them to be entirely honest. Find some of their turns of phrase to be brilliant. Who could ever forget such classics as "shyte in the bucket, junkies junkies bastard and rat poison face"

banie01

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's an astonishing report - advocating for an overreach and abuse of government authority. Perhaps residents have legitimate concerns that deserve to be heard? For example, rampant anti-social behaviour, criminality, animal abuse & pollution. The majority of people who work for a living are afforded no protections, and are demoted to the back of the queue should a need for emergency housing arise. It's quite a damning reflection on the powers that be, and wholly unbalances the playing field.

It is part of a concerted effort to lay all the blame for the woes of the traveller community at the feet of the "settled" community.

The Traveller groups really are playing a blinder on this.
Speaking against having Traveller accommodation built in your locale is now, thanks to a long running campaign to promote the "Ethnicity" of the traveller community, seen as Racism!

Perhaps if the locals took the view that rather than objecting to Traveller accommodation nearby, that they object to state funded accommodation for Organised Crime Gangs?

I alluded in another thread to my growing belief that a "Separate but equal" strategy for travellers is being actively pursued.
This further compounds that belief for me, to attempt to bypass constitutional protections of one's property and it's quiet enjoyment at the very least, is a quick path to whichever agency takes this advice being handed it's arse in court.

Leg End Reject

This is discrimination against settled people. What about my right to protest boss?

SEPT 23 1989

I wonder where the reports authors Prof Michelle Norris, head of school at University College Dublin’s school of social policy and Conor Norton, head of school in the department of architecture and planning at Technological University Dublin live?

CrankyHaus

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

What do these "people" add to society?

They did make a disproportionate contribution to our traditional music in the past, though I'm not sure of anything similar nowadays.


They do provide a fair amount of talented boxers.


With sensible policies travellers could one day be a valued part of our society.
Instead the state, in consultation with traveller representative bodies like Pavee Point, doubles down on policies that perpetuate and enhance alienation from the settled community, poor educational outcomes, unemployment, criminality, addiction, fraudulent behaviour, local environmental destruction, animal abuse, domestic violence, homophobia and terrible health outcomes. It keeps a cottage industry of lawyers, quangos, "spokespeople" and social science and academic "experts" of nebulous authority on the pigs back though.

Leg End Reject

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I wonder where the reports authors Prof Michelle Norris, head of school at University College Dublin’s school of social policy and Conor Norton, head of school in the department of architecture and planning at Technological University Dublin live?

I'm guessing nowhere need a halting site.

Stevieluvsye

CrankyHaus wrote: »

They did make a disproportionate contribution to our traditional music in the past, though I'm not sure of anything similar nowadays.


They do provide a fair amount of talented boxers.


With sensible policies travellers could one day be a valued part of our society.
Instead the state doubles down on policies that perpetuate and enhance alienation from the settled community, poor educational outcomes, unemployment, criminality, addiction, fraudulent behaviour, local environmental destruction, animal abuse, domestic violence, homophobia and terrible health outcomes. It keeps a cottage industry of lawyers, quangos, "spokespeople" and social science and academic "experts" of nebulous authority on the pigs back though.

If i don't send stevieluvesye junior to school i would be summonsed to Court.

Not this lot.

If they are to ever change their kids should be forced to receive an education like everyone else. Then maybe they may start contributing in the form of paying taxes by working legitimately

banie01

Leg End Reject wrote: »

This is discrimination against settled people. What about my right to protest boss?

"Settled" unfortunately doesn't carry the same caché as victim of societal oppression, nor is it a protected ethnicity in legislation.
So suck it up, be called a NIMBYer and be prepared to carry the cost of traveller reparations if things keep going the way they are

jammiedodgers

Anto Lynch wrote: »

So? They have no clue who you are or what they could be potentially dealing with. These people think they can do what they want because most normal people are in fear them.

Im not saying everybody is able for them but if youre a grown man i dont see why you should be taking s**t off them.

Because their method of dealing with conflict usually involves bare knuckle boxing, slash hooks or their latest stunt of driving through a graveyard to run you down.

super_furry

Yeah, that's a really bad idea that I'd hope has no chance of being passed.

Gen.Zhukov

How many caravans would fit in the green areas here. 150-200 I'd say.
Great road access etc.

CrankyHaus

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

If i don't send stevieluvesye junior to school i would be summonsed to Court.

Not this lot.

If they are to ever change their kids should be forced to receive an education like everyone else. Then maybe they may start contributing in the form of paying taxes by working legitimately

Of course! they're just some of the sensible policies I'm talking about.
However the state policy is the opposite of this, it's madness.


In fact, do you know that the national policy for travellers [The National Traveller and Roma Inclusion Strategy 2017-2021] does not even have putting them into employment as a goal, in the way it does for say immigrants? It also rejects integration as an aim.


This failure of policy was critiqued quite well in the Irish Times (with some extracts below):



https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/state-policy-towards-travellers-dodges-employment-question-1.3688569?mode=amp



This document concludes that Travellers and Roma are “among the most disadvantaged and marginalised people in Ireland” and provides strong evidence for this conclusion, showing that more than 80 per cent of Travellers are unemployed, only 13 per cent of Traveller children complete second-level education and male Travellers are 11 times more likely to be in prison and have a suicide rate seven times the average rate.



The report then goes on to reject “integration” as a strategy in favour of “inclusion”. It does this without either providing any definition of integration or inclusion or evidence to support this choice. It says: “Discussion with Traveller and Roma representatives and other relevant stakeholders has resulted in a change of emphasis from integration to inclusion, which is seen as better capturing what we want to achieve for these communities in our society”.



The difference between integration and inclusion, as seen by the Government, would appear to be employment.



The Traveller strategy lists six “key initiatives and developments arising from the development of the inclusion strategy”. Three of these are focused on identity and culture involving: “State recognition of Travellers as an ethnic group”; promoting “knowledge of and pride in Traveller culture and heritage”; and developing “ethnic identifiers”. The other three initiatives cover education, health and feuding. None of these key initiatives address unemployment among Travellers.


The failure to prioritise employment in Traveller policy is nothing new. Over the last 30 years unemployment rates in the community have remained consistently above 80 per cent. The 1995 report of the task force on the Travelling community said there were “very limited employment opportunities for Travellers” because of the then high level of unemployment, but Traveller unemployment remained above 80 per cent even during the labour shortages of the Celtic Tiger boom and continue now when we are again facing labour shortages.


The Programme for Prosperity and Fairness published in 2000 committed the government to setting up a working group to discover the causes of high unemployment among Travellers despite labour shortages in the then booming economy. The departments of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and Justice and Equality were both reluctant to take responsibility for the working group. In 2002 the Department of Enterprise reached an agreement with Pavee Point that the working group not be set up but no reasons were ever given for this decision.


The Traveller strategy explains the level of Traveller unemployment by referring to the “high level of discrimination faced by Travellers when seeking employment”. The strategy ignores two other factors that affect Traveller employment. These are the possible conflict between Traveller culture and employment and the taxation and welfare systems.

Anto Lynch

jammiedodgers wrote: »

Because their method of dealing with conflict usually involves bare knuckle boxing, slash hooks or their latest stunt of driving through a graveyard to run you down.

Ive dealt with my fair share of them over the years and never had any of that happen to me. They arent able to fight any better than the common man on the street look at some of the fights ffs. All afraid of being hit. Barely a punch landed.

Even look at when traveller gangs go up against their settled counterparts (rare enough), it seldoms ends well for them and there has been a couple notable examples of that over the years.

Most violence from travellers is against members of their own community.

whisky_galore

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

If i don't send stevieluvesye junior to school i would be summonsed to Court.

That's because you have a residential address and if guards turn up they won't find a half dozen stevieluvesye seniors.

They're only marginalised because they want to be.

Boom_Bap

Gen.Zhukov wrote: »

How many caravans would fit in the green areas here. 150-200 I'd say.
Great road access etc.

You obviously haven't experienced the traffic in the area at peak times. An additional X number of cars/vans would not help with the traffic situation.

dudara

Low quality, stereotyping posts removed. Let’s have a mature discussion here please.

dudara

Roger Hassenforder

Under the OP link:


Brilliant!

If the minister tries to implement this nonsense, he'll be lynched

granturismo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I wonder where the reports authors Prof Michelle Norris, head of school at University College Dublin’s school of social policy and Conor Norton, head of school in the department of architecture and planning at Technological University Dublin live?

Where ever €148K per annum affords them. Plus their payment for writing this report.

KrustyUCC

I'm sure this proposal will go down very well with the general public and esp rural voters lol

Gatling

This could set a precedent to take all planning objections our of the general publics hands not just for traveller accommodation.

Ha Long Bay

This is some headline.

"Thieves rob copper from a van - escape on sulky - try to ram garda van with a horse - fail and get arrested"

https://www.thejournal.ie/van-sulky-copper-4738543-Jul2019/

Roger Hassenforder

john4321 wrote: »

This is some headline.

"Thieves rob copper from a van - escape on sulky - try to ram garda van with a horse - fail and get arrested"

https://www.thejournal.ie/van-sulky-copper-4738543-Jul2019/

In before " how do you know they were travellers"?

Varik

Hopefully the horse get's seized for mistreatment.

CrankyHaus

Varik wrote: »

Hopefully the horse get's seized for mistreatment.

And that they get a really tough judge, who gives them a long suspended sentence.

Borderfox

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

I'm thinking about previous experiences i have had with them

Robbed at knife point (Never caught)
Garden shed broken in to (Caught and sent to prison)
Mass brawl between a group of them at the entrance of level 3 at the square
Emergency brake after one of their horses and carts reared up
Mass brawl in pub during afters in funeral in Tallaght

What do these "people" add to society?

They keep the free legal aid going, up in the district court a couple of years ago and five lads fighting between themselves from the one family all got free legal aid with the one solicitor

Omackeral

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

In before " how do you know they were travellers"?

It's a fair point. It is often settled people robbing copper wire and then making their getaway on a sulky and then ramming Garda vehicles.

Eric Cartman

Omackeral wrote: »

It's a fair point. It is often settled people robbing copper wire and then making their getaway on a sulky and then ramming Garda vehicles.

lads in dalkey are mad for it.

padd b1975

Borderfox wrote: »

They keep the free legal aid going, up in the district court a couple of years ago and five lads fighting between themselves from the one family all got free legal aid with the one solicitor

Slight conflict of interest there don't you think?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.thejournal.ie/five-people-arrested-operation-thor-4738631-Jul2019

How come they don't just say travellers?