Moving to canada with kids

irishmiss17

Hi everyone,

We are considering moving to Ontario (not neccessarily Toronto) and we have young children. Can anyone advise me on the pros and cons of moving a family to Canada? Also how does it compare to here regarding work-life balance, childcare availability & costs and housing costs?

I'm struggling to find much info online other thats not geared towards younger people on work holiday visas so would really appreciate some info. Thanks

artvandelay48

We moved a year ago with two young kids from the Dublin area to Kitchener-Waterloo. The highlights, with only a KW perspective:

- Work life balance is great, my commute is 15 mins by car. There's loads for kids to do and lots of outside activities. One benefit that we didn't anticipate was that school attendance is directly based on the catchment area. So, if you live or rent in the area, you are guaranteed a place at school. This means that all my kids' school friends are really close by. We used to live in Dublin and the kids friends were much further away.

- I can't speak for childcare of preschoolers but kids start school the year they turn 4 and afterschool care is run in the same school as the one they attend. It costs about CDN$500-600 a month total for both kids for afterschool care. Probably the same again if you need childcare before school.

- Salaries are lower here and tax is only slightly lower. You get more for your tax dollars though. Free healthcare, municipal services like bin collection, and lots of subsidized services (our local YMCA costs $150 a month for our entire family and it gives us free swimming lessons, dancing class, tae kwon do class, gym for the adults, and lots of kids activities). Groceries and clothes are probably cheaper (on the whole) but that is offset by the lower wages than in Ireland.

- Housing is generally cheaper but only because you get more for your money. If you are looking for a detached house (most of them are) in a nice area it can be expensive (in KW a 2500 sqft house in a nice area will be about CDN$700k (EUR475k approx)). I can't comment on the rental market or Toronto (but the general consensus is that Toronto is much much more expensive).

- KW has loads of tech companies and has historically had a large number of insurance companies. Some manufacturing.

irishmiss17

Thank you for your quick response! And I will go and google the area you live in. Right now I am leaning towards regional Ontario rather than GTA because of the high property prices. It is very important to us that we would be able to purchase a home in Canada if we did move there.

The availability of afterschool care and extra curricular activities is music to my ears!! I'm curious about whether there are many working mothers? I don't want to be odd one out as it will be my career that likely gets us the visa.

How would you rate the healthcare system, schools etc to Ireland?

the_syco

irishmiss17 wrote: »

We are considering moving to Ontario (not neccessarily Toronto) and we have young children.

Do you both have a full license?

artvandelay48

From what we have experienced, the healthcare system is good. You have to register with a doctor and it occasionally means being put on a waitlist but that should just be a couple of months. Once you are registered, you go to that doctor exclusively.

We have been very impressed with the schools. It seems that there are more classroom resources. Because kids start a year earlier here, our 6 year old was a bit behind on his reading and they had a dedicated educational assistant that worked with kids that needed extra reading help. Our school in Ireland didn't seem to have many similar resources.

There would be a good few working mothers. The afterschool care is pretty well-subscribed. Also our school day is from 8:40 to 3pm which is longer than it was in Ireland. It just means that its easier to find care because you don't need care at 1pm for the littlest ones.

irishmiss17

a full drivers license? yes we do.

Artvandelay48: Everything you've said so far sounds positive. What would be some negatives would you say apart from the obvious missing family friends etc? Is there less crime, drugs etc?

circular flexing

irishmiss17 wrote: »

a full drivers license? yes we do.

Artvandelay48: Everything you've said so far sounds positive. What would be some negatives would you say apart from the obvious missing family friends etc? Is there less crime, drugs etc?

Holiday/vacation allowances are not as good (2-3 weeks is common depending on industry, 4 is good, anything more is extremely uncommon). If you plan on regularly visiting Ireland then that'll eat in to that allowance pretty quickly. In general, fresh food is more expensive and not as high a quality as Ireland - in particular the cost of butter and good cheese is high. Bulk buying can help cut the cost a bit but then you have to be careful of using fresh stuff up before it goes bad. I would also be wary of Ontario given that Doug Ford is in charge, he has been gutting the education system and a load of social assistance programs in Ontario since he came to power last year.

simongurnick

Toronto property is through the roof. Check out smaller cities like london, guelph or sarnia west of toronto or even ottawa. Anywhere that is commutable to toronto costs a fortune.
Healthcare is excellent. Two of my kids have special needs so i have literally got millions worth of healthcare.

artvandelay48

circular flexing wrote: »

Holiday/vacation allowances are not as good (2-3 weeks is common depending on industry, 4 is good, anything more is extremely uncommon). If you plan on regularly visiting Ireland then that'll eat in to that allowance pretty quickly. In general, fresh food is more expensive and not as high a quality as Ireland - in particular the cost of butter and good cheese is high. Bulk buying can help cut the cost a bit but then you have to be careful of using fresh stuff up before it goes bad. I would also be wary of Ontario given that Doug Ford is in charge, he has been gutting the education system and a load of social assistance programs in Ontario since he came to power last year.

Yes, holidays are less but they build up over time.

Not sure I agree on the fresh food being inferior to Ireland. Butter is certainly not as good (although you can find some decent stuff), milk seems fine but I am not a milk drinker (in cereal and coffee mainly). Cheese is hit and miss, a lot is processed; I've never really compared the price of decent cheese. Fresh produce is miles better than what you get in Ireland. Where we are there are loads of markets that in the summer have locally grown produce that is not grown in Ireland (peaches, sweet corn etc). We probably spend $1000 a month on groceries for a family of 4 which is about 680eur which is not far off what we spent in Ireland.

Scarinae

Just on the fresh food point - I don't know about Ontario, but here in Quebec the cost of fresh food varies on whether it is in season to a much greater extent than it would in Ireland. When certain fruit or veg is in season it is abundant and inexpensive so you just need to keep an eye on that. There is also a lot more going to different shops for different things, rather than everything being in one supermarket; we have a Costco membership so buy some stuff in bulk there but go to other shops for other things.

jme2010

irishmiss17 wrote: »

Is there less crime, drugs etc?

I moved to downtown Toronto from Dublin. I grew up in D.7, lived in Castleknock D15 in my early 20's and IFSC D1 then Kilmainham D8 in my late 20's

Best thing is you'll never hear that awful junkie northsider voice "Do ye have a euro for a hostal bud?" <shudders>

There is a homeless issue in parts of the city here, mostly down-and-out types that do not bother you they just are homeless. I feel 1 million times safer here than in my hometown of Dublin, I know that's disgraceful but that's just the way it is.

You'll never have to guess will we have a summer this year, or will we get snow in the winter - The seasons here are amazing and there's so so much to do.

I really am enjoying "cottaging" in Muskoka, just a short 2 hour drive north of Toronto.

irishmiss17

I definitely am leaning more towards outside the Toronto area because I'm not a city girl as it is! I know property is cheaper outside of Toronto and I presume wages are lower also but is buying a home more realistic than if we moved to Toronto?

The food- I don't mind the food in the states so if the milk, butter, bread etc are similar then I'll cope. It makes more sense for the food in season to be cheaper than what's not. It does make you wonder how pumped full of crap some fruit & veg in Ireland might be considering the price doesn't really vary throughout the year?

Delighted to hear it is safer over there. It's gone to the dogs in Ireland nowadays and not just in Dublin.Drugs are everywhere and unprovoked assaults are getting more and more common, even amongst teenagers.

the_syco

irishmiss17 wrote: »

a full drivers license? yes we do.

You can get it transferred over easy enough. Insurance can be pricey; in the city it can be $250-$300 a month to insure a car. The larger vehicles (such as a Dodge Ram) can be cheaper to insure (because in a crash, you survive), but not sure if it drinks fuel or not. But if you don't speed, etc, you can get a box fitted that will bring down the insurance (they use it to monitor your driving). Insurance can also depend on where you live, work, etc.

jme2010 wrote: »

There is a homeless issue in parts of the city here, mostly down-and-out types that do not bother you they just are homeless. I feel 1 million times safer here than in my hometown of Dublin, I know that's disgraceful but that's just the way it is.

I lived 5 minutes west of Queen & Bathurst. Seems there's a mental hospital nearby, so some crazies (who'd ask super politely if you knew where the hospital was) would be on the street sometimes. At Queen & Bathurst, there's a homeless shelter.. Never had any trouble from there, nor did anyone I know. Walked by it twice daily for a year, as did female flatmates.

Do you like animals? You'll see (leashed) dogs on subways/trains/streetcars/etc that are friendly, and well behaved. You'll see the odd leashed cat as well.

Scarinae wrote: »

Just on the fresh food point - I don't know about Ontario, but here in Quebec the cost of fresh food varies on whether it is in season to a much greater extent than it would in Ireland.

In Toronto, I found No Frills good for veg, but I'd often goto Kessington market if I had the time. How is Maxi like in Quebec?

irishmiss17 wrote: »

milk

Personally, apart from using half n half in the tea, I didn't like the milk in Toronto, but each to their own.

=-=

If you do move to Canada, get a chest freezer, and join Costco. Heck, Scarinae, check if there's a Costco near you. Find someone you know that has a membership, and go with them to check it out (you can only enter with a member if you're not a member).

the_syco

irishmiss17 wrote: »

as it will be my career that likely gets us the visa

What area is it? I ask as I think tech companies in the likes of Kitchener have to compete with Toronto, so are offering competing wages.

the_syco

Sorry, to clarify, I meant what area is your career in? I ask as some parts of Canada seem to have more of certain sectors than others.

circular flexing

artvandelay48 wrote: »

Yes, holidays are less but they build up over time.

Not sure I agree on the fresh food being inferior to Ireland. Butter is certainly not as good (although you can find some decent stuff), milk seems fine but I am not a milk drinker (in cereal and coffee mainly). Cheese is hit and miss, a lot is processed; I've never really compared the price of decent cheese. Fresh produce is miles better than what you get in Ireland. Where we are there are loads of markets that in the summer have locally grown produce that is not grown in Ireland (peaches, sweet corn etc). We probably spend $1000 a month on groceries for a family of 4 which is about 680eur which is not far off what we spent in Ireland.

You can find decent butter if you are willing to pay up to $14 per pound. We usually end up buying Kerrygold in Trader Joe's over the border as it's a bit cheaper. Once you get away from cheddar and look at european cheeses, the prices skyrocket (despite CETA). I guess my reference was also to meat, the beef in particular is more expensive for lower quality (in my view).