Oil Vs Gas boiler

Squatman

Hi folks,
Just wondering if people could help me decide on whats most apt for my house.
Im due a new boiler this year, as our current one is well old. it heats a bungalow with 14 rads. some quite large, and often the house isnt warm enough, and on oil, is costing us approx 3k per year to heat. (despite us both working, and not having heat on during the day)

If we switch to gas, what would our heating bills look like assuming the same heat requirements? What Kw rating boiler would we need, and how would that compare cost wise to oil?

If it makes it easier, feel free to point me in the direction of publications

thanks guys

s7ryf3925pivug

If your house was built since 2008 then look into a heat pump as an option.

If you are on the gas grid then gas is definitely a better option than oil.

If you are not on the gas grid then there are pros and cons for each and you should look into wood pellet boilers as well.

LPG (gas) in comparison to oil:
Lower emissions. Option of bioLPG which is lower again.
Less affected by increasing carbon taxes.
Not vulnerable to theft.
Can be used for gas-based appliances such as fires, outdoor heaters, ovens, barbecues
More expensive at this time and unlikely to change outside of heavy carbon taxes (which is a real possibility)
Less competitive market
Leaks are more dangerous

Wood pellet boilers:
Carbon neutral (?)
You need to allocate space to store the pellets near the boiler
Not vulnerable to theft
Don't know how the price compares.

Squatman

Thanks.
Just to add,
no - were in the country, and the house is nearly 40 years old. Boiler is probably not far off that either.
so for gas, it would be a tank. I'm toying with the idea of putting in a gas range too, so it could feed both, and we'd have it on when we get home. I heard mentioned before that you can get a gas boiler fitted for free? is that still the case?

s7ryf3925pivug

I think there's an offer available from calor for a free boiler. You could check.

There had been government grants for gas condensing boilers until recently enough but they changed to heat pumps and retrofits because they are greener options.

Retrofit grant is 50% but the application seems onerous, the expense pretty big anyway, the actual work si.ilar to getting an extension. For us it wasn't really an option because we had no working heating at all so it would have taken too long. Basically they improve the insulation of your house to the point that it is heat pump ready.

s7ryf3925pivug

3k a year is massive. A more efficient boiler would save you money one way or another. Better insulation probably would too. Maybe get someone in to have a look at why it's costing so much in more detail.

Squatman

Saul Angry Snorer wrote: »

3k a year is massive. A more efficient boiler would save you money one way or another. Better insulation probably would too. Maybe get someone in to have a look at why it's costing so much in more detail.

I had a plumber out, and he reckons the main reason is the 14 rads. (house is bungalow, 20m long, and has some quite long rads (over 8 feet long) (we got the house pumped) . He also maintained (rightly or wrongly) that a new boiler would only be 3-5% more efficient. - would anyone care to comment on that statement?

s7ryf3925pivug

It's cheap to remove radiators. TRVs might be a good idea.

John.G

Squatman wrote: »

I had a plumber out, and he reckons the main reason is the 14 rads. (house is bungalow, 20m long, and has some quite long rads (over 8 feet long) (we got the house pumped) . He also maintained (rightly or wrongly) that a new boiler would only be 3-5% more efficient. - would anyone care to comment on that statement?

Changing from a well maintained standard efficiency (non condensing) boiler to a condensing boiler oil or gas will realistically save ~ 10/12% extra. Bear in mind that LPG is (using SEAI April comparison costs) 43% more expensive than oil and while there is better control with the LPG boiler due to less cycling because it can modulate, that might give another 2/3% more efficiency than with oil but still difficult to justify on costs. The LPG bulk cylinder rent will add another maybe €150/€200 per annum.
https://www.seai.ie/resources/publications/Domestic-Fuel-Cost-Comparison.pdf

monseiur

As there's no mains gas passing your door, forget gas for C/H Fitting a new boiler no matter how efficient will save you less that €250.00 a year.
Concentrate first on where you're losing heat - ensure that you have 300mm well fitted insulation in your attic. Seeing that your house was built 40 years ago perhaps your windows and external doors need upgrading to triple glazed, this ideally should be done before walls were pumped.
Any timber floors in your house ? If yes, consider replacing them with concrete screed on 100mm insulation.
Consider replacing rads with some modern, more efficient high output ones
Also, do you need to heat the whole of the house the whole of the time ?
Fit good quality TRV's and zone heating system to suit using motorised valves, stats. etc. Have you access to free/cheap timber/turf, if so consider fitting a solid fuel stove in living room or kitchen/dining area.
A storm porch at front & back door would be another fuel saving addition.

Check with SEAI, you may qualify for grant assistance for some of the above work.

Wearb

monseiur wrote: »

As there's no mains gas passing your door, forget gas for C/H Fitting a new boiler no matter how efficient will save you less that €250.00 a year.
Concentrate first on where you're losing heat - ensure that you have 300mm well fitted insulation in your attic. Seeing that your house was built 40 years ago perhaps your windows and external doors need upgrading to triple glazed, this ideally should be done before walls were pumped.
Any timber floors in your house ? If yes, consider replacing them with concrete screed on 100mm insulation.
Consider replacing rads with some modern, more efficient high output ones
Also, do you need to heat the whole of the house the whole of the time ?
Fit good quality TRV's and zone heating system to suit using motorised valves, stats. etc. Have you access to free/cheap timber/turf, if so consider fitting a solid fuel stove in living room or kitchen/dining area.
A storm porch at front & back door would be another fuel saving addition.

Check with SEAI, you may qualify for grant assistance for some of the above work.

All the rest of the advice seem good, but unless your rads are all gunged up, fitting other types will not save money. A 2kw rad is still a 2kw rad and will require 2kw of power, no matter what or how its made.

Squatman

Wearb wrote: »

All the rest of the advice seem good, but unless your rads are all gunged up, fitting other types will not save money. A 2kw rad is still a 2kw rad and will require 2kw of power, no matter what or how its made.

I did wonder that alright

Squatman

monseiur wrote: »

As there's no mains gas passing your door, forget gas for C/H Fitting a new boiler no matter how efficient will save you less that €250.00 a year.
Concentrate first on where you're losing heat - ensure that you have 300mm well fitted insulation in your attic. Seeing that your house was built 40 years ago perhaps your windows and external doors need upgrading to triple glazed, this ideally should be done before walls were pumped.
Any timber floors in your house ? If yes, consider replacing them with concrete screed on 100mm insulation.
Consider replacing rads with some modern, more efficient high output ones
Also, do you need to heat the whole of the house the whole of the time ?
Fit good quality TRV's and zone heating system to suit using motorised valves, stats. etc. Have you access to free/cheap timber/turf, if so consider fitting a solid fuel stove in living room or kitchen/dining area.
A storm porch at front & back door would be another fuel saving addition.

Check with SEAI, you may qualify for grant assistance for some of the above work.

Is the 100mm only an option for suspended floors. All windows are double glazed and have a front porch. Is there much to be saved by going triple? We have a room upstairs, so we were looking into sprayfoam insulation as we could cover the full roof. As opposed to 300mm insulation that would have gaps. Im not convinced that spray foam would have an appreciable difference, due to the large open space below. What would you think?1

s7ryf3925pivug

do you mean your roof isn't insulated? That would explain the heating bills if yes.
The recommendation is to lay a second layer of rock wool insulation perpendicular to the first. It's also important to leave breathing space at the edges.

phormium

I have gas boiler and central heating with gas hob as well. Boiler is 29 yrs old as is the house, normal aeroboard sheet type insulation, never had it pumped, original double glazed windows. Bungalow with later attic converted so house is approx 2,500 sq ft. 13 radiators, had to count! None 8 ft long though, more of 5 or 6 ft maybe.

Gas tank rental costs me 45 a year but I'm with Flogas, I know Calor is around 70 euro a year and I spend approx between 1,200 to 1,500 per year on gas which includes cooking with the gas hob.

I rented once upon a time and couldn't afford to keep oil in the tank as it just went no distance, now I know that was based on that house but it put me off oil as when it ran out the boiler used to get airlocked and there was always hassle with it. So when I built my house I went for gas, have had no problems and still very happy with it. Switched to Flogas a few years ago due to a good offer at the time but my father is still with Calor and happy with them too.

Make of that what you will

John.G

You did very well, based on April's LPG cost of €0.81/Litre (€0.1137/kwh) your energy consumed was ~ 12,000 kwh/annum, very good IMO for a ~ 230 M2 "house".

shane b

That's very good usage. Wish i was getting close to that. Ive a slightly bigger house and using almost double that. House is a 2700 sq ft former bungalow with built in 04 with underfloor heating and an LPG condensing boiler. We consume about 2700 litres of gas a year and the house be just comfortable. In December/January we use about 100 litres a week.

Squatman

Saul Angry Snorer wrote: »

do you mean your roof isn't insulated? That would explain the heating bills if yes.
The recommendation is to lay a second layer of rock wool insulation perpendicular to the first. It's also important to leave breathing space at the edges.

Roof only has 100mm fiberwool, but there is 1 room.upstairs covering 1/3 of the area, so the opportunity to cover the lot doesnt exist. The room is in the middle of the house.

s7ryf3925pivug

Sounds like that room is a big hole in the insulation of your house. Insulating its roof would work so long as its walls and windows are also insulated.

phormium

I don't understand any of that figure wise I just keep a tight budget and know what I put away every week to cover gas costs and that goes into a separate account and gas bills are paid from it, I usually get tank topped up twice a year.

Oddly enough my father's house while smaller uses more although he does use a gas fire but has only 4 radiators and no gas hob.

I know that on my boiler I have never put the dial past 2 and even in exceptional circumstances if I am trying to heat a load of water it is usually around half way between 1 & 2, the bulk of the time it hovers around 1 whereas my father's boiler is usually up at around 3 to 4 for decent heat. Maybe my house is a lot better insulated than is normal for it's age? I dunno, I know the attic conversion is a bit of a botch job and a lot of draughts come down the stairs if it's windy. Heat is on timer and comes on twice a day except during times when I am at home a lot like Christmas for example when it could be on continually for the day at a low base.

shane b

phormium wrote:

I usually get tank topped up twice a year.

That's the difference. I getting topped up about 5 times a year and that's when the tanks at about 30%.

Squatman

Saul Angry Snorer wrote: »

Sounds like that room is a big hole in the insulation of your house. Insulating its roof would work so long as its walls and windows are also insulated.

Do you think it would make an appteciable difference tho? Quote at the time was 4500 to get the house done.. im just worried theres too much open space beneath it, for it to make it worth its money. On the upstairs room, its a dormer house, so its only in the attic. It has aeroboard backed plasterboard walls, and aeroboard on the roof - but only timber lap boards for the roof.

s7ryf3925pivug

Get a surveyor to advise who can do BER ratings. It seems like insulation is the biggest thing to address one way or another.