Fairest way to Acommodate Non Overnight Guests in Houseshare

Irish_peppa

Hi Guys, Would anyone have any advise on what would be the fairest way to allow non overnight visitors in a busy house-share that keeps everyone happy. I have 3 rooms rented out but the longest standing lodger has gradually started having his friends over (usually 2 or 3 lads at once) on average 5/6 days a week in the evenings for a few hours at a time having a few beverages. I wouldnt mind if some of the time he had them in his bedroom but I thinks Its a bit unfair on the rest of the housemates as he has them in the main common area adjoining the kitchen that has the main tv and seating where everyone comes home to in the evenings. So they kinda take the place over. The two newest housemates are a bit quiet and have not mentioned the situation, but i have noticed they retire to their rooms for the evening once the common area is taken over. I completely understand people have a life and have friends but is there a fair and amicable way to allow NON overnight guests and visitors over that will keep all housemates happy and not block up the common space for the rest of the housemates? For overnight visitors we have a 2 night per week policy that works out great for everyone, but I have not come across this situation before, Any advice welcome

Cuddlesworth

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Hi Guys, Would anyone have any advise on what would be the fairest way to allow non overnight visitors in a busy house-share that keeps everyone happy. I have 3 rooms rented out but the longest standing lodger has gradually started having his friends over (usually 2 or 3 lads at once) on average 5/6 days a week in the evenings for a few hours at a time having a few beverages. I wouldnt mind if some of the time he had them in his bedroom but I thinks Its a bit unfair on the rest of the housemates as he has them in the main common area adjoining the kitchen that has the main tv and seating when everyone comes home in the evenings. So they kinda take the place over. The two newest housemates are a bit quiet and have not mentioned the situation, but i have noticed they retire to their rooms for the evening once the common area is taken over. I completely understand people have a life and have friends but is there a fair and amicable way to allow NON overnight guests and visitors over that will keep all housemates happy and not block up the common space for the rest of the housemates? For overnight visitors we have a 2 night per week policy that works out great for everyone, but I have not come across this situation before, Any advice welcome

The guy renting a room has multiple people over 5-6 nights a week?

In most places I have seen where people rent rooms, the rule is no visitors. In practise it usually doesn't mean no visitors, its just means people have to be careful on how they approach it and not rip the piss. Like the above.

Irish_peppa

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The guy renting a room has multiple people over 5-6 nights a week?

In most places I have seen where people rent rooms, the rule is no visitors. In practise it usually doesn't mean no visitors, its just means people have to be careful on how they approach it and not rip the piss. Like the above.

Hi Cuddles, well they are his mates not different people each night just his close drinking mates . Ah i think the whole No visitors would be very draconian. I really aprreciate the fact that these lodgers help me pay my mortgage which i am very thankful for. I dont really mind the situation as to be honest im in my room for the most part I am more concerned that the 2 newest lads have restricted access to the common areas without feeling awkward as they pay equal rent

Graham

Irish_peppa wrote: »

I am more concerned that the 2 newest lads have restricted access to the common areas without feeling awkward as they pay equal rent

I'd just say that to housemate number 1.

NuggetsBladder

Honestly I would just tell him that 5/6 nights a week is too much to have guests taking over a common area.

I live alone and even I wouldn't want people over that often. He's being inconsiderate of his housemates. Just be candid. It's a landlords market so if he leaves he leaves. You'll replace him quick.

Dial Hard

5 to 6 nights a week is completely taking the piss. The only way to deal with this is straight up tell him it's not on. Don't even frame it as "You're hogging the communal areas" as he'll just move them to his bedroom.

Seriously, who the hell sees their friends 6 nights a week? I work with my best friend since playschool and she lives around the corner and we still wouldn't see eachother that much. Tell them to eff off down to the pub.

pinktoe

They seem to be using your house because it's not allowed it their own.

Set the rules in your own house. If he leaves you can replace him, if you don't say anything now the current lodgers will leave and then the new ones will leave and so on.

1874

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The guy renting a room has multiple people over 5-6 nights a week?

In most places I have seen where people rent rooms, the rule is no visitors. In practise it usually doesn't mean no visitors, its just means people have to be careful on how they approach it and not rip the piss. Like the above.

Im thinking of renting rooms again, as people will be older (I am) Im really thinking of having a no visitors rule, I didnt before, in that I really had no rule and generally most people didnt have any more than their partner over, maybe the odd friend from far away.
I think as people get older and still share, they want some element of privacy and certainty, not new randomers turning up all the time,
I was thinking of flat out stating that rule upfront, but with any rule, I usually found people push the limits and you either have to turn a blind eye to it to be reasonable or lay down the law.
Even if people dont push it, but ask? how do people handle it these days?

Randomers, out when licencee leaves, known partners allowed stay when licencee is in work (so long as they are not a tool, either the licencee or their partner) but for a limited no of days. Group of mates, every now and again,
Any cost incurred? fr regular stayers? be awkward to do,

Anyone sneakily trying to move someone in on the sly, either out pronto or charged full whack asap IMO



As for OP, Id be laying down the law, that really is a bit too much/taking the piss and a fair imposition on the other licencees, and Id never hole up in my own room even if I was inclined

Irish_peppa

pinktoe wrote: »

They seem to be using your house because it's not allowed it their own.

Set the rules in your own house. If he leaves you can replace him, if you don't say anything now the current lodgers will leave and then the new ones will leave and so on.

It does seem to be turning into a proxy bar i think your right. thanks pinktoe

Irish_peppa

1874 wrote: »

Im thinking of renting rooms again, as people will be older (I am) Im really thinking of having a no visitors rule, I didnt before, in that I really had no rule and generally most people didnt have any more than their partner over, maybe the odd friend from far away.
I think as people get older and still share, they want some element of privacy and certainty, not new randomers turning up all the time,
I was thinking of flat out stating that rule upfront, but with any rule, I usually found people push the limits and you either have to turn a blind eye to it to be reasonable or lay down the law.
Even if people dont push it, but ask? how do people handle it these days?

Randomers, out when licencee leaves, known partners allowed stay when licencee is in work (so long as they are not a tool, either the licencee or their partner) but for a limited no of days. Group of mates, every now and again,
Any cost incurred? fr regular stayers? be awkward to do,

Anyone sneakily trying to move someone in on the sly, either out pronto or charged full whack asap IMO



As for OP, Id be laying down the law, that really is a bit too much/taking the piss and a fair imposition on the other licencees, and Id never hole up in my own room even if I was inclined

I just think the NO VISITORS policy seems a bit totalitarian. I need to think of a simple guide / rule that I can write on the lodger agreement without sounding like a control freak lol . Why did you stop the lodgers where they getting annoying?

1874

Irish_peppa wrote: »

I just think the NO VISITORS policy seems a bit totalitarian. I need to think of a simple guide / rule that I can write on the lodger agreement without sounding like a control freak lol . Why did you stop the lodgers where they getting annoying?

Write on the lodger agreement?? its your house, you dont need to write anything down, I wouldnt advise it,
Id get someone to sign an agreement maybe, see what they say to that, I wouldnt give them a copy, if they are a dick about it what will they be like later.
I had that experience with someone who wanted a copy of the "lease" when they were renting the room, I had him sign it was x amount and the bills were fixed, he complained and moaned about everything, in the end I told him to leave, it was exhausting dealing with him.

As for the it seems a bit totalitarian, maybe, thats why Im asking, you see a lot more of it now ie strictly one person/no couples, ie in other words, dont try move your boyfriend/girlfriend in here under the radar on the sly for cheap living, maybe because more people are older and living in shared accomodation or shared with an owner occupier and they dont want the place doubly occupied, wear and tear/peace and quiet/no random strangers wandering around with access to everyones property.
What do you mean why did I stop the lodgers? were they getting annoyed?? no I met someone etc, grew out of it,

It sounds like youre assuming they got tired of living under my roof, I didnt have strict conditions then, I allowed other people/partners, friends to stay over, mostly most people didnt abuse it so it was mostly ok, some people did push and try impose their perceived authority, anything from being dirty/not cleaning up after themselves/making too much noise where it was a disturbance to other people, stupid stuff like having a shower at 2.30am, IMO if you dont set certain rules you want people to abide by you open up the door to being walked on.
The worst people always said the same thing, I paid etc blah blah, think they can do what they want, WRONG!
IMO you are being walked all over, probably not maliciously, just sounds like the lodger is oblivious and they wont know unless something is said, seen a few threads where lodgers were taking the proverbial.
Would you prefer lose your other lodgers or this person?

Wabbit Ears

Just say the two nights staying over rule applies to this situation also.

colm_mcm

Who even drinks at home 5 nights a week? I’m so old.

Surely he can go to one of their houses.

pinktoe

1874 wrote: »

Write on the lodger agreement?? its your house, you dont need to write anything down, I wouldnt advise it,

While everything else 1874 says, I agree with, I don't agree with the above.

If you ever have a bell end that you need to call the Gardai on, a written agreement is advisable. Despite lodgers/licensees having little rights, you cannot just lock them out or randomly get rid of them unless they are anti social.

Simply licensee agreement with rules like:
Either party may terminate the agreement within 7 or 14 days (you choose) is benefical for both people. If they randomly move out without notice you may keep 7 or 14 days rent from the deposit so your not left short.
No dirty dishes to be left anywhere around the house.
Noise to be kept to a minimum after 11 or 12, use headphones to watch TV and take phone calls quietly downstairs after that time etc.
Guests over twice a week max (don't say nights as they will argue 7 days are fine since you only stated nights).
Rent to be paid on xx of each month with no exceptions.
Bills paid late occur a €12 fee which BOI charge.
If you spill something clean It, if you break something pay for it.
No smoking in bedrooms
Any treating or antisocial behaviour won't be tolerated and if the Gardai are called your licensee agreement will be terminated immediately and you will have 24hrs to arrange someone else to collect your stuff.

It's just a sample, you choose the amount of notice, quiet hours etc

Having rent paid through your account is advisable and you are probably unlikely to go above the amount you can earn tax free unless it's in Dublin.

If you need to pm me about an agreement you can.

pinktoe

pinktoe wrote: »

While everything else 1874 says, I agree with, I don't agree with the above.

If you ever have a bell end that you need to call the Gardai on, a written agreement is advisable. Despite lodgers/licensees having little rights, you cannot just lock them out or randomly get rid of them unless they are anti social.

.

Writing stuff down is a bad idea, it’s just as likely to get used against you as be to any advantage. The lodger has no rights as default so writing stuff down can only potentially gives them something to cling to or at least make them think they have rights they don’t.

As for saying you cannot randomly get rid of them unless they are anti-social, not sure why you think that. You can’t get rid of a lodger at any time for absolutely no reason whatsoever, they have no rights simple as that.

pinktoe

Alaric Old-fashioned Sideshow wrote: »

Writing stuff down is a bad idea, it’s just as likely to get used against you as be to any advantage. The lodger has no rights as default so writing stuff down can only potentially gives them something to cling to or at least make them think they have rights they don’t.

As for saying you cannot randomly get rid of them unless they are anti-social, not sure why you think that. You can’t get rid of a lodger at any time for absolutely no reason whatsoever, they have no rights simple as that.

They are entitled to reasonable notice. Good luck just randomly evicting someone because you think they have no rights.

If they are paying rent monthly and you evict them some night with no notice the courts will take a very dim view.

pinktoe

pinktoe wrote: »

They are entitled to reasonable notice. Good luck just randomly evicting someone because you think they have no rights.

If they are paying rent monthly and you evict them some night with no notice the courts will take a very dim view.

Reasonable notice is not defined, the homeowner can decide what he/she finds reasonable in their own home. Not a chance of it getting as far as court.

Dr_Kolossus

Just say, you don't mind him having his mates over, but you have to be fair to everyone. The other lads haven't complained but you notice they don't get to use the common areas. Could he keep the visits to one or two nights acweek

K.Flyer

As others have said, he is taking the proverbial!!
He and his mates are treating your place like a doss house, a den, just a gaff to hang out and drink in, one step up from the nearest field.
Grossly unfair to the other tenants.
It is a houseshare, not he and his mates place and the rest of you have to make do with what is left over.
Stamp it out now, before you lose your other two tenants and one of his mates takes a room, then you will never get rid of them.
Btw, if you try to limit it to two nights, it will always end up being Fri and Sat.
Max one night a week, Max 2 people.

Caranica

Personally I'd give him his marching orders and replace him. Otherwise you're going to have a bad atmosphere and who knows what he'll do. He is already showing that he doesn't respect you or his housemates.

colm_mcm

Dr_Kolossus wrote: »

Just say, you don't mind him having his mates over, but you have to be fair to everyone. The other lads haven't complained but you notice they don't get to use the common areas. Could he keep the visits to one or two nights acweek

Don’t put this onto the other lodgers. It’s the OPs home. The OP has an issue with it and needs to take control of this themselves and lay down the law.

1874

pinktoe wrote: »

While everything else 1874 says, I agree with, I don't agree with the above.

If you ever have a bell end that you need to call the Gardai on, a written agreement is advisable. Despite lodgers/licensees having little rights, you cannot just lock them out or randomly get rid of them unless they are anti social.

Simply licensee agreement with rules like:
Either party may terminate the agreement within 7 or 14 days (you choose) is benefical for both people. If they randomly move out without notice you may keep 7 or 14 days rent from the deposit so your not left short.
No dirty dishes to be left anywhere around the house.
Noise to be kept to a minimum after 11 or 12, use headphones to watch TV and take phone calls quietly downstairs after that time etc.
Guests over twice a week max (don't say nights as they will argue 7 days are fine since you only stated nights).
Rent to be paid on xx of each month with no exceptions.
Bills paid late occur a €12 fee which BOI charge.
If you spill something clean It, if you break something pay for it.
No smoking in bedrooms
Any treating or antisocial behaviour won't be tolerated and if the Gardai are called your licensee agreement will be terminated immediately and you will have 24hrs to arrange someone else to collect your stuff.

It's just a sample, you choose the amount of notice, quiet hours etc

Having rent paid through your account is advisable and you are probably unlikely to go above the amount you can earn tax free unless it's in Dublin.

If you need to pm me about an agreement you can.

Well, its not essential and by no means a requirement, but it could be a useful idea from either sides perspective, but I wouldnt give the lodger a copy, just that they sign to agree to these rules, if they break the rules and they say that was never said, you have it. I think it has the potential to tie a person letting a room in knots though, for me Id rule out smoking at all, as a non smoker I can detect it and I dont like it and it takes a repainting and a deep clean to get rid of, as for the mates over, I wouldnt really allow someone to take over even once a week, maybe once a month and then a turn at his other mates place each week.
The thing is, I always had informal rules, ie verbal and if you are to write one thing down, you could write everything, the list could become endless.
Id definitely go with general rules and certain specifics if going with a written agreement, but Id include a note that the list isnt exhaustive, in other words if they start doing something you dont want, you can and will bring it up. I had people say, oh you never said that, when they were doing something unreasonable.
Some people are ok with that, others get snotty, others defensive. I let rooms in my home for years and came across all sorts.

Dr_Kolossus wrote: »

Just say, you don't mind him having his mates over, but you have to be fair to everyone. The other lads haven't complained but you notice they don't get to use the common areas. Could he keep the visits to one or two nights acweek

1 or 2 nights a week?!!, one night for that kind of get together a month, and then a turn at everyone elses place.
Ill edit that to say once a week for 2-3 people for a few drinks, but Id make sure it doesnt clash with other people who pay and what they want, some room lets say no visitors or overnight guests, personally Id allow a girlfriend/boyfriend over 2 nights a week so long as they didnt try take over, ie living room or hog the remote, they're regular and you know them. Id say the reason limits are put on it is, if everyone did 1 night a week with a few mates over, then the house is a doss house and a large regular footfall, wear and tear, unknown people coming and going/no peace and quiet.
One a week max, maybe once a fortnight, but certainly not all week. OP said happened gradually but once it went to more than once a week it was overstepping being reasonable, then it should have been shut down ASAP.

Caranica wrote: »

Personally I'd give him his marching orders and replace him. Otherwise you're going to have a bad atmosphere and who knows what he'll do. He is already showing that he doesn't respect you or his housemates.

Id give them a chance, and just say its not happening anymore to the extent it was and then set the limits, but may as well go the full hog and just say once a month for that kind of thing, some people wouldnt allow visitors at all, certainly not a crowd and not that much, as its just a big imposition when there a few people living together. Other licencees/people may not mind or may not say anything, but they may be irked, at the same time, its the OPs home too and people coming over multiple times a week is not on, if the guy doesnt realise he is taking the proverbial, he needs to be told, if he takes offence, complains or tries to bargain for more when you say no or set an allowed amount, then Id consider moving them, if they show annoyance, Id consider giving notice, any hostility and tell them to pack their bags. If they agree at the time but dont comply or act difficult later, then Id give notice. I always let by the month, so if someone says Im gone in 2days, well room was available for a month, thats their problem, even if I gave them a months notice, unless I got a decent replacement within the time, for hostility, Id show them the door and no refund.

It may end up you have to give them marching orders, but Id accept no messing about in the last month and I wouldnt accept allowing the deposit to be used as last months room rental, as then you hold no cards if they act difficult at the end and dont pay a bill or do any damage.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Don’t put this onto the other lodgers. It’s the OPs home. The OP has an issue with it and needs to take control of this themselves and lay down the law.

I agree and disagree, I wouldnt make it sound like anyone said anything, Id even highlight that no one has said anything but I would say "I have to consider everyone else anyway, and Id say its not something I want myself" the thing is, if people make these things clear at the start, it never has to get dealt with, if nothing is said and it starts, need to knock it on the head immediately. Waiting to see if things calm down doesnt work as well IMO.

colm_mcm

The fact that it wasn’t this way from the start suggests the lodger knew it isn’t normal behaviour and has gradually increased the drinking sessions to see what he can get away with to the point where it’s now a problem.

GarIT

Place I was in had a rule of max 5 visitors per month. That can be 5 in one day or one on 5 days or any mix in between and notice must be given at least a few hours in advance. It worked well.

1874

GarIT wrote: »

Place I was in had a rule of max 5 visitors per month. That can be 5 in one day or one on 5 days or any mix in between and notice must be given at least a few hours in advance. It worked well.

That sounds strange, such a specific number, honestly, I wouldn't want more than 3 people turning up at a time, and I wouldnt want to be counting it, just if its reasonable ok, I suppose it limits the overall amount of visits.
Some people (even in house shares without an owner present) do not allow visitors or overnight stayers at all. In this case, given that there are other lodgers I consider that reasonable or there'd be non resident people coming and going all the time. Once a week for 2 or 3 max, but if they are taking over, Id significantly limit it (a lot less) or knock it on the head completely, like if they are taking over the dining space, other licencees might not want people knocking about when they come in from work etc, might just want to cook their dinner, sit down eat it, relax, watch tv, not deal with a host of people. In general, I found most people didnt take the piss with guests, but there was always one person who pushed some limit and if you raised it with them they'd still push back about it.

smokie72

I think OP you have let it go too far at this stage. I also rent out 3 rooms but apart from the odd night when a girlfriend stays over I have no guests. Also the lads are only Monday to Friday. I like my space and privacy as well. If I were one of the other lodgers I might be looking for another place sooner rather than later. I rather hold onto the 2 quiet lads and get rid of yer man...he's taking the piss and knows it! You will have no problem getting someone as it's a landlord market atm. He has gotten too comfortable in your house. No way would I tolerate 6/7 people in my house 5/6 evenings a week.

Irish_peppa

Hi Guys, thought i would update this thread as a thanks to those who gave advice and for those in future that may have this problem! The bulk of advice i think was to ask him to go and state in future a max of visitors twice per week per lodger and (no more then 3 or 4 people at once)
So i took your combined advice and did it...
Well I picked up the courage to tell him to leave (via a little white lie about needing room for sister) Easier then truth i think as he would of tried stay by saying he would change, which i knew he wouldnt, albeit maybe for a few weeks.

I have a new "rule" on my lodgers agreement stating that visitors are allowed over twice per week.
I put his room up for rent and had a few viewings when asked by potential lodgers are visitors allowed when i said 2 times per week max there was a few shocked faces :eek: from a few of the people viewing but i explained it saying that it was the only way to be fair to everyone. Oh my god the place is so tranquil since hes gone. I used to have to dump boxes of glass beer bottles to the recycle centre every Monday and black bags full of cans All night drinking sessions over thank god. Place is way more relaxed and the non stop procession of people coming and going is over:D
PS: It seems his new house is not conducive to visitors every night either as I have seen him sitting outside the local bar multiple times since he moved out!
Again thanks for all the advice fellow boardsies

Dial Hard

Irish_peppa wrote: »

To say he wasnt happy was an understatement. He had quite a bad attitude about it. despite me giving him ample time to move. He was quite belingerent and cheeky. "Im asked to go even though you have 2 new guys here!!! ask them to go, why me thats not fair...

In fairness, he had a point there.

It worked out for you in the end, OP, but seriously, to anyone who finds themselves in a similar situation in future, just be honest.

Irish_peppa

smokie72 wrote: »

I think OP you have let it go too far at this stage. I also rent out 3 rooms but apart from the odd night when a girlfriend stays over I have no guests. Also the lads are only Monday to Friday. I like my space and privacy as well. If I were one of the other lodgers I might be looking for another place sooner rather than later. I rather hold onto the 2 quiet lads and get rid of yer man...he's taking the piss and knows it! You will have no problem getting someone as it's a landlord market atm. He has gotten too comfortable in your house. No way would I tolerate 6/7 people in my house 5/6 evenings a week.

Smokie72, do you have a "No Visitor" Policy or is it that your lodgers are just quiet and dont invite many people over bar their girlfriends?