Tillage expansion

Mad_maxx

Was listening to farm week with Damien o reilly a few weeks back and they were talking to a tillage farmer in south leinster

Farmer reckoned that any beef farmer who had sufficiently good land, should ditch the beef and grow crops, was quite surprised to hear this view, he also believed that beef was completely loss making and that cereal growing was undeniably more profitable.

Seemed like a bright fellow but surely without having all the machinery required, paying a contractor to plough, spray, harvest etc, would eat away all the gains?

He also seemed to think with the climate change agenda becoming more influential, cereals were again a better option than cattle.

Panch18

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Was listening to farm week with Damien o reilly a few weeks back and they were talking to a tillage farmer in south leinster

Farmer reckoned that any beef farmer who had sufficiently good land, should ditch the beef and grow crops, was quite surprised to hear this view, he also believed that beef was completely loss making and that cereal growing was undeniably more profitable.

Seemed like a bright fellow but surely without having all the machinery required, paying a contractor to plough, spray, harvest etc, would eat away all the gains?

He also seemed to think with the climate change agenda becoming more influential, cereals were again a better option than cattle.

He's completely right that fella - and most can't see it or don't have the land for tillage

Gawddawggonnit

Mad_maxx wrote: »

...
....but surely without having all the machinery required, paying a contractor to plough, spray, harvest etc, would eat away all the gains?

.

Don’t need contractors. What’s needed is EQUALITY!!
Dairy get mahoosive grants stuffed into every orifice, take for eg a combine harvester, the equivalent of a milking parlor...but where’s the Tamsxx for the tillage farmer?
Tillage could become more important in the future when people see that grass fed dairy produce depends on millions of tons of imported shyte from S America etc....

Panch18

Isn't there a Tillage Capital Investment Scheme?

Along with being able to purchase certain equipment under TAMS?

Could be wrong now

Mad_maxx

I'm aware of the enormous costs associated with machinery that tillage farmers have but say a typical beef holding of seventy acres or so, were to pay a contractor to plough, sow, harvest etc, would he have more or less out of it than keeping cattle?

You would think if this was the case, more would have taken a leaf out of this guy's book?

Suspect the machinery industry would be delighted with the switch

Gawddawggonnit

Panch18 wrote: »

Isn't there a Tillage Capital Investment Scheme?

Along with being able to purchase certain equipment under TAMS?

Could be wrong now

Not wrong... but tits on a bull comes to mind.
What good is a gps type sprayer to the ordinary tillage man?

The extensive grants given to dairy farmers should be extended EQUALLY to tillage farmers.
Afaik the only items NOT grant aided for dairy farmers are generators and space heaters for parlors...

When I last wrote about this the Chief explained quite clearly that dairy farmers are (in a very Orwellian way) more equal to the rest (tillage, beef, pork, poultry etc), because they support more jobs...

At least in France farmers are treated equally...no grants for anybody...spoke to a young lad that’s after building a new duck house for €780k. He got a ‘grant’ from the Eu of €4.5k. Nothing from the national government.
There was an aid package from the French gov of €15k for 3yrs (total €45k) to help with the transition period when going organic. Gone!

Mad_maxx

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Not wrong... but tits on a bull comes to mind.
What good is a gps type sprayer to the ordinary tillage man?

The extensive grants given to dairy farmers should be extended EQUALLY to tillage farmers.
Afaik the only items NOT grant aided for dairy farmers are generators and space heaters for parlors...

When I last wrote about this the Chief explained quite clearly that dairy farmers are (in a very Orwellian way) more equal to the rest (tillage, beef, pork, poultry etc), because they support more jobs...

At least in France farmers are treated equally...no grants for anybody...spoke to a young lad that’s after building a new duck house for €780k. He got a ‘grant’ from the Eu of €4.5k. Nothing from the national government.
There was an aid package from the French gov of €15k for 3yrs (total €45k) to help with the transition period when going organic. Gone!

Not arguing but this guy on the radio was arguing that beef farmers switch to cereals, dairying not mentioned so I think its not relevant here

Gawddawggonnit

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Not arguing but this guy on the radio was arguing that beef farmers switch to cereals, dairying not mentioned so I think its not relevant here

Very relevant.
Especially when one wants to change system?
Gov decided that dairy = good.
Tillage = bad.

Grants have allowed farmers change systems for a pittance. They even encouraged the transition...wtf was Greenfield?

For a farmer to change system from his own pocket is financially challenging, but with lucrative grants it really eases the pain.

Mad_maxx

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Very relevant.
Especially when one wants to change system?
Gov decided that dairy = good.
Tillage = bad.

Grants have allowed farmers change systems for a pittance. They even encouraged the transition...wtf was Greenfield?

For a farmer to change system from his own pocket is financially challenging, but with lucrative grants it really eases the pain.

Ah OK get you now

Your comparing the relative ease of converting from beef to dairying as measured against converting from beef to tillage, hence why it's less common?

Gawddawggonnit

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Ah OK get you now

Your comparing the relative ease of converting from beef to dairying as measured against converting from beef to tillage, hence why it's less common?

Out of interest, if a young qualified farmer of 25, wanted to change from snail farming to dairy, and installed a 50/60 bail rotary parlor, what would he have to actually pay after the Tams grant?

The same young farmer wants to change from snail farming to tillage, what grants for buying his combine harvester? Nada.
Tillage farmers ‘fell’ into the Tams grant system, by default, for high end sprayers and fert spinners...then again it does fall into the Teagasc motto...all issues are cured by chemicals from a bag or a bottle.

Gov/Teagasc/IFA/Coops decided that dairy is good, and the rest don’t deserve any support. Simples.

As the Chief pointed out, dairy are just more important.

Donald Trump

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Don’t need contractors. What’s needed is EQUALITY!!
Dairy get mahoosive grants stuffed into every orifice, take for eg a combine harvester, the equivalent of a milking parlor...but where’s the Tamsxx for the tillage farmer?
Tillage could become more important in the future when people see that grass fed dairy produce depends on millions of tons of imported shyte from S America etc....

Awful waffle to be fair.


I take a look at the oul' CAP beneficiaries database from time to time. I see plenty of tillage farmers on 80k or more annually. You wouldn't see a fraction of that for a dairy farmer.


I know of plenty of tillage fellas around this area that built fabulous big "stores" and dryers for grain over the years through various grant schemes....Lets just say that some of them even found a more lucrative use as soon as the time limit (or even before) ran out. Fairly easy to convert a massive big enclosed shed with mass concrete walls to industrial use. It's a bit more difficult to convince an engineering, or kitchen making, company that they'll be grand to work across slats with the wind blowing the arses off them on a former cattle shed.


And you are moaning about lads getting grants to convert to dairy. Sure they aren't dairy farmers. They're tillage/beef farmers who are switching over and giving more competition to the existing dairy fellas. They are giving money to tillage farmers to start producing milk. Your argument is nonsense.

Gawddawggonnit

Donald Trump wrote: »

Awful waffle to be fair.


I take a look at the oul' CAP beneficiaries database from time to time. I see plenty of tillage farmers on 80k or more annually. You wouldn't see a fraction of that for a dairy farmer.


I know of plenty of tillage fellas around this area that built fabulous big "stores" and dryers for grain over the years through various grant schemes....Lets just say that some of them even found a more lucrative use as soon as the time limit (or even before) ran out. Fairly easy to convert a massive big enclosed shed with mass concrete walls to industrial use. It's a bit more difficult to convince an engineering, or kitchen making, company that they'll be grand to work across slats with the wind blowing the arses off them on a former cattle shed.


And you are moaning about lads getting grants to convert to dairy. Sure they aren't dairy farmers. They're tillage/beef farmers who are switching over and giving more competition to the existing dairy fellas. They are giving money to tillage farmers to start producing milk. Your argument is nonsense.

Roflmao!!

You’re right!!
It beggars belief that they don’t take that mahoosive sfp from those tillage farmers...ffs!

einn32

It would surely be a hard task expanding tillage given the small fields, high rainfall and expensive land here. You need a couple of thousand acres of tillage these days.

Case in point in Canada where a farm runs 24 hours a day and can buy the liquid and dry fertiliser required for one year in one go and store it all. It means a lot for the bottom line.

Markcheese

With the freak out about mercasour, our environmental and "new concern" about greenhouse gases, and fears about animal welfare Ect, should more beef and tillage farmers consider organic, (hopefully with a decent grant),
Mightn't suit convential dairy farmers who are trying to sell bull calves though...

Willfarman

Farming is about more than cashing in. You can’t just export the heart of the soil and expect to put it back with the wagtail. Livestock need tillage and tillage needs livestock.

Waffletraktor

einn32 wrote: »

It would surely be a hard task expanding tillage given the small fields, high rainfall and expensive land here. You need a couple of thousand acres of tillage these days.

Case in point in Canada where a farm runs 24 hours a day and can buy the liquid and dry fertiliser required for one year in one go and store it all. It means a lot for the bottom line.

Canada is nothing like western europe. Most crops don't get 100 days in the soil.

Waffletraktor

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Roflmao!!

You’re right!!
It beggars belief that they don’t take that mahoosive sfp from those tillage farmers...ffs!

You could say is it right for the Irish Govt to fund, research and market Gm fueled baby powders to folk who can ill afford it really. Then not allow local farmers avail of the same technology in an unfair market. And then go about screaming over anyone who points out the obvious with green washing when they can't even convince their local consumer base to apply a bonus for allow their cows grazeing said wonder forage.
Oh well must go see if kitchen world are due an expansion soon. :pac:

Mad_maxx

Markcheese wrote: »

With the freak out about mercasour, our environmental and "new concern" about greenhouse gases, and fears about animal welfare Ect, should more beef and tillage farmers consider organic, (hopefully with a decent grant),
Mightn't suit convential dairy farmers who are trying to sell bull calves though...

I'm only an observer but I'd imagine you need pretty sharp skills to grow cereals without artificial help?

Would weeds not take over and potentially wipe out the crop?

Donald Trump

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Roflmao!!

You’re right!!
It beggars belief that they don’t take that mahoosive sfp from those tillage farmers...ffs!

Well they are talking about capping them to 100k or thereabouts. Whether salaries/expenses are allowed to be deducted before the cap is not clear. Most of the people on the large amounts (ignoring commercial business operations) are tillage men. That's simple fact. I am not saying that all tillage men get large amounts. Just saying that the high payments under SFP are tillage men. You're the one whinging that tillage men get nothing. A dairy man who just grew grass and supplied milk for all the reference years would have a SFP of exactly zero.



Not sure of your point. You're whinging that a tillage farmer can't get a grant for a combine. Why would or should they? Would you expect a grant for a dairy farmer who wants to buy a new tractor and McHale Fusion baler?



You just come across as having a bad case of the oul' begrudgery. "Everyone else has it handy except for poor me ". If it's so handy, then go and build yourself a parlour. Buy a farm first if necessary. Get the 40% grant (up to the limit). Put in remainder. Retire early on all your profit.

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

Well they are talking about capping them to 100k or thereabouts. Whether salaries/expenses are allowed to be deducted before the cap is not clear. Most of the people on the large amounts (ignoring commercial business operations) are tillage men. That's simple fact. I am not saying that all tillage men get large amounts. Just saying that the high payments under SFP are tillage men. You're the one whinging that tillage men get nothing. A dairy man who just grew grass and supplied milk for all the reference years would have a SFP of exactly zero.



Not sure of your point. You're whinging that a tillage farmer can't get a grant for a combine. Why would or should they? Would you expect a grant for a dairy farmer who wants to buy a new tractor and McHale Fusion baler?



You just come across as having a bad case of the oul' begrudgery. "Everyone else has it handy except for poor me ". If it's so handy, then go and build yourself a parlour. Buy a farm first if necessary. Get the 40% grant (up to the limit). Put in remainder. Retire early on all your profit.

'Musha poor dairy boy must be missing that cuddly blanket of the quota years

Odelay

I understood our mild climate suits multiple crops of grass rather than one possibly mediocre crop of cereals?
Also we are a small island, how many different food industry’s can the government fund investment into research for?
What is wrong with dairy btw?

Markcheese

Mad_maxx wrote: »

I'm only an observer but I'd imagine you need pretty sharp skills to grow cereals without artificial help?

Would weeds not take over and potentially wipe out the crop?

Well you can't rely on sprays and bag manure, there's a lot more to do with building soil fertility and crop rotations..

Donald Trump

Waffletraktor wrote: »

'Musha poor dairy boy must be missing that cuddly blanket of the quota years

Cuddly blanket? :pac: . Not near as cuddly as the ould regular subsidy cheque coming in the door for the tillage man. Including the nice top up for "set-aside" which was literally money for nothing



More like shackles. Shackles are now gone. Thank fuck

kevthegaff

The reason beef/tillage farmers are converting is their huge sfp is used to bankroll the conversion with the benefit of tamms. Que large sfp with large milk cheque

tractorporn

Markcheese wrote: »

With the freak out about mercasour, our environmental and "new concern" about greenhouse gases, and fears about animal welfare Ect, should more beef and tillage farmers consider organic, (hopefully with a decent grant),
Mightn't suit convential dairy farmers who are trying to sell bull calves though...

Wouldn't take a whole pile to flood the organic tillage market either. The organic beef is almost as bad as conventional

Markcheese

Well, yeah.. Any small market is going to be difficult to grow, and it would need a serious marketing push, to sell product in Europe /UK /US, would think that an increased organic irisg tillage sector would need an organic irish livestock industry as its main customer...

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

Cuddly blanket? :pac: . Not near as cuddly as the ould regular subsidy cheque coming in the door for the tillage man. Including the nice top up for "set-aside" which was literally money for nothing



More like shackles. Shackles are now gone. Thank fuck

kevthegaff wrote: »

The reason beef/tillage farmers are converting is their huge sfp is used to bankroll the conversion with the benefit of tamms. Que large sfp with large milk cheque

Bit like dairy post quota becoming like every other sector where it's become swallow up the neighbours or get out as farms expand where previously quota afforded smaller dairy farms a living vs having to have under gone rationalisation like other sectors a decade or 2 ago for the model of Western Ag production which champions intensification into fewer larger companies. Pull the other one will ye.
Won't be long til it's mandated to have a % of land set aside for enviro schemes to keep the place look pretty for urban day trippers.

Donald Trump

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Bit like dairy post quota becoming like every other sector where it's become swallow up the neighbours or get out as farms expand where previously quota afforded smaller dairy farms a living vs having to have under gone rationalisation like other sectors a decade or 2 ago for the model of Western Ag production which champions intensification into fewer larger companies. Pull the other one will ye.

Sorry. genuinely not sure what that is trying to say?


Are you saying that some people preferred quota? I would think that it would be a rare case if you could find someone who preferred being restricted.


Only people that I could anticipate bemoaning the end of quota would maybe have been people who had a large quota and were already counting their windfall for retiring and selling it on.

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

Sorry. genuinely not sure what that is trying to say?


Are you saying that some people preferred quota? I would think that it would be a rare case if you could find someone who preferred being restricted.


Only people that I could anticipate bemoaning the end of quota would maybe have been people who had a large quota and were already counting their windfall for retiring and selling it on.

No i'm saying dairy farmers can't see the reality hitting them in the next decade as farms move from protected markets to commodity milk. When all is said and done you will end up with a lot fewer business running alot more cows with a large land base to accumulate fun tokens. Just like your much loved tillage or beef barron you 2 are so keen to point and dance about.

Quotas saved dairy from this by about 2 decades. Great if your a winner sucks if your a loser. Everyone loses out as the Eastern Europe ag companies get more of the western skills and ag budget from the Eu from a high cost Western perspective.

Donald Trump

Waffletraktor wrote: »

No i'm saying dairy farmers can't see the reality hitting them in the next decade as farms move from protected markets to commodity milk. When all is said and done you will end up with a lot fewer business running alot more cows with a large land base to accumulate fun tokens. Just like your much loved tillage or beef barron you 2 are so keen to point and dance about.

Quotas saved dairy from this by about 2 decades. Great if your a winner sucks if your a loser. Everyone loses out as the Eastern Europe ag companies get more of the western skills and ag budget from the Eu from a high cost Western perspective.

Who is singing or dancing about anything. You'd want to take a deep breath and calm down and relax there.


I simply responded to someone whinging about dairy men 'getting everything' and moaning that nobody would give him a grant for a new combine if he wanted one. Nobody will give me a grant for a new combine either. And whatever grant I could get for a new cattle shed, he could get as well.



As for consolidation, you can't stop progress. Quotas were a terrible thing for 99% of people. Nobody with a small quota was better off before than they could be now. There are fellas going into dairy that never saw a cow up close before quotas were abolished. If the lifelong 20k-gallon-quota dairy farmer can't use his headstart to keep ahead of the newbie then he needs to get out of the game anyway. It would be highly unlikely that he'd have been making a decent living off it under quota if he can't do it after restrictions were lifted.



I'm not sure what the chip on your shoulder apparently is. I'm not sure if you are against the removal of quota, begrudge that it wasn't removed earlier or think it should have been removed far earlier. I'd be soundly in the latter camp.

Birdnuts

Odelay wrote: »

I understood our mild climate suits multiple crops of grass rather than one possibly mediocre crop of cereals?
Also we are a small island, how many different food industry’s can the government fund investment into research for?
What is wrong with dairy btw?

Ireland exported a serious amount of grains and other crops in the 19th centuary. Putting all our eggs in one basket is not going to end well for Irish farming

Donald Trump

Birdnuts wrote: »

Ireland exported a serious amount of grains and other crops in the 19th centuary. Putting all our eggs in one basket is not going to end well for Irish farming

Not sure of the relevance of the 19th century?????????


Grains were "exported" by British landowners to feed the UK. Whether or not native Paddy would have liked to keep them here or not!

Birdnuts

Donald Trump wrote: »

Not sure of the relevance of the 19th century?????????


Grains were "exported" by British landowners to feed the UK. Whether or not native Paddy would have liked to keep them here or not!

I was just making the point to folks who think heavy input monoculture ryegrass swards are the only thing that can or should be grown/state supported on this island. As for what the native Paddy was at - up until the 70's most farmers were more than one trick ponies and had a bit of tillage, some pigs, poultry etc. It provided for self sufficiency and more diverse income stream, even on the most marginal land in the west.

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

Who is singing or dancing about anything. You'd want to take a deep breath and calm down and relax there.


I simply responded to someone whinging about dairy men 'getting everything' and moaning that nobody would give him a grant for a new combine if he wanted one. Nobody will give me a grant for a new combine either. And whatever grant I could get for a new cattle shed, he could get as well.



As for consolidation, you can't stop progress. Quotas were a terrible thing for 99% of people. Nobody with a small quota was better off before than they could be now. There are fellas going into dairy that never saw a cow up close before quotas were abolished. If the lifelong 20k-gallon-quota dairy farmer can't use his headstart to keep ahead of the newbie then he needs to get out of the game anyway. It would be highly unlikely that he'd have been making a decent living off it under quota if he can't do it after restrictions were lifted.



I'm not sure what the chip on your shoulder apparently is. I'm not sure if you are against the removal of quota, begrudge that it wasn't removed earlier or think it should have been removed far earlier. I'd be soundly in the latter camp.

Dawg was simply pointing out the dairy hypocrisy of moaning about every other sectors bps while still holding the hand out for market intervention and free money. Wanting free of the cuddly blanket and not expecting the lowest of margins cause there was no market ready for all the extra milk to turn it into high value and needing put on a boat. Though i fear thats gone over your head.

Donald Trump

Waffletraktor wrote: »

Dawg was simply pointing out the dairy hypocrisy of moaning about every other sectors bps while still holding the hand out for market intervention and free money. Wanting free of the cuddly blanket and not expecting the lowest of margins cause there was no market ready for all the extra milk to turn it into high value and needing put on a boat. Though i fear thats gone over your head.

No dude. He was going on about tillage and beef men being enticed to switch to dairy and going on about it was easier to switch from beef to dairy than beef to tillage (which would be completely untrue).


He never mentioned bps. And nobody is moaning about other sectors bps. Simply pointing out facts in response to errors in what was claimed.



You still have this "cuddly blanket" thing in your head. That's just some kind of delusion you need to get over. You know what a superlevy was?

Waffletraktor

Donald Trump wrote: »

No dude. He was going on about tillage and beef men being enticed to switch to dairy and going on about it was easier to switch from beef to dairy than beef to tillage (which would be completely untrue).


He never mentioned bps. And nobody is moaning about other sectors bps. Simply pointing out facts in response to errors in what was claimed.



You still have this "cuddly blanket" thing in your head. That's just some kind of delusion you need to get over. You know what a superlevy was?

In your 1st post you moaned about some guys bps ffs....
Is the superlevy the same bill they moved the goalposts to accomodate guys who couldnt grasp the concept of quota? Or do these things not matter to big time real farmers

yosemitesam1

Waffletraktor wrote: »

In your 1st post you moaned about some guys bps ffs....
Is the superlevy the same bill they moved the goalposts to accomodate guys who couldnt grasp the concept of quota? Or do these things not matter to big time real farmers

How cheaply could one run things for a small to medium tillage farm?
Would the likes of a simtech do for drilling, contract out harvesting but then presumably get rode on sprays compared to your prices?

Would things really have to be grouped into small coops for it to make any sense for the circa 100acre farm who doesn't want to just lease it out and doesn't want to take on lots more land to spread costs?

Panch18

There are a lot of dairy farmers worse off because of quota removal - whether they know it or not is another thing

Busy fools we’ve become. And our farm is most definitely in that queue

jaymla627

Panch18 wrote: »

There are a lot of dairy farmers worse off because of quota removal - whether they know it or not is another thing

Busy fools we’ve become. And our place is most definitely in that queue

Quiet bemused at where the 2 euro per kilo of milk solids debt level per cow on Irish farms was pulled from re moorepark open day, ifac who had access to proper accounts over the past 4 years of 2000 plus dairying clients had it at 116,000 per farm with a average herd size of 75 cows for2018 and that’s just borrowings not merchant credit etc which they also had up 5% from last year, their figure is closer to 4 euro per kilo of ms of a debt level, have no time for Teagasc myself but the mindless peddling of misinformation to come to a set of figures to hammer home their own mantra of dairy farming needs to stop....
The only reason for the rapid rise in dairy cow numbers is like you said we are all having to go harder/produce more just to standstill, the easy money that was their to be made dairying is long gone as costs have risen and milk prices have stagnated with the hopes of anything over 31-32 cent base price a pipe dream

Donald Trump

Panch18 wrote: »

There are a lot of dairy farmers worse off because of quota removal - whether they know it or not is another thing

Busy fools we’ve become. And our farm is most definitely in that queue

Was a bit silly though to have a system where you were restricted on what you could produce today based on what your father (or grandfather) produced back in the day! Would you not agree? A fella with capacity to easily and efficiently expand his production and actually earn a few quid being prevented to so because he doesn't have a "right" to supply it

Panch18

Donald Trump wrote: »

Was a bit silly though to have a system where you were restricted on what you could produce today based on what your father (or grandfather) produced back in the day! Would you not agree? A fella with capacity to easily and efficiently expand his production and actually earn a few quid being prevented to so because he doesn't have a "right" to supply it

It was much easier to “earn a few quid” back then than it is now that’s for sure

wrangler

Donald Trump wrote: »

Was a bit silly though to have a system where you were restricted on what you could produce today based on what your father (or grandfather) produced back in the day! Would you not agree? A fella with capacity to easily and efficiently expand his production and actually earn a few quid being prevented to so because he doesn't have a "right" to supply it

It shouldn't have been allowed, it was totally uncompetitve to not allow other farmers to get into what was, at the time, an attractive enterprise.
Even the inequity of the present entitlements doesn't come close to the inequity of those quotas that went on for 30 years

Say my name

wrangler wrote: »

It shouldn't have been allowed, it was totally uncompetitve to not allow other farmers to get into what was, at the time, an attractive enterprise.
Even the inequity of the present entitlements doesn't come close to the inequity of those quotas that went on for 30 years

Speaking from a small time dairy producer.
You couldn't even expand at the time inside the business let alone anyone from outside in. The quota simply wasn't available.
We were stuck for a long time at 25,000 gallons and edged up to 30 after a good few years. Then new entrants were given 45k milk quota and when I applied for quota to bring me up to the 45k I was told sorry by Catherine Lascurettes that there was no provision for existing suppliers only new entrants.
Then you had the sfp being given to the beef and tillage producers and only when it went onto a per ha basis did we get something. And even still in some people's eyes that'd only buy two dairy cows.
The farm is in a hell of a better place than it was in my father's and my early time.

There's lots of people should walk in other people's shoes myself included. Maybe theyd come away with a different perspective.

These threads always descend into b1tch fests with ye still having to do the same farmwork when the phone is put down.:rolleyes:

wrangler

Say my name wrote: »

Speaking from a small time dairy producer.
You couldn't even expand at the time inside the business let alone anyone from outside in. The quota simply wasn't available.
We were stuck for a long time at 25,000 gallons and edged up to 30 after a good few years. Then new entrants were given 45k milk quota and when I applied for quota to bring me up to the 45k I was told sorry by Catherine Lascurettes that there was no provision for existing suppliers only new entrants.
Then you had the sfp being given to the beef and tillage producers and only when it went onto a per ha basis did we get something. And even still in some people's eyes that'd only buy two dairy cows.
The farm is in a hell of a better place than it was in my father's and my early time.

There's lots of people should walk in other people's shoes myself included. Maybe theyd come away with a different perspective.

These threads always descend into b1tch fests with ye still having to do the same farmwork when the phone is put down.:rolleyes:

Those thirty years, if you were the right age and no ambition to improve, left some with a very handy career. along with good machinery and plenty help
The ones that had ambition were worse especially if you were trying to rent some nice land against them.
It was like every EU SCHEME, if you were one side of the imaginery line you were ****ed and if you were the other side you were made up.

Mind you I still bow to Ray Mc Sharry every morning when i get up

Gawddawggonnit

I’ve been around a while, proba

Donald Trump

Panch18 wrote: »

It was much easier to “earn a few quid” back then than it is now that’s for sure

Perhaps for yourself. You might have been in a relatively priviliged position. You might have had a decent enough quota and been happy with the status quo and the elimination of potential competition in the form of other producers who might be able to expand and produce more economically if allowed to.

Say my name wrote: »

Speaking from a small time dairy producer.
You couldn't even expand at the time inside the business let alone anyone from outside in. The quota simply wasn't available.
We were stuck for a long time at 25,000 gallons and edged up to 30 after a good few years. Then new entrants were given 45k milk quota and when I applied for quota to bring me up to the 45k I was told sorry by Catherine Lascurettes that there was no provision for existing suppliers only new entrants.
Then you had the sfp being given to the beef and tillage producers and only when it went onto a per ha basis did we get something. And even still in some people's eyes that'd only buy two dairy cows.
The farm is in a hell of a better place than it was in my father's and my early time.

There's lots of people should walk in other people's shoes myself included. Maybe theyd come away with a different perspective.

These threads always descend into b1tch fests with ye still having to do the same farmwork when the phone is put down.:rolleyes:

Was a similar situation here. The grandfather who had always had a few cows I think was started stuck on 16-18k gallons. He either hadn't really understood or cared too much, the implications of the quota.
A neighbour who never had cows previously started up and got the 45k as a new entrant. The neighbour stayed in it for 15 or so years then got some scheme where he returned his quota and got paid for 2 years as if he was supplying it. Something like that.


Quota was bought in dribs and drabs through the 90's to build it up to a potentially feasible figure. Then more in the 2000s when more was available as people knew it was coming to an end. Since quota was lifted, we're supplying more than double previously what we we restricted to sending when quota ended. The only infrastructure needed was a larger bulk tank! No cows bought in or anything like that. We could have been producing near enought the same in the 1980s or 1990s as today. Still had the milking parlour, still had to get them in twice and milk them twice a day. Anyone who tries to think we'd have been better off sticking with the 16k gallon quota might want to make sure they hire a good accountant rather than doing their own books!

Birdnuts

jaymla627 wrote: »

Quiet bemused at where the 2 euro per kilo of milk solids debt level per cow on Irish farms was pulled from re moorepark open day, ifac who had access to proper accounts over the past 4 years of 2000 plus dairying clients had it at 116,000 per farm with a average herd size of 75 cows for2018 and that’s just borrowings not merchant credit etc which they also had up 5% from last year, their figure is closer to 4 euro per kilo of ms of a debt level, have no time for Teagasc myself but the mindless peddling of misinformation to come to a set of figures to hammer home their own mantra of dairy farming needs to stop....
The only reason for the rapid rise in dairy cow numbers is like you said we are all having to go harder/produce more just to standstill, the easy money that was their to be made dairying is long gone as costs have risen and milk prices have stagnated with the hopes of anything over 31-32 cent base price a pipe dream

Yep - if folk want a look at future margins when it comes to the current policies on dairy in this country they should read up on the current sad state of the pig and poultry industry

Gawddawggonnit

I’ve been around awhile.
I’ve been paid to get out of cows, circa 1982(?), and then I was paid to get back INTO cows, circa 1988. Great times, and a true license to print.
In the early eighties, I think, I was paid to exit dairy because of brucellosis. Then in 1984 quota was brought back into a quota regime and what a jackpot! In 1988, I’m not entirely certain of the dates here folks, but I got paid an obnoxious sum to return into dairy. Milked around 120 cows, got a quota given to me free/gratuit, because I’m ‘WORTH’ it (?), and then I actually BOUGHT some quota, as you would(!), and dwelled in the hippie, hoppy, happy, land that was a protected market...The Job! Happy days!

Nothing sickens the sh1t of me more than the ‘businessmen’ that were dairy farmers in the quota years. You’d have to be as thick as bottled sh1t not to make huge dollar in those years. Fact. I know ‘cos I was there...!

Now...circa 2014...
The Irish Gov decided, along with Teagasc (etc) that dairy was/is the ‘white haired boy’ of farming in Ireland. This is what I’ve a little problem with.
Dairy is the only show in town...*IF* Gov/Teagasc et al decide it is so. End of.

Tams was put in place for exclusively dairy farmers. Again, end of.
The fact that beef or sheep farmers, or even farmers that wanted to change enterprise, qualified for the windfall that is Tams is irrelevant. The requisite qualifications were...DAIRY COWS. That’s it. That’s all you had to to do to qualify for for extremely generous grants...Lovely!

Tillage farmers, a friend informs me, are supposedly making more than the ‘average´ dairy farmer, according to today’s IFJ. How perfectly timed that eruption of bull shyte from the IFJ. Moorepark ‘19 was a huge success.

I’ll leave it at that.




I’ll discuss this thread with any evenly weighted intellectual people...save , Gozunda, Say my name, Donald trump and a few more fcukwits that don’t come to mind.



Btw. I sold my milk quota for an obscene amount of money before reality hit the sector...a quota that I shouldn’t ever have been given ownership of. But that’s only a small part of the story....:).

Say my name

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’ve been around awhile.
I’ve been paid to get out of cows, circa 1982(?), and then I was paid to get back INTO cows, circa 1988. Great times, and a true license to print.
In the early eighties, I think, I was paid to exit dairy because of brucellosis. Then in 1984 quota was brought back into a quota regime and what a jackpot! In 1988, I’m not entirely certain of the dates here folks, but I got paid an obnoxious sum to return into dairy. Milked around 120 cows, got a quota given to me free/gratuit, because I’m ‘WORTH’ it (?), and then I actually BOUGHT some quota, as you would(!), and dwelled in the hippie, hoppy, happy, land that was a protected market...The Job! Happy days!

Nothing sickens the sh1t of me more than the ‘businessmen’ that were dairy farmers in the quota years. You’d have to be as thick as bottled sh1t not to make huge dollar in those years. Fact. I know ‘cos I was there...!

Now...circa 2014...
The Irish Gov decided, along with Teagasc (etc) that dairy was/is the ‘white haired boy’ of farming in Ireland. This is what I’ve a little problem with.
Dairy is the only show in town...*IF* Gov/Teagasc et al decide it is so. End of.

Tams was put in place for exclusively dairy farmers. Again, end of.
The fact that beef or sheep farmers, or even farmers that wanted to change enterprise, qualified for the windfall that is Tams is irrelevant. The requisite qualifications were...DAIRY COWS. That’s it. That’s all you had to to do to qualify for for extremely generous grants...Lovely!

Tillage farmers, a friend informs me, are supposedly making more than the ‘average´ dairy farmer, according to today’s IFJ. How perfectly timed that eruption of bull shyte from the IFJ. Moorepark ‘19 was a huge success.

I’ll leave it at that.




I’ll discuss this thread with any evenly weighted intellectual people...save , Gozunda, Say my name, Donald trump and a few more fcukwits that don’t come to mind.



Btw. I sold my milk quota for an obscene amount of money before reality hit the sector...a quota that I shouldn’t ever have been given ownership of. But that’s only a small part of the story....:).

Just replying to save this beauty from editing.

Seriously?
For a supposedly educated man you make some poor decisions.
Mods. Deal with it.

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

I’ve been around awhile.
I’ve been paid to get out of cows, circa 1982(?), and then I was paid to get back INTO cows, circa 1988. Great times, and a true license to print.
In the early eighties, I think, I was paid to exit dairy because of brucellosis. Then in 1984 quota was brought back into a quota regime and what a jackpot! In 1988, I’m not entirely certain of the dates here folks, but I got paid an obnoxious sum to return into dairy. Milked around 120 cows, got a quota given to me free/gratuit, because I’m ‘WORTH’ it (?), and then I actually BOUGHT some quota, as you would(!), and dwelled in the hippie, hoppy, happy, land that was a protected market...The Job! Happy days!

Nothing sickens the sh1t of me more than the ‘businessmen’ that were dairy farmers in the quota years. You’d have to be as thick as bottled sh1t not to make huge dollar in those years. Fact. I know ‘cos I was there...!

Now...circa 2014...
The Irish Gov decided, along with Teagasc (etc) that dairy was/is the ‘white haired boy’ of farming in Ireland. This is what I’ve a little problem with.
Dairy is the only show in town...*IF* Gov/Teagasc et al decide it is so. End of.

Tams was put in place for exclusively dairy farmers. Again, end of.
The fact that beef or sheep farmers, or even farmers that wanted to change enterprise, qualified for the windfall that is Tams is irrelevant. The requisite qualifications were...DAIRY COWS. That’s it. That’s all you had to to do to qualify for for extremely generous grants...Lovely!

Tillage farmers, a friend informs me, are supposedly making more than the ‘average´ dairy farmer, according to today’s IFJ. How perfectly timed that eruption of bull shyte from the IFJ. Moorepark ‘19 was a huge success.

I’ll leave it at that.




I’ll discuss this thread with any evenly weighted intellectual people...save , Gozunda, Say my name, Donald trump and a few more fcukwits that don’t come to mind.



Btw. I sold my milk quota for an obscene amount of money before reality hit the sector...a quota that I shouldn’t ever have been given ownership of. But that’s only a small part of the story....:).

For the typical 100 acre farm, what sort of options is there for crops as oppose to dairy,/beef? Bar tams buying overspecced machinery for us.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

For the typical 100 acre farm, what sort of options is there for crops as oppose to dairy,/beef? Bar tams buying overspecced machinery for us.

Good question Sam.

As was confirmed in the Teagasc 2020 plan, it was recognized that small farms have very little hope of surviving in such small scale, whether it be dairy or otherwise, I’d be concentrating on low volume, high value output.
Maybe organic?