Fake ID Card and nightclub

Mr.Frame

So I wish to relay something that happened to a relative of mine last week and would be interested in hearing peoples views.

He's 17 and like most teenagers he has a fake "ID" to get into bars and clubs (if possible)

Anyway, last week he was all dressed up, him and his friends decided to go to a well known club in town..

He got to the door, the bouncer looked at his "ID" and told him , he wasnt getting in and if he wanted his ID back , he could go to Pearse St Garda Station the next day to collect it.

Needless to say, he was ( and his friends) were disappointed at not getting in (we've all been there)

So my question is this. I am fully aware Fake "IDs" are not legal, but had the bouncer the right to keep it ? and tell my relative to collect it at Pearse St Gards Stn the next day??

I'm of the opinion that the ID is my relatives and the bouncer in question didnt act properly in doing what he did.

Any thoughts?

thanks

Pawwed Rig

No idea whether it is 'legal' or not. Point is though what are you* going to do about it?

*or your 'friend'.

Allinall

Was it a fake Garda id?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If it's a fake Garda Age card, he can confiscate it.

WoollyRedHat

You would have to say it's all relative.

squawker

punisher5112

Go straight to the cop shop and demand the illegal card back...

Mr.Frame

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

No idea whether it is 'legal' or not. Point is though what are you* going to do about it?

*or your 'friend'.

Well thats the thing I dont know what to do about it. If the bouncer in question acted illegally as it were, then would i have a case to complain to the establishment.

And , eh its a relative and not " a friend" though relatives can be friends as well

RobbingBandit

Kevin Ramage cards ain't kewl got to go to Gutenberg he's awesome

Mr.Frame

Jadiel Shrilling Sprinter wrote: »

If it's a fake Garda Age card, he can confiscate it.

Wasnt a Garda age card but another type

hynesie08

If it's a fake garda ID he should be glad the bouncer took it and didn't call the gardai. (which they're fully entitled to do). If it's someone else's and they couldn't prove its theirs, the bouncer is obligated to hand it in to the gardai as lost/stolen property.

Either way, tough ****...

punisher5112

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Well thats the thing I dont know what to do about it. If the bouncer in question acted illegally as it were, then would i have a case to complain to the establishment.

And , eh its a relative and not " a friend" though relatives can be friends as well

Yes they will entertain you no issues at all.

They will be delighted with the feed back and will offer all the friends and family member in for free drinks... They deserve a coke after that but they wouldn't be able to serve alcohol.

BattleCorp

No way the bouncer bothered his hole to go down to the Garda Station and hand in the card, not a fcuking chance.

I'd say he probably binned it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Let's cut out the rambling. Specifically what type of ID was it?

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Wasnt a Garda age card but another type

Stephen15

Yes the bouncer has the right to keep the ID and hand it to the Gardai if they believe it's fake however if it turns out to be real which it won't in this case they would be in serious trouble from what I gather.

I don't understand why bouncers do this never happened to me as I was one of the oldest out of my group of friends but has happened to my friends when I was younger. Surely the easier thing for them to do would be to refuse admission but give back the ID.

Mr.Frame

BattleCorp wrote: »

No way the bouncer bothered his hole to go down to the Garda Station and hand in the card, not a fcuking chance.

I'd say he probably binned it.

My thoughts exactly

daheff

so technically what the bouncer did was theft. you (sorry your relative) can make a complaint to the gardai about it and see if they prosecute him.... or you/your relative for fraud.

if its a genuine id, then you should request that the bouncer show you id so you can report it genuinely & ensure the id is returned (& bouncer suitably admonished by gardai)

hynesie08

daheff wrote: »

so technically what the bouncer did was theft.

How

MrFresh

BattleCorp wrote: »

No way the bouncer bothered his hole to go down to the Garda Station and hand in the card, not a fcuking chance.

I'd say he probably binned it.

They generally drop them down every couple of weeks.

daheff

hynesie08 wrote: »

How

took something that wasnt his from its "owner".

Stephen15

BattleCorp wrote: »

No way the bouncer bothered his hole to go down to the Garda Station and hand in the card, not a fcuking chance.

I'd say he probably binned it.

I'm not sure could be an agreement that club is told by the Gardai to confiscate any fake IDs and to give them to them at the end of the night or the next day

Allinall

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Wasnt a Garda age card but another type

What kind of “another type”?

Your relative could be in relatively serious trouble.

Get Real

Nothing you/ your relation can do.

He had a fake ID, and was taken off him. A risk of the game.

If he has that much of a brass neck to think "how dare someone take this off me"/ is going down the "you had no right to take my illegal fake ID off me" route:
I'm sure he can report it to the Garda station, give his full name, address and details, claim the fake ID was his property, and see what happens.

Again, he played, he lost. I'd advise move on.

hynesie08

daheff wrote: »

took something that wasnt his from its "owner".

Yeah, but there's no intent to deprive, if it is yours, pop down the garda Station the next day with some sort of proof and you get it back.

Not theft.

ShooterSF

As someone who works in a bar I'd never bother keeping the ID but I have little sympathy for your relative who is happy to try and deceive the establishment and risk the livelihoods of the owners and staff if they were caught serving underage customers. Our bar has caught a few people using fakes and other peoples ID and have had a nice surprise 18th birthday present for them when they arrive in with the real ID to find out they are taking a few months holidays first.

kowloon

Never needed a fake ID when I was underage, different times.

daheff

hynesie08 wrote: »

Yeah, but there's no intent to deprive, if it is yours, pop down the garda Station the next day with some sort of proof and you get it back.

Not theft.

there was. he took it off the op and the op was without it for at least the rest of the night. not sure how you dont see it as depriving? just because bouncer claimed it could be retrieved from the gardai the next day doesnt mean its not theft... try it with your car/tv/wallet/credt card (insert legally held asset here) and see how it sounds.

Atlantic Dawn

It would be like a drug dealer walking in to Pearse Street Station and demanding Gardaí investigate the theft of a kilo of the finest cocaine money can buy.

FTA69

I was a bouncer for years and never did this despite the array of ridiculous sh*t I’ve seen handed in to me before. It’s needlessly confrontational for a start and robbing some young lad of his ID is just going to result in an earache etc I couldn’t have been dealing with.

“I don’t think this is genuine mate so I’m not allowing you in tonight.” End of story really. Bouncer sounds like a pain in the hole.

Mr.Frame

FTA69 wrote: »

I was a bouncer for years and never did this despite the array of ridiculous sh*t I’ve seen handed in to me before. It’s needlessly confrontational for a start and robbing some young lad of his ID is just going to result in an earache etc I couldn’t have been dealing with.

“I don’t think this is genuine mate so I’m not allowing you in tonight.” End of story really. Bouncer sounds like a pain in the hole.

Well yes I agree, I thought the bouncer could have acted as you outlined above.

hynesie08

daheff wrote: »

there was. he took it off the op and the op was without it for at least the rest of the night. not sure how you dont see it as depriving? just because bouncer claimed it could be retrieved from the gardai the next day doesnt mean its not theft... try it with your car/tv/wallet/credt card (insert legally held asset here) and see how it sounds.

Nope, if the person could prove it was theirs there wouldn't be any issue, but if there's no proof it's yours it's not theft.

Bobblehats

ShooterSF wrote: »

As someone who works in a bar I'd never bother keeping the ID but I have little sympathy for your relative who is happy to try and deceive the establishment and risk the livelihoods of the owners and staff if they were caught serving underage customers.

At least he’s not deceiving himself. Fake ID is one thing but a fake id is another

punisher5112

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It would be like a drug dealer walking in to Pearse Street Station and demanding Gardaí investigate the theft of a kilo of the finest cocaine money can buy.

Something similar actually happened, the guy is up for deportation and went to the Gardai to complain about the drugs he purchased....

MrFresh

daheff wrote: »

there was. he took it off the op and the op was without it for at least the rest of the night. not sure how you dont see it as depriving? just because bouncer claimed it could be retrieved from the gardai the next day doesnt mean its not theft... try it with your car/tv/wallet/credt card (insert legally held asset here) and see how it sounds.

What about the dishonesty requirement for theft?

punisher5112 wrote: »

Something similar actually happened, the guy is up for deportation and went to the Gardai to complain about the drugs he purchased....

I know of another chap who wanted to make an ombudsman complaint that the Garda who seized his car stole his heroin. He said he would drop the complaint if he didn't have to pay the fine for the seizure of his car. His car was searched and the heroin was found.

BattleCorp

Would the bouncer be open to a defamation claim and theft claim if the ID turned out to be genuine?

TheValeyard

Ye were caught out, get over it. And next time get a better quality fake ID.

blindside88

You say it wasn’t a fake Garda ID. The only other forms of identification I’m aware of are fake drivers license or passport, if it was one of these your relative better hope it’s not dropped to the Garda station or they could be in serious trouble

Irishphotodesk

Mr.Frame wrote: »

So I wish to relay something that happened to a relative of mine last week and would be interested in hearing peoples views.

He's 17 and like most teenagers he has a fake "ID" to get into bars and clubs (if possible)

Anyway, last week he was all dressed up, him and his friends decided to go to a well known club in town..

He got to the door, the bouncer looked at his "ID" and told him , he wasnt getting in and if he wanted his ID back , he could go to Pearse St Garda Station the next day to collect it.

Needless to say, he was ( and his friends) were disappointed at not getting in (we've all been there)

So my question is this. I am fully aware Fake "IDs" are not legal, but had the bouncer the right to keep it ? and tell my relative to collect it at Pearse St Gards Stn the next day??

I'm of the opinion that the ID is my relatives and the bouncer in question didnt act properly in doing what he did.

Any thoughts?

thanks

OP, your relative tried to commit fraud and a “false instrument” was removed from his possession, are you honestly asking if your relative should do something about it?

If you are, he/she should count their lucky stars that they are not in a lot more trouble, how difficult is it for your relative to wait a few months to legally socialize in a pub/club ?

Yes, many people try their luck with fake IDs .... they are also committing fraud, doesn’t make it ok to do it, simply because others are doing it.

If your relative had gotten into the venue and was served alcohol and later in the night was involved in a situation where they were either assaulted/accused of sexual assault etc...... would you be looking to blame the venue for not recognizing the fake ID?

Or

If the venue was raided while your relative was inside and the venue was shut down or fined for selling alcohol to minors, would you or your relative be willing to pay the fine? Or would you be willing to pay the staffs wages until the place reopened?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Jadiel Shrilling Sprinter wrote: »

Let's cut out the rambling. Specifically what type of ID was it?

Allinall wrote: »

What kind of “another type”?

Your relative could be in relatively serious trouble.

Until the OP enlightens us as to what the ID was, the discussion is pointless.

Assuming there was an ID in the first place,

sydthebeat

The name "McLoving" was a give away.....

Balanadan

punisher5112 wrote: »

Go straight to the cop shop and demand the illegal card back...

Like the erudite chap who went to the Gardai to complain about the quality of his illegal drugs :pac:

razorblunt

He gambled, the house won. Move on.

If the card was someone else's have them go to the Garda station to pick it up, if they want it. If its a college ID just get a new one.

super_furry

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/pictured-man-who-went-to-garda-to-complain-over-quality-of-his-drugs-38173180.html

Was this your relative?

Twenty Grand

sydthebeat wrote: »

The name "McLoving" was a give away.....

Or even "McLovin"

I actually looked that up just in case and his DOB on the license was 1981. Makes me feel old.

tjhook

blindside88 wrote: »

You say it wasn’t a fake Garda ID. The only other forms of identification I’m aware of are fake drivers license or passport, if it was one of these your relative better hope it’s not dropped to the Garda station or they could be in serious trouble

First thought I had was that it could be a fake student card. Even the word "fake" could mean a couple of things. It could be a card he put together himself using a laminator. I can see how a bouncer would laugh at that. Or a card with manual alterations made to it. Or it could be a genuine student card, but one where the date of birth is incorrect. I.e. he specified an incorrect DoB when he applied for a USIT card.

arybvtcw0eolkf

FTA69 wrote: »

I was a bouncer for years and never did this despite the array of ridiculous sh*t I’ve seen handed in to me before. It’s needlessly confrontational for a start and robbing some young lad of his ID is just going to result in an earache etc I couldn’t have been dealing with.

“I don’t think this is genuine mate so I’m not allowing you in tonight.” End of story really. Bouncer sounds like a pain in the hole.

Like FTA I worked the doors for years (25 yrs) and we're almost always in agreement on these things.

I've never taken someone's ID, and sometimes even if I knew it was fake if they were cool teens I might turn a blind eye. Last door I worked was a rock bar in Templebar (Gypsy Rose) which is closed now.

Being a rock bar it got a good crowd, a young crowd downstairs for the DJ and metal music and an older one upstairs.

Bouncers aren't ID experts or trained to recognize fake ID, 'nor are they passport control, so I always made the call on common sense.

When my kids hit their teens then used to bring their fake ID to me to check it out before heading into town lol.

Its a common sense call like I said.

With or without ID scum won't be coming in anyway.

And regardless what age they look always ask a traveler for ID, because they never carry any

OP your relative played the game and lost. Just tell them to get more fake ID and not to present it to that particular bouncer or club again for awhile.

biko

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that the ID is my relatives and the bouncer in question didnt act properly in doing what he did.

How about you head down to Pearse St Gards Stn and report it?


Is that you Arthur Liwembe?

Cee-Jay-Cee

Mr.Frame wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that the ID is my relatives and the bouncer in question didnt act properly in doing what he did.

Ah get over yourself, how can someone be so self-righteous while complaining about getting caught using fake (illegal) ID :rolleyes:

STB.

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Well thats the thing I dont know what to do about it. If the bouncer in question acted illegally as it were, then would i have a case to complain to the establishment.

Have you considered asking in the legal forum about it ?


This would be bread and butter stuff to them. I think you've a great case.



You should defo pursue it. You'll get thousands.

Mr.Frame

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Ah get over yourself, how can someone be so self-righteous while complaining about getting caught using fake (illegal) ID :rolleyes:

Absolutely not being self righteous whatsoever.

As I stated earlier , we've ALL used fake IDs growing up,its part of growing up.

My query was, whether the bouncer had a right to take it. Thats it, nothing more, nothing less.

Mr.Frame

STB. wrote: »

Have you considered asking in the legal forum about it ?


This would be bread and butter stuff to them. I think you've a great case.



You should defo pursue it. You'll get thousands.

Thanks.

I actually dont need the money, I'm loaded. Got lucky one day when I answered an email from an Nigerian Price.