Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

biko

Better off learning Chinese, the next business language

nkl12xtw5goz70

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Strong words coming out of the stone age cretins in East Belfast tonight.

Apparently the DUP now regrets not supporting May's deal, which at least would have avoided a border in the Irish sea.

Their Paisley approach of saying NO to everything has backfired.

It's become clear that many Brexiteers don't give a toss about the Unionists in the North. Andrea Jenkyns has said: "My constituency is miles away from Northern Ireland. My constituents want Brexit done, so I'll be voting to support Boris."

ancapailldorcha

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

I wonder if Brexit will finally force the Irish government to introduce proper foreign language education at primary level, so that future generations are better equipped to live and work in other EU countries.

I can't imagine so to be honest. I'd say kids will just have to try French or German at second level and take classes or something sadly.

Joseph Moldy Golfer

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

Apparently the DUP now regrets not supporting May's deal, which at least would have avoided a border in the Irish sea.

We'll, D'oh!

But, even if Brexit goes no further significant damage has been done to the union of GB and NI.

A majority of MPs (and those that voted against, apart from the DUP, voted so for other reasons) voted last night for a withdrawal agreement that said NI really isn't "like us" - that NI are hangers on that are tolerated rather than cherished.

Would MPs have done this to Cornwall, London or, god help us, the famous Finchley. The would in their ballsacks.

manbitesdog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I can't imagine so to be honest. I'd say kids will just have to try French or German at second level and take classes or something sadly.

While it remains the de facto “global” language, you’ll struggle to convince a large percentage of native English speakers to learn other languages.

manbitesdog

biko wrote: »

Better off learning Chinese, the next business language

When are they joining the EU?

Mad_maxx

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

Apparently the DUP now regrets not supporting May's deal, which at least would have avoided a border in the Irish sea.

Their Paisley approach of saying NO to everything has backfired.

It's become clear that many Brexiteers don't give a toss about the Unionists in the North. Andrea Jenkyns has said: "My constituency is miles away from Northern Ireland. My constituents want Brexit done, so I'll be voting to support Boris."

Ulster unionists have been horribly indulged by every quarter for far too long, even the tory Party are tired of their self righteous intransigence

begsbyOnaTrain

On the way to work I see many hoardings and real time ads as part of the government's Brexit readiness campaign. "There's 9 DAYS to get Brexit ready," said one this morning. Yeah right. I wonder if they'll roll over to -x days after Halloween

26000 Elephants

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

Apparently the DUP now regrets not supporting May's deal, which at least would have avoided a border in the Irish sea.

Their Paisley approach of saying NO to everything has backfired.

It's become clear that many Brexiteers don't give a toss about the Unionists in the North. Andrea Jenkyns has said: "My constituency is miles away from Northern Ireland. My constituents want Brexit done, so I'll be voting to support Boris."

The concerns of Unionists in the north was never more than one of many bargaining chips used by Brexit negotiators, to be conceded or dumped as and when needed. The DUP had a good hand, but completely overplayed it, and now they are left in a far worse position. And abortion decriminalised to boot!

biko

https://ig.ft.com/brexit-countdown/
8 DAYS
12 HOURS

ancapailldorcha

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

Apparently the DUP now regrets not supporting May's deal, which at least would have avoided a border in the Irish sea.

Their Paisley approach of saying NO to everything has backfired.

It's become clear that many Brexiteers don't give a toss about the Unionists in the North. Andrea Jenkyns has said: "My constituency is miles away from Northern Ireland. My constituents want Brexit done, so I'll be voting to support Boris."

In 2016, concerns about Northern Ireland were dismissed as project fear. Of course, Johnson's deal does alleviate concerns about a hard border but it also has the effect of nudging Belfast in terms of political alignment towards Dublin and Brussels. Of course, this could have been predicted in 2016 but that would have cost the DUP a chance to posture about a union that most English people had forgotten even exists.

nkl12xtw5goz70

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

In 2016, concerns about Northern Ireland were dismissed as project fear. Of course, Johnson's deal does alleviate concerns about a hard border but it also has the effect of nudging Belfast in terms of political alignment towards Dublin and Brussels. Of course, this could have been predicted in 2016 but that would have cost the DUP a chance to posture about a union that most English people had forgotten even exists.

Indeed. The ardency with which Unionists proclaim their fealty to the UK is not reciprocated. An IPSOS Mori poll found that three in four adults who live in mainland Britain have never visited Northern Ireland. Just 2 percent have lived or worked there. No surprise, then, that only 36 percent of Britons say they would mind if Northern Ireland left the union.

CalamariFritti

Apologies if this has been posted before. Thought it was funny.

https://twitter.com/julianpopov/status/1185664196178042880

Nice work from Joe

https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1187673908020948993?s=20

Beasty

Threads merged

Eric Cartman

Macron alegedly asking for a 5th november limit on any extension. Hopefully it goes no or that, January would be a complete farce and just allow remoaners derail it more.

Not a johnson fan but by christ has he tried to deliver what he promised.

Tropheus

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Not a johnson fan but by christ has he tried to deliver what he promised.

Johnson is doing the exact opposite. Do you think what is on the table now delivers on the promises he and others made prior to the referendum?

Tropheus

Tropheus wrote: »

Johnson is doing the exact opposite. Do you think what is on the table now delivers on the promises he and others made prior to the referendum?

Agreed, this is "getting Brexit Done" come hell or high water. It's just a politicising of Brexit to better position for the GE.

ohnonotgmail

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Macron alegedly asking for a 5th november limit on any extension. Hopefully it goes no or that, January would be a complete farce and just allow remoaners derail it more.

Not a johnson fan but by christ has he tried to deliver what he promised.

and failed

knipex

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Macron alegedly asking for a 5th november limit on any extension. Hopefully it goes no or that, January would be a complete farce and just allow remoaners derail it more.

Not a johnson fan but by christ has he tried to deliver what he promised.

January would achieve nothing. Just allow them to run another bloody election and get another hung parliament and we end up in the same place again but with the Brexit party where the DUP were and pushing for a hard Brexit.

downcow

Joseph Moldy Golfer wrote: »

Indeed. The ardency with which Unionists proclaim their fealty to the UK is not reciprocated. An IPSOS Mori poll found that three in four adults who live in mainland Britain have never visited Northern Ireland. Just 2 percent have lived or worked there. No surprise, then, that only 36 percent of Britons say they would mind if Northern Ireland left the union.

I am pleasantly surprised by those figures. I am always amazed how many Southerners have not visited NI - I would guess its a similar number. and I didnt think as many as 36% of Brits would mind NI leaving (considering that everyone knows that the only way NI will leave is if the majority of NI people want to leave). It is nice to know that in that scenario over 20 million people would be sad to see us go - remarkable.

The question is how many people in the ROI would be glad to see us arrive? LOL

shesty

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Apologies if this has been posted before. Thought it was funny.

https://twitter.com/julianpopov/status/1185664196178042880

I thought this was great.Subtle, but sums it all up so well.It doesn't matter how many extension they get anyway, they fundamentally cannot agree what they want.The one thing they want is to just walk out but they inconveniently have NI dragging on their ankle, and unless something major changes on that front, there will always be a problem.

I have said it before though, while I think it probably edges unification closer, it leaves us with a nasty problem...the Brits won't be dealing with NI if they manage to get rid of it AND leave the EU.Bigger fish to fry.Leaving us to pick up the poeces socially and economically.

ancapailldorcha

downcow wrote: »

I am pleasantly surprised by those figures. I am always amazed how many Southerners have not visited NI - I would guess its a similar number. and I didnt think as many as 36% of Brits would mind NI leaving (considering that everyone knows that the only way NI will leave is if the majority of NI people want to leave). It is nice to know that in that scenario over 20 million people would be sad to see us go - remarkable.

The question is how many people in the ROI would be glad to see us arrive? LOL

I was hoping you would surface at some point.

How do you feel about the way that the DUP has been treated and about Johnson's betrayal of Unionists via the Irish sea border?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am pleasantly surprised by those figures. I am always amazed how many Southerners have not visited NI - I would guess its a similar number. and I didnt think as many as 36% of Brits would mind NI leaving (considering that everyone knows that the only way NI will leave is if the majority of NI people want to leave). It is nice to know that in that scenario over 20 million people would be sad to see us go - remarkable.

The question is how many people in the ROI would be glad to see us arrive? LOL

The next thing you have to work out is how 'minded' that 36% are that you leave.

I 'minded' that the UK is leaving the EU, but there is a limit (it has been reached) to how much I mind.

downcow

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I was hoping you would surface at some point.

How do you feel about the way that the DUP has been treated and about Johnson's betrayal of Unionists via the Irish sea border?

Not over the moon. Boris has an amazing ability to say one thing (anything) one day and the opposite the next. So yes a clear betrayal.
DUP have done a very poor job so far. They sat back and allowed ROI/SDLP/SF/etc to convince EU of the terrible trouble there would be if there was a hard border and the awful derogation that would be to nationalist identity, and said nothing of the issues and derogation of identity that Irish sea border would bring, and trusted a few politicians to not give in, including Boris of all people.

I do think this has still a long way to run

downcow

I have said for two years that a equal bit of derogation of identity for both sides in NI to swallow would seem fair and better for the future.
A very hard land border and little Irish sea checks would not be good for stability and indeed my community would have taken any backlash. It saddens me that we now have the flip of that and the people i share this island with may well take a backlash.
Hopefully sense and equality will prevail

Danzy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Agreed, this is "getting Brexit Done" come hell or high water. It's just a politicising of Brexit to better position for the GE.

So he is no different to the opposition then, though Labour are Remainers for Leave which is political as well. Trying to keep their middle class activists and their working class areas joined up.

Danzy

downcow wrote: »

Not over the moon. Boris has an amazing ability to say one thing (anything) one day and the opposite the next. So yes a clear betrayal.
DUP have done a very poor job so far. They sat back and allowed ROI/SDLP/SF/etc to convince EU of the terrible trouble there would be if there was a hard border and the awful derogation that would be to nationalist identity, and said nothing of the issues and derogation of identity that Irish sea border would bring, and trusted a few politicians to not give in, including Boris of all people.

I do think this has still a long way to run

The Sdlp convince someone?

All jokes aside, Boris didn't need convincing to let the North go, nor did his own party or British society have an issue with it.

downcow

Danzy wrote: »

The Sdlp convince someone?

All jokes aside, Boris didn't need convincing to let the North go, nor did his own party or British society have an issue with it.

Read again what I said. I didn’t say anyone convinced boris or British. I said they convince key eu people.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not over the moon. Boris has an amazing ability to say one thing (anything) one day and the opposite the next. So yes a clear betrayal.
DUP have done a very poor job so far. They sat back and allowed ROI/SDLP/SF/etc to convince EU of the terrible trouble there would be if there was a hard border and the awful derogation that would be to nationalist identity, and said nothing of the issues and derogation of identity that Irish sea border would bring, and trusted a few politicians to not give in, including Boris of all people.

I do think this has still a long way to run

So can we have the same opinion of Unionists playing up Loyalist unrest?

BTW, the objection to a 'hard border' was multi pronged, and it did offer the prospect of an upswing in violence, whether you think people were lying or not.

The EU and Dublin focused mainly on the obstacle to economic health it posed.