The life of an Irish cow is pretty sweet...

onrail

I was driving through the countryside last week, saw a field of cows basking in the sunshine happily munching on grass and thought to myself... Jesus don't cows have it great. Seriously.

Led to fresh pasture every day, brought in for milking and delicious dairy ration twice a day. No long commute, no mortgage, no Gemma O' Doherty, unaware of their eventual demise.

Sure, they're slaughtered later on in life, but it's hard to argue that they're aware of that eventuality, even when seconds from the bolt. I'd almost choose that over a long and painful death that seems to be all to common in our society

Not saying that it's all rosy - there's an obvious downside in mothers being separated from their offspring early on, but that tends to be forgotten in a matter of days or weeks at a maximum.

So, leaving aside environmental concerns for now, is the ethical argument against animal products valid in the context of the Irish dairy cow? And before you start posting links like crazy, I'm not defending the more 'factory' type food production: battery hens, zero grazing etc etc.

jester77

Too true... they have 4 stomachs as well, how awesome is that.

Boom_Bap

They have to walk around in their sh*te and other cows sh*te all day.
I wonder if they can tell the difference.

In primary school, we learnt a poem that started as follows:


Half the time they munched the grass, and all the time they lay
Down in the water-meadows, the lazy month of May,
A-chewing,
A-mooing,
To pass the hours away...

kneemos

Unless you're a bull calf. Expect to have your nuts drop off and meet a bolt gun as soon as you're mature.

onrail

kneemos wrote: »

Unless you're a bull calf. Expect to have your nuts drop off and meet a bolt gun as soon as you're mature.

Valid point

Force Carrier

The live transport crammed into ship holds is pretty unpleasant. That's not dairy cows but the point stands.

Mad_maxx

onrail wrote: »

I was driving through the countryside last week, saw a field of cows basking in the sunshine happily munching on grass and thought to myself... Jesus don't cows have it great. Seriously.

Led to fresh pasture every day, brought in for milking and delicious dairy ration twice a day. No long commute, no mortgage, no Gemma O' Doherty, unaware of their eventual demise.

Sure, they're slaughtered later on in life, but it's hard to argue that they're aware of that eventuality, even when seconds from the bolt. I'd almost choose that over a long and painful death that seems to be all to common in our society

Not saying that it's all rosy - there's an obvious downside in mothers being separated from their offspring early on, but that tends forgotten in a matter of days or weeks at a maximum.

So, leaving aside environmental concerns for now, is the ethical argument against animal products valid in the context of the Irish dairy cow? And before you start posting links like crazy, I'm not defending the more 'factory' type food production: battery hens, zero grazing etc etc.

Cows in Ireland in the overwhelming majority of cases have a very pleasant life, they are blissfully unaware of what is going to happen in the slaughter House at the end of their life

Funnily enough the kind of liberals who screech about the cruelty of the meat factories tend to go all quiet when it comes to the area of halal slaughter

Can't be having the " islamaphobia"

TuringBot47

onrail wrote: »

No long commute, no mortgage, no Gemma O' Doherty

It's as if they're on social welfare.

kneemos

kneemos wrote: »

Unless you're a bull calf. Expect to have your nuts drop off and meet a bolt gun as soon as you're mature.

You have to be a bull calf to have nuts to remove

Plumbthedepths

Force Carrier wrote:

The live transport crammed into ship holds is pretty unpleasant. That's not dairy cows but the point stands.

Free cruise.

Guy:Incognito

I want to go to bovine university.

Force Carrier

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Free cruise.

That's a moot point.

Plumbthedepths

Force Carrier wrote:

That's a moo(t) point.

FYP.

Deebles McBeebles

I like cows, beautiful animals. I feel for them.

No joke.

Aceandstuff

Imagine being literally made of steak...

Outlaw Pete

Yeah, that's the image our tourist board would like to portray alright but a few years ago when the Americans asks us to fulfill a regular order of grass fed beef we couldn't do it and in the end made a deal on beef that was 80% grass fed.

Not having a go at our farmers, they work hard and are forever squeezed but the quality of our beef is nowhere near what it was just 10 to 15 years ago unless you go out of your way to get premium product.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Cows in Ireland in the overwhelming majority of cases have a very pleasant life, they are blissfully unaware of what is going to happen in the slaughter House at the end of their life

Funnily enough the kind of liberals who screech about the cruelty of the meat factories tend to go all quiet when it comes to the area of halal slaughter

Can't be having the " islamaphobia"

I was wondering how long it would take


The answer is 8


8 posts :rolleyes:

jcorr

The life of a cow isn't very easy. They usually are "in calf" for 9 months and then they are milking straight for about six months. There is an overlap between those two periods of course. When a cow is getting close to calving period, they will be dried off with 'holidays' usually for about two months, but they will still be heavy in calf. That cycle will continue for an adult cow for about ten years.

A cow might give enough milk in a day to fill two large buckets which is pretty heavy to carry and very stressful for the animal. They also have to contend with bullies in the herd believe it or not. The bullying behavior usually displays itself closer to milking time when the cows are very stressed.

Thelonious Monk

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Funnily enough the kind of liberals who screech about the cruelty of the meat factories tend to go all quiet when it comes to the area of halal slaughter

Can't be having the " islamaphobia"

Do you have an example of these liberals going quiet about this issue?
Who sells the cows to these halal folk by the way?

Timberrrrrrrr

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you have an example of these liberals going quiet about this issue?
Who sells the cows to these halal folk by the way?

I find it even funnier when you point out that kosher food is slaughtered without stunninng yet never a peep about this.

biko

The life of Indian cows must be even better, treated like gods like.

Thelonious Monk

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I find it even funnier when you point out that kosher food is slaughtered without stunninng yet never a peep about this.

A peep from who? "Liberal types" by which the poster probably meant people who don't wish cruelty upon animals? Do you really think that they are ok with animal cruelty and mistreatment if it's done by Jews or Muslims? That's just ridiculous.

fonecrusher1

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I like cows, beautiful animals.

Beautifully delicious in a brioche burger bun! Yummy.

Timberrrrrrrr

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

A peep from who? "Liberal types" by which the poster probably meant people who don't wish cruelty upon animals? Do you really think that they are ok with animal cruelty and mistreatment if it's done by Jews or Muslims? That's just ridiculous.

Several people on several threads talking about the cruelty of halal, Not a single poster mentions Kosher even though kosher slaughter is worse than halal, You would swear they had an agenda

Boom_Bap

Its all moo's and poo's.

VicMackey1

jester77 wrote: »

Too true... they have 4 stomachs as well, how awesome is that.

Technically, cows only have one stomach. There is four compartments within that stomach though!

ILoveYourVibes

Force Carrier wrote: »

The live transport crammed into ship holds is pretty unpleasant. That's not dairy cows but the point stands.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animaltransport/

It is pretty regulated though.

decky1

ah but would you want someone touching your tits twice a day.? and maybe the odd time putting their arm up your --Well i'll leave it at that.

ILoveYourVibes

Did YOU know ...cows eat birds.

Sometimes deer and horses do too.

Like they kill them and eat them.

Force Carrier

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animaltransport/

It is pretty regulated though.

Ah they churn out these paper regulations

ILoveYourVibes

Force Carrier wrote: »

Ah they churn out these paper regulations

Ride in the back with them a few times.

See for yourself.

Work on a farm for bit.

You can write about it.

Thelonious Monk

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Several people on several threads talking about the cruelty of halal, Not a single poster mentions Kosher even though kosher slaughter is worse than halal, You would swear they had an agenda

like myself, they probably just know nothing about it!

Force Carrier

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

like myself, they probably just know nothing about it!

You can't just repeat something you herd without researching it properly.

ILoveYourVibes

I don't know anything about halal but shechita is not really done outside of israel.

The animals are stunned though. And they are really precise about allowing no time between stunning and severing so the animal can't regain sensation.

They can't regain consciousness that way.

If you stun animals conventionally a lot of time is allowed to pass between stunning and slaughtering and they can sometimes regain consciousness.

I think a lot of people just think the animals are not stunned etc. Or they see some horrible video online where the animals are not stunned.

I am pretty sure they stun animals in halal too. But i know less about that.

Also the reason its not really done much shechita i mean is that its not just about the slaughter ...its very time consuming after etc.

Panch18

jcorr wrote: »

The life of a cow isn't very easy. They usually are "in calf" for 9 months and then they are milking straight for about six months. There is an overlap between those two periods of course. When a cow is getting close to calving period, they will be dried off with 'holidays' usually for about two months, but they will still be heavy in calf. That cycle will continue for an adult cow for about ten years.

A cow might give enough milk in a day to fill two large buckets which is pretty heavy to carry and very stressful for the animal. They also have to contend with bullies in the herd believe it or not. The bullying behavior usually displays itself closer to milking time when the cows are very stressed.

Oh Jim, I despair - for you that is, not for any cow

ILoveYourVibes

jcorr wrote: »

The life of a cow isn't very easy. They usually are "in calf" for 9 months and then they are milking straight for about six months. There is an overlap between those two periods of course. When a cow is getting close to calving period, they will be dried off with 'holidays' usually for about two months, but they will still be heavy in calf. That cycle will continue for an adult cow for about ten years.

A cow might give enough milk in a day to fill two large buckets which is pretty heavy to carry and very stressful for the animal. They also have to contend with bullies in the herd believe it or not. The bullying behavior usually displays itself closer to milking time when the cows are very stressed.

They would breed the same amount in the wild though. And violence in herd animals in the wild is just life.

Yeah we have to temper that etc. But you have to let them be cows.

Panch18

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animaltransport/

It is pretty regulated though.

People make me laugh - cows travelling like the queen for long distance travel while the people "concerned" about them are stuck on the DART or the LUAS with someone's face in their face during rush hour traffic, packed in like sardines

Oh the irony

ILoveYourVibes

Panch18 wrote: »

People make me laugh - cows travelling like the queen for long distance travel while the people "concerned" about them are stuck on the DART or the LUAS with someone's face in their face during rush hour traffic, packed in like sardines

Oh the irony

What is wrong with this video???

And there IS something wrong by the way. But i want to know if you can spot it.

Be honest if you can't.

gozunda

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Yeah, that's the image our tourist board would like to portray alright but a few years ago when the Americans asks us to fulfill a regular order of grass fed beef we couldn't do it and in the end made a deal on beef that was 80% grass fed.

Not having a go at our farmers, they work hard and are forever squeezed but the quality of our beef is nowhere near what it was just 10 to 15 years ago unless you go out of your way to get premium product.

Its not really that difficult to understand that in Ireland most cattle are housed in the winter and the worst of the weather. Leaving stock outdoors in poor weather has welfare issues with land being poached and with little or no grass available.

Here's an experiment to try - next winter go and lease a couple of fields and a decent cattle shed with some feed. Put the cattle out in the fields and leave them there but also leave the door of the cattle shed open and see how quick the same cattle will head indoors.

If you want good beef - source locally or find a good independent butcher and dont buy poor quality supermarket rubbish.

Unike most of Europe - cattle here are kept outdoors for most of the year and are in the main grassfed. However with our climate - their are times this is not always possible or desirable.

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What is wrong with this video???

And there IS something wrong by the way. But i want to know if you can spot it.

Be honest if you can't.

Fine looking horses - well looked after by the look of their condition etc. Should they be fully tacked up that trailer? Plus they dont seem to be tied ...

Hobosan

gozunda wrote: »

Here's an experiment to try - next winter go and lease a couple of fields and a decent cattle shed with some feed. Put the cattle out in the fields and leave them there but also leave the door of the cattle shed open and see how quick the same cattle will head indoors.

You can go a step further there. Many a Winter, as an experiment, I'd leave construction tools/materials in the field and the Cows start constructing a shed for themselves.

storker

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What is wrong with this video???

And there IS something wrong by the way. But i want to know if you can spot it.

Be honest if you can't.

They're not keeping their eyes on the road.

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Fine look horses - well looked after by the looks of their condition etc. Should they be fully tacked up that trailer? Plus they dont seem to be tied ...

Exactly you never tack up a horse in a trailer. In case of accidents or even just falling to the side etc with the movement of it. If the saddle goes round from a knock and the horse panics etc.

And the type of trailer etc there is more stuff for it to get knock and caught on cuz of the divider.

Lots of people still do it though. And have them ride in a bridle even sometimes.

Yep they are well looked after.

And they are not tied as you said.


But would a lot of people know really what to object to about cattle traveling??

I mean they don't seem to realize a tight space can make it safer etc.

I mean that divider is there for a reason.

Also the way you should humanely transport animals depends on the vehicle. And the individual animal.

Tying up some horses just helps them be steady on their feet.

Gating cattle etc can be for their own safety.

Hobosan

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Exactly you never tack up a horse in a trailer. In case of accidents or even just falling to the side etc with the movement of it. If the saddle goes round from a knock and the horse panics etc.

And the type of trailer etc there is more stuff for it to get knock and caught on cuz of the divider.

Lots of people still do it though. And have them ride in a bridle even sometimes.

Yep they are well looked after.

And they are not tied as you said.


But would a lot of people know really what to object to about cattle traveling??

I mean they don't seem to realize a tight space can make it safer etc.

I mean that divider is there for a reason.

Also the way you should humanely transport animals depends on the vehicle. And the individual animal.

Tying up some horses just helps them be steady on their feet.

Gating cattle etc can be for their own safety.

It might not be perfect, but the Japanese are looking on in envy.

ILoveYourVibes

Hobosan wrote: »

It might not be perfect, but the Japanese are looking on in envy.

I'm lost.

Panch18

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Exactly you never tack up a horse in a trailer. In case of accidents or even just falling to the side etc with the movement of it. If the saddle goes round from a knock and the horse panics etc.

And the type of trailer etc there is more stuff for it to get knock and caught on cuz of the divider.

Lots of people still do it though. And have them ride in a bridle even sometimes.

Yep they are well looked after.

And they are not tied as you said.


But would a lot of people know really what to object to about cattle traveling??

I mean they don't seem to realize a tight space can make it safer etc.

I mean that divider is there for a reason.

Also the way you should humanely transport animals depends on the vehicle. And the individual animal.

Tying up some horses just helps them be steady on their feet.

Gating cattle etc can be for their own safety.

Great post

ILoveYourVibes

Also people make the mistake that if an animal is content or happy then it's safe. That is not true.

Obviously we don't want them unhappy. But it doesn't mean they are in a safe situation.

gozunda

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I'm lost.

Think of Japanese style transport for humans being squeezed like sardines by officially paid pusher-iners or the concept of coffin hotels there.

Of horse - it always amazes me that horses will quite happily get in a trailer and be transported at speed to wherever they are going with hardly a blink of an eye - let them see an empty crisp packet and some will try climb ing the nearest tree

ILoveYourVibes

gozunda wrote: »

Think of Japanese style transport for humans being squeezed like sardines by officially paid pusher-iners or the concept of coffin hotels there.

Of horse - it always amazes me that horses will quite happily get in a trailer and be transported at speed to wherever they are going with hardly a blink of an eye - let them see an empty crisp packet and some will try climb ing the nearest tree

I know. :rolleyes:

I could write a paragraph about horses and plastic blue things.

gozunda

Hobosan wrote: »

You can go a step further there. Many a Winter, as an experiment, I'd leave construction tools/materials in the field and the Cows start constructing a shed for themselves.

This is very true - cows are real cute hours when it comes to building and the like. Last year the neighbour went away for the weekend only to find on his return that the cattle had been busy and built a brand new sauna and solarium! He was of course delighted and both him and the cows are looking very well this year ...