Climate emergency -why are dublin airport expanding

Beechwoodspark

With the huge climate emergency that is ongoing at the moment why are the likes of Dublin airport expanding and building another run way?

Ireland has become the second country in the world to declare a climate EMERGENCY.

The decision was made after an amendment to a parliamentary climate action report was agreed by both the Government and the opposition parties.

Climate Action Minister Richard Bruton said climate change has been "rightly" described as the greatest challenge facing humanity.

There’s more carbon dioxide in our atmosphere than any time in human history

In May, sensors at the Mauna Loa observatory in Hawaii – which has tracked Earth’s atmospheric concentration of CO2 since the late 1950s – detected a CO2 concentration of 415.26 ppm. The last time Earth's atmosphere contained this much CO2 was more than three million years ago, when sea levels were several metres higher and trees grew at the South Pole. Scientists have warned that carbon dioxide levels higher than 450ppm are likely to lock in catastrophic and irreversible changes in the climate. Around half of the CO2 emitted since 1750 has been in the last 40 years.

So why are Dublin airport and the aviation industry in Ireland given permission to “carry on regardless” and build another runway?

Every other sector is getting lectures day and night about becoming green this and green that. And no harm. It is an EMERGENCY after all?!

I tried to bring this up on another thread but was sent here.

Jupiter Mulligan

We need to expand Dublin airport mainly so there is sufficient capacity to enable Green fanatics, Government Ministers, other TDs and County Councillors, to fly business class to the countless conferences on the Global Warming crisis that are taking place all over the world on a regular basis.

Oh and also so Joxer, his partner and their five kids can fly to Torremolinos and Santa Ponza for their thrice yearly holliers.

biko

The climate emergency was only declared to be able to hike taxes, not to stop business growth.

weldoninhio

Because it isn't a real emergency. It's just that hippies have access to the internet now and can scream that the sky is falling and create a movement of gullible fools.

Gunmonkey

biko wrote: »

The climate emergency was only declared to be able to hike taxes, not to stop business growth.

That or the ministers purchase of shares in companies selling wind turbines/solar panels/electric car charge points finally went through.

Beechwoodspark

It’s either an emergency or it’s not surely

pconn062

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It’s either an emergency or it’s not surely

Do not expect sensible, reasonable discussion about this topic on this site.

Pkiernan

Will Climate Alarmists reduce their internet use?

Try googling grams of CO2 per Google search!

thequarefellow

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because it isn't a real emergency. It's just that hippies have access to the internet now and can scream that the sky is falling and create a movement of gullible fools.

How can the wiping out of 60% of life on the planet over 40 yrs be classed as anything other than an emergency?

Deub

Just for curiosity, what percentage of the CO2 emissions does the aviation represent ?

thequarefellow

Tax exemption on aviation fuel has to end. Yes, I know this would mean less foreign holidays for everyone. I'm ok with that. Some people shouldn't be allowed out of the country anyway:)

is_that_so

Deub wrote: »

Just for curiosity, what percentage of the CO2 emissions does the aviation represent ?

3.5% according to this but could rise a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation

The Rape of Lucretia

thequarefellow wrote: »

How can the wiping out of 60% of life on the planet over 40 yrs be classed as anything other than an emergency?

Is the evidence clear that it will affect humans ? If not, then, meh. Wiping out other species is not in itself a problem.

On Dublin airport. Its already bursting. The south gates (even the term is laughable) are a prefab disgrace, forcing you to get a bus 50 yards, go into the building and back out again to get on a bus which then does a full loop of terminal 2 pier to unload you into it. The new runway is urgent, and a third terminal already late.

Thelonious Monk

There is an emergency, we're destroying everything on Earth and temperatures are rising. There won't be much left that isn't toxic sooner or later. However the Government don't actually care, the only thing that matters to the Government, and perhaps those who vote for them as they keep doing it, is economic growth. GDP should not be used to measure human happiness but that appears to be their model.
We live in a totally private car-centric country, with the lowest tree cover in Europe, the island is basically a giant beef farm and it's only going to continue that way any PT projects get shut down and drawn out by NIMBYism and bumbling idiot politicians.
So whatever the Gov say about the climate is just a rouse to try and satisfy people concerned with environmental issues, but none of us are that stupid to believe they care, I hope.

bigroad

Is there an emergency in Asia or the USA.
Its a bit like trying to fix a small puncture in a tyre while there are multiple big holes in same tyre.

Blueshoe

bigroad wrote: »

Is there an emergency in Asia or the USA.
Its a bit like trying to fix a small puncture in a tyre while there are multiple big holes in same tyre.

It's like trying to keep the tide out with a bucket. And paying more taxes for the pleasure of doing it.

A gullible bunch

Thelonious Monk

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's like trying to keep the tide out with a bucket. And paying more taxes for the pleasure of doing it.

A gullible bunch

So we should just do nothing about the situation in Ireland regarding wildlife, polluted waterways, trees, poor planning, reliance on fossil fuels, etc etc.?

Blueshoe

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So we should just do nothing about the situation in Ireland regarding wildlife, polluted waterways, trees, poor planning, reliance on fossil fuels, etc etc.?

0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland.

I'm all for change but Ireland's idea of change is a change in tax rate. Ie punish people without giving them an alternative.

Beechwoodspark

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is the evidence clear that it will affect humans ? If not, then, meh. Wiping out other species is not in itself a problem.

On Dublin airport. Its already bursting. The south gates (even the term is laughable) are a prefab disgrace, forcing you to get a bus 50 yards, go into the building and back out again to get on a bus which then does a full loop of terminal 2 pier to unload you into it. The new runway is urgent, and a third terminal already late.

No way. No new runway.

Are you mad ?

Do you realise co2 is higher now than any time in human history and climate chaos is only starting??

What is needed urgently is the aviation industry is wound down unless and until carbon neutral flying is introduced.

Thelonious Monk

Blueshoe wrote: »

0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland.

I'm all for change but Ireland's idea of change is a change in tax rate. Ie punish people without giving them an alternative.

forget about the rest of the world. Do you not want a cleaner Ireland? There are serious issues in Ireland with pollution and reliance on fossil fuels that won't be around forever.

Blueshoe

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

forget about the rest of the world. Do you not want a cleaner Ireland? There are serious issues in Ireland with pollution and reliance on fossil fuels that won't be around forever.

You didn't read the second part of my answer. Sorry I edited it

thequarefellow

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Wiping out other species is not in itself a problem.

“Our society is moving in the direction of permitting, reinforcing, and in some cases actually valuing some of the traits listed in the Psychopathy Checklist.” —Robert Hare

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is the evidence clear that it will affect humans ?

Yes, it is.
Read this, this or this

thequarefellow

Blueshoe wrote: »

It's like trying to keep the tide out with a bucket. And paying more taxes for the pleasure of doing it.

A gullible bunch

The problem with this argument is that it just gives carte blanche to polluters to continue as usual.
We don't have to accept higher (and especially un-targeted) taxes.
We do have to clean up our own backyard - simply because the stench is directly affecting our own health.

kneemos

Flying uses no more fuel per passenger than driving.

It's a handy whipping dog,but as is often the case with the climate scare industry it won't make any difference and detracts from the real problems.

thequarefellow

kneemos wrote: »

Flying uses no more fuel per passenger than driving.

It's a handy whipping dog,but as is often the case with the climate scare industry it won't make any difference and detracts from the real problems.

What are the real problems?

Beechwoodspark

Just in case anyone thinks ppl are over reacting or scare mongering ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation

kneemos

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just in case anyone thinks ppl are over reacting or scare mongering ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation

Every engine emits those gases.

weldoninhio

weldoninhio wrote: »

Because it isn't a real emergency. It's just that hippies have access to the internet now and can scream that the sky is falling and create a movement of gullible fools.

Those renowned fanatical hippies made up of tenured science professors?

antix80

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ireland has become the second country in the world to declare a climate EMERGENCY.

What if I told you there was no emergency?

thequarefellow

antix80 wrote: »

What if I told you there was no emergency?

The term is irrelevant. The issue is apparent to anyone who is willing to open their eyes and inform themselves. I certainly am not swayed by any move our government makes - they have their own selfish reasons for any declaration.

cgcsb

Other areas of human activities have realistic low carbon/no carbon alternatives. Aviation currently has no realistic alternative except for high speed rail. High speed rail has already decimated domestic aviation across Europe and more could be done, Spain could ban internal flights, bar the islands for example. Ireland could stop subsidising flights from Dublin to Kerry. We are an island though and there's just no alternative option for us. Electric plane technology will probably take off in the coming years though:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Electric

thequarefellow

Environmental impact aside. Are Dubliners okay with increasing visitor numbers? Is there not a case for decentralising air traffic in and out of the country?

Beechwoodspark

thequarefellow wrote: »

Environmental impact aside. Are Dubliners okay with increasing visitor numbers? Is there not a case for decentralising air traffic in and out of the country?

We shouldn’t move the problem to rural Ireland there should be the following:

Cancellation of any expansion plans for Dublin airport.

Reduce number of flights over the next 3/5/10 yrs

High taxes on carriers which increase in bands of 3 routes. So for example if a carrier wants to add more routes the taxes increase exponentially

Green tax on all flight bookings

Minimum price on all flight bookings

Green tax on all carriers and daa itself.

And investment in zero/low carbon alternative transport solutions like solar powered passenger ships.

Thelonious Monk

thequarefellow wrote: »

Environmental impact aside. Are Dubliners okay with increasing visitor numbers? Is there not a case for decentralising air traffic in and out of the country?

We might want to widen the paths in the city centre and get private cars out of there too because it's pretty much at capacity and hard to even walk around certain parts

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Blueshoe wrote: »

0.13% of global emissions come from Ireland.

I'm all for change but Ireland's idea of change is a change in tax rate. Ie punish people without giving them an alternative.

I agree. Quotas are a more equitable solution.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

We shouldn’t move the problem to rural Ireland there should be the following:

Cancellation of any expansion plans for Dublin airport.

Reduce number of flights over the next 3/5/10 yrs

High taxes on carriers which increase in bands of 3 routes. So for example if a carrier wants to add more routes the taxes increase exponentially

Green tax on all flight bookings

Minimum price on all flight bookings

Green tax on all carriers and daa itself.

And investment in zero/low carbon alternative transport solutions like solar powered passenger ships.

Passenger ships are a horrible way to leave the island. Or get here.

The effect of your policies would be devastating on tourism.

Is there any way to make flights carbon neutral?

Thelonious Monk

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Passenger ships are a horrible way to leave the island. Or get here.

The effect of your policies would be devastating on tourism.

Is there any way to make flights carbon neutral?

Maybe the world can keep flying if we clean up our act in other regards

cgcsb

There's lots of low hanging fruit in terms of reducing emissions without impacting on aviation, a sector without any realistic alternatives for Ireland. The mainland have growing high speed rail networks. There should be an EU wide ban on short haul flights within the mainland, cheap flights between Barcelona and Madrid should not be competing with the very expensive, 350km/h high speed railway. Those people should be filling seats on trains instead. Places like Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, The Canaries etc. depend on aviation.

Thelonious Monk

cgcsb wrote: »

There's lots of low hanging fruit in terms of reducing emissions without impacting on aviation, a sector without any realistic alternatives for Ireland. The mainland have growing high speed rail networks. There should be an EU wide ban on short haul flights within the mainland, cheap flights between Barcelona and Madrid should not be competing with the very expensive, 350km/h high speed railway. Those people should be filling seats on trains instead. Places like Ireland, Cyprus, Malta, The Canaries etc. depend on aviation.

You could say the same for Ireland though that we can only fly to major hubs in Europe and then take trains from there instead of having flights to every town in Croatia and Slovenia which seems to be the way it’s going.

cgcsb

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You could say the same for Ireland though that we can only fly to major hubs in Europe and then take trains from there instead of having flights to every town in Croatia and Slovenia which seems to be the way it’s going.

Once you're in the air and travelling a good distance, whether you land in Zadar and stay there or land in Zagreb and take a bus to Zadar, the carbon saving would infact be negative or near negative for the hassle involved

weldoninhio

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

We shouldn’t move the problem to rural Ireland there should be the following:

Cancellation of any expansion plans for Dublin airport.

Reduce number of flights over the next 3/5/10 yrs

High taxes on carriers which increase in bands of 3 routes. So for example if a carrier wants to add more routes the taxes increase exponentially

Green tax on all flight bookings

Minimum price on all flight bookings

Green tax on all carriers and daa itself.

And investment in zero/low carbon alternative transport solutions like solar powered passenger ships.

OK Helen Lovejoy. :rolleyes:

We should probably ban Santa too, think of all the methane gas those reindeer emit into the atmosphere.

Beechwoodspark

weldoninhio wrote: »

OK Helen Lovejoy. :rolleyes:

We should probably ban Santa too, think of all the methane gas those reindeer emit into the atmosphere.

Thanks for that. If you have a serious contribution next time let me know.

Beechwoodspark

Good to see Norwegian winding down operations in Dublin airport.

Hopefully now that the climate emergency message seems to getting through with the public, a few more routes will be wound down.

Then of course the low hanging fruit of “cheap flights booked on a whim” needs to be tackled big time. Taxes are the answer there.

Beechwoodspark

Just to say I do have sympathy for any staff involved in Norwegian operations hopefully they can find new employment and even better if it is in a low/zero carbon sector.

cgcsb

Norwegian's business model was flawed, they didn't cease operation because they care about the environment.

Beechwoodspark

cgcsb wrote: »

Norwegian's business model was flawed, they didn't cease operation because they care about the environment.

I know that but I am saying it’s positive that we have less routes and air traffic

Long may it continue.

cgcsb

electric aviation is on it's way:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/08/aviation-electric-planes-climate-change/

cgcsb

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I know that but I am saying it’s positive that we have less routes and air traffic

Long may it continue.

It wont continue, in fact aviation will grow exponentially in this country. The slots freed up by Norwegian are already being fought over. 2019 will be the busiest year ever for Dublin Airport, perhaps tipping 34m passengers.

Beechwoodspark

cgcsb wrote: »

It wont continue, in fact aviation will grow exponentially in this country. The slots freed up by Norwegian are already being fought over. 2019 will be the busiest year ever for Dublin Airport, perhaps tipping 34m passengers.

Yeah it’s a shame when you consider how serious the environment emergency is

Hopefully the greens can put some manners on Dublin airport when they next get into power

Dublin airport needs to be drastically reducing its activities not increasing them

I live in hope of low/zero emission aviation and when/If that day arrives then Dublin airport can expand away.

Beechwoodspark

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Yeah it’s a shame when you consider how serious the environment emergency is

Hopefully the greens can put some manners on Dublin airport when they next get into power

The airport is just providing the service. If you can persuade people to stop booking flights it will fold up in no time.

Beechwoodspark

cgcsb wrote: »

It wont continue, in fact aviation will grow exponentially in this country. The slots freed up by Norwegian are already being fought over. 2019 will be the busiest year ever for Dublin Airport, perhaps tipping 34m passengers.

I would propose a heavy tax on carriers, and on individual fares themselves so that ppl think long and hard before air travel

Modern technology means most business travel can be more or less phased out now. Skype etc.