Manual or automatic?

rabbidpeach

I’ve been learning to drive on and off for about the last 8 or 9 months. As of yesterday I’ve done 17 lessons. However, that’s all I’ve done. I don’t have anyone who can accompany me so I’ve been unable to get any practice outside of the lessons.

My first 13 lessons were in a manual diesel but my instructor at the time advised me to go automatic instead. He said that the diesel clutch was very forgiving and that the way I was driving it would not work well with a petrol. So I took three lessons in an automatic and it felt great. I had more of an opportunity to focus on the road ahead of me and less time fretting over what gear I was in or whether I’d stall the thing.

However, it has been suggested that my work could provide me with a car if I pass the test and I’d assume that this is reliant on me handling a manual. So I rearranged two lessons in a manual to see if things have changed at all. Yesterday, the instructor suggested that I drive home to Drogheda from where I work in north Dublin! Went along the old N2 and then across through Duleek and Platin. I could see why my previous instructor said the diesels are more forgiving as I must have stalled it about 10 times on the way. This time, my current instructor said he could see that I’m more nervous in the manual and that my observations are suffering.

I don’t know what to do. If it weren’t for work, I’d just say feck it, do the automatic and accept the code 78 on the licence. What do you think; should I slog away with the manual?

u140acro3xs7dm

Go for the manual, it will take more practice, but it will be worth it. If you get your manual licence you can still purchase an automatic, but if you get an automatic you will never learn to drive properly. Plenty of practice is all it takes, and one day it will just click.

MascotDec85

Ask the new instructor to take you somewhere quiet and master the control of the clutch. If you’re having trouble with it trying to master it in traffic when you’re anxious about it isn’t going to help. Work on moving off and stopping countless times until you’re getting it automatically. Use an estate like Rathmullan Park or even Donore Rd along by Funtasia.

Watch this video too. https://youtu.be/8ofUKNQyYBg

cruizer101

rabbidpeach wrote: »

My first 13 lessons were in a manual diesel but my instructor at the time advised me to go automatic instead. He said that the diesel clutch was very forgiving and that the way I was driving it would not work well with a petrol.

That sounds like a bad instructor to me, why not teach you better rather than advise you against.
You would be far better to learn manual as gives you far more flexibility driving others people cars and that.

KAGY

Petrol/diesel cars are being phased out by 2030 and all electric cars are automatic. Just something to keep in mind.

If getting an auto licence will get you on the road earlier you could always sit the full test a few years down the line.

However, auto cars are less plentiful so you'll have less choice in the 2nd hand market

tedpan

Switch to an automatic, it's what my wife did and she was far more comfortable on the test with less to worry about.

No need to worry about flexibility, cars are moving towards electric, hybrid and other fuel sources, all of which have automatic transmissions.

Also the majority of rental cars across the world are automatic so you'll have no issue when traveling. Anybody that says different isn't moving with the times...

MascotDec85

You’ll get a split of opinion here and really the only opinion that matters.....is your own.

MrMusician18

The problem here is not manual or automatic but the fact that you're not getting to practice outside of lessons. You'll find it extremely hard to build confidence without practice.

Any instructor telling you to abandon manual because it's not forgiving enough is an instructor that's not worth paying.

just4klix

From what you say driving seems a big chore for you, so go for an AT. The additional cost/rarity of AT cars is a quirk in the Irish region, elsewhere you will be just fine.

Also, dont just assume that your Co wants you to drive an MT. Unless you are driving some kind of van/cargo vehicle, they wont even bother whether your license has restriction to drive only AT.

Shefwedfan

Manual is dying, it was a technology that was good in the 70/80's. Automatic is a better technology

US etc phased out manual in over 90% of cars years ago.

People say to keep manual in case you need for something, not sure what? even new tractors these days are automatic.

The market is moving to hybrid/electric and they only come in automatic. Buy an automatic and it holds it value better.

Shefwedfan

Noe Curved Potato wrote: »

Go for the manual, it will take more practice, but it will be worth it. If you get your manual licence you can still purchase an automatic, but if you get an automatic you will never learn to drive properly. Plenty of practice is all it takes, and one day it will just click.

Why?


I don't understand this, what exactly is not driving properly with automatic?


I have manual license, but I would never drive or buy a manual again

rabbidpeach

OmegaGene wrote: »

Chopping and changing gearbox and instructors isn’t a great idea, when I learned to drive the first dozen or so lessons was all about clutch control and moving up and down the gears and it eventually becomes second nature.
Practice more in the manual and then you will have the best of both worlds when you pass the test

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The problem here is not manual or automatic but the fact that you're not getting to practice outside of lessons. You'll find it extremely hard to build confidence without practice.

Yeah, about that, I don't have family nearby and my other half is still on N plates so can't accompany me. I did my first 13 lessons in Drogheda and Dundalk with the same instructor but was only able to do them once a week, if even, at weekends. I have a very long commute by bus during the week so just had no time to do lessons in Drogheda. My 13th lesson went terribly and I almost packed in driving altogether.

So after a few months of doing nothing I decided to try again in Dublin with a new instructor where I could get two or three a week during lunch or after work. But as the last lesson went so badly, I wanted to try automatic to get my confidence back somewhat.

just4klix wrote: »

From what you say driving seems a big chore for you, so go for an AT. The additional cost/rarity of AT cars is a quirk in the Irish region, elsewhere you will be just fine.

It does feel very daunting for me, in all honesty I never really wanted to do it, but needs must now.

zepman

OmegaGene wrote: »

I agree with you 100% , I had no practice outside of lessons and it took me 40 lessons to get test ready for the test, I was a complete noob at my first lesson

More than 5 years ago, I did my 12 EDT lessons + about 20 additional lessons. Even then, I failed my first test as I had no practice outside of those lessons.

Had given up until earlier this year. Bought a car, did 10 lessons with a different instructor, went out for practice between the lessons (with a mate from work accompanying me) and two months later I passed the test.

@OP
I was no stranger to the clutch thanks to those lessons from years back, but inspite of that, I was stalling during the lessons/practice sessions this year. It takes quite some practice to really get used to it.

I was always nervous through all my lessons/practice and a bit even after passing the test. There were days I would wish for the lesson to get cancelled.:D But it kept getting better with practice.
At no point did my instructors ever say anything to suggest that the nervousness affects my driving and that it will stay that way.

However, if you do feel like you would be more comfortable doing an automatic, I would check with your work if an automatic is also an option in what they can provide.

The One Doctor

I went with auto, never a problem and I drive a hybrid anyway so there's no manual version. As for driving 'properly'... a car is a car. Autos are much more relaxing to drive and leave more mental capacity for looking outside.

Shefwedfan

rabbidpeach wrote: »

Yeah, about that, I don't have family nearby and my other half is still on N plates so can't accompany me. I did my first 13 lessons in Drogheda and Dundalk with the same instructor but was only able to do them once a week, if even, at weekends. I have a very long commute by bus during the week so just had no time to do lessons in Drogheda. My 13th lesson went terribly and I almost packed in driving altogether.

So after a few months of doing nothing I decided to try again in Dublin with a new instructor where I could get two or three a week during lunch or after work. But as the last lesson went so badly, I wanted to try automatic to get my confidence back somewhat.


It does feel very daunting for me, in all honesty I never really wanted to do it, but needs must now.

Go automatic, don't mind the manual conversation. It's not like you can't buy an auto second hand, they have every price range in auto now.....you will be a lot more confident with auto


Clutch and gears....so old school :pb

Gael23

Learn in a manual because if you do the test in an automatic you will only ever be permitted to drive an automatic. That won’t happen if you learn in a manual

tedpan

Gael23 wrote:

Learn in a manual because if you do the test in an automatic you will only ever be permitted to drive an automatic. That won’t happen if you learn in a manual

In a few years there won't be manual cars.

Shefwedfan

Gael23 wrote: »

Learn in a manual because if you do the test in an automatic you will only ever be permitted to drive an automatic. That won’t happen if you learn in a manual

So?


As above manual is dying out. In electric/hybrid you don't have a manual option.



If I was 17/18 now and starting lessons I wouldn't even bother getting a manual license.

GreeBo

Noe Curved Potato wrote: »

Go for the manual, it will take more practice, but it will be worth it. If you get your manual licence you can still purchase an automatic, but if you get an automatic you will never learn to drive properly. Plenty of practice is all it takes, and one day it will just click.

A manual gearbox isn't driving "properly" anymore than driving a car without a choke or starter handle isn't.

The days of manual cars for majority are dwindling day by day.

GreeBo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So?


As above manual is dying out. In electric/hybrid you don't have a manual option.



If I was 17/18 now and starting lessons I wouldn't even bother getting a manual license.

I still would, but only because for the next 3-5 years I would probably be buying a cheap, manual ICE.

osarusan

Find out if your job would provide you with an automatic car if that's all your licence is for.

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

I still would, but only because for the next 3-5 years I would probably be buying a cheap, manual ICE.

You can buy a cheap auto no problem. You can get an auto Yaris etc no problem. They also hold value better than a manual as the market for auto is growing.

GreeBo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You can buy a cheap auto no problem. You can get an auto Yaris etc no problem. They also hold value better than a manual as the market for auto is growing.

Which proves the point that a manual will be cheaper.

Resale value has never been an issue for a car bought for a learner!

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

Which proves the point that a manual will be cheaper.

Resale value has never been an issue for a car bought for a learner!

Depends on budget, you can buy a auto starting at 1k.


If you had lets say 5k for first car, buy a manual, maybe a 2009 just for example. Keep 3 years and it would be worth what? 500 quid


Buy a auto which might be a 2008, but sell 3 years time and you get 1500.....


The years above are just for a reference, ok you might need to drop a year to buy an auto but when you try to sell on you will end up with a better product to sell.....


Driving around Dublin for 1-2 months and you will soon see the advantage of an auto....changing gears every 10 seconds gets very boring very quickly

GreeBo

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Depends on budget, you can buy a auto starting at 1k.


If you had lets say 5k for first car, buy a manual, maybe a 2009 just for example. Keep 3 years and it would be worth what? 500 quid


Buy a auto which might be a 2008, but sell 3 years time and you get 1500.....


The years above are just for a reference, ok you might need to drop a year to buy an auto but when you try to sell on you will end up with a better product to sell.....


Driving around Dublin for 1-2 months and you will soon see the advantage of an auto....changing gears every 10 seconds gets very boring very quickly

Oh Im all in favour of automatics, but learners are often buying cars for €500 to start, nevermind being worth that 3 years later.

Shefwedfan

GreeBo wrote: »

Oh Im all in favour of automatics, but learners are often buying cars for €500 to start, nevermind being worth that 3 years later.

€500 quid? not anymore....The Tiger is back.



The average for people spending on a car at the moment is 30k. That includes all cars. Most people getting a new car will take out a loan and probably spend at least 5k on it.

noel100

Switch to an automatic.
My wife couldn't handle a manual car. She never looked back 12 years driving an automatic.
My 3 daughters are all driving an automatic and I also switched to an automatic.
All cars in 2030 will be automatic. Life is much easier driving automatics and they aren't as thirsty on fuel the way they used to be ...

_Brian

Your learning so learn a manual and do the manual test.

Otherwise you’ll have a licence restricted to automatic cars

edora91

I have a full (manual) license, but I wouldn't bother with a manual unless I have to. It's too much of a distraction for me. Luckily, work let me pick my car, so I went for an automatic. Realistically, (automatic) hybrids and electrics are the future, only time when you would need a manual are the first few years. Having said that, manuals are cheaper to buy and more plentiful on the market, so doing the manual test can save you some money initially.
As for getting a car from work, I'd check what are the options. Most hybrids would be automatic :-)

rabbidpeach

So I had another lesson today and it made up my mind for me. I'm going to do automatic.

I'm still having a lot of trouble setting off. Today, while at a T junction turning right, I was first in the line of traffic. Stalled and missed the light. On my second attempt I stalled again and the person behind me blew me out of it. Which made me even more anxious and annoyed. I don't want to deal with that sort of thing.

At the end, my instructor said that everything is going great except the gears. He feels I'd be ready for the test with another 3 or 4 lessons in automatic but couldn't give me a figure with manual. Considering that I have no chance to practice outside lessons, I think automatic is the better option for me.

GreeBo

rabbidpeach wrote: »

So I had another lesson today and it made up my mind for me. I'm going to do automatic.

I'm still having a lot of trouble setting off. Today, while at a T junction turning right, I was first in the line of traffic. Stalled and missed the light. On my second attempt I stalled again and the person behind me blew me out of it. Which made me even more anxious and annoyed. I don't want to deal with that sort of thing.

At the end, my instructor said that everything is going great except the gears. He feels I'd be ready for the test with another 3 or 4 lessons in automatic but couldn't give me a figure with manual. Considering that I have no chance to practice outside lessons, I think automatic is the better option for me.

Were you in a clearly marked instructor car?

Some people are just idiots, we were all there, just try to ignore them!

rabbidpeach

GreeBo wrote: »

Were you in a clearly marked instructor car?

I was indeed.

Shefwedfan

rabbidpeach wrote: »

So I had another lesson today and it made up my mind for me. I'm going to do automatic.

I'm still having a lot of trouble setting off. Today, while at a T junction turning right, I was first in the line of traffic. Stalled and missed the light. On my second attempt I stalled again and the person behind me blew me out of it. Which made me even more anxious and annoyed. I don't want to deal with that sort of thing.

At the end, my instructor said that everything is going great except the gears. He feels I'd be ready for the test with another 3 or 4 lessons in automatic but couldn't give me a figure with manual. Considering that I have no chance to practice outside lessons, I think automatic is the better option for me.

I wouldn't mind, some people are idiots....I had a clown blow me out of it and sit on the horn till I showed him the light wasnt green for me to turn but still red, it was green to go straight....just bite the bullet and go auto....at this stage the gears are probably making you more nervous, once you take that out of your mind you will fly the test.....


I havent seen on decent reason on this thread to stay with manual.....apart from the fact you might want to buy a banger for 500 quid

Posy

For me, the main reason I stuck with manual was that I don't want to spend more than 5 or 6k on my first car, and I could not find any reasonably priced, small automatics. I don't really fancy waiting the best part of 20 years until they are the norm! :pac:

I took one lesson in an automatic and didn't actually find it to be a magic solution, and so went back to manual. There is no harm in trying a couple of auto lessons to see how you get on. You can make a more informed decision after trying both.


(I had nobody to practice with either, so I feel your pain)

J_R

rabbidpeach wrote: »

So I had another lesson today and it made up my mind for me. I'm going to do automatic.

I'm still having a lot of trouble setting off. Today, while at a T junction turning right, I was first in the line of traffic. Stalled and missed the light. On my second attempt I stalled again and the person behind me blew me out of it. Which made me even more anxious and annoyed. I don't want to deal with that sort of thing.

At the end, my instructor said that everything is going great except the gears. He feels I'd be ready for the test with another 3 or 4 lessons in automatic but couldn't give me a figure with manual. Considering that I have no chance to practice outside lessons, I think automatic is the better option for me.

Hi,
That is a simple clutch control problem. Have you had a chance to follow advice in Post Nr 3

But you say your OH can not take you on public roads, so any private area available. ? Even a long driveway ?


If so.
Select 1st gear.
Rev the engine to a nice steady happy sound. (Two reasons to increase gas. One you need that extra power and it gives you more leeway for errors Two makes it easier to hear)
Let up the clutch slowly until you hear the engine note change.
You have now found the "Bite"
Now hold your feet still.
You should now do your obs but if you are in a driveway you could forgo this for the moment and concentrate on mastering the clutch.
Now release the handbrake fully, put your hand back on the wheel.
All this while still holding your feet perfectly still.

Now, depending on how much of a "bite", the car will either start moving slowly forward or it may sit still.
If it sits still let the clutch up very slightly.
The car will now start moving slowly forward.
Let it gain momentum for a second or two, then increase the gas as you smoothly release the clutch fully. Take your foot off the clutch.
When I was teaching, I taught my pupils to let it "Bite" so that when they released the handbrake the car would start moving smoothly off. (Cut out one step)

Next see if you could find a slight incline and practice controlling the car with the clutch alone. Wee bit of gas and move the car slowly forward, bring it to a halt, hold it there, then move off again only using the clutch, repeat. Do not do this for very long as you will overheat the clutch plates and double check you are in first gear.


And it is the engine in a diesel car that makes it less likely to stall, not the clutch.

Shefwedfan

J_R wrote: »

Hi,
That is a simple clutch control problem. Have you had a chance to follow advice in Post Nr 3

But you say your OH can not take you on public roads, so any private area available. ? Even a long driveway ?


If so.
Select 1st gear.
Rev the engine to a nice steady happy sound. (Two reasons to increase gas. One you need that extra power and it gives you more leeway for errors Two makes it easier to hear)
Let up the clutch slowly until you hear the engine note change.
You have now found the "Bite"
Now hold your feet still.
You should now do your obs but if you are in a driveway you could forgo this for the moment and concentrate on mastering the clutch.
Now release the handbrake fully, put your hand back on the wheel.
All this while still holding your feet perfectly still.

Now, depending on how much of a "bite", the car will either start moving slowly forward or it may sit still.
If it sits still let the clutch up very slightly.
The car will now start moving slowly forward.
Let it gain momentum for a second or two, then increase the gas as you smoothly release the clutch fully. Take your foot off the clutch.
When I was teaching, I taught my pupils to let it "Bite" so that when they released the handbrake the car would start moving smoothly off. (Cut out one step)

Next see if you could find a slight incline and practice controlling the car with the clutch alone. Wee bit of gas and move the car slowly forward, bring it to a halt, hold it there, then move off again only using the clutch, repeat. Do not do this for very long as you will overheat the clutch plates and double check you are in first gear.


And it is the engine in a diesel car that makes it less likely to stall, not the clutch.

Or go auto and just drive

Your burning the clutch out of the car with those tips....If you taught people with those tips how long would a car last before the clutch was gone?

Personally diesel is a f**ker to stall on the smaller engine cars because you need to rev the ass out of it, petrol is a lot better

I remember my bro has a 1.9 flat diesel, I had a 1.6 petrol but a lot bigger car, I was driving for year and it stalled 2-3 times on me because I didn’t realise how much I had to rev it to take off

J_R

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Or go auto and just drive

Your burning the clutch out of the car with those tips....If you taught people with those tips how long would a car last before the clutch was gone?

Personally diesel is a f**ker to stall on the smaller engine cars because you need to rev the ass out of it, petrol is a lot better

I remember my bro has a 1.9 flat diesel, I had a 1.6 petrol but a lot bigger car, I was driving for year and it stalled 2-3 times on me because I didn’t realise how much I had to rev it to take off

Hi,

very false and very common fallacy. Misconception shared by quite a few driving instructors who consequently fail to teach their pupils the correct way to move off. They do not teach them to rev the engine in the mistaken belief that they would burn out the clutch. Consequently their poor pupil constantly stalls. But hi, it has its upside, the pupil needs more lessons

Shefwedfan

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

very false and very common fallacy. Misconception shared by quite a few driving instructors who consequently fail to teach their pupils the correct way to move off. They do not teach them to rev the engine in the mistaken belief that they would burn out the clutch. Consequently their poor pupil constantly stalls. But hi, it has its upside, the pupil needs more lessons

You mention over heating in your own post?

I’m not saying your wrong but I’m sure if a mechanic was sitting in my car and I started at that he would cringe

J_R

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You mention over heating in your own post?

I’m not saying your wrong but I’m sure if a mechanic was sitting in my car and I started at that he would cringe

Hi

Yes of course, prolonged time having the two clutch plates spin together they will of course heat up.

But absolutely no problem whatsoever for a short period.

If I had a pupil who was finding it difficult to master clutch control, we would abandon, drive off, do something else then when plates had cooled down, return. Or postpone till next lesson. I thought it imperative that a pupil had mastered the very basics of car control before dealing with traffic, junctions lights etc. And it did not cost me any new clutches

Lia_lia

I'm still having a lot of trouble setting off. Today, while at a T junction turning right, I was first in the line of traffic. Stalled and missed the light. On my second attempt I stalled again and the person behind me blew me out of it. Which made me even more anxious and annoyed. I don't want to deal with that sort of thing.

This kind of thing happened me loads at the start. People are just knobs, I wouldn't let it get to you!


I never even considered an automatic (like many other people) and just kept practising in a manual. I found going down in gear was probably the toughest part of learning to drive but soon got used to it and passed my test after 6 months. You will be fine in a manual if you keep practising.

rabbidpeach

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Ask the new instructor to take you somewhere quiet and master the control of the clutch. If you’re having trouble with it trying to master it in traffic when you’re anxious about it isn’t going to help. Work on moving off and stopping countless times until you’re getting it automatically. Use an estate like Rathmullan Park or even Donore Rd along by Funtasia.

Watch this video too. https://youtu.be/8ofUKNQyYBg

I only got to see this video over the weekend. Food for thought as I learned more from that than I did from any instructor. I had decided on automatic but I’m not so sure now!

rabbidpeach

rabbidpeach wrote: »

I’ve been learning to drive on and off for about the last 8 or 9 months. As of yesterday I’ve done 17 lessons. However, that’s all I’ve done. I don’t have anyone who can accompany me so I’ve been unable to get any practice outside of the lessons.

My first 13 lessons were in a manual diesel but my instructor at the time advised me to go automatic instead. He said that the diesel clutch was very forgiving and that the way I was driving it would not work well with a petrol. So I took three lessons in an automatic and it felt great. I had more of an opportunity to focus on the road ahead of me and less time fretting over what gear I was in or whether I’d stall the thing.

However, it has been suggested that my work could provide me with a car if I pass the test and I’d assume that this is reliant on me handling a manual. So I rearranged two lessons in a manual to see if things have changed at all. Yesterday, the instructor suggested that I drive home to Drogheda from where I work in north Dublin! Went along the old N2 and then across through Duleek and Platin. I could see why my previous instructor said the diesels are more forgiving as I must have stalled it about 10 times on the way. This time, my current instructor said he could see that I’m more nervous in the manual and that my observations are suffering.

I don’t know what to do. If it weren’t for work, I’d just say feck it, do the automatic and accept the code 78 on the licence. What do you think; should I slog away with the manual?

At least your instructor told you about petrol/diesel.

I did my lessons in a diesel. After many lessons I started driving my petrol car and couldn’t do anything without stalling.

I asked my instructor why I was stalling and he just shrugged at me.

Had to learn for myself that petrol and diesel are very different.

Irish_rat

I'm changing car soon and have been driving manuals for 13 years. Hopped into a few automatics and there is no comparison, will never go back to manual. Getting an auto license only won't be a big deal as probably half the market will be autos soon anyway.

Shefwedfan

Irish_rat wrote: »

I'm changing car soon and have been driving manuals for 13 years. Hopped into a few automatics and there is no comparison, will never go back to manual. Getting an auto license only won't be a big deal as probably half the market will be autos soon anyway.

Look at it now and it is nearly half, with electric and hybrid pushing more into market it will be harder to find manual....


Also people buying new are swapping to auto even if not electric/hybrid. They hold value better as the swap to auto started a few years ago,

Thow up two cars, one manual and one auto and see which one sells first.

rabbidpeach

Thought I'd give an update.

I haven't been able to get any official lessons since because my instructor isn't available until the 12th. I was hoping to get something in the meantime. However, I did go out in a field with a friend of mine over the weekend in a manual. It was a diesel in fairness, but by following the steps in the video I did very well. I got some practice with moving off and also with shifting down gears. So I feel better than I ever have. If only I could get some actual lessons in now!

rabbidpeach

I've had a couple of lessons this week and things are pretty good. I can set off in the petrol absolutely fine, until I have to do it in traffic and the nerves get to me. The instructor said that everyone goes through that so he's not concerned, I'll get it with time and practice. Reversing is my new bugbear but I'll work it out eventually.

In saying that, I had a bit of a scare where I was turning right out of a T junction (didn't stall) when some idiot on a scrambler booted through the red light to my left doing a wheelie! I was able to react to it but will admit that I didn't see him at first. My instructor didn't say that I did anything wrong, just commented on the idiocy of the situation.