Mechanics leaving trade in droves

Blueshoe

I see garages up and down the country looking for mechanics. It has turned into a trade that nobody wants to do

I left the trade about 5 years ago and it was the best decision Iv ever made. I'm friends on Facebook with most of the lads who were in my phase 6 and I reckon at least 9/12 have also left.

The pay is disgraceful along with the huge and constant cost of tooling. The technology does not stand still either and with electric vehicles becoming more mainstream it will only get worse.

I actually know one guy who gets paid the same delivering bread now as he did on the tools in the garage.

In comparison to the other trades the pay is a pittance

Toyotafanboi

Yeah, the pay is dire compared to other trades. Have a look on jobs.ie, a couple of large Dublin outfits looking for diagnostic/ master tech positions and boasting offering €39k OTE as if that's somehow attractive.

We cant keep staff, lots leaving the trade, as you say getting better money for less hardship elsewhere.

Sexual Chocolate

Few apprenticeships going as well. Was considering it but for €189 a week on phase 1 not a hope.

monkeysnapper

I'm not in the trade but I reckon it would be a nice side line .

I do a bit of work for a garage photographing cars for online ads and he says same. You can only get the young apprentices and then once they are finished they move on and work for themselves.

My opinion is I feel there will be work for a long time yet ...

Blueshoe

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Yeah, the pay is dire compared to other trades. Have a look on jobs.ie, a couple of large Dublin outfits looking for diagnostic/ master tech positions and boasting offering €39k OTE as if that's somehow attractive.

We cant keep staff, lots leaving the trade, as you say getting better money for less hardship elsewhere.

It's why I left. I had trained up to master tech level and was making less than some of my friends who were in menial jobs. I'm not surprised it's gotten this bad.

The day of the mechanic with a dirty rag in his overall pockets are long dead. The technology has moved on light years while the pay has gotten worse.
A thankless job

Blueshoe

monkeysnapper wrote: »

I'm not in the trade but I reckon it would be a nice side line .

I do a bit of work for a garage photographing cars for online ads and he says same. You can only get the young apprentices and then once they are finished they move on and work for themselves.

My opinion is I feel there will be work for a long time yet ...

I still take on some jobs at home. Mostly for friends and I pretty much make them do the work while I give a hand! They seem to enjoy it that way too

I wouldn't take on anything other than basic servicing myself though.
Without the workshop diagrams or diagnostic equipment that is required nowadays doing anything electrical is just not worth it

4068ac1elhodqr

Normally it would boil down to simpe (DvS=P) economics



But a few factors complicate it, automation and e-cars will reduce the overall workload in the future,
thus getting hands dirty in long apprenticeships whilst realising the above sceanario isn't so attractive.

Know of some garages headhunting out in Eastern EU for staff, but at the end of the day: staff walk & money talk$.

khaldrogo

What's the average hourly rate these days???

We are in the process of recruitment and the figure of 20e ph is being talked about plus bonus........thats nearly 800e pw without any OT or bonus added.......

When I was last in a main dealer as a mechanic (c. 10 years ago) I was on around 600e pw or 15e ph.

For the general day to day of a mechanic 800e pw is good money in my opinion....now, if you are spending your days in the dealership chasing wiring faults or rebuilding engines/gearboxes then it's not as an attractive sum of money but at the end of the day you get what you are worth and if your are not getting it, move.......places are screaming for mechanics.....name your price.

That said, if you are a qualified mechanic and taking 3+ days to rebuild an engine be grateful for the 600e pw!!!!

Blueshoe

khaldrogo wrote: »

What's the average hourly rate these days???

We are in the process of recruitment and the figure of 20e ph is being talked about plus bonus........thats nearly 800e pw without any OT or bonus added.......

When I was last in a main dealer as a mechanic (c. 10 years ago) I was on around 600e pw or 15e ph.

For the general day to day of a mechanic 800e pw is good money in my opinion....now, if you are spending your days in the dealership chasing wiring faults or rebuilding engines/gearboxes then it's not as an attractive sum of money but at the end of the day you get what you are worth and if your are not getting it, move.......places are screaming for mechanics.....name your price.

That said, if you are a qualified mechanic and taking 3+ days to rebuild an engine be grateful for the 600e pw!!!!

20 per hour is decent. Doubt there are many workshops paying that. Closer to 15 or 17 I would have thought.
I know some plumbers working for big companies on 24 and electricians on similar.
20 per hour in the motor trade would be right up there I would think

stecleary

Blueshoe wrote: »

20 per hour is decent. Doubt there are many workshops paying that. Closer to 15 or 17 I would have thought.
I know some plumbers working for big companies on 24 and electricians on similar.
20 per hour in the motor trade would be right up there I would think

Is there as big a union (if any) for the motor trade compared to construction?

Whocare

Hgv mechanic are same way know of few lads gave it up and when driving a truck

Blueshoe

stecleary wrote: »

Is there as big a union (if any) for the motor trade compared to construction?

I don't think so. There was a group trying to get together but I'm not sure if they ever gained traction. Perhaps someone here still in the trade might be able to answer that one

bazz26

I wonder is the car technology a factor also. Cars are moving further and further away from mechanical components and becoming more electronic/electrical focused. With the shift from ICE to electric you could see less and less ICE vehicles on the road in the next decade or two. You could argue that older ICE cars will still be knocking around so there would still be demand for skilled knowledge in that field but consumerism is driving us more and more towards disposing rather than repairing so its hard to see anyone looking to get into a career in an area that may well become redundant very quickly.

corks finest

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Few apprenticeships going as well. Was considering it but for €189 a week on phase 1 not a hope.

Consider brickie trade I've a kid in his early 30s ,made, travelling the world, lovely new BMW something paid for ,fit and in demand,wish I could do it I'm a painter on the way out ( 60) next month,brickie/ plumber/ chippie

Guy:Incognito

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Few apprenticeships going as well. Was considering it but for €189 a week on phase 1 not a hope.

Phase 1 for any trade is around 200 a week.

Blueshoe

corks finest wrote: »

Consider brickie trade I've a kid in his early 30s ,made, travelling the world, lovely new BMW something paid for ,fit and in demand,wish I could do it I'm a painter on the way out ( 60) next month,brickie/ plumber/ chippie

Apprentice electrician is the way to go in my opinion.

Blueshoe

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Phase 1 for any trade is around 200 a week.

It is. And by the time it gets to phase 6 all of the other trades apprentices are paid more than the qualified mechanics. Used to be a major gripe of mine!

jochenstacker

Apart from EVs I don't know if cars are somehow less mechanical than they used to be.
You still have an engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes, electrics and bodywork on a car, so the difference is a computer stuffed somewhere in there.
The sentiment of "you won't be able to do any work on new car, it will all be sealed units" has been around since the 80's and really took off in the 90's.
Yes, there are different roles now when working on cars, you need to be able to handle diagnostics and interpret error codes, but there's still oil changes to be done and brake pads to be changed.

That just as an aside, carry on.

Blueshoe

jochenstacker wrote: »

Apart from EVs I don't know if cars are somehow less mechanical than they used to be.
You still have an engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes, electrics and bodywork on a car, so the difference is a computer stuffed somewhere in there.
The sentiment of "you won't be able to do any work on new car, it will all be sealed units" has been around since the 80's and really took off in the 90's.
Yes, there are different roles now when working on cars, you need to be able to handle diagnostics and interpret error codes, but there's still oil changes to be done and brake pads to be changed.

That just as an aside, carry on.

There is about a mile of wiring in a modern car with up to 22 different ECUs communicating with each other on a Can bus system. Without the manufacturer supplied diagnostic equipment many repairs are way out of each.

In one main dealer I worked in the manufacturer issued a usb dongle to each technician that granted different levels of access to the computer systems depending on the level of training of the user.
They also trialled a guided fault finding system on one model that ended in a disaster. The program would have you testing all manor of components to try and solve a software or wiring issue as quickly as possible. The problem was if the technician didn't do one check properly the fault finding would keep moving on and eventually run out of ideas! Leading to someone else having a go or quoting the customer a **** load of expensive electronic parts.

2Mad2BeMad

Would of loved to have become a mechanic. I finished my leaving cert in 2011 and it was near impossible to get an apprenticeship as one unless you knew someone or got extremely lucky.

The one interview I had was for a hgv mechanic apprenticeship with bus eireann. There were over 10k people who applied for 3 possible positions.

I'm 25 now and I'd doubt anyone would take me on as one now.
But goes to show how fast things turn around within a few years.

corks finest

Blueshoe wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Consider brickie trade I've a kid in his early 30s ,made, travelling the world, lovely new BMW something paid for ,fit and in demand,wish I could do it I'm a painter on the way out ( 60) next month,brickie/ plumber/ chippie

Apprentice electrician is the way to go in my opinion.

Clean trade but unless maintenance in Pfizer etc or working for yourself peanuts

corks finest

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Would of loved to have become a mechanic. I finished my leaving cert in 2011 and it was near impossible to get an apprenticeship as one unless you knew someone or got extremely lucky.

The one interview I had was for a hgv mechanic apprenticeship with bus eireann. There were over 10k people who applied for 3 possible positions.

I'm 25 now and I'd doubt anyone would take me on as one now.
But goes to show how fast things turn around within a few years.

My late brother worked in Canada ( fabrication/ welding) his apprentice then was 45 Anson his 3rd apprenticeship,know opportunity here is different but it just goes to show if u want it?

_blaaz

The pay rates are going to up substanicially next few years imo

As they havnt droves of poles/eastern europeans anymore to do work for fcuk all


I know i left a 80 euro a day job for 120 a day few months ago....and while still sh1te by most stamdreds its a massive increase when your used to even crapper pay

Blueshoe

_blaaz wrote: »

The pay rates are going to up substanicially next few years imo

As they havnt droves of poles/eastern europeans anymore to do work for fcuk all


I know i left a 80 euro a day job for 120 a day few months ago....and while still sh1te by most stamdreds its a massive increase when your used to even crapper pay

I'm hearing that since my
Fas days over 10 years ago!

Well I hope the rates do go up for mechanics because it's well past due and we'll deserved at this stage

_blaaz

Blueshoe wrote: »

I'm hearing that since my
Fas days over 10 years ago!

Well I hope the rates do go up for mechanics because it's well past due and we'll deserved at this stage

Im going by antedotes...but know several garages that cant fill positions and polish/east europeans mechanics arent coming in numbers they used to


By any logics wages should rise due to supply/demand??

,i know of a job heavy diesel mechanic that came up shortly.after i took my job for e18.50 an hour plus OT...but work hours tend to be unsocialbe in these type jobs too

Odelay

corks finest wrote: »

Clean trade but unless maintenance in Pfizer etc or working for yourself peanuts

Bull****.

corks finest

Odelay wrote: »

corks finest wrote: »

Clean trade but unless maintenance in Pfizer etc or working for yourself peanuts

Bull****.

Well I'm in the trades 40 years ,have worked all over the EU/and some of the middle East and that's what I know / see,/ experienced,,,have family in construction/ shop fitting also,loads of friends who are sunbird do you're the bull****ter I guess

Blueshoe

corks finest wrote: »

Well I'm in the trades 40 years ,have worked all over the EU/and some of the middle East and that's what I know / see,/ experienced,,,have family in construction/ shop fitting also,loads of friends who are sunbird do you're the bull****ter I guess

Electricians are on top money with the big builders. That is one thing for sure.
Can't speak for the lads in small towns etc

CoBo55

If the spelling/ punctuation on this thread is anything to go by, it's a wonder anyone got past phase 1. I was dead set on becoming a mechanic, my father stopped me I'm glad he did, it's a dreadful job. You know a job is terrible when you have to do nixers to feed your family.

terrydel

Blueshoe wrote: »

I see garages up and down the country looking for mechanics. It has turned into a trade that nobody wants to do

I left the trade about 5 years ago and it was the best decision Iv ever made. I'm friends on Facebook with most of the lads who were in my phase 6 and I reckon at least 9/12 have also left.

The pay is disgraceful along with the huge and constant cost of tooling. The technology does not stand still either and with electric vehicles becoming more mainstream it will only get worse.

I actually know one guy who gets paid the same delivering bread now as he did on the tools in the garage.

In comparison to the other trades the pay is a pittance

I'm no expert on it in any way, but my take looking from the outside has always been it's a tough gig, very labour intensive, I'm assuming it's not brilliantly paid given the work and skill required, and in this country you could spend 8-9 months of the year in a cold, damp garage all day, come home tired and filthy.
Can certainly see why it wouldn't appeal.

terrydel

Blueshoe wrote: »

I see garages up and down the country looking for mechanics. It has turned into a trade that nobody wants to do

I left the trade about 5 years ago and it was the best decision Iv ever made. I'm friends on Facebook with most of the lads who were in my phase 6 and I reckon at least 9/12 have also left.

The pay is disgraceful along with the huge and constant cost of tooling. The technology does not stand still either and with electric vehicles becoming more mainstream it will only get worse.

I actually know one guy who gets paid the same delivering bread now as he did on the tools in the garage.

In comparison to the other trades the pay is a pittance

I work in IT, and the way the technology doesn't stand still and the constant need to keep learning, is the reason I'll leave that trade, hopefully soon. The mental toll it takes is huge, at least in me, I don't care what it pays (in paid well by most standards, probably just about average for what I do).

CoBo55

terrydel wrote: »

I'm no expert on it in any way, but my take looking from the outside has always been it's a tough gig, very labour intensive, I'm assuming it's not brilliantly paid given the work and skill required, and in this country you could spend 8-9 months of the year in a cold, damp garage all day, come home tired and filthy.
Can certainly see why it wouldn't appeal.

And then face into 3 hours under someone's car doing a job that's too expensive to get done in a garage, you might or might not get paid for.

Outkast_IRE

Blueshoe wrote: »

Electricians are on top money with the big builders. That is one thing for sure.
Can't speak for the lads in small towns etc

Heres the thing no builders / main contractors employ any trade direct anymore - its incredibly rare now. You have to setup on your own as a subbie and then take all the risks that go with it such as getting shafted if the main contractor goes bust, or they will try and get out of paying you if they are losing money on the job.



There are lads on decent money working for the Tier 1 M&E contractors on the big jobs. Have no doubt about this - but in order for it to be decent money they are taking on O/T, shift or are working away from home and getting lodge money.


It also depends where you are based - whats decent money in Kerry may have you struggling hard in Dublin etc.



I am a consultant engineer in the M&E field and would be quite familiar with what lads are earning.

terrydel

CoBo55 wrote: »

And then face into 3 hours under someone's car doing a job that's too expensive to get done in a garage, you might or might not get paid for.

I'd say unless you are on a salary and set hours doing it, you'd end up doing loads of 12 hour days, starting jobs you quoted 2 hours for that then prove more awkward and end up at 4 hours due to some hard to get at part or dodgy bolt that won't move etc etc

terrydel

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Heres the thing no builders / main contractors employ any trade direct anymore - its incredibly rare now. You have to setup on your own as a subbie and then take all the risks that go with it such as getting shafted if the main contractor goes bust, or they will try and get out of paying you if they are losing money on the job.



There are lads on decent money working for the Tier 1 M&E contractors on the big jobs. Have no doubt about this - but in order for it to be decent money they are taking on O/T, shift or are working away from home and getting lodge money.


It also depends where you are based - whats decent money in Kerry may have your struggling hard in Dublin etc.



I am a consultant engineer in the M&E field and would be quite familiar with what lads are earning.

That's modern day capitalism for you, the little guy takes all the risk, and bails the big guy out every time.

Outkast_IRE

terrydel wrote: »

That's modern day capitalism for you, the little guy takes all the risk, and bails the big guy out every time.

And to be honest its not right. Part of my role has entailed visitng sites and inspecting works carried out and i see day in and day out standards and quality of work are slipping because the apprentices are not getting the guidance they deserve onsite. Alot of the time there are 4-5 apprentices to each qualified guy, its not sustainable and the apprentices end up poorly trained and supervised.



Solas should be dropping by sites unannounced and checking on the quality of training being given , but they wont they are either not resourced right or dont want to know.

The ratio of apprentices is so high because they are cheap labour vs qualified guys.

pablo128

I got out of it about 15 years ago. And there was no hybrids or electrics back then. The big problem is that there are no unions for mechanics. You can't get wiring or central heating done on your house now without a certified tradesman but the Ukrainian lad employed in the local garage for 400 a week has probably no formal training whatsoever and so is in a catch 22. He can't ask for more money because he's not qualified, and he's probably setting the bar for a lot of smaller places.

terrydel

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

And to be honest its not right. Part of my role has entailed visitng sites and inspecting works carried out and i see day in and day out standards and quality of work are slipping because the apprentices are not getting the guidance they deserve onsite. Alot of the time there are 4-5 apprentices to each qualified guy, its not sustainable and the apprentices end up poorly trained and supervised.



Solas should be dropping by sites unannounced and checking on the quality of training being given , but they wont they are either not resourced right or dont want to know.

The ratio of apprentices is so high because they are cheap labour vs qualified guys.

Exactly, apprenticeships and job bridge and all that stuff are now a means of accessing cheap labour and dressing it up as something else. And solas, who used to be fas, are a joke, even by the pitifully poor standard of Irish state services.

Eric Cartman

Similar to the trades though, you aren't going to ever make really good money at something unless its your name on the company directorship.

Lads getting eastern europeans in the door for 70-90 quid a day might have upset the apple cart for those starting out , but those lads still know how to bill. Specialist mechanics doing out of warranty work on higher end vehicles working themselves as the master tech and employing 2 unqualified dogsbodies and 2 somewhat experienced lads can make a boat load , but at the expense of those down the chain.

There are no more jobs where you don't have to constantly upskill and retrain constantly, a thing much of this country still has to get to grips with.

InTheShadows

pablo128 wrote: »

I got out of it about 15 years ago. And there was no hybrids or electrics back then. The big problem is that there are no unions for mechanics. You can't get wiring or central heating done on your house now without a certified tradesman but the Ukrainian lad employed in the local garage for 400 a week has probably no formal training whatsoever and so is in a catch 22. He can't ask for more money because he's not qualified, and he's probably setting the bar for a lot of smaller places.

Been like that for years in a raft loads of jobs. It's the race to the bottom. Worked driving artics for years making decent money (1000 a week) back in 2005 you'd be lucky to get 500 a week now be better money working the tills in Aldi.

It's the new reality, great for the employer who can coin it not so great for the lad looking to pay the mortgage and keep food on the table.

terrydel

InTheShadows wrote: »

Been like that for years in a raft loads of jobs. It's the race to the bottom. Worked driving artics for years making decent money (1000 a week) back in 2005 you'd be lucky to get 500 a week now be better money working the tills in Aldi.

It's the new reality, great for the employer who can coin it not so great for the lad looking to pay the mortgage and keep food on the table.

It's how the neo liberal economic model works.

griffin100

As an aside this is an interesting podcast - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0723zkz

There are now more lines of code in a modern car than behind the whole of Facebook. Not sure how an independent mechanic can keep up with this level of tech.

Guy:Incognito

People are very quick to jump in and say its all about employers driving wages down or citing lads coming in from eastern europe working in small garages..


Whats the first thing thats said when someone comes in here asking for where to get work done? "jesus, dont go near main dealers , youll get ripped off".



"pay the mechanics top rates, but I want bottom end prices for the work"

_blaaz

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People are very quick to jump in and say its all about employers driving wages down or citing lads coming in from eastern europe working in small garages..


Whats the first thing thats said when someone comes in here asking for where to get work done? "jesus, dont go near main dealers , youll get ripped off".



"pay the mechanics top rates, but I want bottom end prices for the work"

All the above is true though....it was a large part of eastern europeans coming in and beibg used to drive down wages (not just at main dealers)....main dealers arent exactly knwon for paying top rates and most small garages i know can compete with them....most fleet operators easily out pay main dealers



Lads are leaving cos wages are sh1t.....havnt easyern europeans to come in to take up slack anymore...hence so many mechanic jobs not being filled......expect it to get alot dearer to get your car serviced over next few years as wages rise and lads need to do nixers drop off

ml100

With electric cars becoming more popular there'll be less need for mechanics, not over night but if you were 18 you might think twice before picking it for a career.

Eric Cartman

ml100 wrote: »

With electric cars becoming more popular there'll be less need for mechanics, not over night but if you were 18 you might think twice before picking it for a career.

I don't think therell be less need, sure check out rich rebuilds on youtube, the chap runs into issues with teslas all the time , electric cars still have suspension components , tyres, brakes, sensors etc... Im sure the electric motors 'not needing a service' will soon to be found like 'sealed for life' gearboxes. With electric cars becoming 'cheap' to run and autonomous cars, itll be the rebirth of a rural need for vehicles and easier affordability. The car is going nowhere, you're going to lose oil changes yeah but not like a lad swapping wishbones is going away and you'll have lads learning to refurb batteries etc...

the exhaust / kwik fit centres will struggle, real mechanics will not.

khaldrogo

Eric Cartman wrote:

the exhaust / kwik fit centres will struggle, real mechanics will not.

Plenty of 'real' mechanics in these places

InTheShadows

khaldrogo wrote: »

Plenty of 'real' mechanics in these places

Absolutely but unfortunately plenty that aren't and i wouldn't let them near a toy car never mind a real one.

Andrewf20

When my door handle broke internally a few weeks ago, i tried to repair it in the driveway. Despite great youtube vids to guide me, the job nearly cut my hand and arm to pieces along with 2 hours of pure murder in the driveway trying to get old handle out.

In the end , I dropped it into a garage with a new replacement handle from a breakers yard. I was more than happy to tip the mechanic 50% of the total repair cost. A grim job to take on. He apparently found it a nightmare also.

dok_golf

My local mechanic is paying 15% above average to keep his lads. He said it take about 8 or 9 attempts to find the right person and he can't afford the downtime looking for replacements. From my own point of view, I'm a painter and I'm paying my lads ( not qualified) 150 a day to hold onto them ( they are very good in fairness) but sometimes they earn more than myself ( quite often if I'm honest)

Blueshoe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Similar to the trades though, you aren't going to ever make really good money at something unless its your name on the company directorship.

Lads getting eastern europeans in the door for 70-90 quid a day might have upset the apple cart for those starting out , but those lads still know how to bill. Specialist mechanics doing out of warranty work on higher end vehicles working themselves as the master tech and employing 2 unqualified dogsbodies and 2 somewhat experienced lads can make a boat load , but at the expense of those down the chain.

There are no more jobs where you don't have to constantly upskill and retrain constantly, a thing much of this country still has to get to grips with.

Anyone who has worked as a mechanic knows from the first week of their apprenticeship that they would have to constantly learn and upskill. No body is in doubt if that.
My point when writing the open post is that the pay is simply not good enough for the job as it is.
I would never recommend anyone to enter the trade just as I was warned before I started.