What's gone wrong with signalling in Heuston this morning?

So what's gone with the signals in Heuston this morning?

What's causing such a major failure in the system?

Beechwoodspark

What a major major mess up by Irish rail this morning

Jamie2k9

Not using backup is part of the problem but have started manual signalling has started.

Emme

Irish Rail have really disgraced themselves this morning. Commuters from all over the country have been let down with just a perfunctory explanation from Irish Rail

Will we be getting compensation from Irish Rail for this?

Imagine all the lost productivity in workplaces this morning thanks to this cock-up by Irish Rail.

Shame on Irish Rail. There are no excuses for this mess.

Irishphotodesk

Emme wrote: »

Irish Rail have really disgraced themselves this morning. Commuters from all over the country have been let down with just a perfunctory explanation from Irish Rail

Will we be getting compensation from Irish Rail for this?

Imagine all the lost productivity in workplaces this morning thanks to this cock-up by Irish Rail.

Shame on Irish Rail. There are no excuses for this mess.

Really, your first question ..... will we get compo ?

Yes, some workplaces will be without commuters for a period of time, I’m sure the majority of commuters can opt for a bus transfer if rail network isn’t operational.

Beechwoodspark

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Really, your first question ..... will we get compo ?

Yes, some workplaces will be without commuters for a period of time, I’m sure the majority of commuters can opt for a bus transfer if rail network isn’t operational.

Ehhh lots of ppl have annual tickets and are charged accordingly every pay day?

Irishphotodesk

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ehhh lots of ppl have annual tickets and are charged accordingly every pay day?

And I’m sure that your annual ticket will work on a bus service for today if it’s the next best option.

It’s a once off, or do you expect you will be compensated for the trains not working because you have an annual pass ?

By all means if you believe you should be compensated contact their customer service and complain and “demand” your compensation, but please don’t get too upset if they ignore you or fail to give you anything in return.

Colonel Claptrap

Can anyone explain what a typical signal failure looks like, and what redundancies are or should be available?

What does manual signalling look like? A man with a flag?

Is it typically software or mechanical failure?
How does the control centre find out? Is there a warning or do they rely on drivers to report it?

Are all signal faults created equal?

Why are Irish rail often slow at providing updates? Can a fix not be implemented relatively quickly, or is it more complex than that.

Thanks.

Beechwoodspark

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

And I’m sure that your annual ticket will work on a bus service for today if it’s the next best option.

It’s a once off, or do you expect you will be compensated for the trains not working because you have an annual pass ?

By all means if you believe you should be compensated contact their customer service and complain and “demand” your compensation, but please don’t get too upset if they ignore you or fail to give you anything in return.

You are “sure” are you?

Why would private bus operaters accept a irish rail annual ticket ???!

Pissartist

Emme wrote: »

Irish Rail have really disgraced themselves this morning. Commuters from all over the country have been let down with just a perfunctory explanation from Irish Rail

Will we be getting compensation from Irish Rail for this?

Imagine all the lost productivity in workplaces this morning thanks to this cock-up by Irish Rail.

Shame on Irish Rail. There are no excuses for this mess.

Maria Bailey ?

Beechwoodspark

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

And I’m sure that your annual ticket will work on a bus service for today if it’s the next best option.

It’s a once off, or do you expect you will be compensated for the trains not working because you have an annual pass ?

By all means if you believe you should be compensated contact their customer service and complain and “demand” your compensation, but please don’t get too upset if they ignore you or fail to give you anything in return.

I expect to be compensated for this journey yes. As do all annual ticket customers.

Irishphotodesk

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I expect to be compensated for this journey yes. As do all annual ticket customers.

So.... complain to Irish rail and seek your compensation, dont forget to include the mental distress payment for the increased stress levels due to having to figure out an alternative route to work, and the extra expense of having to purchase a morning coffee/tea elsewhere because the train wasn’t working - you couldn’t purchase the one you normally purchase on the train.

Do you expect Irish rail should compensate those that commute regularly but are not annual ticket holders ? I’m sure there are people who are equally as annoyed as you who might need to get to a hospital appointment in Dublin but are not a regular train user .... should they also be compensated ? How about those people who were planning on going to the zoo by train from elsewhere in the country.... should they be compensated ?

I had to change my plans this morning - and had to take my car to work instead of taking the train, should I put in a claim for the extra parking expenses I’m forced to endure because of Irish rails error ?

SeeMoreBut

As a train user.

What annoys people is the reason. The old operational problem. Is it staff shortage or a few drivers out sick.

Why not say that points where vandalised, broken, stolen, frozen or whatever.

With the lack of knowledge of reason today makes people wonder how long to fix. More understanding then people might then realise it could take a few hours to fix.

They must have an idea how to fix every issue. Say 30, 1 hour 2 hours. Gives people an idea what to do.

realdanbreen

Emme wrote: »

Will we be getting compensation from Irish Rail for this?

Which train were you on Maria?

Irishphotodesk

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You are “sure” are you?

Why would private bus operaters accept a irish rail annual ticket ???!

“I’m sure” is a turn of phrase, I haven’t checked if Irish rail provided alternative services but logic would dictate they would provide/offer such a service , but feel free to check out if your annual ticket can allow you access on a bus journey, if not.... you could always pay for it and put that into your claim for compensation, after all, Irish rail with this error forced you to take alternative transport.

Allinall

Emme wrote: »

Irish Rail have really disgraced themselves this morning. Commuters from all over the country have been let down with just a perfunctory explanation from Irish Rail

Will we be getting compensation from Irish Rail for this?

Imagine all the lost productivity in workplaces this morning thanks to this cock-up by Irish Rail.

Shame on Irish Rail. There are no excuses for this mess.

Why would you want an explanation when you've already decided there are no excuses?

Have you considered the distinct possibility that Irish Rail at this moment don't actually know what caused the problem, but are putting all their efforts into finding out, and resolving it, rather than wasting time trying to appease passengers with explanations they don't have?

Sh1t happens. get over it.

Beechwoodspark

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

So.... complain to Irish rail and seek your compensation, dont forget to include the mental distress payment for the increased stress levels due to having to figure out an alternative route to work, and the extra expense of having to purchase a morning coffee/tea elsewhere because the train wasn’t working - you couldn’t purchase the one you normally purchase on the train.

Do you expect Irish rail should compensate those that commute regularly but are not annual ticket holders ? I’m sure there are people who are equally as annoyed as you who might need to get to a hospital appointment in Dublin but are not a regular train user .... should they also be compensated ? How about those people who were planning on going to the zoo by train from elsewhere in the country.... should they be compensated ?

I had to change my plans this morning - and had to take my car to work instead of taking the train, should I put in a claim for the extra parking expenses I’m forced to endure because of Irish rails error ?

You are missing the point completely and I suspect deliberately

I and many thousands of others pay directly from our wages a fee for annual ticket

If the service is unavailable for use I expect not to be charged for it. So I will seek a refund.

Clear now???????!

Pissartist

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

You are missing the point completely and I suspect deliberately

I and many thousands of others pay directly from our wages a fee for annual ticket

If the service is unavailable for use I expect not to be charged for it. So I will seek a refund.

Clear now???????!

I know for a fact there will be no refund on annual tickets.

Beechwoodspark

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

As a train user.

What annoys people is the reason. The old operational problem. Is it staff shortage or a few drivers out sick.

Why not say that points where vandalised, broken, stolen, frozen or whatever.

With the lack of knowledge of reason today makes people wonder how long to fix. More understanding then people might then realise it could take a few hours to fix.

They must have an idea how to fix every issue. Say 30, 1 hour 2 hours. Gives people an idea what to do.

It is very frustrating.

Irish rail treat their customers with contempt

Barry Kenny is a great man for the gimmicky photo op posing with leprechauns etc.

Where are you this morning Barry? Nowhere to be seen that’s where.

They issue these general meaningless statements akin to the height of soviet Russia when they were sending political prisoners to the Siberian gulags

We demand to know when the service is back.

We want real-time updates. This is basic

Allinall

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It is very frustrating.

Irish rail treat their customers with contempt

Barry Kenny is a great man for the gimmicky photo op posing with leprechauns etc.

Where are you this morning Barry?

They issue these general meaningless statements akin to the height of soviet Russia when they were sending political prisoners to the Siberian gulags

We demand to know when the service is back.

We want real-time updates. This is basic

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/due-to-a-major-signalling-fault-there-are-currently-no-services-operating-into-and-out-of-heust

Real time update.

Irishphotodesk

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

As a train user.

What annoys people is the reason. The old operational problem. Is it staff shortage or a few drivers out sick.

Why not say that points where vandalised, broken, stolen, frozen or whatever.

With the lack of knowledge of reason today makes people wonder how long to fix. More understanding then people might then realise it could take a few hours to fix.

They must have an idea how to fix every issue. Say 30, 1 hour 2 hours. Gives people an idea what to do.

So are you saying people aren’t annoyed by the fact the train isn’t working it’s the generic “we are not giving details of what the fault is but we will fix it as fast as we can” response which annoys people ?

In my experience the generic answer is done to please the masses, a general “technical problem” should be enough to tell people the service isn’t available and people can make alternative arrangements, Irish rail have identified a problem and before they investigate as to the cause and possible solution of the problem ....is it not better to put out a generic - we have a problem, service is down, please use alternative methods.

I don’t know the issues involved, I heard it on the radio this morning and opted to take my car and use that option for today, yes, it’s more expensive for me but it’s not a regular occurrence.... I certainly won’t be seeking compensation for the train not working.

Beechwoodspark

Allinall wrote: »

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/due-to-a-major-signalling-fault-there-are-currently-no-services-operating-into-and-out-of-heust

Real time update.

Sorry no. That’s a press release with a time stamp. That’s not good enough

k99_64

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Really, your first question ..... will we get compo ?

Yes, some workplaces will be without commuters for a period of time, I’m sure the majority of commuters can opt for a bus transfer if rail network isn’t operational.

Irish rail said there are 'too many issues' so no buses being provided

Allinall

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry no. That’s a press release with a time stamp. That’s not good enough

It might not be good enough for you, but it's a real time update.

They also said more updates to follow, presumably when they have more useful information to impart?

Do you want them to just magic up trains for you?

Beechwoodspark

Allinall wrote: »

It might not be good enough for you, but it's a real time update.

They also said more updates to follow, presumably when they have more useful information to impart?

Do you want them to just magic up trains for you?

Go and google real time update.

You havnt a notion what you are talking about with all due respect.

It is not a press release on a webpage with an easily editable time stamp.

Irishphotodesk

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It is very frustrating.

Irish rail treat their customers with contempt

Barry Kenny is a great man for the gimmicky photo op posing with leprechauns etc.

Where are you this morning Barry? Nowhere to be seen that’s where.

They issue these general meaningless statements akin to the height of soviet Russia when they were sending political prisoners to the Siberian gulags

We demand to know when the service is back.

We want real-time updates. This is basic

You say they treat you (As a customer) with contempt, yet you still use their service ? Is this correct ?
Do you have further examples of their contempt for you as a customer ?

You say you want real time updates....another poster linked real time updates from Irish rail ... so you have real time updates.

Comparing the rail line information to soviet Russia transfer of political prisoners .... really?? Why not go all out and compare it to the nazi’s ... you know for better likes and what not.

Did you contact them yet about your compensation claim ?

Colonel Claptrap

I'd love to see push notifications from their Twitter feed, or a text message system.

Ridiculous situation that I can check their 'real time' timetable on the website but arrive at the station to discover trains have been cancelled for the past hour and Twitter is the only reliable source of information.

Annoying that I must fact check their own timetable against their social media account.

This stuff is simple to fix.

I learned about this morning's delay from the Irish Times breaking news push notification.

Beechwoodspark

k99_64 wrote: »

Irish rail said there are 'too many issues' so no buses being provided

Typical

Is that a Barry Kenny special I wonder

Barry will be out chewing on sausages or something gimmicky like that for a photo op once the fuss dies down.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

And I’m sure that your annual ticket will work on a bus service for today if it’s the next best option.

It’s a once off, or do you expect you will be compensated for the trains not working because you have an annual pass ?

By all means if you believe you should be compensated contact their customer service and complain and “demand” your compensation, but please don’t get too upset if they ignore you or fail to give you anything in return.

Of course people should be compensated. And as far as I know that’s the law.

Allinall

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Go and google real time update.

You havnt a notion what you are talking about with all due respect.

It is not a press release on a webpage with an easily editable time stamp.

Are you implying that Irish rail are lying?

How would they give a real time update other than through the press i.e. a press release?

Irishphotodesk

k99_64 wrote: »

Irish rail said there are 'too many issues' so no buses being provided

Then jump on with beechwood and get on the compo bus .... they forced you to get alternative transport due to their malfunction, they never offered alternative transport.

Beechwoodspark

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'd love to see push notifications from their Twitter feed, or a text message system.

Ridiculous situation that I can check their 'real time' timetable on the website but arrive at the station to discover trains have been cancelled for the past hour and Twitter is the only reliable source of information.

Annoying that I must fact check their own timetable against their social media account.

This stuff is simple to fix.

I learned about this morning's delay from the Irish Times breaking news push notification.

Irish rail don’t do real time updates

They barely do updates at all

They do one liner generalised blasé bland Orwellian speak with no regard for their customers.

The traveling public are a nuisance to them

bucketybuck

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It is very frustrating.

Irish rail treat their customers with contempt

Barry Kenny is a great man for the gimmicky photo op posing with leprechauns etc.

Where are you this morning Barry? Nowhere to be seen that’s where.

They issue these general meaningless statements akin to the height of soviet Russia when they were sending political prisoners to the Siberian gulags

We demand to know when the service is back.

We want real-time updates. This is basic

I'm starting to understand the contempt.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'd love to see push notifications from their Twitter feed, or a text message system.

Ridiculous situation that I can check their 'real time' timetable on the website but arrive at the station to discover trains have been cancelled for the past hour and Twitter is the only reliable source of information.

Annoying that I must fact check their own timetable against their social media account.

This stuff is simple to fix.

I learned about this morning's delay from the Irish Times breaking news push notification.

You can, to be fair, turn on push notifications on their twitter feed using the app - you need the app. I do it and it’s good for days like today. In fact a notification just appeared about the portlaoise trains as I was writing this.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Did you contact them yet about your compensation claim ?

Here’s the link if he cares to.

http://www.irishrail.ie/contact-us/faqs?i=4235

SeeMoreBut

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

So are you saying people aren’t annoyed by the fact the train isn’t working it’s the generic “we are not giving details of what the fault is but we will fix it as fast as we can” response which annoys people ?

In my experience the generic answer is done to please the masses, a general “technical problem” should be enough to tell people the service isn’t available and people can make alternative arrangements, Irish rail have identified a problem and before they investigate as to the cause and possible solution of the problem ....is it not better to put out a generic - we have a problem, service is down, please use alternative methods.

I don’t know the issues involved, I heard it on the radio this morning and opted to take my car and use that option for today, yes, it’s more expensive for me but it’s not a regular occurrence.... I certainly won’t be seeking compensation for the train not working.

Where did I say it doesn't annoy people? It is to many please the masses but it should be more specific if you ask me.

If anything breaks or you getting something created you ask the person how long that will take they would give you a ball park figure but Irish Rail it is nothing on times. It will be fixed whenever it is fixed. That annoys people as they've no idea do I wait here or make different arrangements. If it is 10 minutes you'd sit tight more than likely but an open ended answer is no help for anyone.

Allinall

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

Where did I say it doesn't annoy people? It is to many please the masses but it should be more specific if you ask me.

If anything breaks or you getting something created you ask the person how long that will take they would give you a ball park figure but Irish Rail it is nothing on times. It will be fixed whenever it is fixed. That annoys people as they've no idea do I wait here or make different arrangements. If it is 10 minutes you'd sit tight more than likely but an open ended answer is no help for anyone.

Do you really think that if Irish Rail knew that the issue would be resolved in 10 minutes, or 1 hour or whatever, that they would not say so?

mikekerry

I was once on an IR train and the announcer said there would be no trolly service due to a technical fault!
I think "technical fault" and "signaling issues" cover a lot of problems!

Odyssey 2005

B Kenny admitting they screwed up with their handling of the failure this morning. He said it's not acceptable that customers should find out about the signal failure on Twitter.

He was conspicuous by his absence this morning, the spokesperson on the radio this morning was akin to the Maria bailey interview yesterday.

L1011

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Really, your first question ..... will we get compo ?

Yes, some workplaces will be without commuters for a period of time, I’m sure the majority of commuters can opt for a bus transfer if rail network isn’t operational.

To what bus capacity? The entire public transport system in the Dublin area is running at its limits currently.

Irishphotodesk

L1011 wrote: »

To what bus capacity? The entire public transport system in the Dublin area is running at its limits currently.

I’m not sure how to reply to this can you explain the “to what bus capacity?” Question means please, or would I be correct in assuming you are saying that the train users who can avail of a bus for their commute will be limited by bus capacity and you say that Dublin public transport is currently running at its limits - which implies the extra numbers who would normally take a train would not be accommodated on other public transport because every bus and tram is already full all of the time.

Am I correct in my understanding of your message.

Also, if you have read the thread another person pointed out that Irish rail are not offering alternative transport for persons who normally use their service and cannot this morning.

Emme

Barry Kenny is alive and well and might be posting on this thread.

I am not Maria Bailey. I have been commuting the guts of 3 hours a day by train for 7 years now. Like many I had to move out of Dublin to afford somewhere to live. During those 7 years I have experienced the contempt of Irish Rail towards passengers, particularly on certain routes.

It is not unreasonable for passengers to seek compensation for this morning's fiasco. Even if annual ticket holders have little chance of getting it we should still send in the form (a poster put up a link earlier on this thread) asking for it. I pay a hefty chunk of my salary for an annual ticket and because I pay the lower rate of tax the taxsaver deduction makes little difference to me. I have to make sacrifices in my monthly budget to pay for that ticket.

The real time page was not reporting accurately this morning, it needs to be reviewed so it shows REAL time situations, not IDEAL time situations.

Now it's over to the Irish Rail shills and bots who hang out here.

Irishphotodesk

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

Where did I say it doesn't annoy people? It is to many please the masses but it should be more specific if you ask me.

If anything breaks or you getting something created you ask the person how long that will take they would give you a ball park figure but Irish Rail it is nothing on times. It will be fixed whenever it is fixed. That annoys people as they've no idea do I wait here or make different arrangements. If it is 10 minutes you'd sit tight more than likely but an open ended answer is no help for anyone.

Please highlight below where you stated that rail users are annoyed by the fact the train is delayed ? , because my understanding of what the text says is that what annoys people is the reason, the explanation or lack thereof is the reason for annoyance - you have not said that the fact the train is delayed causes annoyance you said the reason people get annoyed is the information/misinformation and it was implied that this is the sole reason for annoyance.

As regards the lack of information in my opinion a lot of commuters this morning are annoyed but to use a different analogy....it’s similar to phoning a plumber and asking how long until he fixes the problem, without the plumber knowing what the problem is.... give Irish rail time to find out what happened, assess how long it will take to fix and then let them fix it or give an estimate of how long before services are repaired. They cannot be expected to give a timeframe for fixing until they diagnose the problem.

SeeMoreBut wrote: »

As a train user.

What annoys people is the reason. The old operational problem. Is it staff shortage or a few drivers out sick.

Why not say that points where vandalised, broken, stolen, frozen or whatever.

With the lack of knowledge of reason today makes people wonder how long to fix. More understanding then people might then realise it could take a few hours to fix.

They must have an idea how to fix every issue. Say 30, 1 hour 2 hours. Gives people an idea what to do.

L1011

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Am I correct in my understanding of your message.

Yes. There isn't the spare bus capacity to take all the displaced commuters

They are either coming in late or staying at home. We've had a mix of both in work.

BattlingCheese

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Of course people should be compensated. And as far as I know that’s the law.

It is, European Law.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:315:0014:0041:EN:PDF

Pursuant to EC1371 art 16, passengers impacted this morning are entitled to one of the following at no cost
1. Full refund
2. Rerouting, i.e. ticket limited to a specific train can now be used on any train
3. You are entitled to make the journey on a different date


It's not a symptom of comp culture, it's your right as an individual who paid for a service that was not provided.
In fact, more people should claim as Irish Rail will still make money from this morning as a lot of commuters have basically prepaid for the journey via their annual ticket.

Emme

I bet that those responsible for the "signalling problem" :rolleyes: at Irish Rail this morning will get a light rap on the knuckles at most. Then they will go back to laughing at passengers.

On the other hand many of us late for work this morning will be reprimanded or even get an official warning. We will be told that late trains are no excuse for not getting to work on time

Pissartist

Pissartist wrote: »

I know for a fact there will be no refund on annual tickets.

You are wrong. I have requested refunds from Irish rail for various issues over the years I have been commuting be it strike days or snow days or delays and I have gotten money vouchers to turn into cash at the stations.

BattlingCheese

Same here. It takes a while but does happen if you persist.

storker

According to the Indo:

Irish Rail attributed the delays to a "major signal fault" on Twitter and said services "into and out of Heuston are impacted".

Well, if you're going to let Twitter look after your signalling...

Pete_Cavan

BattlingCheese wrote: »

It is, European Law.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:315:0014:0041:EN:PDF

Pursuant to EC1371 art 16, passengers impacted this morning are entitled to one of the following at no cost
1. Full refund
2. Rerouting, i.e. ticket limited to a specific train can now be used on any train
3. You are entitled to make the journey on a different date


It's not a symptom of comp culture, it's your right as an individual who paid for a service that was not provided.
In fact, more people should claim as Irish Rail will still make money from this morning as a lot of commuters have basically prepaid for the journey via their annual ticket.

Passengers who hold a travel pass or season ticket and who encounter recurrent delays or cancellations during its period of validity may request adequate compensation in accordance with the railway undertaking’s compensation arrangements. These arrangements shall state the criteria for determining delay and for the calculation of the compensation.

Compensation for delay shall be calculated in relation to the price which the passenger actually paid for the delayed service.

I take it from this that Annual Pass holders will be entitled to feck all compensation as the price they actually paid for the delayed service would be very little.

Xterminator

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I take it from this that Annual Pass holders will be entitled to feck all compensation as the price they actually paid for the delayed service would be very little.

Do you think they should pay for everyone's taxi fare and throw in a cinema ticket?

A refund pro rata and a genuine apology. That's reasonable.