What's reasonable for charging for charging?

Kramer

I see two options:
1. PAYG, either with a contactless credit/debit card or the ECars rfid card linked to a bank account or
2. A monthly subscription model with a reduced per minute/per kWh charge.
This would suit more regular users of the charging network, regular long distance travellers, appartment dwellers etc.

Option 1, PAYG, what would you consider a reasonable per minute charge?
Option 2, Monthly subscription charge? Per minute charge?

Option 2, subscription model can wait for another poll!

daheff

What happened to a pay per kw usage option?

If you pay by time the losers are people with slower charging capabilities...winners those with higher charging.

Dont be at yourself

daheff wrote: »

If you pay by time the losers are people with slower charging capabilities...winners those with higher charging.

That's fair enough, isn't it? The value in the charging network is in its availability, which is affected by charge time. Better to penalise slower charging cars. Similar to how petrol and diesel prices incentivise people to move away from inefficient ICE.

Kramer

35c/min

daheff wrote: »

What happened to a pay per kw usage option?

Welcome Leaf 24 owner - you're ineligible for this poll .

Needs another poll for per kWh proponents but I've added another to see how many Leaf 24 owners are on here .

Kramer

35c/min

I think 25c/min is good. That's over 4 times the cost of night rate charging & over double the daytime rate.
That will keep any frugal locals off the fast chargers but not penalise others too heavily.

Shefwedfan

Anything that keeps all the free loaders off the network.....

Del2005

How about a price for people who can't get a home charger, living in apartments with unassigned parking. If you have to wait 30+ minutes for a charge then petrol or diesel is a better option.

Kramer

35c/min

Del2005 wrote: »

How about a price for people who can't get a home charger, living in apartments with unassigned parking.

I think a monthly subscription with lower per minute or per kWh would be ideal then, with special incentives to utilise SCPs (lower rate again than FCPs), maybe especially between 12am & 8am etc.

Not too difficult to solve really, wouldn't be too expensive to install many 7kW charge points.

Del2005

Kramer wrote: »

I think a monthly subscription with lower per minute or per kWh would be ideal then, with special incentives to utilise SCPs (lower rate again than FCPs), maybe especially between 12am & 8am etc.

Not too difficult to solve really, wouldn't be too expensive to install many 7kW charge points.

So they have to leave their car in a random car park overnight. Again not much incentive to get out of an ICE.

daheff

Kramer wrote: »

Welcome Leaf 24 owner - you're ineligible for this poll .

Needs another poll for per kWh proponents but I've added another to see how many Leaf 24 owners are on here .

Nope. dont own a leaf.

should be some way to allow cars to charge to say 60% and then add on a per min charge.

...Ghost...

Kramer wrote: »

Welcome Leaf 24 owner - you're ineligible for this poll .

Needs another poll for per kWh proponents but I've added another to see how many Leaf 24 owners are on here .

Then you have not labeled your thread properly. It should be:

What's a reasonable per minute charge for charging rate?

It might stop us pesky Leaf owners from coming into your "me first" thread.

liamog

35c/min

daheff wrote: »

Nope. dont own a leaf.

should be some way to allow cars to charge to say 60% and then add on a per min charge.

It's hard to create a simple system that covers all the requirements.

In ideal world we'd have two networks. One with a per minute fee and one with a per kWh fee. The chargers would be located near each other and we'll let the market decide which works best.

zg3409

25c/min

In terms of kWh vs time, kwh only does not penalise those who slowly wait and charge to 100% on a fast charger. Time based fees penalises those slow charging, as their costs per kWh go up when the charge rate slows down. The slower the charge rate the more expensive time costs add up.

My main short term worry if fees will be introduced before multiple chargers are installed at busy locations. Last I heard the new chargers are starting to be installed in August and may take years to be completed.

Sabre Man

25c/min

zg3409 wrote: »

In terms of kWh vs time, kwh only does not penalise those who slowly wait and charge to 100% on a fast charger. Time based fees penalises those slow charging, as their costs per kWh go up when the charge rate slows down. The slower the charge rate the more expensive time costs add up.

My main short term worry if fees will be introduced before multiple chargers are installed at busy locations. Last I heard the new chargers are starting to be installed in August and may take years to be completed.

They're penalised when it comes to time and costs.

35c/min

The only charge rate that makes sense is to charge per minute based on the maximum rate of the charger as that is what is the only cost really. That minimises the time the chargers are in use and automatically penalises people who overstay they welcome. The per minute pricing should apply from the moment the charging session starts until when it's stopped with the smart card to discourage people abandoning their cars plugged in the chargers.

Per kWh sucks as it won't incentivise people staying on the charger until they are at 100 percent. We should encourage people to vacate the charger when their charge rate begins to taper and not to double or triple the time stayed connected until the car stops charging. For example e-Kona seems to drop down to 24 kW from 48 kW at some stage around 70 percent and the last 30 percent of the battery takes maybe an hour to charge after the initial 40 minutes. It's much better to encourage the owners to disconnect after the initial stage and then drive to the next charger to improve the charger throughput.

Per minute charging would also discourage PHEV and other drivers to use the DC infrastructure as a destination charger equivalent.

3DataModem

Chargers that can detect charge % of car
> quiet hours (night, etc) should be free up to 30%, cheap thereafter
> busy hours should be free up to 30%, expensive thereafter, very expensive after 100%

Other chargers should be cheap up to 60 mins, pricey up to 180m, very expensive thereafter.

Johnboy1951

Charge per KW and charge standard elec day rate plus 15%

KCross

I see Ecotricity are increasing their fees

"Charging on the Electric Highway will now cost 39p per kWh - up from 30p."

ELM327

Anything, I voted for over 50c a min