john walker lindh

hgfj

Apparently this pos is looking to emmigrate to Ireland. Acquired Irish citizenship while in prison because his grandmother was Irish. There is a travel ban against him at the moment but that could be lifted in the future. My understanding is if the ban is lifted there is nothing to stop him from moving and settling in Ireland. 17 years in prison has done nothing to dampen his extremism.



https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/22/politics/john-walker-lindh-american-taliban/index.html

mcmoustache

He can be blocked from entry and should be. As you said, he still has the same views than motivated him to join the Taliban. That being said, he's probably on the no-fly list so I don't think he'll be getting here unless he hitches a ride on a cruise or a cargo ship.

Pero_Bueno

The Halawa crowd will be dying to let him in ..

hgfj

mcmoustache wrote: »

He can be blocked from entry and should be. .

I agree he should be but as an Irish citizen though how can he be blocked from entry?

Birneybau

He can go live with Lisa Smith

mcmoustache

hgfj wrote: »

I agree he should be but as an Irish citizen though how can he be blocked from entry?

I read your post too quickly and missed that. If he's also a US citizen, it shouldn't be too hard to revoke his Irish citizenship.

The Halawa situation is more problematic because his only citizenship is Irish and we can't make him stateless. We probably can't send his Muslim Brotherhood dad back to Egypt either because, well, he'd be fecked. It's a sticky situation but when we live in a free country, sometimes we have to put up with undesirables, homegrown or otherwise.

Fr_Dougal

He was great in Fast and the Furious.

Grayson

hgfj wrote: »

Apparently this pos is looking to emmigrate to Ireland. Acquired Irish citizenship while in prison because his grandmother was Irish. There is a travel ban against him at the moment but that could be lifted in the future. My understanding is if the ban is lifted there is nothing to stop him from moving and settling in Ireland. 17 years in prison has done nothing to dampen his extremism.



https://edition.cnn.com/2019/05/22/politics/john-walker-lindh-american-taliban/index.html

It's a ban and he's not allowed to come here. And you're complaining that although no-one has said it will be lifted, it could potentially be lifted?

I'm ok with things as they stand. If it's ever determined that he's no risk (unlikely) then he can come here. As long as he's considered a danger he can't. That sounds fair.

Grayson

mcmoustache wrote: »

I read your post too quickly and missed that. If he's also a US citizen, it shouldn't be too hard to revoke his Irish citizenship.

The Halawa situation is more problematic because his only citizenship is Irish and we can't make him stateless. We probably can't send his Muslim Brotherhood dad back to Egypt either because, well, he'd be fecked. It's a sticky situation but when we live in a free country, sometimes we have to put up with undesirables, homegrown or otherwise.

When it comes to revoking citizenship I don't think it should ever be done. Citizenship is more of a right than a privilege. However when granting citizenship it might be worth putting in a clause that someone who has committed a serious violent crime and is likely to again should be barred.

Berserker

Grayson wrote: »

It's a ban and he's not allowed to come here.

mcmoustache wrote: »

He can be blocked from entry and should be.

mcmoustache wrote: »

I read your post too quickly and missed that. If he's also a US citizen, it shouldn't be too hard to revoke his Irish citizenship.

Can you block an Irish citizen from entering Ireland? What happens if the US authorities decide to throw him out of their country first (denaturalize him, I mean)?

hgfj

Grayson wrote: »

It's a ban and he's not allowed to come here. And you're complaining that although no-one has said it will be lifted, it could potentially be lifted?

"After he leaves prison, Lindh's actions will be closely watched as part of a sweeping set of conditions imposed on his THREE YEARS OF SUPERVISED RELEASE by Judge T.S. Ellis, who oversees his case in Virginia."


"It appears likely that Lindh's plan to move to Ireland may be prevented AT LEAST FOR NOW by the terms of his supervised release, which say that he cannot hold a passport and can't leave the United States "without the express permission of this Court."

jmreire

Berserker wrote: »

Can you block an Irish citizen from entering Ireland? What happens if the US authorities decide to throw him out of their country first (denaturalize him, I mean)?

The bottom line is, if he is an Irish Citizen, he cannot be stopped from entering Ireland. We already have one naturalized Irish Citizen, Alexandr Bekmirazev, born in Uzbekistan, and unless he will be accepted back there...he cannot be forcibly sent back. So he cannot be stripped of his Irish Citizenship. He like Lisa. was captured after the fall of Baghuz, and he is in prison in Syria at the moment. Then you have the case of the English isis girl, Begum, whose Parents come from Bangladesh, Britain is trying to strip her of her British citizenship, but Bangladesh refuses to recognize her. As far as they are concerned..she was born in Britain, so she is British. That legal battle is ongoing at the moment.

mcmoustache

This revocation stuff is interesting. First of all, it can only be revoked if you got it by naturalisation instead of by birth.

Revocation of Irish citizenship
If you obtained your citizenship by naturalisation, there are some circumstances in which it can be revoked (taken back from you).

How revocation happens
You will be contacted by the Minister for Justice and Equality if your citizenship is to be revoked. Irish citizenship can only be revoked in you obtained it by naturalisation.

Citizenship may be revoked if:

It was obtained by fraud, misrepresentation or by concealing relevant facts
You have failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state
Read other circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked
If your citizenship is to be revoked, you may apply for an inquiry into the reasons why.

So it's actually quite difficult to revoke someone's naturalised citizenship.

mcmoustache

Grayson wrote: »

When it comes to revoking citizenship I don't think it should ever be done. Citizenship is more of a right than a privilege. However when granting citizenship it might be worth putting in a clause that someone who has committed a serious violent crime and is likely to again should be barred.

I think we're on the same page here. I would view my Irish citizenship, and Ibrahim's as a right that shouldn't ever be revoked. On the other hand, if I picked up US citizenship later in life, I would view that as a privilege that could be subject to revocation. An acquired foreign citizenship isn't something that anyone should be entitled to but their birth citizenship is.

This is opinion by the way and not an interpretation of international treaties or anything like that.

jmreire

mcmoustache wrote: »

This revocation stuff is interesting. First of all, it can only be revoked if you got it by naturalisation instead of by birth.
So it's actually quite difficult to revoke someone's naturalised citizenship.

Quote:- It was obtained by fraud, misrepresentation or by concealing relevant facts
You have failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state
Read other circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked

Joining isis would surely qualify for that one?? The isis manifesto includes the stated aim of the destruction of western society.

biko

Maybe him and our own ISIS babe Lisa Smith will hit it off.

Brian?

jmreire wrote: »

The bottom line is, if he is an Irish Citizen, he cannot be stopped from entering Ireland. We already have one naturalized Irish Citizen, Alexandr Bekmirazev, born in Uzbekistan, and unless he will be accepted back there...he cannot be forcibly sent back. So he cannot be stripped of his Irish Citizenship. He like Lisa. was captured after the fall of Baghuz, and he is in prison in Syria at the moment. Then you have the case of the English isis girl, Begum, whose Parents come from Bangladesh, Britain is trying to strip her of her British citizenship, but Bangladesh refuses to recognize her. As far as they are concerned..she was born in Britain, so she is British. That legal battle is ongoing at the moment.

Unlike Ireland, the UK doesn’t have a written constitution. So they have a lot more freedom to revoke citizenship, among other things. I don’t anyone has ever had Irish citizenship revoked, I don’t think it’s actually possible.

Whether it should be, I honestly don’t know. It doesn’t sit comfortably with me that the government of the day gets to decide.

Brian?

jmreire wrote: »

Quote:- It was obtained by fraud, misrepresentation or by concealing relevant facts
You have failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state
Read other circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked

Joining isis would surely qualify for that one?? The isis manifesto includes the stated aim of the destruction of western society.

Why would joining ISIS qualify? They have never attacked Ireland or an Irish embassy. So they are not a belligerent nation or organisation to Ireland.

They’re unquestionably a shower of gowl bags. But I can’t see the Supreme Court ruling on that.

Sonny noggs

jmreire wrote: »

Quote:- It was obtained by fraud, misrepresentation or by concealing relevant facts
You have failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state
Read other circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked

Joining isis would surely qualify for that one?? The isis manifesto includes the stated aim of the destruction of western society.

This guy joined the Taliban (was picked up in Afghanistan in late 2001) rather than ISIS, but I agree with your point...

Sonny noggs

Brian? wrote: »

Why would joining ISIS qualify? They have never attacked Ireland or an Irish embassy. So they are not a belligerent nation or organisation to Ireland.

They’re unquestionably a shower of gowl bags. But I can’t see the Supreme Court ruling on that.

“Isis has called on its followers to wage “all-out war” on the West...”

Fairly unambiguous

topper75

Thanks hgjf for easing my mind somewhat.

This luckybag toy citizenship policy ought to be examined. Could it be brought back to parents only? I suppose the governments cash greed determines otherwise.

Brian?

Sonny noggs wrote: »

“Isis has called on its followers to wage “all-out war” on the West...”

Fairly unambiguous

Zero attacks on Ireland or it's foreign outposts. "The West" is a pretty ambiguous term in itself.

mcmoustache

jmreire wrote: »

Quote:- It was obtained by fraud, misrepresentation or by concealing relevant facts
You have failed in your duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the state
Read other circumstances in which citizenship can be revoked

Joining isis would surely qualify for that one?? The isis manifesto includes the stated aim of the destruction of western society.

That one is tricky and I don't know how it would be interpreted by a judge. My feeling on it is that it refers to other hostile states but interpretations of less than clear law isn't an area that I understand well enough to comment on.

mcmoustache

topper75 wrote: »

Thanks hgjf for easing my mind somewhat.

This luckybag toy citizenship policy ought to be examined. Could it be brought back to parents only? I suppose the governments cash greed determines otherwise.

According to the constitution...

article 2
it is the entitlement and birthright of every person
born in the island of ireland, which includes its
islands and seas, to be part of the irish nation. that is
also the entitlement of all persons otherwise qualified
in accordance with law to be citizens of ireland.
furthermore, the irish nation cherishes its special
affinity with people of irish ancestry living abroad
who share its cultural identity and heritage.

To me this looks like the constitution allows for citizenship by ancestry to be handled by legislation. In other words, there isn't a constitutional issue with changing the law to apply to parents instead of grandparents.

I have to emphasise that this is serious armchair lawyering from myself and should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Pkiernan

So he goes from Johnny Jihad to Paddy Jihaddy.

All hail the wisdom if the glorious left!

mcmoustache

Pkiernan wrote: »

So he goes from Johnny Jihad to Paddy Jihaddy.

All hail the wisdom if the glorious left!

I'd love to know what kind of social media feed leads to this obsession you have with this "left" that you've created in your head and feel like shoehorning into every thread.

Is it full of capital letters, emojis, poor spelling and exclamation points?

biko

John Walker Lindh


likes whiskey and chocolate

hgfj

Pkiernan wrote: »

So he goes from Johnny Jihad to Paddy Jihaddy.

All hail the wisdom if the glorious left!

Not sure what the left (or the right) has got to do with this. He's a convicted terrorist whose views haven't changed. I haven't come across any left-wingers saying he should have the right to come and live here. BTW I'm neither left nor right, probably more of a centrist myself.

biko

Brian? wrote: »

Zero attacks on Ireland or it's foreign outposts. "The West" is a pretty ambiguous term in itself.

Maybe we just haven't reached critical immigration mass yet.
Poland and Hungary hasn't had attacks yet either..

Grayson

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think we're on the same page here. I would view my Irish citizenship, and Ibrahim's as a right that shouldn't ever be revoked. On the other hand, if I picked up US citizenship later in life, I would view that as a privilege that could be subject to revocation. An acquired foreign citizenship isn't something that anyone should be entitled to but their birth citizenship is.

This is opinion by the way and not an interpretation of international treaties or anything like that.

the problem is the citizenship bestows a load of rights. So when you're removing citizenship, you're removing a load of rights too. Even the worst criminals don't have their citizenship revoked. For them we only remove as much rights as is necessary to keep them in prison. they still technically have all the others.

mcmoustache

hgfj wrote: »

Not sure what the left (or the right) has got to do with this. He's a convicted terrorist whose views haven't changed. I haven't come across any left-wingers saying he should have the right to come and live here. BTW I'm neither left nor right, probably more of a centrist myself.

If you look at his post history, he can't help himself. He'd pop into a thread about biscuits and post about how "the left" are banning oreos.

mcmoustache

Grayson wrote: »

the problem is the citizenship bestows a load of rights. So when you're removing citizenship, you're removing a load of rights too. Even the worst criminals don't have their citizenship revoked. For them we only remove as much rights as is necessary to keep them in prison. they still technically have all the others.

Acquired/naturalised citizenship isn't without conditions though. It's something that I would view as a privilege that can be removed, provided that it doesn't leave the person stateless or leave them a citizen that will send them to the gulags on their return.

notobtuse

Didn’t he already obtain Irish citizenship while he was incarcerated? But he will not be allowed to move to Ireland under the terms of his release, as he will be under probation for three years and is barred from leaving the country during his probation. If he attempts to leave the US I believe he will be sent back to jail to serve out the remainder of his sentence. After three years, who knows?