Job creation is the be all and end all now?

SirGerryAdams

Every time there's a new jobs announcement it's met with joy. But when is enough enough? Why is the end goal always more jobs?

Have you seen public transport? Trains already wedged, roads clogged up, people stuck in traffic for hours every day.

We are at historically low unemployment. Salaries are increasing due to the labour shortage (minimum wage workers not increasing by same amount) thus increasing wealth inequality.

I could get this sentiment if we were just coming out of recession but most people who want a job can get one. You may say the number of highly paid jobs increases but so does the low paid ones that exist today.

Tax take will obviously increase but I have yet to see any real investment in public transport, roads, amenities because of this or are adequate enough.

I'm not saying new jobs are bad. If they were being created in rural towns it would allow people to stay local instead of having to move up to the cities but this isn't happening.

What about the quality of life of workers rather than the number of workers?

Odhinn

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Every time there's a new jobs announcement it's met with joy. But when is enough enough? Why is the end goal always more jobs?

Have you seen public transport? Trains already wedged, roads clogged up, people stuck in traffic for hours every day.

We are at historically low unemployment. Salaries are increasing due to the labour shortage (minimum wage workers not increasing by same amount) thus increasing wealth inequality.

I could get this sentiment if we were just coming out of recession but most people who want a job can get one. You may say the number of highly paid jobs increases but so does the low paid ones that exist today.

Tax take will obviously increase but I have yet to see any real investment in public transport, roads, amenities because of this or are adequate enough.

I'm not saying new jobs are bad. If they were being created in rural towns it would allow people to stay local instead of having to move up to the cities but this isn't happening.

What about the quality of life of workers rather than the number of workers?

Gerry - ye took the soup?

SirGerryAdams

Odhinn wrote: »

Gerry - ye took the soup?

Soup?

Odhinn

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Soup?

The soup.

Deebles McBeebles

Have you seen the talk of cutting to a 3/4 day week, OP? Might ease some of the congestion you mentioned.

I suppose more jobs working less hours with more pay would be ideal but that will hardly be the case.

You'd wonder what Karl Marx would do OP.

Bob Harris

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd wonder what Karl Marx would do OP.

My brother knows Karl Marx.

Bob Harris

Bob Harris wrote: »

My brother knows Karl Marx.

How often do you visit him?

ILoveYourVibes

Well i dunno now its nice having a job.

Del2005

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Every time there's a new jobs announcement it's met with joy. But when is enough enough? Why is the end goal always more jobs?

Have you seen public transport? Trains already wedged, roads clogged up, people stuck in traffic for hours every day.

We are at historically low unemployment. Salaries are increasing due to the labour shortage (minimum wage workers not increasing by same amount) thus increasing wealth inequality.

I could get this sentiment if we were just coming out of recession but most people who want a job can get one. You may say the number of highly paid jobs increases but so does the low paid ones that exist today.

Tax take will obviously increase but I have yet to see any real investment in public transport, roads, amenities because of this or are adequate enough.

I'm not saying new jobs are bad. If they were being created in rural towns it would allow people to stay local instead of having to move up to the cities but this isn't happening.

What about the quality of life of workers rather than the number of workers?

People don't want to live in our rural towns so why should businesses set up there? If people did actually live in rural towns then businesses would set up in them. Instead they set up where there are large amounts of people, big cities of which we barely have 1, with good connections.

neris

Alot of the big jobs are in multi nationals for highly skilled/qualified people and been filled by foreign workers coming in to the country and mainly dublin at that. Its jobs out side Dublin and perhaps less skilled that are needed

Bob Harris

If you want people in rural towns then put jobs there. It is the only way people will relocate or stay there. Jobs will attract people and the services to an extent will follow. Personally why anyone would like in Dublin is beyond me apart from work reasons.

SirGerryAdams

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Well i dunno now its nice having a job.

I'm not saying to reduce current jobs. I'm just saying it's not the great thing getting all these jobs when we are at full employment.

SirGerryAdams

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Have you seen the talk of cutting to a 3/4 day week, OP? Might ease some of the congestion you mentioned.

I suppose more jobs working less hours with more pay would be ideal but that will hardly be the case.

If there were actual real discussions and possibility of this then sure...

Maybe in 15 years, by which time peoples youth will be gone. We've had the current housing crisis for about 7 years now. Take a college student graduating at that time, age 23.

That 23 year old has spent the last 7 years struggling for a place to live and putting up with the ****ty transport issues for all that time. That young graduate is now 30, approaching what should be time to have kids or buy a house. Instead, they're house sharing giving over loads of their salary, standing on the same sandwiched train.

SirGerryAdams

neris wrote: »

Alot of the big jobs are in multi nationals for highly skilled/qualified people and been filled by foreign workers coming in to the country and mainly dublin at that. Its jobs out side Dublin and perhaps less skilled that are needed

Yes exactly. People were loving the idea that all brexit finance jobs were coming over here. Except what happens is that the staff move over, competing for housing with people living here, driving up rents and house prices.

Ray Palmer

OP.
You are oblivious to changes that happen, happening and already approved. You claim no investment in transport, did you miss the fact the Luas exists and was expanded?
Unaware of the Metro Link?
Not noticed the plans approved for a massive overhaul of road routes into the city centre.

All the graduates coming out of college need jobs too so we need to have jobs for them.

Besides missing everything and being way off the mark you are correct.

SirGerryAdams

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OP.
You are oblivious to changes that happen, happening and already approved. You claim no investment in transport, did you miss the fact the Luas exists and was expanded?
Unaware of the Metro Link?
Not noticed the plans approved for a massive overhaul of road routes into the city centre.

All the graduates coming out of college need jobs too so we need to have jobs for them.

Besides missing everything and being way off the mark you are correct.

The luas is absolutely wedged. It is not comfortable to use.

Metrolink is supposed to be open in 2027...another 8 years away. The route is getting chopped and changed and bits knocked off it already. I highly doubt it'll be ready in 2027.

There's plenty of jobs for graduates. There's a reason salaries are soaring, because there's not enough people for the jobs.

In any case, I can't get too much joy about new jobs for graduates when they have to move across the country and house share and use ****ty public transport for a job....

topper75

I think many of the current generation of young people in Ireland have yet decided whether they want lax immigration or affordable housing.
They seem to be under the illusion that you can have both simultaneously. The 'fixed resources' cornerstone-of-economics penny has not yet dropped.

I don't really care as an older person which option they go for.

ToddyDoody

Bob Harris wrote: »

My brother knows Karl Marx.

I know a Mark Marx.

Grayson

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

The luas is absolutely wedged. It is not comfortable to use.

Metrolink is supposed to be open in 2027...another 8 years away. The route is getting chopped and changed and bits knocked off it already. I highly doubt it'll be ready in 2027.

There's plenty of jobs for graduates. There's a reason salaries are soaring, because there's not enough people for the jobs.

In any case, I can't get too much joy about new jobs for graduates when they have to move across the country and house share and use ****ty public transport for a job....

So you'd prefer they didn't have jobs?

Seriously, I'm not getting your argument. You're complaining about transport. then you complain about transport improvements. then you complain about jobs being created and then you say you're not happy that there's jobs for college students.

You can see why this is a bit confusing.

SirGerryAdams

Grayson wrote: »

So you'd prefer they didn't have jobs?

Seriously, I'm not getting your argument. You're complaining about transport. then you complain about transport improvements. then you complain about jobs being created and then you say you're not happy that there's jobs for college students.

You can see why this is a bit confusing.

People retire too you know.

Grayson

topper75 wrote: »

I think many of the current generation of young people in Ireland have yet decided whether they want lax immigration or affordable housing.
They seem to be under the illusion that you can have both simultaneously. The 'fixed resources' cornerstone-of-economics penny has not yet dropped.

I don't really care as an older person which option they go for.

It's not one or the other. It's possible to have both. Our problem is that our economy has recovered really fast from the recession and is booming. During the recession there was no development. And that's how we got to a point in about 5-6 years from having adequate housing to inadequate. And 5-6 years is a really short time for an economy.

Now I do think the government could do more. But I'm not sure there was much they could have done 6 years ago. Can you imagine encouraging development in a depressed housing market?

Grayson

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

People retire too you know.

Your point is?

Honestly, sometimes it's hard to tell if someone has a really stupid argument or if they're trolling.

Fr_Dougal

Half these job announcements are BS. I worked for a company who made an announcement that they were taking on two hundred new employees, and at the same time they made around 30 people redundant. There were no new jobs, it was a PR exercise.

Neames

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Half these job announcements are BS. I worked for a company who made an announcement that they were taking on two hundred new employees, and at the same time they made around 30 people redundant. There were no new jobs, it was a PR exercise.

That's the Catholic church for ya.

hmmm

I've seen it all now - people complaining about too many jobs.

There is a moral dimension to having a job and a work ethic, its seen as a good thing, self-reliance, contributing, improving yourself are seen as morally good while not having a job is seen as moral failings laziness, etc.

Universal basic income is going to come in, in form or another so it will be intersting to see how work comes to be viewed in the future.

Lots of issue with a universial basic income.

SirGerryAdams

hmmm wrote: »

I've seen it all now - people complaining about too many jobs.

Why isn't it a valid concern? We're not in a recession anymore.

Diceicle

Bob Harris wrote: »

My brother knows Karl Marx.

Did he meet him eating mushrooms in the peoples park?

Diceicle

neris wrote: »

Alot of the big jobs are in multi nationals for highly skilled/qualified people and been filled by foreign workers coming in to the country and mainly dublin at that. Its jobs out side Dublin and perhaps less skilled that are needed

I believe the figure quoted by Prime Time was 64% of all new jobs taken by non-Irish

Shai

Diceicle wrote: »

I believe the figure quoted by Prime Time was 64% of all new jobs taken by non-Irish

unless I'm mistaken, the actual data says something different. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-employment-figures-show-one-11717881 wrote:

Meanwhile, accommodation and food services along with wholesale and retail trade, repair of motor vehicles and motorcycles, administrative and support service activities, manufacturing and the information and communication sectors made up 64% (263,076) of all foreign nationals employed here.

Ray Palmer

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OP.
You are oblivious to changes that happen, happening and already approved. You claim no investment in transport, did you miss the fact the Luas exists and was expanded?
Unaware of the Metro Link?
Not noticed the plans approved for a massive overhaul of road routes into the city centre.

All the graduates coming out of college need jobs too so we need to have jobs for them.

Besides missing everything and being way off the mark you are correct.

The luas is absolutely wedged. It is not comfortable to use.

Metrolink is supposed to be open in 2027...another 8 years away. The route is getting chopped and changed and bits knocked off it already. I highly doubt it'll be ready in 2027.

There's plenty of jobs for graduates. There's a reason salaries are soaring, because there's not enough people for the jobs.

In any case, I can't get too much joy about new jobs for graduates when they have to move across the country and house share and use ****ty public transport for a job....

The claim was NOTHING was done for public transport. Obviously that is untrue.

I just simply disagree about needing jobs for an increasing population where more graduates come out each year.

LirW

I've met plenty of people that would love to stay in the South-East but there simply aren't any jobs. There's low-skilled labour, there are trades but if you're a graduate who wants to stay local you'll spend a long time looking for something.

It's a catch 22, the ones who have a good education but want to stay local struggle to find work and have to move. It drains the area of well-educated people and clogs the ways into cities.
And it's harder for people to move out of expensive cities into towns because if they're not lucky and find a job local they'll end up commuting back again.

frosty123

neris wrote: »

Alot of the big jobs are in multi nationals for highly skilled/qualified people and been filled by foreign workers coming in to the country and mainly dublin at that. Its jobs out side Dublin and perhaps less skilled that are needed

Yep, ive been looking for work since sept...and next to no job offers, so this economic upturn is a myth as far as im concerned

Kermit.de.frog

LirW wrote: »

I've met plenty of people that would love to stay in the South-East but there simply aren't any jobs. There's low-skilled labour, there are trades but if you're a graduate who wants to stay local you'll spend a long time looking for something.

It's a catch 22, the ones who have a good education but want to stay local struggle to find work and have to move. It drains the area of well-educated people and clogs the ways into cities.
And it's harder for people to move out of expensive cities into towns because if they're not lucky and find a job local they'll end up commuting back again.

I understand the sentiment but this issue of not enough good jobs in rural Ireland is the same all around the world.

Good jobs, like it or not, will always be in the bigger cities.

The notion of somehow evening out rural Ireland with Dublin or even Cork is total waste of time.

For the vast majority of graduate jobs young people will always have to move to the cities.

Not unique to Ireland.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The notion of somehow evening out rural Ireland with Dublin or even Cork is total waste of time.

The Dubs might thank you for it but Limerick, Galway and Waterford etc would raise hell.

So on we go.:pac:

Geuze

Overall employment rates aren't very high in Ireland.

Berserker

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Half these job announcements are BS. I worked for a company who made an announcement that they were taking on two hundred new employees, and at the same time they made around 30 people redundant. There were no new jobs, it was a PR exercise.

Or it's call centre work. An ex-employer of mine created one hundred hi-tech jobs in Ireland when it moved it's call centre from the US to Ireland. Saved a fortune on salaries and bonuses in the process.

Geuze wrote: »

Overall employment rates aren't very high in Ireland.

Am I reading this correctly? Pretty sure the country is bordering on full employment at the moment.

vriesmays

LirW wrote: »

I've met plenty of people that would love to stay in the South-East but there simply aren't any jobs. There's low-skilled labour, there are trades but if you're a graduate who wants to stay local you'll spend a long time looking for something.

Once Waterford gets a university there will be loads of graduate jobs in the South East.

kowloon

Automation is going to continue to wipe out jobs, people will find new jobs to do and with it consumption will rise. At some point we'll have to start managing based on resources, not consumption. Or we could fight over the resources.

riclad

The government needs more tax revenue, the national debt is very large,
they might think if some companys leave with brexit we need to be ready,
we are in a free market ,if companys want to come here ,
and build office,s etc who is going to say stop.
We have a problem now, a housing crisis, theres not enough rental units
for the people that need accomodation.
We need 30k plus houses to be built every years just to provide house,s for the population we have now .
Maybe the traffic jams and high rents will discourage employers from coming here .
Automation will replace some jobs,
things like self driving cars and trucks are maybe 10 years away.
Most people work in retail, or offices , theres not many factorys in ireland

making cars or other physical objects where they can install robots
to take over from people doing work.

LirW

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I understand the sentiment but this issue of not enough good jobs in rural Ireland is the same all around the world.

Good jobs, like it or not, will always be in the bigger cities.

The notion of somehow evening out rural Ireland with Dublin or even Cork is total waste of time.

For the vast majority of graduate jobs young people will always have to move to the cities.

Not unique to Ireland.

That's all well and good but a point is reached where graduates have to go to cities yet they can't actually afford to live there.
I'm not saying Intel should be sent to South Kilkenny but the lack of opportunity drains smaller towns of much needed innovation that could start local businesses and employ people.

I appreciate there will always be areas that will be poor in regards of employment because they lack infrastructure or it's simply an area with a history of difficulties.

I also appreciate that young people tend to have the desire of living in an urban area but there is a big more mature workforce out there that has a strong desire to settle in a stable environment that allows a great work life balance and in another thread it showed there is a good number of people that would prefer to bring up their children outside of Dublin, Cork or Galway.

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault that there's little opportunity in some parts of the country, it's a mixture of the urban attraction, brain drain and the insane policies that hinder small businesses to take off in the first place (astronomical insurance for example).

Del2005

riclad wrote: »

Maybe the traffic jams and high rents will discourage employers from coming here

Companies are setting up in San Fran and Silicone Valley where the rents are crazy and traffic is worse. They go where the knowledge is.

LirW wrote: »

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault that there's little opportunity in some parts of the country, it's a mixture of the urban attraction, brain drain and the insane policies that hinder small businesses to take off in the first place (astronomical insurance for example).

It's actually the ribbon development that's killing our rural towns and villages not urban attraction. How many people are building their McMansion within walking distance of the local village/town compared to on a plot 2km from the next house? If people lived in towns/villages then facilities can be provided like reliable public transport and internet, instead we have to spend €3bn+ to run fibre to every boreen in the country and now we can't provide other infrastructure.

mazwell

Del2005 wrote: »

People don't want to live in our rural towns so why should businesses set up there? If people did actually live in rural towns then businesses would set up in them. Instead they set up where there are large amounts of people, big cities of which we barely have 1, with good connections.

Yes we do. There just aren't any jobs in them. Nearly every man I know in my area works away and comes home at weekends (my husband works in galway, my best friends husband works in Dublin, two of my other friends have husbands working in England). I'm from donegal. But were not stupid enough to think there'll ever be investment here in transport etc. And there'll never be incentives for companies to set up here. Its Dublin,cork,galway or nothing. So we suck it up cus we have no choice

Geuze

Berserker wrote: »

Am I reading this correctly? Pretty sure the country is bordering on full employment at the moment.

Full-employment means that unemployment has fallen to its natural rate.

Approx 5%.

But our employment rate is not very high.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Employment_statistics

It's close to the EU average.

Del2005

mazwell wrote: »

Yes we do. There just aren't any jobs in them. Nearly every man I know in my area works away and comes home at weekends (my husband works in galway, my best friends husband works in Dublin, two of my other friends have husbands working in England). I'm from donegal. But were not stupid enough to think there'll ever be investment here in transport etc. And there'll never be incentives for companies to set up here. Its Dublin,cork,galway or nothing. So we suck it up cus we have no choice

Do all these people live in a town or village?

SirGerryAdams

Been thinking about this more and I am doubling down on my opinion. Why do we need more jobs.

There has to be a point where the number of jobs in a country is sufficient for the population.

The more high paying jobs created, the more ****ty paid jobs are created furthering the wealth divide.

Thinking about green issues, emissions etc. Why would we be in support of increasing the population through foreign workers and more jobs if we care so much about the environment? They say we'll have 1m more people in 20 years time. Our fertility rate is below 2 meaning population will decrease without immigration.

But if our population grows by 1m in the next 20 years, that means we need to cut our emissions by 20% just to stay at todays (seemingly terrible) level.