Firearms cert approval if superintendent absent?

JohnFitz2332

Hypothetically speaking, if your local station was the one that a superintendent was suspended from recently and you had a license application pending, would that application just hang in limbo? I say hypothetically because I heard a rumour that it may be my local station where the suspension happened but am not sure if true.

Cass

Until someone else can sign off your application, most likely.

There was an instance a good few years back where Inspectors were signing off on renewals (not applications) and there was a hint of it not being legally correct as the Firearms Act only allows for the signing of licenses to be done by Chief Super or Super (its the Commissioner's job, but it can be delegated to Chief Super/Super however no one of a lower rank i believe).

JohnFitz2332

Cass wrote: »

Until someone else can sign off your application, most likely.

There was an instance a good few years back where Inspectors were signing off on renewals (not applications) and there was a hint of it not being legally correct as the Firearms Act only allows for the signing of licenses to be done by Chief Super or Super (its the Commissioner's job, but it can be delegated to Chief Super/Super however no one of a lower rank i believe).

This makes me sad beyond belief

Cass

Don't doubt it lad. With recent reports of lads waiting since last October/November for grants only coming in this week this won't help.

JohnFitz2332

Cass wrote: »

Don't doubt it lad. With recent reports of lads waiting since last October/November for grants only coming in this week this won't help.

That's for sure. Shame because this station processed my last one in 20 days.

Cass

Pay the Super's bail and ask him to sign the application.

Kran

I was only thinking the same myself when I heard a super was under investigation. Hope it’s not my area as just dropped an application off myself. You might not want to mention the town but which county was it?

JohnFitz2332

Kran wrote: »

I was only thinking the same myself when I heard a super was under investigation. Hope it’s not my area as just dropped an application off myself. You might not want to mention the town but which county was it?

We may or may not be the all Ireland hurling champions and the town may or may not have the same name as the county

Kran

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

We may or may not be the all Ireland hurling champions and the town may or may not have the same name as the county

Hope you get sorted, worst thing is you won’t even know for months if this is affecting you.

JohnFitz2332

Kran wrote: »

Hope you get sorted, worst thing is you won’t even know for months if this is affecting you.

Cheers mate. Yeah.. It sucks. The FO told me Thursday that the application was with the Super. That was also the day the s**t hit the fan. If it's all true, then I should probably expect to be waiting a lot longer than 3 months

BattleCorp

They'll get another Super to cover the district. One of my licences was signed off by a Super in a different district.

BattleCorp

They'll get another Super to cover the district. One of my licences was signed off by a Super in a different district.

Vizzy

The licence will be signed off by whoever is "acting" for the Super while he is suspended.
Same as would happen if the Super was out on long term sick leave.

All my recent renewal( for the last 4 or 5 years) letters have been signed off by an Inspector, but I have no doubt that the Super has seen them first.

JohnFitz2332

Battle Corp, Vizzy - you have filled this 29 and 3/4 year old with youthful optimism

Savage93

Cass wrote: »

Until someone else can sign off your application, most likely.

There was an instance a good few years back where Inspectors were signing off on renewals (not applications) and there was a hint of it not being legally correct as the Firearms Act only allows for the signing of licenses to be done by Chief Super or Super (its the Commissioner's job, but it can be delegated to Chief Super/Super however no one of a lower rank i believe).

I had a renewal last month signed off by the local inspector. Gorey area, chief super Enniscorthy based

Cass

I'm not saying it cannot be done and i have had licenses signed off on by an Inspector a few years back when we had two Supers in my locale retire with no replacements.

However it did raise the "is it legal" question. Or more accurately are the licenses valid. It's like a Super signing off on a restricted license. He cannot legally do it, and any license issued by a Super for a restricted license would be moot as soon as it was issued.

Grizzly 45

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Hypothetically speaking, if your local station was the one that a superintendent was suspended from recently and you had a license application pending, would that application just hang in limbo? I say hypothetically because I heard a rumour that it may be my local station where the suspension happened but am not sure if true.

It will fall to whoever is then designated "acting Superintendent" for the district by the cheif Comiss,to keep the day to day running of the station going.That will be usually someone at senior inspector rank.Happened in my dist when the super previous has to consider his position when I had a .22 pistol cert in.

JohnFitz2332

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Roxboro??? If it is,I wouldn't be a bit surprised...:rolleyes: Hypothetically of course.

That may or may not be my local station. Reaaaally hoping I get my license soon despite the rumored staffing issues.

JohnFitz2332

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Roxboro??? If it is,I wouldn't be a bit surprised...:rolleyes: Hypothetically of course.

Anyway, silly pretenses aside, the FO in Roxboro is excellent in fairness. No BS with her

JohnFitz2332

Question for Limerick people:

Has anyone had a new license or renewal signed off by ROXBORO GS in the last 3 weeks?

Bagpipe

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Question for Limerick people:

Has anyone had a new license or renewal signed off by ROXBORO GS in the last 3 weeks?

Same question but anyone in the Claremorris area?

jb88

Had two renewal licences signed off by an Inspector, both renewal forms posted to me yesterday. Ive not seen it before.

JohnFitz2332

jb88 wrote: »

Had two renewal licences signed off by an Inspector, both renewal forms posted to me yesterday. Ive not seen it before.

Same for me yesterday. In Roxboro, there's an Inspector as acting super while the other lad is allegedly being investigated.


I was refused a moderator, however, despite having given a list of reasons for requiring it.

BattleCorp

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Same for me yesterday. In Roxboro, there's an Inspector as acting super while the other lad is allegedly being investigated.


I was refused a moderator, however, despite having given a list of reasons for requiring it.

Did you get the refusal in writing?

JohnFitz2332

BattleCorp wrote: »

Did you get the refusal in writing?

No, the FO called me and said the rifle was approved but the moderator won't be granted.

It may be included on the grant letter when that arrives I guess?

BattleCorp

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

No, the FO called me and said the rifle was approved but the moderator won't be granted.

It may be included on the grant letter when that arrives I guess?

You should request the refusal in writing. You are entitled to it as far as I am aware.

Peppa Cig

On the subject of refusals - where does it leave you on costs if RFD has firearm on hold for you/ordered in for you and you get a refusal for your application?

Grizzly 45

If it ends up in court and you win,your RFD is in for a full payment.As it is associated costs of your case..

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

You should request the refusal in writing. You are entitled to it as far as I am aware.

Very much so,as it is classified as a "firearm"in it's own right under legislation.So the refusal must be in writing.

Peppa Cig

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If it ends up in court and you win,your RFD is in for a full payment.As it is associated costs of your case..

And if you don’t win?

Prompts another question please - what percentage of appeals would you say are successful?

Bagpipe

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

No, the FO called me and said the rifle was approved but the moderator won't be granted.

It may be included on the grant letter when that arrives I guess?

Would it be a good idea to call in and ask about the progress on an application? Or would that be classified as 'getting cheeky'?

JohnFitz2332

Bagpipe wrote: »

Would it be a good idea to call in and ask about the progress on an application? Or would that be classified as 'getting cheeky'?

Well, the rifle has been approved. They already called me to inform. Think I'm gonna go meet the acting super and have a chat about the moderator. If he doesn't know anything about guns he might have just gotten spooked at the idea of a silencer (seeing as he's only been an acting super a couple of weeks and possibly hasn't signed off on firearms before).

Could be an idea to just explain in a little more detail why moderators are important and shouldn't be a concern. Of course, it could backfire and he might think I'm a gowl. Remains to be seen.

Cass

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Same for me yesterday.

Congrats by the way.

I was refused a moderator, however, despite having given a list of reasons for requiring it.

As the lads have said you are entitled to a refusal in writing. NEVER accept anything over the phone as it's not an official refusal and you cannot appeal a phone call. Get everything n writing.

Peppa Cig wrote: »

And if you don’t win?

You don't win, and end up paying costs yourself although, and not to sugar coat it, you are not guaranteed costs with every case. I know a chap that two years went the court route, won, but was not awarded costs. It wasn't mortgage level costs, but still a couple of grand.

Its this reason most lads don't appeal and why refusals are becoming more common place. While AGS have much higher budgets each district is now responsible for their own legal costs, afaik, and so they tend to balk if it goes the court route.

Prompts another question please - what percentage of appeals would you say are successful?

No idea actually. Based solely on observation, reports, and word of mouth (for whatever that is worth) i'd say it's high 90% if not higher.

Grizzly 45

Peppa Cig wrote: »

And if you don’t win?

Prompts another question please - what percentage of appeals would you say are successful?

At the height of the pistol and semi auto rifle appeals,we were pulling appx 95% success rates in DC courts nationally according to NARGC figures.

As for court costs,if you have hauled in expert witnesses,junior council and your solicitor,and the guns are over a grand in value,it seems DC judges will look more favourably at costs.[Proably as they wont see their fellow legals going out of pocket.]

Grizzly 45

JohnFitz2332 wrote: »

Well, the rifle has been approved. They already called me to inform. Think I'm gonna go meet the acting super and have a chat about the moderator. If he doesn't know anything about guns he might have just gotten spooked at the idea of a silencer (seeing as he's only been an acting super a couple of weeks and possibly hasn't signed off on firearms before).

Could be an idea to just explain in a little more detail why moderators are important and shouldn't be a concern. Of course, it could backfire and he might think I'm a gowl. Remains to be seen.

He is obliged to meet you ,and you can certainly demand that he puts his reasons for refusal in writing.It' not being anything,it's following legal protocol and requirement and he is obliged to do so vis the Garda guidelines on this too.
You might get some quare rationale,and granting the silencer on condition you only use it on ranges,or on your own private property,as what I got on my .22,but can happily hunt anywhere with the .308...Go figure... If they offer such,my advice is to take it.You can always come back again for another bite and say some of the conditions are too vexatious or burdensome,as your conditions changed.IE you got a job culling wabbits on some ground you shoot,and need the silencer for that.