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Cardiac march

  • 18-05-2019 10:22pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭ Gillman1998


    So, my first cardiac march. Firstly, how disgraceful that people still have to do this kind of thing. I saw one local TD, David Cullinane, and several local and euro hopefuls. I suspect if we didn’t have elections next week the roll call would have been a lot less.

    The speakers were all impressive, dignified and powerful.

    Not sure how useful marching is, I suspect things have to get a lot closer to the seat of power before anybody takes any notice.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,370 ✭✭✭ Wanderer2010


    Does John Halligan ever go on these marches or has he stopped pretending to care about this issue altogether at this stage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Byterche


    The quality of politicians we send to the Dail has been of a poor standard for quite some time now. It's clear the major parties don't care about Waterford. As a constituency, we need to start electing better candidates if we want things to improve here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭ fricatus


    Byterche wrote: »
    The quality of politicians we send to the Dail has been of a poor standard for quite some time now. It's clear the major parties don't care about Waterford. As a constituency, we need to start electing better candidates if we want things to improve here.

    Plus a directly elected mayor. Such a person would have a mandate from the voters that would be harder to ignore than individual councillors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Byterche wrote: »
    The quality of politicians we send to the Dail has been of a poor standard for quite some time now. It's clear the major parties don't care about Waterford. As a constituency, we need to start electing better candidates if we want things to improve here.

    Granted, the likes of deasy, conway, butler, halligan etc have been useless, but we would be in better position if we reelected coffey last time out, fg supporter or whatever, I don't care, he was achieving stuff and the public, in their wisdom/stupidity decided against him, probably due to a general anger at FG, water charges etc.effectively, we kicked ourselves rather than govt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Does John Halligan ever go on these marches or has he stopped pretending to care about this issue altogether at this stage?

    John, as a Government Minister, would be strung up if he attended a protest march.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭ Deiseen


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Granted, the likes of deasy, conway, butler, halligan etc have been useless, but we would be in better position if we reelected coffey last time out, fg supporter or whatever, I don't care, he was achieving stuff and the public, in their wisdom/stupidity decided against him, probably due to a general anger at FG, water charges etc.effectively, we kicked ourselves rather than govt.

    I've good time for Coffey but didn't he basically sign us up to the Southern Hospital group which is the source of all our problems? I know he was given assurances that weren't honoured but still.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭ DLS_75


    Deiseen wrote: »
    I've good time for Coffey but didn't he basically sign us up to the Southern Hospital group which is the source of all our problems? I know he was given assurances that weren't honoured but still.

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong

    Don’t think there was much he could have done about that. Waterford’s problem has always been its small population. Even Wexford has more people and also more TDs. Look at all we need and then look at the TDs that we have to fight for us. Deasy is a waste of space so you can put a line through him. Halligan was a good local councillor but didn’t know what to do with himself when he suddenly found himself as part of the government (and then he was steamrolled). Cullinane is good but is susceptible to the odd serious error in judgement here and there. Mary Butler is another that made a good councillor but her rise to political seniority happened too quickly. She’s weak. So, you see the problem we’re facing.

    As for the protest, I was there but honestly, am getting bored of hearing all the same speakers. And it also doesn’t look good that the numbers were so small.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ Gardner


    DLS_75 wrote: »
    Don’t think there was much he could have done about that. Waterford’s problem has always been its small population. Even Wexford has more people and also more TDs. Look at all we need and then look at the TDs that we have to fight for us. Deasy is a waste of space so you can put a line through him. Halligan was a good local councillor but didn’t know what to do with himself when he suddenly found himself as part of the government (and then he was steamrolled). Cullinane is good but is susceptible to the odd serious error in judgement here and there. Mary Butler is another that made a good councillor but her rise to political seniority happened too quickly. She’s weak. So, you see the problem we’re facing.

    As for the protest, I was there but honestly, am getting bored of hearing all the same speakers. And it also doesn’t look good that the numbers were so small.

    was there myself and agree with the above. i think certain people involved in the campaign have made it more about themselves than the campaign itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Gardner wrote: »
    was there myself and agree with the above. i think certain people involved in the campaign have made it more about themselves than the campaign itself.

    Tired of marching for the fifth or sixth time, I left before speeches. Caught between, we need to keep it out there that this issue wont go away but obviously we are getting diminishing returns in terms of exposure etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,048 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Tired of marching for the fifth or sixth time, I left before speeches. Caught between, we need to keep it out there that this issue wont go away but obviously we are getting diminishing returns in terms of exposure etc

    It did have a sense of "Is there anything to be said for saying another mass" about it sadly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭ deisemum


    Were there many at it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ Gardner


    less than a thousand


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭ deisemum


    Gardner wrote: »
    less than a thousand

    That's a big drop on the previous march.


  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭ azimuth17


    Gardai said approx 2500. people vanished at the speeches. The first speaker was from the trade unions and ranted on for a long time. People just melted away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭ Deise Vu


    Unfortunately I think, together with protest fatigue, the timing for Saturday's march could have been better. There was a clash with the Munster/ Leinster rugby and there was also a lot of communions on which these days means big family gatherings on a par with a small wedding.

    Hopefully this will raise the outrage levels a bit again: https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0117/1023858-dental-waiting-lists/

    This is a report on the dental waiting lists by HSE region. Check out the interactive map showing the waiting list by region. Particularly compare the SE with Cork / Kerry, Limerick and Minister Harris's constituency of Wicklow (which also has parts of south Dublin such as Dun Laoighre).


    Guess who has to suffer longest in the country. Yep, quelle surprise, over 27% of the total kids on the dental waiting lists are in the South East. As the subject is particularly close to my heart at the moment I did a bit of further research and got the numbers per region and did the maths. There are only 817 out 364,000 population on a waiting list in the Ministers constituency (about 0.22%); in Limerick the figure is 0.44%; Cork 0.58% but the South east is 4.61%, nearly 21 (Twenty One!!) times higher than Minister Harris's backyard. It is good to know that our overlords in Cork are also allocating the cash in a fair and reasonable manner.

    We are not the "Gentle County", we are bunch of muppets if we don't greet these chancers at our doors with some free dental treatment of our own.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    Unfortunately I think, together with protest fatigue, the timing for Saturday's march could have been better. There was a clash with the Munster/ Leinster rugby and there was also a lot of communions on which these days means big family gatherings on a par with a small wedding.

    Hopefully this will raise the outrage levels a bit again: https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0117/1023858-dental-waiting-lists/

    This is a report on the dental waiting lists by HSE region. Check out the interactive map showing the waiting list by region. Particularly compare the SE with Cork / Kerry, Limerick and Minister Harris's constituency of Wicklow (which also has parts of south Dublin such as Dun Laoighre).


    Guess who has to suffer longest in the country. Yep, quelle surprise, over 27% of the total kids on the dental waiting lists are in the South East. As the subject is particularly close to my heart at the moment I did a bit of further research and got the numbers per region and did the maths. There are only 817 out 364,000 population on a waiting list in the Ministers constituency (about 0.22%); in Limerick the figure is 0.44%; Cork 0.58% but the South east is 4.61%, nearly 21 (Twenty One!!) times higher than Minister Harris's backyard. It is good to know that our overlords in Cork are also allocating the cash in a fair and reasonable manner.

    We are not the "Gentle County", we are bunch of muppets if we don't greet these chancers at our doors with some free dental treatment of our own.

    To drill into that further (excuse the pun) are those lists relevant to orthodontic treatment? I wonder if it goes further to set out the take up in the region per head of population?

    I remember going in for an examination as a kid and we were told we could be years so best to go for private if we could.

    If it was my own kid now I wouldn't even consider bringing them to the HSE for orthodontic treatment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭ Deise Vu


    hardybuck wrote: »
    To drill into that further (excuse the pun) are those lists relevant to orthodontic treatment? I wonder if it goes further to set out the take up in the region per head of population?

    I remember going in for an examination as a kid and we were told we could be years so best to go for private if we could.

    If it was my own kid now I wouldn't even consider bringing them to the HSE for orthodontic treatment.

    At the end of the report it mentions screening for diseases so it is not just orthodontic treatment although that is the most relevant one due the relative cost versus the cost of routine treatment. I mentioned it is personally relevant to me because I have a kid who was assessed in 6th class as needing orthodontic treatment. He had his brace put on yesterday. He is finished TY on Friday! If we were living in Cork, Limerick, Wicklow or Dublin he would probably be finished. Now it will interfere with his LC.

    I have another kid currently in 6th class who probably needs treatment. He hasn't been assessed since 4th class, when he was told he would be checked in 6th and then go on the list. We have been told this is postponed to first year now. I suspect this is the HSE's cunning plan to bring down the waiting list. If no-one is being assessed, there is no backlog. Simples!

    Obviously, I cannot allow him to go until 5th or 6th year in secondary without treatment so I will have to pay the €4K or so for private treatment. I will be having words with any politician brave enough to approach my front door.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    At the end of the report it mentions screening for diseases so it is not just orthodontic treatment although that is the most relevant one due the relative cost versus the cost of routine treatment. I mentioned it is personally relevant to me because I have a kid who was assessed in 6th class as needing orthodontic treatment. He had his brace put on yesterday. He is finished TY on Friday! If we were living in Cork, Limerick, Wicklow or Dublin he would probably be finished. Now it will interfere with his LC.

    I have another kid currently in 6th class who probably needs treatment. He hasn't been assessed since 4th class, when he was told he would be checked in 6th and then go on the list. We have been told this is postponed to first year now. I suspect this is the HSE's cunning plan to bring down the waiting list. If no-one is being assessed, there is no backlog. Simples!

    Obviously, I cannot allow him to go until 5th or 6th year in secondary without treatment so I will have to pay the €4K or so for private treatment. I will be having words with any politician brave enough to approach my front door.

    Yeah I was wondering if they were able to state how many people got treatment in the region it might be a better indicator than the length of the waiting list.

    There could be a scenario where people in another region don't stay on the waiting list and go private, where people in the south east might be more likely to wait - just another possible angle.

    I wasn't a kid today or yesterday so it's not a new problem definitely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭ Deise Vu


    hardybuck wrote: »
    Yeah I was wondering if they were able to state how many people got treatment in the region it might be a better indicator than the length of the waiting list.

    There could be a scenario where people in another region don't stay on the waiting list and go private, where people in the south east might be more likely to wait - just another possible angle.

    I wasn't a kid today or yesterday so it's not a new problem definitely.

    So people in other regions don't mind paying €4K even though the waiting list for free treatment in their area is minimal but people in the South East stick it out to the bitter end for free treatment even though the wait is years longer? Don't tell any Economists that theory, they like to think people in large sample sizes behave in rational and predictably similar patterns.

    Just to reiterate, in the SE you are 20 times more likely to be on a waiting list than in Wicklow / South Dublin. That would be some statistical anomaly alright if it was down to the different attitudes of people in the SE versus their far off, distant cousins in Wicklow. Or maybe their teeth are just better?

    Incidentally, before you jump in with the different standards of care in private versus public to explain why our richer cousins go private, the orthodontists in UHW all have private practices. I presume it is the same everywhere else also. When I bring junior private, it will most likely be the same guy who is treating my older eldest in UHW (he seems a sound lad).

    I'm afraid the cause of the disparity is the usual predictable and grim reason. When HSE budgets are cut, or not increased enough, management see it as their job to cut back where the least resistance will be met. Also, as usual, the SE is the one that gets it in the neck because our representatives are asleep at the wheel (or on a permanent jolly in the States).


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    So people in other regions don't mind paying €4K even though the waiting list for free treatment in their area is minimal but people in the South East stick it out to the bitter end for free treatment even though the wait is years longer? Don't tell any Economists that theory, they like to think people in large sample sizes behave in rational and predictably similar patterns.

    Just to reiterate, in the SE you are 20 times more likely to be on a waiting list than in Wicklow / South Dublin. That would be some statistical anomaly alright if it was down to the different attitudes of people in the SE versus their far off, distant cousins in Wicklow. Or maybe their teeth are just better?

    Incidentally, before you jump in with the different standards of care in private versus public to explain why our richer cousins go private, the orthodontists in UHW all have private practices. I presume it is the same everywhere else also. When I bring junior private, it will most likely be the same guy who is treating my older eldest in UHW (he seems a sound lad).

    I'm afraid the cause of the disparity is the usual predictable and grim reason. When HSE budgets are cut, or not increased enough, management see it as their job to cut back where the least resistance will be met. Also, as usual, the SE is the one that gets it in the neck because our representatives are asleep at the wheel (or on a permanent jolly in the States).

    It could be a number of factors - that's why it might benefit from some further commentary or analysis.

    From my experience, I'm confident I got better treatment going private, going on one or two of my friends who went public around the same time.

    Also you should read this scandal which RTE uncovered a few weeks ago. Due to funding cuts in the late 90s thousands of children in the Dublin/Mid Leinster area were left stranded mid-treatment, some of whom suffered permanent damage. I'd go private if I could afford it at all: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0402/1040293-dental-orthodontics/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭ Deise Vu


    hardybuck wrote: »
    It could be a number of factors - that's why it might benefit from some further commentary or analysis.

    From my experience, I'm confident I got better treatment going private, going on one or two of my friends who went public around the same time.

    Also you should read this scandal which RTE uncovered a few weeks ago. Due to funding cuts in the late 90s thousands of children in the Dublin/Mid Leinster area were left stranded mid-treatment, some of whom suffered permanent damage. I'd go private if I could afford it at all: https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0402/1040293-dental-orthodontics/

    OK, I get it. Even when presented with the facts that you are 20 times more likely to be on a waiting list in the SE than Wicklow, you have no cause for concern, everything is rosy in the garden.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    OK, I get it. Even when presented with the facts that you are 20 times more likely to be on a waiting list in the SE than Wicklow, you have no cause for concern, everything is rosy in the garden.

    No I'm just trying to figure out why. I'm not disputing your information. You've presented me with some facts, there could be others - but again I'm not trying to discredit you.

    If you're taking that line, you're also ignoring that the HSE have an appalling record in this area going back decades - in the Dublin and Leinster area they had that awful scandal. Galway/Mayo/Roscommon have 18,500 waiting, nearly as many as the Community 2 area which covers Waterford, Carlow, Kilkenny, Wexford and South Tipp region.

    There must be something causing the massive variances which exist. The HSE alluded to recruitment problems, and mentioned that 4 regions had new dentists appointed last year - I wonder was this one of the major reasons behind the issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭ Bards


    Why are you defending the indefensible... Same as the airport... What's your agenda... You obviously don't have Waterford at heart and yet here you are on the Waterford City forum Thread upon Thread.. I just don't get it


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Bards wrote: »
    Why are you defending the indefensible... Same as the airport... What's your agenda... You obviously don't have Waterford at heart and yet here you are on the Waterford City forum Thread upon Thread.. I just don't get it

    I think it's awful, but I don't recall defending it. I was definitely trying to understand it.

    It was the same when I needed braces as a kid.

    I can see you don't get it.


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