How is an EV better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR?

Scoondal

I think I will stick with my 1.6 diesel. Low CO2 and NOx emmissions are treated by my EGR. This technology exists on my 10 year old car. ( Cork to Dublin and return for €34 ).

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

The electric car industry is still in its infancy and acts like it is an infant too. Common sense is the only way forward to lessen climate change and give an environmentally sustainable mass transport system for the future.

(Edit : NCT record my emmissions always as 0 on my report)
(Edit 2 : Next NCT on 20 May, 447000 kms on clock ... let's see what they say )

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

I think I will stick with my 1.6 diesel. Low CO2 and NOx emmissions are treated by my EGR. This technology exists on my 10 year old car. ( Cork to Dublin and return for €34 ).

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

The electric car industry is still in its infancy and acts like it is an infant too. Common sense is the only way forward to lessen climate change and give an environmentally sustainable mass transport system for the future.

(Edit : NCT record my emmissions always as 0 on my report)
(Edit 2 : Next NCT on 20 May, 447000 kms on clock ... let's see what they say )

We are all noobs here and didn't realise that you can drive an old diesel on long trips. Cheers for the tip and good to hear that yours is a true zero emissions vehicle also as shown by the NCT. Where did we all go wrong? The final nail to the coffin is that 0 pc renewable power generation in Ireland.

Good luck with the NCT. Hopefully your car passes as it was not chocked to death on the school run like so many other diesels in Ireland.

KCross

Scoondal wrote: »

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

You need to do some more research on the environmental controls on your diesel car before you repeat that statement again.... #dieselgate.

unkel

Scoondal wrote: »

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels

I charged my car up to 100% yesterday from the solar panels on my roof

Most electric cars in Ireland are charged at night at cheap and mostly environmentally friendly electricity. Powered up to 75% by wind energy. This figure is increasing every year.

slave1

Scoondal wrote: »

..The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines..

And these burning of fossil fuels (exact same as your and my diesel) are abated at source away from populous whereas your (and my) diesel emission are on the road right beside passing pedestrians and general population where they do considerable more harm.


I was going to include your zero emission NCT piece but if you think that then carry on

Scoondal

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

KCross

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

Maybe start a new thread. Emissions havent much to do with charging points being hogged.

NIMAN

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

I'll veer off tangent for a second and answer.

I'd say that if you were to keep your old 2010 diesel until it dies, rather than buying a new EV, so in effect you are stopping one being made, then you are likely kinder to the environment. An EV still has a massive footprint to the environment to get made.

But if you are talking about how a 2010 diesel v say a 2014 EV, then the diesel is putting out a lot of particulates, with or without DPFs, and is dirtier than the EV, especially round city centres where there are a lot of cars in a relatively small area.

Why do you think major cities are banning diesels?

Patser

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

I'm not 100% teched up on the figures but:

EV motors are more efficient than using their 'fuel' than any petrol/diesel. Which makes sense, since there's no waste energy from burning fuel like heat etc. So say for every unit of potential power you put into a car, EVs will use I think 55% of their fuel, diesel down in low 30s and petrol in 20s

Also the supply of diesel and petrol itself is more wasteful - involving refining, transport, storage etc. Whereas the infrastructure for electricity is already there in form a cables.

Add in that increasingly electricity is becoming greener and greener with wind, solar, hydro etc. The old argument of my diesel emissions = the power plant that powers your EV is waning.

Finally while engines are theoretically recyclable for their parts, old EV battery packs are being used to build storage units at power plants. So even after car is dead and gone, there is future use possible.

Now moving on from all the environmental impact stuff, the reason I went EV is mostly how sweet they are to drive - lack of noise, no gear change, smooth acceleration, cheaper maintenance and costs, spacious cabin, ability of my small, tall car to leave most for dead influenced me far more than saving any polar bears. Polar bears are pricks anyway.

Blueshoe

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

One bonus with the diesel is when it needs fuel you can be in and gone in 10 mins. Unlike ecars which judging by this thread is a daily stressful battle just to find somewhere with a free or functioning charge point.

It all sounds too stressful and time consuming. I'd stick with the diesel for now. Until things improve at least

Patser

One bonus with EV is never having to go to petrol station, just plug it in at home like your mobile phone and have it full when you walk out.

Also added bonus is that if you do need a public charger its free, and a CCS charger will give my car about 40% range in same 10 minutes others are queuing to pay in station.

fricatus

Blueshoe wrote: »

One bonus with the diesel is when it needs fuel you can be in and gone in 10 mins. Unlike ecars which judging by this thread is a daily stressful battle just to find somewhere with a free or functioning charge point.

It all sounds too stressful and time consuming. I'd stick with the diesel for now. Until things improve at least

That’s not the case at all... my Hyundai Ioniq has a range of about 200 km. This covers my commute with 40-50% left over and then I have 70-80 km to cover any driving I need to do after work. When I’m off or it’s the weekend, a single charge covers all the driving I do for days.

I don’t even waste 10 minutes driving to a pump. I just plug in at the end of the day and unplug in the morning (and the car is preheated).

The only time I use the public network is on long journeys. Normally I just plug in at a slow charger in Thurles, Limerick city, Bray, etc., wherever I am, and as long as I’m there for 3-4 hours, the car will be back to 100% by the time I’m leaving. Very occasionally I’ll have to use a fast charger, and occasionally they’re in use, but a bit of forward planning allows me to either wait it out or go on to the next one.

That’s the one rare downside, which I only face about four or five times a year. The upside on the other hand is a daily commute costing €1.60 as opposed to €8 in my old diesel Accord, plus very cheap tax and servicing. The car is nicer and more relaxing to drive, and it doesn’t cause noise or pollute my city.

People on here (rightly) give out a lot about public chargers and the people who abuse them, so you’d be forgiven for thinking it’s a daily battle. However if you charge at home or work, and your daily mileage is within range, it’s simply not a serious problem. People happily charging at home every night don’t post ranty threads about it!

Twenty Grand

Patser wrote: »

I'm not 100% teched up on the figures but:

EV motors are more efficient than using their 'fuel' than any petrol/diesel. Which makes sense, since there's no waste energy from burning fuel like heat etc. So say for every unit of potential power you put into a car, EVs will use I think 55% of their fuel, diesel down in low 30s and petrol in 20s
.

I'd imagine your 55% is quite low.
Purely driving, the electric motors are up at 80 and 90s efficiency. When you factor in motorway speeds, AC etc, the amount of battery thats consumed purely moving the car drops a bit, bit is still above 60

jusmeig

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

Ill give u the benefit of the doubt and assume u are not trolling. An EV is the only vehicle that gets consistently greener over its life, this is a key point that FUD articles tiptoe around. As our grid improves...so does the impact of driving an EV.

Our grid is improving daily.
25 days burn zero coal...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-goes-25-days-without-using-coal-to-generate-electricity-1.3888166%3fmode=amp

In terms of the raw energy an ICE car puts about 17 to 25% of the power stored in fossil fuels into the wheels. You will likely call bs on this, but then you will Google it and find out it's true. ICE never has been efficient. An EV will put 85 to 90% of the energy stored in the battery into the wheels. So EVs are 3 to 4 times more efficient. They use less energy to go the same distance.

If you want to do the rare Earth metals and children mining lithium we can do that next also.

biko

KCross wrote: »

Maybe start a new thread. Emissions havent much to do with charging points being hogged.

Moved to own thread as this have nothing to do with charge points.

Patser

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I'd imagine your 55% is quite low.
Purely driving, the electric motors are up at 80 and 90s efficiency. When you factor in motorway speeds, AC etc, the amount of battery thats consumed purely moving the car drops a bit, bit is still above 60

I was just guessing from memory, and being conservative so as not to be called out for bluffing.

I see Justmeig giving more accurate figures as well, so reinforcing how efficient the engines are just on their own merit, let alone in terms of emissions, relative required infrastructure etc

ted1

unkel wrote: »

I charged my car up to 100% yesterday from the solar panels on my roof

Most electric cars in Ireland are charged at night at cheap and mostly environmentally friendly electricity. Powered up to 75% by wind energy. This figure is increasing every year.

Acfually night time is the worse time to charge KG of CO/KWH are at the highest due to baseload plants

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

Acfually night time is the worse time to charge KG of CO/KWH are at the highest due to baseload plants

Its only a small difference, not worth considering really...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103042278&postcount=102

ted1

KCross wrote: »

Its only a small difference, not worth considering really...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=103042278&postcount=102

I’ve done the figures for 24 months, the way own seasons work picking 1 month doesn’t work. it’s a good bit different around 10% can’t remember the exact figure but contradicts the post I was replying to

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve done the figures for 24 months, the way own seasons work picking 1 month doesn’t work. it’s a good bit different around 10% can’t remember the exact figure but contradicts the post I was replying to

I have the raw data for that time period, I’ll do a more comprehensive comparison over the last year and see what falls out. Thanks

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

Cork to Dublin and return for €34

Are you getting towed down and driving back?


I drove a 1.6 diesel and it was cheap and cheerful, but it wasn't 8 hours of driving for €35 cheap.

Anteayer

Just looking at the fuel mix this month for Republic of Ireland only:

Natural Gas : 60.34%
Renewables : 25.79%
Other: 12.52% (Peat, Combined Heat and Power (CHP), Aggregated Generating Units (AGUs), Demand Side Units (DSUs), Distillate and Waste.)
Interconnector imports: 1.35%
Coal: Zero.

On the fossil fuel side, you're mostly talking about natural gas which burns almost totally to CO2 and water vapour. There's no noxious emissions just a climate change impact.

Moneypoint being off line has a huge impact on CO2 emissions and more so on other emissions associated with coal burning: https://greennews.ie/moneypoint-shutdown-emissions-down-2018/

KCross

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve done the figures for 24 months, the way own seasons work picking 1 month doesn’t work. it’s a good bit different around 10% can’t remember the exact figure but contradicts the post I was replying to

Are you sure of your numbers?

I ran the numbers from July 2018 upto now and the figures I got were as per my previous post where there is only about 3% diff between day and night.

Average gCO2 between 0-6am is 313
Average gCO2 for pretty much every other time period is 301

Thats about a 4% difference... which is largely irrelevant.

I cant see how you got 10%.


EDIT: I always charge from 4-8 and the figure for that is 309. For 8am or later its 302 so a 2% difference.

Shefwedfan

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

I think if you want respect then you threat people with respect.

You have provided no information on your driving requirements. Do you drive much long distance? or mostly short distance etc?

Some people should still have diesels based on requirements....if you could provide that you would get some more help

Also Cork to Dublin/Dublin to Cork. About 260km. So lets say 500km return.

I very much doubt your car is close to 35 euro return from Dublin to Cork, stick on another ten and you are close to it.

unkel

€35 is about right in a modern frugal diesel if you drive gently (and not at 120km/h)

My own car would cost about €5 in electricity driven in the same way. Diesel is 600% more expensive...

Shefwedfan

unkel wrote: »

€35 is about right in a modern frugal diesel if you drive gently (and not at 120km/h)

My own car would cost about €5 in electricity driven in the same way. Diesel is 600% more expensive...

Car is 2010 so older diesel generations

If your driving Dublin to cork your not going to slow coach it if you don’t have to.....I have driven many diesel on that road....A6 was best running at 6ltr per 100km....6.x

Scottie99

https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4

Dardania

Scoondal wrote: »

How is an E.V. better for the environment than a 2010 1.6 diesel with EGR ?
Looking for real answers this time and not "smart alekey" responses like 2 days ago. I am trying to weigh up pros and cons. Thanks in advance for a little respect.

Interesting article on the topic, that aligns with the efficiency figures mentioned earlier in the thread: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-15/electric-vehicles-are-overwhelmingly-more-energy-efficient

No sign of OP since this?

Shefwedfan

Scottie99 wrote: »

https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4

Very good video

jusmeig

I find it completely ridiculous that we still have to justify the merits of EVs. Sometimes I feel like the questions asked are bordering on flat Earth levels of nonsense.

Twenty Grand

Climate change deniers are the new flat earthers.

highdef

unkel wrote: »

I charged my car up to 100% yesterday from the solar panels on my roof.

Just to clarify, before you started charging your car to 100% using power from your solar panels, what percentage of battery was remaining in your car?

unkel

highdef wrote: »

Just to clarify, before you started charging your car to 100% using power from your solar panels, what percentage of battery was remaining in your car?

It was actually quite high to start with, about 80%

It was the first time I tried charging the car from my PV. I'm experimenting. With my EV charging station and with my granny cable. There are EV charging stations out there that can send all the excess solar PV to your car automatically. If I had one, it could probably provide the majority of my charging. But they are quite expensive and I have decided not to buy one.

On the plus side, I hit one megawatt hour produced from my solar PV since my current system was installed in February. Expected annual production of about 4MWh. To put this into context, the average Irish household consumes 3.5MWh per year. Fairly easy between wind and solar to get this country to 100% renewable electricity within the next few years.

unkel

And to add to that, my EV (doing average Irish mileage) uses about 2MWh per year

If I was allowed, I would also plaster the other side of my roof (standard Irish small 3 bed semi) with about 5kwp of solar. It is north facing, but it would still produce about 2.5MWh per year. In other words, I would produce a lot more solar electricity per year than I would use, including my EV usage

Mickeroo

unkel wrote: »

And to add to that, my EV (doing average Irish mileage) uses about 2MWh per year

If I was allowed, I would also plaster the other side of my roof (standard Irish small 3 bed semi) with about 5kwp of solar. It is north facing, but it would still produce about 2.5MWh per year. In other words, I would produce a lot more solar electricity per year than I would use, including my EV usage

Those are impressive numbers, how much of that would be going back to the grid?

I'd assume the majority of that production would be on sunny days so your battery/hot water etc would only take a little of the excess overall and in winter you wouldn't be producing enough to exceed your daily needs most of the time?

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Fairly easy between wind and solar to get this country to 100% renewable electricity within the next few years.

Arent you simplifying that a bit much to say its "fairly easy"? Its far from it really.

Lets say we all have Solar panels... that doesnt magically mean the country is now 100% renewable as there would be masses of excess electricity at one time of the day and nothing for the rest of the day!

You still need the fossil plants to fire when the wind isnt blowing and sun isnt shining... which is quite often.

To get to 100% you need storage and thats not easy at all.

Gumbo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Those are impressive numbers, how much of that would be going back to the grid?

I'd assume the majority of that production would be on sunny days so your battery/hot water etc would only take a little of the excess overall and in winter you wouldn't be producing enough to exceed your daily needs most of the time?

I’ve generated 4.7MWh in the 18 months I have mine. I’ve no idea how to work out how much goes back to the grid. I must look into it.

But I havent switched my gas boiler on in over a month now. My hot water needs are met by diverting excess to my immersion. Yesterday for example, I had the hob and the oven on, but I was only pulling 300w from the grid.

So no, it doesnt provide all your needs all the time, but it does greatly reduce what you pull from the grid.

I will start logging it if I get a chance.
My app tells me what I’ve produced.
The divertor tells me what I’ve sent to the immersion, but there’s no way to know what got used as baseload or sent back to grid that I can see.

I probably need some other piece of hardware.

slave1

unkel wrote: »

And to add to that, my EV (doing average Irish mileage) uses about 2MWh per year

If I was allowed, I would also plaster the other side of my roof (standard Irish small 3 bed semi) with about 5kwp of solar. It is north facing, but it would still produce about 2.5MWh per year. In other words, I would produce a lot more solar electricity per year than I would use, including my EV usage

Surely it's just planning permission so you are allowed?
Would you even need planning if it's on the back of the house?

highdef

slave1 wrote: »

Surely it's just planning permission so you are allowed?
Would you even need planning if it's on the back of the house?

I could be wrong but I think permission would need to be given by a certain co-dweller of the house :P

Gumbo

slave1 wrote: »

Surely it's just planning permission so you are allowed?

Yes, planning is the restriction. I've yet to test the planning system with a large array. Any calls I get asking about planning applications, once I tell them the full process needs to be applied for, they end up just installing and worrying about Planning a later day, if it comes to that.

slave1 wrote: »

Would you even need planning if it's on the back of the house?

The specific Solar array Planning exemption is for all of the roof surface area, so front and back combined. You cant plaster the rear in a full array and be Planning Compliant currently.

Dardania

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Climate change deniers are the new flat earthers.

They are a bit, but we need to be a bit more encompassing of them.
They are being told that everything they've done all their life is not only wrong, but also damaging the environment. To many people, this is a shock.
It's like the 5 stages of grief - some of them get stuck in the 1st stage, Denial.
https://www.google.com/search?q=5+stages+of+grief&rlz=1C1GGRV_enFI748FI748&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=d5ckfCSUCnd8CM%253A%252C4aC-nivdkZLkcM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRsTpGlT8rJ86c51oh3au7MW9s0OQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM8-uA8KniAhUnwMQBHbF5C8kQ9QEwAHoECAwQBg#imgrc=d5ckfCSUCnd8CM:

Our job, as more knowledgeable in this area, is to help guide them to Acceptance. It'll take compassion, not ridicule or superiority.

KCross

Dardania wrote: »

They are a bit, but we need to be a bit more encompassing of them.

Our job, as more knowledgeable in this area, is to help guide them to Acceptance. It'll take compassion, not ridicule or superiority.

I feel you've just patted every ICE driver on the head and said "there there, it'll be alright!"

I know you dont mean to be condescending but I'm sure alot of them will say you are.

Personally I dont think we can guide that many of them. Its like addiction, they have to recognise it for themselves and then they can get the help they need!

I guess if someone has come to the forum and is asking questions they are already along that path but the guy who says "EV's are a fad" or "diesel till I die" there isnt much you can do there other than let them at it.... taxation will be the only thing that changes them, if at all.

ainsyjnr

don't forget you have to search for the oil, drill it, refine it and transport it. thats even before you burn it.

it uses so much electricity to process there are oil fields in the US who now use solar energy for their electricity... because it is cheaper. cleaner diesel!

jusmeig

unkel wrote: »

And to add to that, my EV (doing average Irish mileage) uses about 2MWh per year

If I was allowed, I would also plaster the other side of my roof (standard Irish small 3 bed semi) with about 5kwp of solar. It is north facing, but it would still produce about 2.5MWh per year. In other words, I would produce a lot more solar electricity per year than I would use, including my EV usage

In the same boat.
I have added a large south facing log cabin to my back garden.
The back is just long enough to clear the shadow of the house.
I've had it wired for PV and i'm hoping to go from 1.85kw array to 4kw.
Will need to get planning to put 10 panels on this.

zilog_jones

Scoondal wrote: »

I think I will stick with my 1.6 diesel. Low CO2 and NOx emmissions are treated by my EGR. This technology exists on my 10 year old car. ( Cork to Dublin and return for €34 ).

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

The electric car industry is still in its infancy and acts like it is an infant too. Common sense is the only way forward to lessen climate change and give an environmentally sustainable mass transport system for the future.

(Edit : NCT record my emmissions always as 0 on my report)
(Edit 2 : Next NCT on 20 May, 447000 kms on clock ... let's see what they say )

The NCT doesn't test for CO2, NOx or harmful microscopic particulates (pm10 and smaller) - they only do a very crude "smoke" test to verify the car isn't completely banjaxed.

You have no idea how much emissions your car is producing, and it has been proven that modern diesels during normal driving output multiples in excess of what they claim in the flawed testing cycle. And that's happening in local populated areas.

Most fossil fuels burned in Ireland for power generation are natural gas, which is a hell of a lot cleaner than diesel. We're progressively moving away from coal and peat. Treating emissions at a large scale (e.g. power generation) is much more effective and much more tightly scrutinised than many individual cars which are barely tested at all.

listermint

Scoondal wrote: »

I think I will stick with my 1.6 diesel. Low CO2 and NOx emmissions are treated by my EGR. This technology exists on my 10 year old car. ( Cork to Dublin and return for €34 ).

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

The electric car industry is still in its infancy and acts like it is an infant too. Common sense is the only way forward to lessen climate change and give an environmentally sustainable mass transport system for the future.

(Edit : NCT record my emmissions always as 0 on my report)
(Edit 2 : Next NCT on 20 May, 447000 kms on clock ... let's see what they say )

My car has all that. But it's an awful yolk.

You can't with a straight face say that you'd have no problems turning your car on getting it up the temp and standing behind he tail exhaust for ten minutes.


Disgusting yolk , I hate it. But thanks to government policy here it's what I need for the distance I do. Why petrol and diesel is not equalised on the pumps is beyond me.

KildareMan

Scoondal wrote: »

I think I will stick with my 1.6 diesel. Low CO2 and NOx emmissions are treated by my EGR. This technology exists on my 10 year old car. ( Cork to Dublin and return for €34 ).

The electric cars in Ireland run off electricity created mostly by burning fossil fuels with less environmental controls than car engines.

The electric car industry is still in its infancy and acts like it is an infant too. Common sense is the only way forward to lessen climate change and give an environmentally sustainable mass transport system for the future.

(Edit : NCT record my emmissions always as 0 on my report)
(Edit 2 : Next NCT on 20 May, 447000 kms on clock ... let's see what they say )

They are Zero because of age of your car. They are not measured.

Hurrache

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you getting towed down and driving back?


I drove a 1.6 diesel and it was cheap and cheerful, but it wasn't 8 hours of driving for €35 cheap.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Also Cork to Dublin/Dublin to Cork. About 260km. So lets say 500km return.

I very much doubt your car is close to 35 euro return from Dublin to Cork, stick on another ten and you are close to it.

I've a 2010 1.5 diesel, on journeys like the OP mentioned I'll easily get over 800km for €50. Dublin to Cork and back is just over 500km, it's very easily done.

I want to get rid of mine though for environmental reasons, but I don't see it being economical to do so as it's in excellent condition without any issues, and low mileage. My wife too has a 2 litre diesel which is ageing more than mine and we discussed getting rid of both.

The plan may be to get one electric, and one hybrid, as we regularly do long journeys and an electric won't fit both our needs. I said I'd never change from an estate for the boot space, but it might be a sacrifice I can make this time around.

highdef

Hurrache wrote: »

I've a 2010 1.5 diesel, on journeys like the OP mentioned I'll easily get over 800km for €50. Dublin to Cork and back is just over 500km, it's very easily done.

I don't measure fuel in monetary terms as it's constantly variable over time and differs from place to place. Measuring via litres used will always give the same result. I usually get a little over 1,000km from 50 litres which ties in well with the average fuel consumption displayed on the trip computer.

How many l/100km do you achieve on your Dublin to Cork return trip? I consistently average 4.7 l/100km on average in my 1.5 diesel car, according to the average fuel consumption on the trip computer, based on all the types of driving that I do. I sometimes get down to 4.6 l/100km during the summer months when traffic is lighter and moving more consistently. I normally use between 49 and 52 litres of fuel when filling. I tend to round off the amount to the nearest full litre (unless it comes beyond the brim) and I don't pay attention to the corresponding price.

Hurrache

highdef wrote: »

I don't measure fuel in monetary terms as it's constantly variable over time and differs from place to place. Measuring via litres used will always give the same result. I usually get a little over 1,000km from 50 litres which ties in well with the average fuel consumption displayed on the trip computer.

How many l/100km do you achieve on your Dublin to Cork return trip? I consistently average 4.7 l/100km on average in my 1.5 diesel car, according to the average fuel consumption on the trip computer, based on all the types of driving that I do. I sometimes get down to 4.6 l/100km during the summer months when traffic is lighter and moving more consistently. I normally use between 49 and 52 litres of fuel when filling. I tend to round off the amount to the nearest full litre (unless it comes beyond the brim) and I don't pay attention to the corresponding price.

I used to always fill the tank but just don't bother now, so usually stick €50 in it when the light has been on for a bit when I know I have a trip coming up.

I'll probably get near enough your figures if it's purely N or M (and I sit around 100kph) driving, probably close to 4.9/5 according to the trip computer with a bit of mixed driving in between.

However every day city driving would be closer to an average of 5.6 l/100km, back and forth from school etc, but a long drive thrown in will always reduce that.

To be honest I'm not that anal about the figures any more after having the car 9 years, but I do like to see the low consumption on a weekend away when out of traffic and I'm driving with a car full of kids and in no particular hurry to get anywhere.

So you can see my quandary of wanting to exchange a car that's not costing me much money which is likely not worth a whole lot as a trade in or in a private sale for no other reason than green reasons. I've screen scrappage deals offering more than it's probably worth but it would be an absolute crime to do that.

edit: I just checked carzone, cars of the same year are worth more than I expected, and mine would have a lower mileage than those that are there.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

To get to 100% you need storage and thats not easy at all.

Maybe I was presenting it a bit too much as an easy solution. You're right there is no easy solution, and it will require substantial investments. And indeed you need storage

But there are many different forms of storage. Old skool like Turlough hill (but then build one a thousand times bigger near the west coast), interconnectors with other countries that will have wind or sun when we don't, production of hydrogen with our surplus from renewables, V2G (once we have a substantial number of EVs) and pure grid attached battery storage (already very successful in Australia)