Estate Agent / Auctioneer games?

WhichCar

Hi All,

I'm bidding on a house for the past 4 weeks and each time I bid the auctioneer lets the underbidder take a week before coming back to me to say they've upped their bid. Am I just being impatient or is the auctioneer up to something? Surely the underbidder knows how much they're prepared to go up to and doesn't need to take a week in between each of their bid increases

Has anyone got any advice on this?

Thanks.

amcalester

It’s up to the seller whether to accept your offer or not, the auctioneer is doing their job by getting higher bids.

It does sound annoying but the auctioneer works for the seller, not you, and is trying to squeeze every penny out of you or the other bidder.

Maybe ask the auctioneer to ask the seller what it would take to take the house off the market.

mickuhaha

You can say that there is a time frame on your offer.

WhichCar

Thanks amcester. My bid is over the asking price already, so I suppose the vendor is just going to just wait and see how high it goes. Do you think it would be worth putting a time limit on my offer, or is the other bidder hoping I'll get frustrated and bow out?

WhichCar

Thanks mickuhaha. That's what I'm thinking at this stage. Is it just me or does a week between bids seem a bit ridiculous?

mickuhaha

Auctioneer I was dealing with tried to run it like that ,gave my final offer and said was on the table for a week then I am looking elsewhere . Rang up the last day and ask what the seller said. He then called and asked ( for the first time I suspect) and came back with a number which I accepted.

amcalester

WhichCar wrote: »

Thanks amcester. My bid is over the asking price already, so I suppose the vendor is just going to just wait and see how high it goes. Do you think it would be worth putting a time limit on my offer, or is the other bidder hoping I'll get frustrated and bow out?

Over the asking doesn’t really mean anything. The asking might have been 20% below their minimum price.

If they’re willing to wait a week between bids then I don’t think a time limit will work, they’re obviously not in a rush.

q85dw7osi4lebg

The auctioneer is literally paid for one thing, to get the highest possible price for their client. They can take as long as they want, as inconvenient as it may be.

Graham

WhichCar wrote: »

Is it just me or does a week between bids seem a bit ridiculous?

Not for the vendor if the offers keep going up and they're under no pressure for a quick sale.

That's pretty much the answer to the why, and the 'what are they up to'.

Would you accept a time limited offer if the offers on your house kept going up? You probably have a better idea of the demand for the property/area.

WhichCar

Oh congratulations - glad it all worked out for you!

I think I'll wait it out for now, but in the meantime, they're running the risk of me finding another house just as suitable elsewhere... If that happens, then I'll happily play the time limit card

Thanks again.

WhichCar

Fair point Graham

StoptheClocks

The owners might not be in a rush to sell. If they're in a chain, then they would be under pressure to sell in a time frame. They might have no where to move onto yet.
It's in the auctioneers interest to sell the house quick. They're probably getting 1% of sale price. So for every 1000 bid they make 10. The longer it drags out, the more they will have to show the house to people. More work not much of a reward.

Crusty Jocks

WhichCar wrote: »

Hi All,

I'm bidding on a house for the past 4 weeks and each time I bid the auctioneer lets the underbidder take a week before coming back to me to say they've upped their bid. Am I just being impatient or is the auctioneer up to something? Surely the underbidder knows how much they're prepared to go up to and doesn't need to take a week in between each of their bid increases

Has anyone got any advice on this?

Thanks.

It's all just a poker game, nobody knows whats going on in the background but it is the vendor/dealer that has control. For any property you should really just ask yourself what its worth and what you would be willing to pay for it. Forget about all the asking and bids. Try and retake control by saying you're done with x amount, which i would suggest is below what you are willing to pay particularly due to recent market trends.

If you feel you are being played, get a friend to enquire about a viewing and find out what kind of response agent gives, as in if its complete bollocks in terms of the information you've been given. If so maybe get them to subsequently lowball a bid and see what the response is.

It's not a great position to be in, who knows what they are at...dont get emotionally attached or involved to something when you are playing with tens of thousands.

just my tuppence worth.

WhichCar

Crusty Jocks wrote: »

..dont get emotionally attached or involved to something when you are playing with tens of thousands.

Great advice - thanks.

Re. retaking control, I'm at my maximum bid now, but the auctioneer doesn't know that

mickuhaha

Next offer you put in ask if the property is registered and are the sellers waiting on probate ie anything that would hold up the sale if your price was accepted. It's a question that would help mark the end of the sale process in the auctioneers mind.

mickuhaha

mickuhaha wrote: »

Next offer you put in ask if the property is registered and are the sellers waiting on probate ie anything that would hold up the sale if your price was accepted. It's a question that would help mark the end of the sale process in the auctioneers mind.

How?

If the vendor isn’t in a rush, (not sure what “registered” means) then they are willing to let the bidding play out. The fact that they are willing to wait means a time limit on an offer is useless.

Op if you are at the limit of your finance and the offer hasn’t been accepted, you have to look at other properties.

mickuhaha

Dav010 wrote: »

How?

If the vendor isn’t in a rush, (not sure what “registered” means) then they are willing to let the bidding play out. The fact that they are willing to wait means a time limit on an offer is useless.

Op if you are at the limit of your finance and the offer hasn’t been accepted, you have to look at other properties.

The op isn't dealing with the vendor the op is playing the game with the auctioneer. The vendor will either wait for the amount they believe they will get for the house or compromise on advice of the auctioneer. The op needs to convince the auctioneer that the biding is coming near an end and begin saying as much to the vendor. Registered property with land registry is the easiest and fastest way to transfer property title and would be for a fast purchase from sale agreed to sale date. As for the opposition they will either keep bidding until they run of of funds or until they think you will never stop biding above them but you have no control over that only the reaction of the auctioneer and when they think all parties have reached their max. You could bring your mortgage approval amount. And say that's it no more, no further. If you try all the banks you will have a variety of amounts to show off. You could chance asking if the opposition has their approval with the hope they don't. I am not telling the op what to do just info on the game afoot.

WhichCar

More excellent advice @mickuhaha. Do you mean registered with the land registry? Thanks

WhichCar

Thanks @Dav010 and @mickuhaha (didn't see your replies til after I asked if you meant the land registry). I appreciate both of your advice. I am still looking @Dav010, as I've been outbid before, but I agree with @mickuhaha too - hopefully having all my ducks in a row and showing the auctioneer I'm ready and know what I'm talking about, will make me the more attractive prospect.

Thanks again - fingers crossed

mickuhaha

WhichCar wrote: »

More excellent advice @mickuhaha. Do you mean registered with the land registry? Thanks

Yes check if it has a folio here

https://www.landdirect.ie/index

If it is registered on a folio cost €5 to see it ,only info in it is current owner and burden (like mortgage etc)

antoinolachtnai

WhichCar wrote: »

Thanks @Dav010 and @mickuhaha (didn't see your replies til after I asked if you meant the land registry). I appreciate both of your advice. I am still looking @Dav010, as I've been outbid before, but I agree with @mickuhaha too - hopefully having all my ducks in a row and showing the auctioneer I'm ready and know what I'm talking about, will make me the more attractive prospect.

Thanks again - fingers crossed

One thing is to remember that the auctioneer really wants this to end, maybe even more than you do. He doesn’t get any money until the sale actually closes. The difference an extra 5 grand will make to his commission is very small.

Wildly Boaring

Currently selling.

My advice is to put a time limit on your bid if it's your max.

Seller is also just a normal person trying to get money tor their house and worrying about every connotation therein.

We almost accepted asking price last week. Our EA reckoned there were more bids to come but bidder had a time limit of Friday at 5. Another bid came in at that stage but if not I would have happily taken it.

In my experience the EA is not the one giving a week for underbidder to return, the seller is. 10k more is worth 100 to 200 to EA and a ball more work.

Graham

How long would you allow bidding to continue if at the end of each week a new higher bid came in?

Wildly Boaring

Graham wrote: »

How long would you allow bidding to continue if at the end of each week a new higher bid came in?

We wanted asking. Now that we are gone past it we are closing Tuesday evening if no new bids.

Estate agent emailing all previous bidders last night and ringing all on Monday to let them know same.

I suppose it all depends on circumstances. Our EA has been grouping viewings. We had 4 on Wednesday and 3 yesterday. If no new viewings or interest you'd be mad to leave a bidder hanging once they have offered what you want/need

antoinolachtnai

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

We wanted asking. Now that we are gone past it we are closing Tuesday evening if no new bids.

Estate agent emailing all previous bidders last night and ringing all on Monday to let them know same.

I suppose it all depends on circumstances. Our EA has been grouping viewings. We had 4 on Wednesday and 3 yesterday. If no new viewings or interest you'd be mad to leave a bidder hanging once they have offered what you want/need

Sellers are not really rational animals. Mostly they are not professionals. They will behave in odd ways because there is a lot of sentiment. This is not just business, it is their whole life's savings quite often. You will never be able to predict what a seller will actually do pre-contract.

Graham

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

We wanted asking. Now that we are gone past it we are closing Tuesday evening if no new bids.

So you'll keep going if there are new bids.

It does sound like the OP is going through the counterpart of that process.

That's not meant to sounds like an accusation btw, it's exactly what I'd expect of any sensible vendor that is not under pressure.

Equally I'd agree you need to think carefully if you only have one bidder that has made a time limited offer.

Wildly Boaring

Graham wrote: »

So you'll keep going if there are new bids.

It does sound like the OP is going through the counterpart of that process.

That's not meant to sounds like an accusation btw, it's exactly what I'd expect of any sensible vendor that is not under pressure.

Equally I'd agree you need to think carefully if you only have one bidder that has made a time limited offer.

Yeah I really think the circumstances are going to dictate. ie The offer last night was 10k jump.

If bids were a week apart and 1k at a time I'd not be holding on for fear of losing a nice "quality" purchaser.

ning sudnaen

chances are they are fake bids. Property sales in ireland are corrupted and the PSRA know this and allow it to happen, and it is no good going to the media they are very good at keeping corruption a secret....I forgot to mention boards ie keep corruption a secret so this post will probably by deleted

ted1

ning sudnaen wrote: »

chances are they are fake bids. Property sales in ireland are corrupted and the PSRA know this and allow it to happen, and it is no good going to the media they are very good at keeping corruption a secret....I forgot to mention boards ie keep corruption a secret so this post will probably by deleted

What you make of them Chemtrails?

ning sudnaen

ning sudnaen wrote: »

chances are they are fake bids. Property sales in ireland are corrupted and the PSRA know this and allow it to happen, and it is no good going to the media they are very good at keeping corruption a secret....I forgot to mention boards ie keep corruption a secret so this post will probably by deleted

It would certainly help your cause if you could provide some evidence of fake bids and corruption. Otherwise they are uncorroborated allegations.

Graham

Mod Note

ning sudnaen, that's the 2nd time you've thrown about unsubstantiated allegations of corruption. Unless you have some sort of evidence relevant to the thread you are responding to, take it somewhere else.

Dolbhad

Dav010 wrote: »

It would certainly help your cause if you could provide some evidence of fake bids and corruption. Otherwise they are uncorroborated allegations.

When we were bidding on second hand houses anytime I confirmed a verbal bid, auctioneers always asked could I follow it up in writing by email or text so keep note of bids for their records. I asked why and they said it’s for their professional body so if anybody complained about fake bids, they had proof. So I do think in this climate the bids are real. Auctioneers won’t make much money on a few k. But I do think sellers can be unreasonable. But again everyone thinks their house is nicer than the one down the road who got x amount for it last year so by default theirs is worth more. And if a seller is buying another house they do need a certain price. However this low asking price to get interest annoys me. Be honest about what you want or your wasting time.

Claw Hammer

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

In my experience the EA is not the one giving a week for underbidder to return, the seller is. 10k more is worth 100 to 200 to EA and a ball more work.

The EA wants to sell your house but he also wants to get another potential sale after yous go through. A reputation for not getting full market value because of indifference is of no help.

WhichCar

Just to update on this. Still not accepted or declined by vendor and only one short return phone call from EA last week. This is not the way to treat people who are offering you €100s of thousands. Feel like pulling my offer altogether now

q85dw7osi4lebg

WhichCar wrote: »

Just to update on this. Still not accepted or declined by vendor and only one short return phone call from EA last week. This is not the way to treat people who are offering you €100s of thousands. Feel like pulling my offer altogether now

Pull it then, a guaranteed way to not get the property.

Stick a time limit on it if you are genuinely considering walking away. This is the biggest sale a person ever makes so its only natural to not rush things and to get the best price possible.

Dolbhad

WhichCar wrote: »

Just to update on this. Still not accepted or declined by vendor and only one short return phone call from EA last week. This is not the way to treat people who are offering you €100s of thousands. Feel like pulling my offer altogether now

Make sure you tell auctioneer you are withdrawing the bids placed. That means auctioneer can use that bid as the starting point next them. I find sellers are willing to hang around for higher offers at the moment than risk “settling” for a lower offer.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Dolbhad wrote: »

Make sure you tell auctioneer you are withdrawing the bids placed. That means auctioneer can use that bid as the starting point next them. I find sellers are willing to hang around for higher offers at the moment than risk “settling” for a lower offer.

Whilst you can withdraw a bid, the agent can still say that offer of X has previously been rejected, so there is no benefit to that really, other than to ruin relations with the agent.

WhichCar

I wouldn't call it rushing things, to expect an answer one way or another 2 and a half weeks after putting in a bid. And yes, if they're looking to wait for months, absolutely that's their prerogative, but just let me know so I can look elsewhere ...

WhichCar

WhichCar wrote: »

I wouldn't call it rushing things, to expect an answer one way or another 2 and a half weeks after putting in a bid. And yes, if they're looking to wait for months, absolutely that's their prerogative, but just let me know so I can look elsewhere ...

Why are you not looking elsewhere while bidding?.

If you have not been told that your bid has been accepted, it’s fair to assume it has not been accepted. No great mystery.

Dolbhad

Bryan Hundreds Farmyard wrote: »

Whilst you can withdraw a bid, the agent can still say that offer of X has previously been rejected, so there is no benefit to that really, other than to ruin relations with the agent.

They can say it was rejected but doesn’t stop you from putting in the same bid or lower again. Whereas leaving the bid there and not withdrawing it leaves leverage for sellers next time. I’ve done this and haven’t had issues bidding on a different house with auctioneer and it was out solicitor who told us to ensure we say it like that to bids aren’t used.

Dolbhad

Dolbhad wrote: »

They can say it was rejected but doesn’t stop you from putting in the same bid or lower again. Whereas leaving the bid there and not withdrawing it leaves leverage for sellers next time. I’ve done this and haven’t had issues bidding on a different house with auctioneer and it was out solicitor who told us to ensure we say it like that to bids aren’t used.

Did you solicitor explain how this prevents the EA from saying your bid for X amount wasn’t accepted to the next bidder? Your bid isn’t binding, it really makes no difference to the next bidder if you leave it there or withdraw it, it is still the highest bid that was offered, and not accepted.

Wildly Boaring

WhichCar wrote: »

Just to update on this. Still not accepted or declined by vendor and only one short return phone call from EA last week. This is not the way to treat people who are offering you €100s of thousands. Feel like pulling my offer altogether now

Update from a different vendor's side.

As per earlier posts we're selling.

We gave a couple weeks at start of process for more bids etc especially as we had plenty new viewers.

Once it settled to 2 bidders we actually agreed pretty quickly. The reason we agreed rather than draw it out was that one bidder put their money where their mouth is and paid for their engineer to come out and do his report. They followed this with a new offer and we accepted.

Dolbhad

Dav010 wrote: »

Did you solicitor explain how this prevents the EA from saying your bid for X amount wasn’t accepted to the next bidder? Your bid isn’t binding, it really makes no difference to the next bidder if you leave it there or withdraw it, it is still the highest bid that was offered, and not accepted.

Yes I understand that. Of course he can say the bid wasn’t accepted. But if I was bidding on a house and no other bids place at moment I would chance around the rejected bid rather than going in at a higher bid. Whereas if the bid was there you would have to go to a higher about.

Of course it depends on timing. If it is a week after offer is withdrawn sellers won’t accept but if it’s two months down the line they can be more likely to accept.

Claw Hammer

WhichCar wrote: »

I wouldn't call it rushing things, to expect an answer one way or another 2 and a half weeks after putting in a bid. And yes, if they're looking to wait for months, absolutely that's their prerogative, but just let me know so I can look elsewhere ...

You are not buying beans in a supermarket. You are negotiating for the purchase of a second hand house where it is normal that weeks and months pass at various stages. Most owners may have a price expectation and may well take quite some time to shift from it. people may well think a better offer will come when the weather change, the schools close/open etc. It can take some weeks of inactivity for people to adjust their expectations.

WhichCar

So I put a deadline on the bid (as I was genuinely prepared to back out and focus my attentions elsewhere). They accepted To be fair though, I haven't been playing games with them and have been prompt with my bidding. I guess it's largely down to how the auctioneer handled it, if there hadn't been radio silence from them the last few weeks, I might have been less frustrated.

WhichCar

Congrats Wildly_Boaring - best of luck with the sale and thanks for your reply

Wildly Boaring

WhichCar wrote: »

So I put a deadline on the bid (as I was genuinely prepared to back out and focus my attentions elsewhere). They accepted To be fair though, I haven't been playing games with them and have been prompt with my bidding. I guess it's largely down to how the auctioneer handled it, if there hadn't been radio silence from them the last few weeks, I might have been less frustrated.

Congrats.
Hopefully it all goes through.

Make sure you get an engineer in and be prepared to cut and run if there are major issues.