Quitting on bad terms?

iAmAThrow344

Hi, I was offered once-in a lifetime opportunity which would accelerate my career rapidly.
I accepted it and it's starting in 10 days.

At current employment place - My contract states I must provide 25 days notice which I cant do.

I talked to my manager and they don't seem to be okay with me leaving earlier, so I am wondering what are the consequences of breaching contract by just not showing up?

Should I warn them that I am simply not showing up or just go for it?

I don't suppose I have any other options here?

I know it's bad what I am doing but I am simply stuck in this limbo position, I either go for it by breaching contract or I lose out on both jobs and end up jobless and even unable to go on job seekers (as I wasn't made redundant)

GreeBo

Obvious question, why did you agree to start a job in 10 days when you are not available for 25 days?

Did you tell your new employer that you were available immediately? If so, why?

Also, why would you lose out on your current job? Have you actually resigned?

iAmAThrow344

GreeBo wrote: »

Obvious question, why did you agree to start a job in 10 days when you are not available for 25 days?

Did you tell your new employer that you were available immediately? If so, why?

Also, why would you lose out on your current job? Have you actually resigned?

I would lose on my current job because I already handed in notice, I am not going back on it as it will put me into crap position.

OMM 0000

I would be really honest with them.

Once in a lifetime opportunity, etc.

You're very sorry.

You're willing to put in a few hours a week, and on the weekend, for X weeks, to help finish up any work or help out.

Basically make it as hard as possible for them to be dicks.

It's incredibly unlikely they'd take legal action, unless you're the CEO or something like that.

o1s1n

Congratulations on the new job. That should be your main focus now.

There really is nothing your current employer can do if you leave early. I've been on the other side of this, managing a team where agents had a 1 month notice period - loads gave two weeks. All HR could do was to threaten to delay their P45. That's it.

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

The worst that could happen really is if it's a small industry and something spread by word of mouth, but I'd say that's rare enough. It seems like a big deal now, but once you are gone nobody will remember you didn't give full notice.

I had a similar thing happen in my last role, I gave 1 month and they wanted me to stay 3 (!) - not a chance.

iAmAThrow344

o1s1n wrote: »

Congratulations on the new job. That should be your main focus now.

There really is nothing your current employer can do if you leave early. I've been on the other side of this, managing a team where agents had a 1 month notice period - loads gave two weeks. All HR could do was to threaten to delay their P45. That's it.

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

The worst that could happen really is if it's a small industry and something spread by word of mouth, but I'd say that's rare enough. It seems like a big deal now, but once you are gone nobody will remember you didn't give full notice.

I had a similar thing happen in my last role, I gave 1 month and they wanted me to stay 3 (!) - not a chance.

So you just don't show up on the day you start new job? or do you warn them that you wont show up?

judeboy101

pull 5 week sicky at old job

o1s1n

iAmAThrow344 wrote: »

So you just don't show up on the day you start new job? or do you warn them that you wont show up?

Ah not at all, as a poster above mentioned, be totally honest and apologise. It's not going to be easy so it's best to be as nice as possible about it.

Tell them that due to a one in a lifetime opportunity, you can only give 10 days notice. They'll be angry and the last 10 days might not be pleasant, but just be nice and stick to your guns, reexplaining the issue and that it's not negotiable.

ebbsy

o1s1n wrote: »

Congratulations on the new job. That should be your main focus now.

There really is nothing your current employer can do if you leave early. I've been on the other side of this, managing a team where agents had a 1 month notice period - loads gave two weeks. All HR could do was to threaten to delay their P45. That's it.

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

The worst that could happen really is if it's a small industry and something spread by word of mouth, but I'd say that's rare enough. It seems like a big deal now, but once you are gone nobody will remember you didn't give full notice.

I had a similar thing happen in my last role, I gave 1 month and they wanted me to stay 3 (!) - not a chance.

Good points there.

They d'ont give out P45'S anymore. The leaving date is transmitted to Revenue via the payroll package.

Anyway the OP can just transfer all credits etc to his new job if they play siller buggers.

ziedth

o1s1n wrote: »

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

That is not strictly true and while you correct in that most places avoid it to be safe I have given allot of references over the years (Although it was company policy to not give them out and only give a letter to confirm they worked for the company but one question that seems to be asked is "Would you hire them again" saying no is generally all the info they need.


Having said all that, I wouldn't think twice about it OP. Your current employers wouldn't think twice about cutting your job if something went wrong. Make your apologies and say its regrettable, maybe offer to still pick up emails or whatever but that is all you can do. I wouldn't be giving them as references just to be sure.

iAmAThrow344

ziedth wrote: »

o1s1n wrote: »

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

/QUOTE]

That is not strictly true and while you correct in that most places avoid it to be safe I have given allot of references over the years (Although it was company policy to not give them out and only give a letter to confirm they worked for the company but one question that seems to be asked is "Would you hire them again" saying no is generally all the info they need.


Having said all that, I wouldn't think twice about it OP. Your current employers wouldn't think twice about cutting your job if something went wrong. Make your apologies and say its regrettable, maybe offer to still pick up emails or whatever but that is all you can do. I wouldn't be giving them as references just to be sure.

Yeah that's the thing, current company situation is dire, just yesterday we were told that we have 5 tenders coming up, if we get them we are okay for next year, if not - it's basically game over.

Recently (current) company laid off about 9 people, people came to work one day and out of blue manager came up to them, told them something and they got up and went home never to be seen again (I am still not sure how they got laid off so quickly without notice, maybe there was some confidential deal or so).

That's why I am on very thin ice here and that's why I said yes I can start in 10 days without giving it a 2nd thought.

Most likely in around December - we will all be laid off and assets/company will be sold off.

stargazer 68

iAmAThrow344 wrote: »

ziedth wrote: »

Most likely in around December - we will all be laid off and assets/company will be sold off.

In that case OP I wouldn't give it a second thought. Tell them your last working day is ..... and thank them for their support!

_Brian

You have to look out for yourself first.

If this is a good opportunity your right to taken it.

Be really up front and honest, tell them the last day you will be working and apologise in advance for not being able to work your full notice.

Don’t arse about during your notice period as some do, do your job keep your head down.

Obviously the big impact is a bad reference but you seem to be beyond needing that so less of a concern.

Good luck.

Diceicle

iAmAThrow344 wrote: »

ziedth wrote: »

Yeah that's the thing, current company situation is dire, just yesterday we were told that we have 5 tenders coming up, if we get them we are okay for next year, if not - it's basically game over.

Recently (current) company laid off about 9 people, people came to work one day and out of blue manager came up to them, told them something and they got up and went home never to be seen again (I am still not sure how they got laid off so quickly without notice, maybe there was some confidential deal or so).

That's why I am on very thin ice here and that's why I said yes I can start in 10 days without giving it a 2nd thought.

Most likely in around December - we will all be laid off and assets/company will be sold off.

If thats the case there may not be a company around to get a reference off.

Give your notice in, in writing, keep it short, thank them for the opportunity - the last line of the letter should be 'my last date of employment will be X"

TuringBot47

Diceicle wrote: »

If thats the case there may not be a company around to get a reference off.

And these days it works both ways.
The likes of GlassDoor has anonymous reviews of companies by employees.
So if they give a bad reference, you can turn around and give a bad review.

Hopefully the OP has looked up the new company reviews on Glassdoor first before signing.

tedpan

I thought the company was handing out Redundancies?

iAmAThrow344

tedpan wrote: »

I thought the company was handing out Redundancies?

Yes the redundancy by law (2 years) - everybody got it that was here for 2 years.
That still requires notice before getting laid off, no?

Anyway (not sure why you are trying to connect these two threads) - I found an escape now from that possible scenario which is the reason I asked in this thread.

Cmoy

How long are you working in your current job?. Legally a company can only enforce a notice period of 1 week per year worked which stops after 4 if this helps. I was advised this a few years back as I had a similar issue and as I only had worked there for 2 years legally I only had to give 2 weeks notice even though they wanted a months notice. This worked for me but I do stand to be corrected on this if not true.

PhoenixParker

iAmAThrow344 wrote: »

tedpan wrote: »

I thought the company was handing out Redundancies?

Yes the redundancy by law (2 years) - everybody got it that was here for 2 years.
That still requires notice before getting laid off, no?

Anyway (not sure why you are trying to connect these two threads) - I found an escape now from that possible scenario which is the reason I asked in this thread.

They can pay your notice period and tell you not to come into the office. It's standard practice in redundancy situations.

iAmAThrow344

Cmoy wrote: »

How long are you working in your current job?. Legally a company can only enforce a notice period of 1 week per year worked which stops after 4 if this helps. I was advised this a few years back as I had a similar issue and as I only had worked there for 2 years legally I only had to give 2 weeks notice even though they wanted a months notice. This worked for me but I do stand to be corrected on this if not true.

I've been there for 20 months.

.......

Just dont show up and start the new job.

This is a no brainer.

Cmoy

In this case I believe you are only required to give 2 weeks notice maximum(Legally) and they don't have a leg to stand on. I would double check this with citizens information to be sure.

tedpan

iAmAThrow344 wrote:

Anyway (not sure why you are trying to connect these two threads) - I found an escape now from that possible scenario which is the reason I asked in this thread.

You said that you were worried about your current company. If they're in trouble, why worry, just leave. Do you think they'd worry what happens to you when they let you go?

OMM 0000

Cmoy wrote: »

How long are you working in your current job?. Legally a company can only enforce a notice period of 1 week per year worked which stops after 4 if this helps.

This isn't true.

He has to give the notice period in his contract.

If no contract, he gives statutory minimum notice.

bucketybuck

iAmAThrow344 wrote: »

so I am wondering what are the consequences of breaching contract by just not showing up?

None. Effectively.

Let them be as upset as they want, there is nothing they can do about it. Do you think they are going to turn up at your new place, grab you by the ear and drag you back to your desk. They cannot force you to work for them or turn up in the morning.

They won't sue you for breach of contract. They cannot make you attend. They may withhold a reference but you already have a new job and its a dying company anyway so who cares. They may make you leave immediately instead, which is fine I imagine. They might be grumpy at you for 10 days, who gives a ****.

Tell them you will be finishing in 10 days and then start focusing on your new job.

pc7

Op I agree with the others, just state you will be finishing up x date, if they give you guff (which I doubt they will if they are likely closing down in 6 months time), suck it up for the few days and you are gone. If they close down you won't need a reference and can explain the lack of one to future employers very easily.

best of luck with the new position.

partyguinness

A few years back I was threatened with High Court injunctions and all sorts on the basis I was soliciting clients from my former employers in flagrant breach of my employment contract- I was but eff it I knew it was saber rattling and nothing with come of it which turned out to be the case. My new employer was enjoying it and sticking it to one of the competitors.

They held back my reference- didnt get one but I had been head hunted anyway and the ranty letter was enough of a reference so it was not an issue.

In reality despite all the huffing and puffing there is not a lot a employer can do and they will just have to suck it up.

But if I was you I would just make sure you are open and honest about it.

C3PO

....... wrote: »

Just dont show up and start the new job.

This is a no brainer.

I'd hate to have you working on my team!

As most people have suggested OP, thank them, apologise and tell them that you will be finishing up on whatever date you need to!

.......

C3PO wrote: »

I'd hate to have you working on my team!

As most people have suggested OP, thank them, apologise and tell them that you will be finishing up on whatever date you need to!

They already know!!

And he has only been there 20 months. And the company is in trouble.

Just go go go.

iAmAThrow344

Came to an agreement.

I can leave with 10 days notice + do bit of support in evenings to close off any projects I have outstanding (minimal job), I offered this as an option to them.

They also want to make counter offer with increase + ready to change my contract to state that I cannot be laid off without 4 months notice.

But I will still go ahead with new employment.

Jim2007

o1s1n wrote: »

There really is nothing your current employer can do if you leave early.

There is actually an awful an employer can do if they decide to. They could sue you for breach of contract naming your new employer in the case. Start a new job by having your new employer involved in a court case might now go down so well... of course it would get dismissed, but none the less your new employer might not be so excited about having to engage legal eagles. Not to mention publicity.

Never underestimate what a p**sed of person can do, especially if they are doing it with company money.

o1s1n wrote: »

Companies can't give out bad references as they won't risk it legally.

They don't have to give you a reference and they can make it very clear to a future employer what they think of you without giving a reference. Future employer telephones and gets told: "Based on legal advice I have been advised not to discuss Mr X's behaviour". See how quickly an offer gets pulled after hearing something like that.

When you don't know the people involved it is best not to assume anything.

partyguinness

Jim2007 wrote: »

There is actually an awful an employer can do if they decide to. They could sue you for breach of contract naming your new employer in the case. Start a new job by having your new employer involved in a court case might now go down so well... of course it would get dismissed, but none the less your new employer might not be so excited about having to engage legal eagles. Not to mention publicity.

Never underestimate what a p**sed of person can do, especially if they are doing it with company money.



They don't have to give you a reference and they can make it very clear to a future employer what they think of you without giving a reference. Future employer telephones and gets told: "Based on legal advice I have been advised not to discuss Mr X's behaviour". See how quickly an offer gets pulled after hearing something like that.

When you don't know the people involved it is best not to assume anything.

While technically that is true but the reality is I doubt very much the OP is the COO of Apple and his employer may be a pit pissed he ain't going to do anything. Unless you are a real big shot in some specialist area just not worth the time or effort and any employment lawyer will tell you the same.

Some new employers will take a pissed off former employer as a ringing endorsement- they are that pissed about him leaving then he must be good one.

bingbong500

Jim2007 wrote: »

There is actually an awful an employer can do if they decide to. They could sue you for breach of contract naming your new employer in the case. Start a new job by having your new employer involved in a court case might now go down so well... of course it would get dismissed, but none the less your new employer might not be so excited about having to engage legal eagles. Not to mention publicity.

Never underestimate what a p**sed of person can do, especially if they are doing it with company money.



They don't have to give you a reference and they can make it very clear to a future employer what they think of you without giving a reference. Future employer telephones and gets told: "Based on legal advice I have been advised not to discuss Mr X's behaviour". See how quickly an offer gets pulled after hearing something like that.

When you don't know the people involved it is best not to assume anything.

when has that ever happened though? Is there realistically any chance at all that a) a company would attempt to take a civil case for breach of contract against an employee of less than two years and b) even if they did such a bizarre thing, win anything at all?

No, is the answer. Not going to happen.

iAmAThrow344

It's crazy what old company is doing to try to keep me.
The contract amendment (So I require minimum of 3 months notice) and +20% increase.

I still wont stay though, I feel like if I was to take counter offer - I would be a marked target and first on the list for elimination.