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Applying for transfers in Civil Service?

  • 13-05-2019 3:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Hi,

    I've worked in the Civil Service (as an EO) for the last 5 years. I've tried to get promoted but don't seem to have enough relevant experience to move up. The role I'm currently in does not offer much range of tasks/responsibilities and doesn't have much opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. I have taken every option open to me to do so but it's still not enough.

    I'm thinking my best bet now would be to transfer to a completely different department to gain different experience so that I am better fixed for moving up later down the line.

    Does anyone have any experience with transferring to a different department? Is there anything I'm not aware of besides the Mobility scheme/head-to-head transfers that would result in gaining new experience?

    Thanks for any information you can provide.

    De Danann


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,893 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    De Danann wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've worked in the Civil Service (as an EO) for the last 5 years. I've tried to get promoted but don't seem to have enough relevant experience to move up. The role I'm currently in does not offer much range of tasks/responsibilities and doesn't have much opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. I have taken every option open to me to do so but it's still not enough.

    I'm thinking my best bet now would be to transfer to a completely different department to gain different experience so that I am better fixed for moving up later down the line.

    Does anyone have any experience with transferring to a different department? Is there anything I'm not aware of besides the Mobility scheme/head-to-head transfers that would result in gaining new experience?

    Thanks for any information you can provide.

    De Danann


    option 3: ask around. network a bit. know the roles you would or could fill and your skillset and keep an ear out.

    if a gig comes up and a HEO/AP knows of you and want you, and you're releasable, things can happen


  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭ eimaj18


    I think the union newsletter has a page dedicated to transfers - like a swap of a job. Haven't heard anything about them, so I don't know how successful they are, or how they work unfortunately.

    Look out for expressions of interest that come out too - they can give great experience, and open you up to other departments. Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭ phantasmagoria


    Have you thought about secondments that get advertised. I know of this as I am going on a career break and mine was open to all departments eventually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Have you thought about secondments that get advertised. I know of this as I am going on a career break and mine was open to all departments eventually.

    Where do these get advertised? I've heard vaguely about them and forgot they existed. What exactly do they comprise of, you just temporarily fill a different role to cover a colleague in another department?


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    eimaj18 wrote: »
    I think the union newsletter has a page dedicated to transfers - like a swap of a job. Haven't heard anything about them, so I don't know how successful they are, or how they work unfortunately.

    Look out for expressions of interest that come out too - they can give great experience, and open you up to other departments. Best of luck.

    What would be the difference between the transfers and the expressions of interest?

    Thanks :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,893 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    have you studied through work


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭ Cyclonius


    De Danann wrote: »
    Hi,

    I've worked in the Civil Service (as an EO) for the last 5 years. I've tried to get promoted but don't seem to have enough relevant experience to move up. The role I'm currently in does not offer much range of tasks/responsibilities and doesn't have much opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. I have taken every option open to me to do so but it's still not enough.

    I'm thinking my best bet now would be to transfer to a completely different department to gain different experience so that I am better fixed for moving up later down the line.

    Does anyone have any experience with transferring to a different department? Is there anything I'm not aware of besides the Mobility scheme/head-to-head transfers that would result in gaining new experience?

    Thanks for any information you can provide.

    De Danann

    Hi De Danann. Mobility isn't a head to head swap anymore. For CO and EO, they now alternate between the mobility list and Indepartmental competition list for Interdepartmental candidates when a vacancy arises (rotating between Internal, Interdepartmental, Open as appropriate). You can transfer to a new Depatment without having to go back to your original one after 12 months. Applications are made via PeoplePoint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Cyclonius wrote: »
    Hi De Danann. Mobility isn't a head to head swap anymore. For CO and EO, they now alternate between the mobility list and Indepartmental competition list for Interdepartmental candidates when a vacancy arises (rotating between Internal, Interdepartmental, Open as appropriate). You can transfer to a new Depatment without having to go back to your original one after 12 months. Applications are made via PeoplePoint.

    Thanks for letting me know, I did actually think it was still head to head swaps! Shows how in the know I am.

    I will get into contact with Peoplepoint and see if I'm eligible and get myself on a waiting list to transfer.

    I feel like I'm stagnating where I am and it seems the longer you are in one place the harder it is to get going somewhere new. I'm becoming part of the furniture now at this stage so I think it's time for a change!


  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭ phantasmagoria


    De Danann wrote: »
    Where do these get advertised? I've heard vaguely about them and forgot they existed. What exactly do they comprise of, you just temporarily fill a different role to cover a colleague in another department?

    You should receive an email into your inbox from the area that advertises them. I see them all the time. You temporarily fill a role for a period up to two years but realistically once you are there you probably end up staying there. The person returning from a career break is aware that his/her role will not be kept open and will be redeployed elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭ SomeSayKos


    De Danann wrote: »
    Where do these get advertised? I've heard vaguely about them and forgot they existed. What exactly do they comprise of, you just temporarily fill a different role to cover a colleague in another department?

    They usually go out as e-mails from your HR office. A secondment will usually last for 2 years, but i think there's the option to return to your parent department after 6 months if its not working out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭ Burgo


    Would it not be possible to move to a different section within your department?
    Have you gotten feedback as to what areas you are lacking the requried experience in?

    I know an EO in my section moved teams so that he would have more exposure to policies which was an area he fell down on for a HEO compitition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 Remind me


    Depending on department secondment opportunities might not be circulated


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Remind me wrote: »
    Depending on department secondment opportunities might not be circulated

    I've certainly never seen one in the five years I've been here so perhaps my department is one of those that don't circulate them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Burgo wrote: »
    Would it not be possible to move to a different section within your department?
    Have you gotten feedback as to what areas you are lacking the requried experience in?

    I know an EO in my section moved teams so that he would have more exposure to policies which was an area he fell down on for a HEO compitition.

    The issue is that EOs in my department (courts) tend to have a limited range of duties no matter which office/team they are on (usually Court Registrar duties) that don't extend to management type duties. The competency I always fall down on in promotion competitions is just that. Most managers/positions with manager-type responsibilities are HEO and AP level.

    I have actually moved between a few different offices within the courts during however my duties remained much the same in each. That's why I think it might be best for me to leave the courts altogether to broaden my experience.


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 Remind me


    De Danann wrote: »
    I've certainly never seen one in the five years I've been here so perhaps my department is one of those that don't circulate them.

    3 out of the 4 departments I’ve worked in don’t


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,974 ✭✭✭ 445279.ie


    De Danann wrote: »
    I've certainly never seen one in the five years I've been here so perhaps my department is one of those that don't circulate them.

    Have a looks at HR section of Courts Connect. They put them up there but do not email to say they are there.

    Check daily/weekly as they do not update them too often


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭ PhoenixParker


    De Danann wrote: »
    The issue is that EOs in my department (courts) tend to have a limited range of duties no matter which office/team they are on (usually Court Registrar duties) that don't extend to management type duties. The competency I always fall down on in promotion competitions is just that. Most managers/positions with manager-type responsibilities are HEO and AP level.

    I have actually moved between a few different offices within the courts during however my duties remained much the same in each. That's why I think it might be best for me to leave the courts altogether to broaden my experience.

    Courts is under justice so maybe contact justice HR and see if you’re potentially eligible and can be included on the mailing list. There are fairly regular opportunities for that kind of 2 year redeployment in justice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭ tringle


    Apply for mobility on Peoplepoint. Outside Dublin you can apply for 3 zones and any number of depts and locations within those zones. Within Dublin Im not sure. Look at the mobility map, it will show exactly how many EO positions are in each location. Once applied you will see where on the list you are for each location and hopefully move up the list. I also know of some who while in positions applied again through the open competitions hoping to get through and an offer of a different location.
    Best of luck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭ angel eyes 2012


    Courts is under justice so maybe contact justice HR and see if you’re potentially eligible and can be included on the mailing list. There are fairly regular opportunities for that kind of 2 year redeployment in justice.

    Both bodies run their internal competitions completely separately, I'm not sure if either body accept direct transfers (apart from union swaps) but it is always worth a try.

    Op, you should speak with your AP and see if there are any opportunities to serve on a project or committee. Offer to train new staff in an area you are familiar with, devise a training plan and proposal for the AP, seek views of others. Develop a skill matrix (another name for manual or procedure). All practical examples of managing and delivering results.

    Management doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have staff assigned to you formally -there are plenty of innovative ways to demonstrate the competency and in fact such examples can be more effective than "I led a team.. bla bla" - if delivered with confidence in an interview setting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭ De Danann


    Both bodies run their internal competitions completely separately, I'm not sure if either body accept direct transfers (apart from union swaps) but it is always worth a try.

    Op, you should speak with your AP and see if there are any opportunities to serve on a project or committee. Offer to train new staff in an area you are familiar with, devise a training plan and proposal for the AP, seek views of others. Develop a skill matrix (another name for manual or procedure). All practical examples of managing and delivering results.

    Management doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have staff assigned to you formally -there are plenty of innovative ways to demonstrate the competency and in fact such examples can be more effective than "I led a team.. bla bla" - if delivered with confidence in an interview setting.

    I did develop training manuals in several different positions I was in and have trained and managed staff at different levels in minor projects, however those examples I guess are not good enough for the shortlisting process in the competitions because I keep having my application form culled at shortlisting.

    My AP has done everything they can for me in my area and unfortunately staffing numbers are tight so there's not a lot of scope for me to take up extra projects or serve on a committee as I am constantly in court. During courts vacation I take up everything extra I can get my hands on but there are still limits unfortunately. I think what I really need is to move into a completely new department altogether before I start gathering cobwebs here.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭ angel eyes 2012


    De Danann wrote: »
    I did develop training manuals in several different positions I was in and have trained and managed staff at different levels in minor projects, however those examples I guess are not good enough for the shortlisting process in the competitions because I keep having my application form culled at shortlisting.

    My AP has done everything they can for me in my area and unfortunately staffing numbers are tight so there's not a lot of scope for me to take up extra projects or serve on a committee as I am constantly in court. During courts vacation I take up everything extra I can get my hands on but there are still limits unfortunately. I think what I really need is to move into a completely new department altogether before I start gathering cobwebs here.

    I wonder is your form really doing you justice. Instead of being too inward focused perhaps focus more on external stakeholders of the organisation and how you interact with them - bring it up a level don't just reference your immediate area. Have another AP or even PO look at it. Really demonstrate how you developed yourself and focus on specialist knowledge. By all means apply for a transfer, I transferred when I was bored silly in a particular department, I'm not one for sitting around clock watching. But make sure you give yourself every chance in any upcoming internal competitions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 Lilred66


    There are no secondments or expressions of interest since the Civil Service Mobility Scheme went live for COs and EOs.

    Try also to think of some outside of work experiences that you could manipulate into management and I agree get as many higher grades to look at it as possible. Look for feedback to see where you can improve the form.

    Also apply for mobility if you want to get experience in another department.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43 Bazman33


    I transferred to a new department but think I might of made the wrong choice, seams to be a lot of movement people leaving, there was a reason I left the other one but I think things are better there, can you transfer back or am I too late


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭ Nigel Fairservice


    If it was through mobility then I don't think there's a way of reversing the transfer. That's the official line anyway. Not sure what the unoffical line be would be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭ lucat


    Hi Bazman,

    How did you get on? Did you speak to HR?

    I'm the same boat. Really regretting my decision. I'm annoyed too because HR made no effort to put me in a role that's different from the one I left (even though they asked me what kind of role I wanted... maybe 3 times). My CV is suffering because my promotion prospects are suffering now. The transfer was a complete waste of time for me, I got no benefit and I'm angry.


    I'm thinking of speaking to HR in the Dept I've left to see if I can be transferred back. Has anyone done this before under the Mobility scheme? Would it work?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,595 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly




  • Registered Users Posts: 314 ✭✭ lucat




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