Average sum needed for a fixer upper

Sunrise_Sunset

Terraced house of approximately 109 sq m. Needs a complete overhaul; kitchen, plumbing, windows, electrical, insulation and re-plastering, electric shower in main bathroom, new flooring, redecorating.

North Wicklow area.

Average sum required?

Dtp1979

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Terraced house of approximately 109 sq m. Needs a complete overhaul; kitchen, plumbing, windows, electrical, insulation and re-plastering, electric shower in main bathroom, new flooring, redecorating.

North Wicklow area.

Average sum required?

You won’t get much change out of 40k

Mad_maxx

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You won’t get much change out of 40k

Not a hope of doing it for that

Fixer upper needs to be 100k cheaper minimum

Sunrise_Sunset

Also, how easy/difficult is it to hire people to do the job these days? I was reading various articles saying the price of renovations has increased, and labourers are quoting inflated prices as a deterrent as they prefer taking on bigger jobs instead of domestic jobs. Any truth to this?

dudara

When we bought our house, we got a similar quote, including a small extension to rear. Quote was €110k, so excluding the extension would leave about €60-70k.

For the sake of comparison, ours is a semi-d in Dublin, built 1920s with ~80 m^2.

Roisin76

Pity it's a terraced house, otherwise you could just bulldozer and rebuild. Similar cost and you'll get a brand new A rated modern home!

Sunrise_Sunset

Roisin76 wrote: »

Pity it's a terraced house, otherwise you could just bulldozer and rebuild. Similar cost and you'll get a brand new A rated modern home!

That bad, eh?
Should I steer clear?
Could never afford a new A rated home.

Paul_Mc1988

Know any trades people that would give you a deal. Are you prepared to go with direct labour and manage yourself. Could save a lot going that route.

tommythecat

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Terraced house of approximately 109 sq m. Needs a complete overhaul; kitchen, plumbing, windows, electrical, insulation and re-plastering, electric shower in main bathroom, new flooring, redecorating.

North Wicklow area.

Average sum required?

Really rough figures:
Kitchen 10k
Plumbing 7.5k
Windows 15k
Electrical 10k
Insulation etc 5k
New bathroom 5k
New floors 2-3k
Painting etc 600
Labour a few k

These are really really rough but it might give you an idea of what’s in front of you. If there are any issues found such as damp then who knows!

Cuddlesworth

Materials costs have shot up and are continuing to rise as England gets squeezed out of the supply chain, so costs from 2-3 years ago are not valid now.

Wabbit Ears

There are a few houses near me ( meath ) that are total fixer uppers which have asking prices similar and even above more modern turnkey properties. If you add a 100k to these properties they are just stupidly priced. Luckily none if them seem to be selling.

Remember with a complete fixer upper you have to live somewhere yourself while its happening.

And finally. Remember to multiply your costs by two and your timeframes by 4. So if you think itll cost 50k and 3 months realistically itll cost you 100k and a year. Source: personal experience.. others experience may differ.

Neon_Lights

A euro for some in rural Italy as long as you refurb in the next 3 years

Roisin76

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Materials costs have shot up and are continuing to rise as England gets squeezed out of the supply chain, so costs from 2-3 years ago are not valid now.

One idea would be to buy the place, move in as is and wait for the current boom to die out. Building materials as well as labor costs are cyclical.
It depends whether you're prepared to wait indefinite number of years or if you want a nice house as soon as possible.

GreeBo

tommythecat wrote: »

Really rough figures:
Kitchen 10k
Plumbing 7.5k
Windows 15k
Electrical 10k
Insulation etc 5k
New bathroom 5k
New floors 2-3k
Painting etc 600
Labour a few k

These are really really rough but it might give you an idea of what’s in front of you. If there are any issues found such as damp then who knows!

10K is a lot for a kitchen, you can get it for cheaper than that, it all depends on what finish you want and are willing to pay for.

Get all the structural (wiring, plumbing, plastering, windows) work done and then pick 1 or 2 rooms that you are going to finish to a high standard.
For the rest of the rooms get them boarded and painted and come back to them in a few years when you have more cash.

Dtp1979

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You won’t get much change out of 40k

I've just moved into a place that doesn't need much work at all and based on our general expenses, bit of work we need done etc, this seems way way waaaay on the low side.

Mad_maxx

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Also, how easy/difficult is it to hire people to do the job these days? I was reading various articles saying the price of renovations has increased, and labourers are quoting inflated prices as a deterrent as they prefer taking on bigger jobs instead of domestic jobs. Any truth to this?

Electricians are 400 per day right now, any dope who can hold a shovel is 200

Mad_maxx

tommythecat wrote: »

Really rough figures:
Kitchen 10k
Plumbing 7.5k
Windows 15k
Electrical 10k
Insulation etc 5k
New bathroom 5k
New floors 2-3k
Painting etc 600
Labour a few k

These are really really rough but it might give you an idea of what’s in front of you. If there are any issues found such as damp then who knows!

Even you painted the joint yourself, the paint would be 600, you need a 2500 budget for painting

PokeHerKing

Sunrise_Sunset wrote:

Terraced house of approximately 109 sq m. Needs a complete overhaul; kitchen, plumbing, windows, electrical, insulation and re-plastering, electric shower in main bathroom, new flooring, redecorating.

We did exactly this 5 years ago in dublin. Mates rates on a few of the trades and managed it ourselves .

It was 33k all in. The house has roughly doubled in value since, so I'd say double the cost of the work as well.

Mad_maxx

PokeHerKing wrote: »

We did exactly this 5 years ago in dublin. Mates rates on a few of the trades and managed it ourselves .

It was 33k all in. The house has roughly doubled in value since, so I'd say double the cost of the work as well.

Might as well be comparing to 1914

stiofan85

Did an end of terrace 1930s complete gutting, some structural work, windows, heating, wiring, insulation, plastering, bathroom, kitchen, new floors, and also a big cabin in the back garden. All told I reckon I put 70k into it. I did a lot myself except for the stuff that requires certs.

Don't do it. It'll break your heart, your wallet and your relationship. Imo, you can't get the value back.

jlm29

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

Also, how easy/difficult is it to hire people to do the job these days? I was reading various articles saying the price of renovations has increased, and labourers are quoting inflated prices as a deterrent as they prefer taking on bigger jobs instead of domestic jobs. Any truth to this?

A lot of truth. It would be quicker to do an apprenticeship than to wait for an electrician or plumber, unless you’re lucky enough to have a few tradespeople in your circle of family or friends

c.p.w.g.w

jlm29 wrote: »

A lot of truth. It would be quicker to do an apprenticeship than to wait for an electrician or plumber, unless you’re lucky enough to have a few tradespeople in your circle of family or friends

Tilers are just as bad too, have a friend doing the tiling for me. She's a retired tiler who works in another field now, but when she realised how difficult it was to get a tiler, so offered... thankfully

PokeHerKing

Mad_maxx wrote:

Might as well be comparing to 1914

I can't imagine it's much more than 66k to renovate a medium sized terraced house with no structural/extension work.

stiofan85

jlm29 wrote: »

A lot of truth. It would be quicker to do an apprenticeship than to wait for an electrician or plumber, unless you’re lucky enough to have a few tradespeople in your circle of family or friends

This adds so much cost. You struggle to get someone, wasting work time phoning around, then you take time off to get a quote, it's a hail Mary quote but you've no one to compare to and you're just happy to have someone do it.

Then they don't show up!

Sunrise_Sunset

After handing over a deposit, we won't have much left for renovations. The main things would need to be done first, and the smaller jobs over the years.
But the idea of a lower monthly mortgage repayment appeals to me, as the house is cheaper than other houses of the same size in the area.

Mad_maxx

PokeHerKing wrote: »

I can't imagine it's much more than 66k to renovate a medium sized terraced house with no structural/extension work.

Labour costs are about 75 % higher today for tradesmen than in 2014

mfceiling

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Electricians are 400 per day right now, any dope who can hold a shovel is 200

Can I get the name of this employer?
Qualified sparks on our job are on 26 an hour PAYE.
Labourers are on between 11 and 13 an hour.

ballyharpat

mfceiling wrote: »

Can I get the name of this employer?
Qualified sparks on our job are on 26 an hour PAYE.
Labourers are on between 11 and 13 an hour.

Here in Killarney, a decent sparky ears about e25 per hour, add to that, the cost of holidays etc, and then the company has to make a few quid to cover their costs, so youre looking at about e35 per hour, I'm guessing.

A labourer probably costs about e200+ per day, unless you hire them yourself, then you have to supervise them.

Do as much as you can yourself, and the only tradesmen you hire should definitely be people you can trust, and people that are good at what they do. I have seen and experienced sh*t tradesmen, that may charge less, but are so bad, that they do poor work and take so long that it cost away more.

PokeHerKing

Mad_maxx wrote:

Labour costs are about 75 % higher today for tradesmen than in 2014

Which is why I told the OP it would be roughly double what I paid.

Ray Palmer

OP how handy are you? Some of the work you are talking about is very easy to do but you will pay a lot to get it done. Kitchens are one of the biggest ripoffs in the trade. Essentially kitchen units are just flat packs you can do yourself. Hire a carpenter to hang the doors if you aren't handy and the counter top.
Modern plumbing is pretty easy now too and you could do a lot yourself.
Electricity is best avoided due to danger and difficulty.

Claw Hammer

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

After handing over a deposit, we won't have much left for renovations. The main things would need to be done first, and the smaller jobs over the years.
But the idea of a lower monthly mortgage repayment appeals to me, as the house is cheaper than other houses of the same size in the area.

If you are buying a fixer upper, but not fixing, the thing to do is to skimp on absolutely everything. Live with what is there for as long as you can, buy second-hand furniture at auctions and build up enough money to that you can do things properly. For example if you are rewiring, you should do the heating system as well so that you don't take up floorboards for one thing and then have to take them up again for another. One of the advantages of not doing anything straightaway is that you will see how your own lifestyle and requirements are best met. Some people buy a house and do a lot of work immediately only to find after they moved in that some of the work didn't suit them. I know other people who moved in, waited a few years and then did a comprehensive makeover.

terrydel

One thing to bear in mind is that if the place is cold, damp whatever and you decide to live in that for an extended period, it'll damage your health. Personally think people ignore the health impact of a good home over a bad one.

GaGa21

We are doing a similiar renovation with a budget of 40k but without the windows so add probably another 10k for that.
My advice is to get at least 3 quotes for each job. And try go direct labour instead of with a contractor.
Furnishings, appliances, beds,etc will obviously be more again.

tommythecat

tommythecat wrote: »

Really rough figures:

Windows 15k
/QUOTE]

Its a terraced house ,
Even if it cost a grand a window/door you couldn't make 15k worth of windows.

Sleepy

Depends on the windows BrownFinger. I'll be looking at roughly 10k just to do the front of our terraced house because we have to use a particular type of sash window as we're in an Architectural Conservation Area). It'll easily clear 20k by the time we get the back done as well.

ted1

Top end coloured PVC windows including fitting are about 900 euro a window.

Better than an average triple glazed.



A decent size large kitchen from ikea 3,500.
Appliances 2500, flooring 1,000

The Enbalmer

ted1 wrote: »

Top end coloured PVC windows including fitting are about 900 euro a window.

Better than an average triple glazed.



A decent size large kitchen from ikea 3,500.
Appliances 2500, flooring 1,000

Ikea kitchens are crap and they are already becoming unpopular..if you ever want to sell an Ikea kitchen will not help you!

BrownFinger

BrownFinger wrote: »

Its a terraced house ,
Even if it cost a grand a window/door you couldn't make 15k worth of windows.

I got quotes from Fairco and Senator at the weekend for 5 windows in my mid terrace and the cheaper one was about 1200 per window, but still a long way to 15k.

On ikea kitchens, they charge nearly as much to install as they do to buy the thing if you're not going to do it yourself.

Ray Palmer

On IKEA kitchens DO NOT BUY.

They use a different sizing than the standard sizes used in Ireland. Standard unit in Ireland are 600mm and so our the appliances. Can't remember their measurements but they are different and you have to compensate around them. Then you are stuck with Ikea for your kitchen or have to RIP everything out.

Kitchens are really easy to install and the plumbing part are easy with water already there

Ray Palmer

Ray Palmer wrote: »

On IKEA kitchens DO NOT BUY.

They use a different sizing than the standard sizes used in Ireland. Standard unit in Ireland are 600mm and so our the appliances. Can't remember their measurements but they are different and you have to compensate around them. Then you are stuck with Ikea for your kitchen or have to RIP everything out.

Kitchens are really easy to install and the plumbing part are easy with water already there

I think in the coming years I'm going to try install my own kitchen. Are there places other than IKEA you csn buy them 'flat pack' or can any kitchen place supply it for self install?

ted1

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Ikea kitchens are crap and they are already becoming unpopular..if you ever want to sell an Ikea kitchen will not help you!

Rubbish. They are excellent and because they are modular they are very customisable and have lots of optional extras.

What makes you say they are crap ?

ted1

Ray Palmer wrote: »

On IKEA kitchens DO NOT BUY.

They use a different sizing than the standard sizes used in Ireland. Standard unit in Ireland are 600mm and so our the appliances. Can't remember their measurements but they are different and you have to compensate around them. Then you are stuck with Ikea for your kitchen or have to RIP everything out.

Kitchens are really easy to install and the plumbing part are easy with water already there

And they sell appliances that fit. It’s not really an issue.

Edit: out if interest I just picked a random integrated dishwasher in curry’s and IKEA. Both the same size

https://www.currys.ie/ieen/household-appliances/dishwashing/dishwashers/beko-din15x11-full-size-fully-integrated-dishwasher-10182820-pdt.html


https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/kitchen-products/appliances/dishwashers/lagan-integrated-dishwasher-white-art-40385798/


Ikea are also 600.

https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/products/kitchen-products/kitchen-cabinets/metod-base-cabinet-with-shelves-white-ringhult-white-spr-39911475/

ted1

Antonio Faint Sociopath wrote: »

I think in the coming years I'm going to try install my own kitchen. Are there places other than IKEA you csn buy them 'flat pack' or can any kitchen place supply it for self install?

Yes, but there are very limited in the configuration and extras.

The beauty with Ikea is you go go back in a few years and purchase new doors , shelves , etc and change your kitchen at minimal cost. As everything fits and is easily interchangeable

tabby aspreme

The main differences, with Ikea kitchens are the height of the units, for example, a standard base unit is 720mm high , an Ikea base unit is 800mm high, also Ikea units need a 630mm deep worktop to cover them, a standard worktop is 600 mm deep. The quality of Ikea units is similar to most on the market but I think the laminate on their worktops is thinner than other laminate worktops.

GreeBo

Antonio Faint Sociopath wrote: »

I think in the coming years I'm going to try install my own kitchen. Are there places other than IKEA you csn buy them 'flat pack' or can any kitchen place supply it for self install?

B&q and cash and carry kitchen will also sell them seed install.

Ikea units are fine.

3500 will buy a lot of self install kitchen!

I just replaced double oven, hob, dishwasher, fridge and microwave for 1300 between powercityc and Harvey Norman.
Again 2500 will go a long way off you let it, remembering that you don't have to buy the best of everything now, get the structure right and upgrade finishes later.

Don't build a crappy house and put in nice finishes.

Ray Palmer

Antonio Faint Sociopath wrote: »

Ray Palmer wrote: »

On IKEA kitchens DO NOT BUY.

They use a different sizing than the standard sizes used in Ireland. Standard unit in Ireland are 600mm and so our the appliances. Can't remember their measurements but they are different and you have to compensate around them. Then you are stuck with Ikea for your kitchen or have to RIP everything out.

Kitchens are really easy to install and the plumbing part are easy with water already there

I think in the coming years I'm going to try install my own kitchen. Are there places other than IKEA you csn buy them 'flat pack' or can any kitchen place supply it for self install?

The point is pretty much all kitchens are flat pack. Unless you are paying somebody to hand make your kitchen they are all flat pack. Any building provider will supply most part for a kitchen. The things like doors and work tops can be purchased from specialist if you want a particular finish.
Get good carcasses and so even if you totally redesign the kitchen you can reuse them.
The prices for kitchen doors etc are extortionate given that they generally just coated MDF. I have seen designs where people got plywood doors made at a fraction of the price. Can look very well and can be painted. Counter top lengths are cheap yet the charges for installation is normally jacked up when getting it as an install package.

Sunrise_Sunset

tommythecat wrote: »

Really rough figures:
Kitchen 10k
Plumbing 7.5k
Windows 15k
Electrical 10k
Insulation etc 5k
New bathroom 5k
New floors 2-3k
Painting etc 600
Labour a few k

These are really really rough but it might give you an idea of what’s in front of you. If there are any issues found such as damp then who knows!

Order of importance? Electrical and plumbing first? Then insulation, floors, windows, kitchen, bathroom?

Sunrise_Sunset

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

There are a few houses near me ( meath ) that are total fixer uppers which have asking prices similar and even above more modern turnkey properties. If you add a 100k to these properties they are just stupidly priced. Luckily none if them seem to be selling.

This one is up for sale a few months now. Recently reduced the price from 285k to 270k. EA told me there was a cash offer of 260k that they turned down (this was before the price was reduced). Seems a bit odd. Unless they pulled their offer before then.
If it realistically needs 100k of work, I wouldn't want to pay more than 200k for the house. We don't have a lot of scope for getting 100k together though. Most of our money will be gone for the deposit.

ted1

Sunrise_Sunset wrote: »

This one is up for sale a few months now. Recently reduced the price from 285k to 270k. EA told me there was a cash offer of 260k that they turned down (this was before the price was reduced). Seems a bit odd. Unless they pulled their offer before then.
If it realistically needs 100k of work, I wouldn't want to pay more than 200k for the house. We don't have a lot of scope for getting 100k together though. Most of our money will be gone for the deposit.

Often you find that when you move in the realistic figure is a nowhere near the figure you thought when you first looked at it.

The pipes might be ok. So all off a sudden you are just changing a boiler for 1800 instead if plumbing for 7.5.

The wiring might be ok. Just change consumer board. And so on.

Sunrise_Sunset

ted1 wrote: »

Often you find that when you move in the realistic figure is a nowhere near the figure you thought when you first looked at it.

The pipes might be ok. So all off a sudden you are just changing a boiler for 1800 instead if plumbing for 7.5.

The wiring might be ok. Just change consumer board. And so on.

Can these be checked before buying? Where would I get this information?

awec

Antonio Faint Sociopath wrote: »

I think in the coming years I'm going to try install my own kitchen. Are there places other than IKEA you csn buy them 'flat pack' or can any kitchen place supply it for self install?

Aside from really high end kitchens, which are literally built from scratch in your house, kitchens in general come as flat pack. They may even be semi-assembled, and it's like putting together a jigsaw.