Do you think there's a stigma against men showing emotions?

noubliezjamais

Specifically vulnerable ones? I never thought is was the case among young people. I've been in Ireland for 10 years and growing up, guys and girls were different but seemed to be about the same.

It only dawned on me that I've only seen women ever cry in public. I don't have a problem with men being "traditionally masculine" and being more stoic and neither do I have a problem with people letting emotions, but I wonder if those gender norms are still true.

I've seen a few adult women bawling their eyes out in shopping centres and on the bus. And not intoxicated. The only guys I've seen are kids.

Pawwed Rig

I have seen men cry many times, mostly at funerals or low points in their lives.
Bawling in a shopping centre is just hysterical attention seeking imo.

freshpopcorn

I have seen both men/women get emotional in public at funerals,weddings, discussing a serious topic.
The main difference I see is. I don't often see or hear men saying they were bawling watching TV last night.

Wibbs

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have seen men cry many times, mostly at funerals or low points in their lives.
Bawling in a shopping centre is just hysterical attention seeking imo.

This pretty much. Though TBH I find either gender bawling at the drop of a hat damned irritating as well as hysterical attention seeking and it tends to make me mark them down as eejits. Keep your **** together FFS, you're not a toddler.

Stepping Stone

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Bawling in a shopping centre is just hysterical attention seeking imo.

I am a woman. I was in a large shopping centre, on my own, at least a few minutes walk from the nearest exit. I got a call with news that a close relative had died very suddenly. If I was in a different environment, I might have handled it better but in a crowded, stressful place, I completely broke down. I cried and cried. It wasn’t attention seeking, I was devastated and really in a bad place to get news like that. I cried as I walked out the door, to the car and I cried and cried as I drove home. A little empathy would be nice for people who find themselves in similar situations.

A coworker was in a shopping centre with her kids when she saw her husband with the woman he had left her for a few weeks before. She cried, not for attention but because she was overwhelmed and couldn’t stop the tears.

No normal adult cries in public without very good reason. If you see someone crying, there will be a reason.

Pawwed Rig

Getting upset is vastly different than bawling. We have all received these kinds of calls and haven't made a public spectacle of ourselves.

Stepping Stone wrote: »

No normal adult cries in public without very good reason. If you see someone crying, there will be a reason.

That is not true. I have met plenty in my lifetime that love the drama and attention.

Define normal?

But to answer the OPs question - no there is not a stigma on men crying. There is a stigma on other types of emotion though such as anger.

Stepping Stone

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Getting upset is vastly different than bawling. We have all received these kinds of calls and haven't made a public spectacle of ourselves.



That is not true. I have met plenty in my lifetime that love the drama and attention.

Define normal?

But to answer the OPs question - no there is not a stigma on men crying. There is a stigma on other types of emotion though such as anger.

I was bawling. I was in bits.

As for normal, a friend married a woman who loves drama and attention. When you get to know her, it’s painfully obvious that she has serious mental health issues. There’s all sorts of drama, work drama, personal drama and social media drama. She can’t keep jobs, friends, etc. She’s very, very unwell and quite dangerous to be around (lies, fantasies and more lies) but he thinks that she’s great craic and just lively. In short, she’s not normal. She believes The stories that she makes up! This is not what I mean by normal behaviour. People who are looking for that level of attention are generally unwell. As a society, we have to learn to recognise ‘normal’ and ‘abnormal’ behaviour.

As for men expressing emotion, I have seen men cry but it often seems that the most socially acceptable display of emotion is anger. Anger is good, it’s not embarrassing and doesn’t make people uncomfortable but crying and showing a softer side is going to make people uncomfortable and is discouraged. This goes for both genders!

Pawwed Rig

Unusual way to react in a shopping centre imo. And fairly irresponsible of the person that gave you the news if they knew you would react like that. They should have made sure you were home or told you face to face.

A certain resilience is needed in life. Everyone gets life changing news as parents, siblings, spouses and sometimes even children pass away. One still needs to function and get on with things. Wailing and shouting achieves nothing.

joe40

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Specifically vulnerable ones? I never thought is was the case among young people. I've been in Ireland for 10 years and growing up, guys and girls were different but seemed to be about the same.

It only dawned on me that I've only seen women ever cry in public. I don't have a problem with men being "traditionally masculine" and being more stoic and neither do I have a problem with people letting emotions, but I wonder if those gender norms are still true.

I've seen a few adult women bawling their eyes out in shopping centres and on the bus. And not intoxicated. The only guys I've seen are kids.

Yes absolutely there is a stigma for men crying, exceptions would be in the case of bereavement or strangely sporting success/failure.
The stigma may not even be deliberate but crying would more readily be seen as a sign of weakness in a male than a female.
Some of the comments here would appear to back this up.

For example, if a woman had a difficult situation at work or a row with a friend, etc there might be tears of upset. I'm not necessarily talking about serious issues or hysterical crying but I think we all know the type of thing I'm talking about.
A man in the same situation could express hurt, anger whatever but if there were tears it would be perceived differently, even if subconsciously, by people.
I think the woman crying would be less of an issue.

it might be that there is

id say to a fella afflicted with a stigma in ireland in 2019 the same thing that i would to a woman

a stigma isnt a big deal. do your thing.

freshpopcorn

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unusual way to react in a shopping centre imo. And fairly irresponsible of the person that gave you the news if they knew you would react like that. They should have made sure you were home or told you face to face.

A certain resilience is needed in life. Everyone gets life changing news as parents, siblings, spouses and sometimes even children pass away. One still needs to function and get on with things. Wailing and shouting achieves nothing.

I think this is how a lot of us men are programmed to deal with situations.
My family would never have being the type to breakdown in public but those who I know that would. They would get it from there parents.

Stepping Stone

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unusual way to react in a shopping centre imo. And fairly irresponsible of the person that gave you the news if they knew you would react like that. They should have made sure you were home or told you face to face.

A certain resilience is needed in life. Everyone gets life changing news as parents, siblings, spouses and sometimes even children pass away. One still needs to function and get on with things. Wailing and shouting achieves nothing.

Unusual way to react? How would you react if you got a phone call saying that your younger, healthy sibling had dropped dead? Would you just be calm and resilient or would you experience pain, panic and grief? It was an undiagnosed heart condition. Completely out of the blue. I was due to call out to them that afternoon. I was caught completely unawares. I didn’t wail and shout. I cried. No wailing, no shouting. I crumbled up inside and I cried. My mother called me. The Gardaí were with her and she was alone apart from them. She called in complete blind panic and needed me.

Your coldness is not indicative of a certain resilience. It’s really unhealthy to expect people to be grand when they receive bad news. People die, sure how bad, Stuff upper lip and get on with it isn’t at all helpful. It’s deeply unhealthy to just bury emotions. For the record, I functioned and continue to function perfectly well. I have sympathy and empathy, which you do not appear to have on a functional level.

Jurgen Klopp

I wouldn't blame you for breaking down Stepping Stones that was awful thing to happen

Same goes for your friend, Jesus the stress and upset that would have been on her never mind seeing the cheating ex husband with the new woman and he only gone a few weeks

mdwexford

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unusual way to react in a shopping centre imo. And fairly irresponsible of the person that gave you the news if they knew you would react like that. They should have made sure you were home or told you face to face.

A certain resilience is needed in life. Everyone gets life changing news as parents, siblings, spouses and sometimes even children pass away. One still needs to function and get on with things. Wailing and shouting achieves nothing.

What a ridiculous post.

So you’d get a call your kids are dead and just stroll home stoned face. Sure you would.

People in genuine distress on receipt of devastating news are not making a spectacle of themselves, even if in public. People going into hysterics because someone bumped into them, or because the store has run out of a video game, that's making a spectacle of yourself.

Getting upset because someone you love has just died suddenly is a natural reaction and in some people it is overwhelming in the moment, and that is - or should be - completely understandable and deserving of compassion. Nor is it attention seeking, and it's not something you somehow inherit from your parents either.

A sudden death is a terrible shock as well as a loss and I'm very sorry for your loss, Stepping Stone.

Stepping Stone

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

I wouldn't blame you for breaking down Stepping Stones that was awful thing to happen

Same goes for your friend, Jesus the stress and upset that would have been on her never mind seeing the cheating ex husband with the new woman and he only gone a few weeks

Thank you.

The irony was, she had gone to a shopping centre in another city so that she could be anonymous and not meet anyone. Her husband had gone there too, for the same reasons.

Stepping Stone

Thanks for the sympathy. I didn’t even intend to give details, just wanted to say that if you see someone in public crying, be aware that it’s not as black and white as attention seeking or choosing to make a mess of yourself in the most public way possible.

Pawwed Rig

Stepping Stone wrote: »

Unusual way to react? How would you react if you got a phone call saying that your younger, healthy sibling had dropped dead? Would you just be calm and resilient or would you experience pain, panic and grief? It was an undiagnosed heart condition. Completely out of the blue. I was due to call out to them that afternoon. I was caught completely unawares. I didn’t wail and shout. I cried. No wailing, no shouting. I crumbled up inside and I cried. My mother called me. The Gardaí were with her and she was alone apart from them. She called in complete blind panic and needed me.

Your coldness is not indicative of a certain resilience. It’s really unhealthy to expect people to be grand when they receive bad news. People die, sure how bad, Stuff upper lip and get on with it isn’t at all helpful. It’s deeply unhealthy to just bury emotions. For the record, I functioned and continue to function perfectly well. I have sympathy and empathy, which you do not appear to have on a functional level.

Ignoring the ad hominem but when you get bad news there is a difference between being upset and bawling hysterically. As I said, we have all received bad news in our lives. I am well into middle age. Bad stuff happens lots of times particularly in large families like I have.
1. I never said bury emotions, 2. I never said stiff upper lip, 3. I never said people should be grand but getting hysterical in public is hardly a healthy activity either.

Bawling would imply wailing and shouting which you said you didn't do so not sure why you are getting so wound up here.

steddyeddy

I don't think it's just makes men this harder. I was reading a thread on the Personal problems forum years back. A girl described her boyfriend crying about something and how she thought that was "weird". Another poster replied saying "if her boyfriend cried she'd be rid of him". That was ironically thanked by one or two posters who subsequently posted suggesting that men should show more emotions. Support from partners is important in this regard too.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't think it's just makes men this harder. I was reading a thread on the Personal problems forum years back. A girl described her boyfriend crying about something and how she thought that was "weird". Another poster replied saying "if her boyfriend cried she'd be rid of him". That was ironically thanked by one or two posters who subsequently posted suggesting that men should show more emotions. Support from partners is important in this regard too.

There's a big gap between walking the walk and talking the talk when it comes to this. I used to work with an organisation that did a lot of workshops with people bereaved by suicide, I saw many many times the effect a crying man can have on people, even under those circumstances.

The other thing is often when men express negative emotions it's expressed as anger, which is interpreted as aggression towards the person to whom they're talking. It's not necessarily at all, it's just a physiological response to the emotion, much as crying often is for women. But it leads to them being shut down.

Being constantly told it's ok to express your feelings, that you should do it, and then when you put yourself in that vulnerable position finding out that what's actually meant is "express your feelings, but not too much, and not in a way that makes anyone uncomfortable" must be so frustrating and devastating. It's understandable why people respond by shutting down, and no amount of glib lip service to mental health will change that.

Church on Tuesday

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Unusual way to react in a shopping centre imo. And fairly irresponsible of the person that gave you the news if they knew you would react like that. They should have made sure you were home or told you face to face.

A certain resilience is needed in life. Everyone gets life changing news as parents, siblings, spouses and sometimes even children pass away. One still needs to function and get on with things. Wailing and shouting achieves nothing.

While I take your point, and I've had some interesting exchanges on a thread on Bullying in After Hours where I dare suggested that kids need to develop a thick skin, the reality is that women are emotional beings and men are, generally speaking, much more stoic and reserved in their emotions.

If a women where to receive upsetting news in public like that and breaks down, that is her natural, fairly understandable feminine reaction.

There's still a stigma attached to men showing emotions certainly, but if you're the kind of guy who's blabbering the whole time, frankly you won't be taken seriously by either gender. You have to remain somewhat centered at all times, even if you feel like ****.

...Ghost...

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Bawling would imply wailing and shouting which you said you didn't do so not sure why you are getting so wound up here.

That's what I took from that post. When I think "crying", it's watery eyes, wet cheeks and snuffing. When I think "bawling", it's break-down, loud crying, everyones attention is drawn to a bawler.

There is most definitely a stigma for males crying. In general, it's acceptable for a man to cry only when the most devastating, or overwhelming things happen. For a woman, it's ok to cry when passing by the local pet shop and there is a cute bunny staring out the window. The thresholds are poles apart.

Church on Tuesday

...Ghost... wrote: »

That's what I took from that post. When I think "crying", it's watery eyes, wet cheeks and snuffing. When I think "bawling", it's break-down, loud crying, everyones attention is drawn to a bawler.

There is most definitely a stigma for males crying. In general, it's acceptable for a man to cry only when the most devastating, or overwhelming things happen. For a woman, it's ok to cry when passing by the local pet shop and there is a cute bunny staring out the window. The thresholds are poles apart.

You do realize woman are emotional beings, right?

...Ghost...

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

You do realize woman are emotional beings, right?

Are you suggesting men are not? Or is it that you have a problem with me pointing out the truth?

Church on Tuesday

...Ghost... wrote: »

Are you suggesting men are not? Or is it that you have a problem with me pointing out the truth?

Every human being is emotional. Women are more emotional than men because it's in their feminine nature to be so.

It's mental some men tut tuting women for acting like they are naturally supposed to do and shows a certain lack of understanding of the opposite sex.

steddyeddy

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Every human being is emotional. Women are more emotional than men because it's in their feminine nature to be so.

It's mental some men tut tuting women for acting like they are naturally supposed to do and shows a certain lack of understanding of the opposite sex.

Feminine = emotional? Could you back that up with some science please.

Church on Tuesday

steddyeddy wrote: »

Feminine = emotional? Could you back that up with some science please.

Are you a man?

...Ghost...

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Every human being is emotional. Women are more emotional than men because it's in their feminine nature to be so.

That's repeating what I posted above, except my post had some examples, so I don't see anything in your post which expands on, or contradicts my point.

It's mental some men tut tuting women for acting like they are naturally supposed to do and shows a certain lack of understanding of the opposite sex.

Some men understand perfectly that most women are more emotionally inclined to wet the cheeks and open the kleenex. We also know that much of it is attention seeking and OTT. That's not to dismiss genuine emotional distress.

steddyeddy

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Are you a man?

What does that matter?

...Ghost...

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Are you a man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRwRVFtxcdc

Zorya

I don't think there is a 'stigma' as such, or at least there should not be one. But I will admit if my husband cries which he has done on less than a handful of occasions in the more than 3 decades I know him, I get a terrible feeling of fright and despair on his behalf. It looks so painful for him and I know it is true sorrow has brought him to that point. Seeing a woman cry doesn't do that for me. Or at least rarely.
While I'm not a bawler I do cry, but usually in secret. The giveaway signs, even after a brief wallow, are my face swells up like a million bees stung it, my eyes become slits, and my nose goes Rudolf red!


''Something wrong with ya?''

''No!''

''But...your face...''

''Feck off! And leave me alone!''

''But...your face...''

:pac:

PokeHerKing

Pawwed Rig wrote:

Ignoring the ad hominem but when you get bad news there is a difference between being upset and bawling hysterically. As I said, we have all received bad news in our lives. I am well into middle age. Bad stuff happens lots of times particularly in large families like I have. 1. I never said bury emotions, 2. I never said stiff upper lip, 3. I never said people should be grand but getting hysterical in public is hardly a healthy activity either.

Check out this guy telling people how to deal with tragedy..

Church on Tuesday

steddyeddy wrote: »

What does that matter?

It's a fairly straightforward question are you male or female?

Church on Tuesday

...Ghost... wrote: »

That's repeating what I posted above, except my post had some examples, so I don't see anything in your post which expands on, or contradicts my point.



Some men understand perfectly that most women are more emotionally inclined to wet the cheeks and open the kleenex. We also know that much of it is attention seeking and OTT. That's not to dismiss genuine emotional distress.

All women want attention in some form or another.

Unless the woman is an emotional wreck constantly (which would indicate some deep underlying problem) I really fail to see what the issue is here.

stefanovich

noubliezjamais wrote: »

Specifically vulnerable ones? I never thought is was the case among young people. I've been in Ireland for 10 years and growing up, guys and girls were different but seemed to be about the same.

It only dawned on me that I've only seen women ever cry in public. I don't have a problem with men being "traditionally masculine" and being more stoic and neither do I have a problem with people letting emotions, but I wonder if those gender norms are still true.

I've seen a few adult women bawling their eyes out in shopping centres and on the bus. And not intoxicated. The only guys I've seen are kids.

Men tend to be less hysterical than women. I cry maybe once every 5 years.

stefanovich

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's a fairly straightforward question are you male or female?

That question is offensive to all non binary people.

Church on Tuesday

stefanovich wrote: »

That question is offensive to all non binary people.

I know I know my bad.

steddyeddy

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's a fairly straightforward question are you male or female?

I understand the question but don't know it's relevance to my post. Can you answer my straightforward question?

Feminine = emotional? Could you back that up with some science please.

Brendan Delaney

The only time it's acceptable for a man to cry would be the death of a loved one.

If you cry because you had a bad day at work or you saw a sad movie, then **** me your man card should be revoked.

Church on Tuesday

steddyeddy wrote: »

I understand the question but don't know it's relevance to my post. Can you answer my straightforward question?

It's fairly relevant.

I more or less have. You don't need science to understand women or thier emotions, they're not some mystical being. It's more common sense.

Women are emotional beings. Every decision they make is based on emotions. That's the very essence of femine energy. Heightened emotions when women get upset are pretty normal.

It's what seperates masculine from femine energy.

SEPT 23 1989

A man should remain stoic when a wife or girlfriend gets hysterical

A comforting embrace a kind word is required in these situations

Not reaching for a box of tissues

Church on Tuesday

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

A man should remain stoic when a wife or girlfriend gets hysterical

A comforting embrace a kind word is required in these situations

Not reaching for a box of tissues

Yup, its exactly and all she wants you to do.

That and listening to what the problem is.

Pawwed Rig

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Check out this guy telling people how to deal with tragedy..

That was a list of things I didn't say. I didn't include any advice there. I think you quoted the wrong person

Gimme A Pound

Neither grown men nor women should be hysterical in public (obviously I'm making an exception for horrific things but that is rare) however a gentle cry in private is ok imo. Even if a guy finds a movie very sad - like a war film with children being killed (not a fecking romantic chick flick!) - nothing wrong with his emotions getting the better of him for a few minutes. Stoicism, dignity, reservedness, calm, humour - these are all important qualities in times of crisis (which I think women should aim for too) but I dislike the attitude of viewing a man giving into his emotions as weak outside of only the really extreme things. It's not good for him to bottle up all the time and it's why some men turn to booze to deal with it. Particularly if they've experienced a terrible trauma.

I'm not referring to the social media hysteria on Tumblr and the likes obviously though. That's nothing but negative.

Gimme A Pound

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ignoring the ad hominem but when you get bad news there is a difference between being upset and bawling hysterically. As I said, we have all received bad news in our lives. I am well into middle age. Bad stuff happens lots of times particularly in large families like I have.
1. I never said bury emotions, 2. I never said stiff upper lip, 3. I never said people should be grand but getting hysterical in public is hardly a healthy activity either.

Bawling would imply wailing and shouting which you said you didn't do so not sure why you are getting so wound up here.

Your healthy sibling dying suddenly at a young age is not a thing that happens to people all the time. It is an extremely rare thing to happen actually.

steddyeddy wrote: »

Feminine = emotional? Could you back that up with some science please.

Isn't it well established? I'm female and I'm well aware that I'm more emotional than men (generally speaking).

iptba

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I have seen both men/women get emotional in public at funerals,weddings, discussing a serious topic.
The main difference I see is. I don't often see or hear men saying they were bawling watching TV last night.

I have no problems with a movie causing someone to cry. Movies and the like are designed to manipulate emotions and you don't have time to reflect generally.

I actually think it can be more understandable than somebody repeatedly crying about a problem/issue they have had time to reflect on over weeks/months/years.

The former rarely involves feeling sorry for yourself; you're feeling sorry for a character generally. The latter can involve feeling sorry for yourself.

Wibbs

steddyeddy wrote: »

I understand the question but don't know it's relevance to my post. Can you answer my straightforward question?

Depends on the emotions and how they're expressed SE. It makes solid sense that men and women would have some differences in emotional experiences and how they may express them. We're not blank slates only shaped by culture as seems to be a popular notion for some. Hundreds of thousands, even millions of years of evolution will have had an impact on how men and women experience the world. For a start women are better at spotting the cues of emotions in others. Which makes sense, as women have had a lot more to lose by getting that wrong.

From what I've read down the years women are more likely to be upset by negative imagery and emotions, they also score higher in the neuroticism part of the five personality traits. They're more likely to suffer from anxiety related issues and the like. This does not mean women are more "neurotic", it's just a descriptor of the trait. More info here. .

Individuals vary too of course. Some are more prone to crying, but again some broad sex differences are in play. In essence women cry more often and at more things than men.

These traits are found to be consistent across cultures. There are of course major cultural influences on how emotions are expressed and this affects men and women depending on the culture. Some cultures are more stoic, some more let it all hang out and both tend to give more leeway to women for public displays of emotion.

pickarooney

Does everyone assume 'emotion' means sadness and distress?

Wibbs

Indeed. In aggression men show more than women. Externalised anyway.

Pawwed Rig

The OP specified vulnerable emotions so I guess that is why the thread progressed as it has.

steddyeddy

Wibbs wrote: »

Depends on the emotions and how they're expressed SE. It makes solid sense that men and women would have some differences in emotional experiences and how they may express them. We're not blank slates only shaped by culture as seems to be a popular notion for some. Hundreds of thousands, even millions of years of evolution will have had an impact on how men and women experience the world. For a start women are better at spotting the cues of emotions in others. Which makes sense, as women have had a lot more to lose by getting that wrong.

From what I've read down the years women are more likely to be upset by negative imagery and emotions, they also score higher in the neuroticism part of the five personality traits. They're more likely to suffer from anxiety related issues and the like. This does not mean women are more "neurotic", it's just a descriptor of the trait. More info here. .

Individuals vary too of course. Some are more prone to crying, but again some broad sex differences are in play. In essence women cry more often and at more things than men.

These traits are found to be consistent across cultures. There are of course major cultural influences on how emotions are expressed and this affects men and women depending on the culture. Some cultures are more stoic, some more let it all hang out and both tend to give more leeway to women for public displays of emotion.

I don't disagree with you Wibbs but from experience I got the impression my gender might have been used as a stick to beat me with. I.E what would a man know about this ect ect.