Employer Watching Staff on CCTV

c.p.w.g.w

Was in a shop near my work place this morning, the manager was talking to a colleague about someone from the evening shift the previous night.

Manager: Sure she was on her phone again all night
Colleague: Oh i thought you were off, last night?
Manager: Oh i was, I looked back over the camera's to see if anyone did any work last night

I was shocked, my understanding is watching your staff in that manner wasn't allowed. I thought you had to have a reasonable suspicion of a criminal action taking place...

Also why not talk to your staff

kevinandrew

I used to be a nightshift manager in a large store, I'd watch colleagues from the security guards podium all the time. It was mainly out of boredom but the odd time I'd catch some of them on their phones for excessive amounts of time or wandering off for a chat, quick announcement over the tannoy and they'd run back! I never purposely looked back at previous recordings.


I was also never given training to say it was against the rules or only allowed in certain circumstances. Everyone in management used it at some point to keep an eye on everyone and check the outside perimeter, particularly on nights.

The Satanist

The fact that a customer overheard this is a lot worse than anything the employee may have done

dartboardio

Emm. Dont find that strange at all.

I worked in a late night cafe and the boss would be watching every so often, obviously to make sure we weren't standing around for an hour at a time for example.

Of course employers watch their cameras at any given time. It's their business. What if they happened to watch right at a moment an employee steals from the till or picks up food from the kitchen floor and serves it?

Best to keep an eye. Id be doing the same if I ever own a business.

And its not all out to get the workers. Ive had my boss ring me before while he happened to glance at the cameras and ask were we okay etc when we had a dodgy looking/acting couple in acting strange down the back of the shop.

c.p.w.g.w

I can understand everyone's point. But I was very much under the impression that there are data protection laws in place that make such actions illegal, unless you have resonable suspicion that staff/customer is stealing

wiggle16

No, he's allowed watch CCTV to view pretty much anything. By way of analogy, if he can watch CCTV to see if a staff member is stealing then he can watch it to make sure they are doing what he's paying them to do and not "stealing time" or whatever they call dossing in mngmntspk.

He can watch the staff eat their lunch if he wants.

dartboardio

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I can understand everyone's point. But I was very much under the impression that there are data protection laws in place that make such actions illegal, unless you have resonable suspicion that staff/customer is stealing

Well when you find that specific law in relation to employees let me know, I never heard of it.

I was and am under the impression if I work somewhere I am on someone else's property under their authority and am expected to behave or to act a certain way. Of course they have the right to check up on me every so often and view their own CCTV footage..

What data protection could possibly come into play? You have agreed to work on a premises where there is live cameras and are walking around doing your job? I dont see any breach there...

If it was in the toilet however...

PARlance

As long as they're aware of the cameras, it's fine. Lots of companies monitor staff, staff phones, internet usage etc.

dreamers75

wiggle16 wrote: »

No, he's allowed watch CCTV to view pretty much anything. By way of analogy, if he can watch CCTV to see if a staff member is stealing then he can watch it to make sure they are doing what he's paying them to do and not "stealing time" or whatever they call dossing in mngmntspk.

He can watch the staff eat their lunch if he wants.

yes and no , CCTV is not allowed in areas designated as non work spaces ie canteens, break areas.

wiggle16

dreamers75 wrote: »

yes and no , CCTV is not allowed in areas designated as non work spaces ie canteens, break areas.

No that's not true. Every single place I have worked has had CCTV in break areas and non-work areas.

You're not allowed have CCTV in toilets and changing rooms. That's all.

So yes, the manager can watch you eat lunch, unless people like theirs in a cubicle.

Necro

wiggle16 wrote: »

No, he's allowed watch CCTV to view pretty much anything. By way of analogy, if he can watch CCTV to see if a staff member is stealing then he can watch it to make sure they are doing what he's paying them to do and not "stealing time" or whatever they call dossing in mngmntspk.

He can watch the staff eat their lunch if he wants.

Pretty sure that isn't ok actually, unless they're eating it on the shop floor.

Public areas - A-OK. Staff only areas are a no no from my brief career in retail management.

wiggle16

Necro wrote: »

Pretty sure that isn't ok actually, unless they're eating it on the shop floor.

Public areas - A-OK. Staff only areas are a no no from my brief career in retail management.

Must depend on the shop. I worked in a supermarket for eight years and we had CCTV everywhere except toilets and changing rooms.

In addition insurance premiums are affected by how well monitored a place is - staff can still have accidents in staff only areas and the employer can be held liable. That particular shop had two break-ins via staff only areas which also justifies CCTV.

Larbre34

Its fine, perfectly legal. How else could huge workplaces be supervised/monitored/secured?

It was poor form to discuss within earshot of a customer, but nothing more.

In case it comes as a shock to anyone, you should live your life assuming everything you say and do, in and out of work can be recorded.

wiggle16

I should qualify what I'm saying. The CCTV in staff only areas and the shop floor CCTV were two separate systems. A manager could watch the shop floor but would not have been able to watch staff in staff only areas.

Necro

wiggle16 wrote: »

Must depend on the shop. I worked in a supermarket for eight years and we had CCTV everywhere except toilets and changing rooms.

In addition insurance premiums are affected by how well monitored a place is - staff can still have accidents in staff only areas and the employer can be held liable. That particular shop had two break-ins via staff only areas which also justifies CCTV.

Well you can have CCTV in a corridor leading to a staff room but I don't think you're allowed to have one in the actual canteen.

Probably does differ depending on the size and scale of the stores though.

Could be worse, worked in a place in Australia with cameras monitoring the staff living quarters.

That was an awkward few months.

kevinandrew

Yep, definitely not allowed in staff only areas such as canteens, locker rooms or offices. The only place my former workplace had it other than the shop floor or store exterior was the warehouse and loading bay, everything else was off limits.

dreamers75

wiggle16 wrote: »

No that's not true. Every single place I have worked has had CCTV in break areas and non-work areas.

You're not allowed have CCTV in toilets and changing rooms. That's all.

So yes, the manager can watch you eat lunch, unless people like theirs in a cubicle.

No you cant have CCTV in places people havent agreed to have them in.

Canteens and break areas are considered off limits unless the employee agreed to them, if they did well i wouldnt work there tbh. they probaly have sound recordings too..............

Jet Black

dartboardio wrote: »

Well when you find that specific law in relation to employees let me know, I never heard of it.

I was and am under the impression if I work somewhere I am on someone else's property under their authority and am expected to behave or to act a certain way. Of course they have the right to check up on me every so often and view their own CCTV footage..

What data protection could possibly come into play? You have agreed to work on a premises where there is live cameras and are walking around doing your job? I dont see any breach there...

If it was in the toilet however...

Here. It's covered under GDPR and data protection.

Constant monitoring isn't allowed. Only if it was noticed in passing or the employer has a reason to check the camera. The employer in my old job tried this. Sat watching the camera constantly keeping notes on everyone then one day gave out **** to everyone. Union got involved and he never looked at them again.

wiggle16

We definitely had them in the canteen... I suppose whether they are allowed or not is a different story! Myself I don't really see why they shouldn't be.

Our canteen had a balcony as a smoking area, and there were two break ins via that balcony, one of them was during opening hours at gunpoint (so glad I wasn't on break at the time!). Can definitely see the point of having them in staff areas, especially where there is potential access to the building.

dreamers75

Jet Black wrote: »

Here. It's covered under GDPR and data protection.

Constant monitoring isn't allowed. Only if it was noticed in passing or the employer has a reason to check the camera. The employer in my old job tried this. Sat watching the camera constantly keeping notes on everyone then one day gave out **** to everyone. Union got involved and he never looked at them again.

It pre dates GDPR tbh.

GDPR tbh is just a fancy way of saying stuff you were entitled to for years is a thing now and someone will be fined more. GDPR isnt new imo.

dreamers75

wiggle16 wrote: »

We definitely had them in the canteen... I suppose whether they are allowed or not is a different story! Myself I don't really see why they shouldn't be.

Our canteen had a balcony as a smoking area, and there were two break ins via that balcony, one of them was during opening hours at gunpoint (so glad I wasn't on break at the time!). Can definitely see the point of having them in staff areas, especially where there is potential access to the building.

CCTV can only be used for:
Security
H and S
Ensuring company policies are being upheld.

The layout of your company suggests A and some of B. Steel grating over the balcony?

But not in the canteen if its a designated leisure area for staff on break.

Ursus Horribilis

PARlance wrote: »

As long as they're aware of the cameras, it's fine. Lots of companies monitor staff, staff phones, internet usage etc.

This sounds much like my understanding of the situation. I've a couple of friends who worked in shops that had CCTV in them. They knew that at any time, someone from HQ could be watching them as they worked. Here's an old court case that involved Dunnes Stores and CCTV cameras they hadn't told their staff about http://www.adarehrm.ie/news/hr-employment-law-news/2014/04/24/dunnes-stores-loses-case-due-to-use-of-cctv-without-staff-s-knowledge

Any time we log into our computers in work, we get a notice saying our internet use is being monitored. I honestly don't know if they watch it that closely but the option is there. I know someone who worked in an office where they were a bit OCD about computer use. They'd print out a hardcopy of your internet use every week/fortnight and you'd have to sign it

wiggle16

dreamers75 wrote: »

CCTV can only be used for:
Security
H and S
Ensuring company policies are being upheld.

The layout of your company suggests A and some of B. Steel grating over the balcony?

But not in the canteen if its a designated leisure area for staff on break.

There was no steel grating over the balcony, it was open. This was a supermarket on the ground level of an apartment complex, pretty modern one.

Well we had CCTV in the canteen anyway. It was a dedicated staff area, maybe it shouldn't have been there after all!

Larbre34

kevinandrew wrote: »

Yep, definitely not allowed in staff only areas such as canteens, locker rooms or offices. The only place my former workplace had it other than the shop floor or store exterior was the warehouse and loading bay, everything else was off limits.

Wrong.

kevinandrew

Larbre34 wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Yep, definitely not allowed in staff only areas such as canteens, locker rooms or offices. The only place my former workplace had it other than the shop floor or store exterior was the warehouse and loading bay, everything else was off limits.

Wrong.

Maybe but my former employers wouldn't install it in staff only areas citing privacy laws, this was company wide policy. The CCTV network was only ever to be used in public areas such as the shop floor or areas where goods were stocked or loaded such as warehouses. We didn't even have it in corridors leading or training rooms. 
Management could watch it 'live' whenever they wanted but it obviously only covered the public areas of the store such as shop floor, entrances, ATMs and the perimeter of the property. The only non-public area covered was the warehouse + loading bay.

tupenny

Anto? Carol?

inhaler16

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/data_protection_at_work/surveillance_of_electronic_communications_in_the_workplace.html

say it all there

Your employer must have a valid reason to use CCTV to monitor your workplace. They must also consider if using CCTV is reasonable. For example, using CCTV to detect intruders, vandals or thieves may be reasonable. However, using CCTV to constantly monitor employees would be intrusive and would only be justified in special circumstances.

Monitoring you without you knowing
Generally, it is against the law to collect someone’s data or monitor them without them knowing – this is called covert surveillance. This is only allowed in very special circumstances where the data will be used to detect, prevent or investigate crime or to apprehend and prosecute offenders.

You should only be monitored covertly if you or your workplace are relevant to a criminal investigation. Covert surveillance must be focused and can only last for a short amount of time. If no evidence is found within a reasonable amount of time, the employer should stop the covert surveillance.

A specific written policy must be put in place to allow for covert surveillance. This policy must detail the purpose and justification for the covert surveillance and provide details of the procedures, measures and safeguards that will be implemented while this type of surveillance is ongoing. The final objective of the covert surveillance should be the involvement of An Garda Síochána or other prosecution authorities who can investigate any alleged criminal offence(s). This should also be added to the policy.

I know a number of pubs and night clubs that have cameras in the toilets (men’s anyway), in no way hidden either so there must be an allowance for this. One is a pub that’s just been renovated recently and a toilet camera was installed so not talking about legacy stuff. Couldn’t see into cubicles obviously faced into the open part of the toilet to see sinks, general open area of bathroom and in a way you could only see men’s backs at the urinals.

suicide_circus

an employer can watch the cameras but cant do anything about standing around talking or playing on your phone. if cash is consistently going missing from the register every time a certain employee is on shift then you are within your rights to monitor the situation.

in ireland the laws are heavily weighted in favour of the employee, same way they are heavily weighted in favour of a tenant over a landlord.

Lackey

‘ I looked back over the cameras’

Says to me he wasn’t watching live, (which is on shaky enough ground)
But came in in the morning and rewound footage to the previous evening to check up on staff.
We’ve been told that’s a definite ‘not allowed’ anyway.

cournioni

People should stop moaning and be accountable for their dossing.

dartboardio

suicide_circus wrote: »

an employer can watch the cameras but cant do anything about standing around talking or playing on your phone. if cash is consistently going missing from the register every time a certain employee is on shift then you are within your rights to monitor the situation.

in ireland the laws are heavily weighted in favour of the employee, same way they are heavily weighted in favour of a tenant over a landlord.

Cant do anything from you standing around for an hour on your phone? Umm they can, you will look lazy and like a dosser therefore they will take a disliking to you and probably find a reason to fire you. No one likes a lazy employee.

When i worked in that cafe a girl i knew as an acquaintance got a job there, we were all cash in hand etc just casual type of work, she done a few shifts and never got asked to come back, it was so awkward when she kept asking me why my boss didnt give her any hours, because all she did was stand around, made no effort to look busy or try prove she was willing or able to work hard etc