Do you need AEB, LKAS and ACC for a 5 star NCAP now?

unkel

Apologies if it was discussed before. I got the impression reading some forum posts (not here) that you need all of the above now or soon to get the full 5 stars in the NCAP

AEB (autonomous emergency braking)
LKAS (lane keep assist)
ACC (active cruise control)

The combination of these 3 is usually called level 2 autonomous driving. Some cars have all of this as standard even in cheaper models, but for most cars these are optional extras or not available at all

Those 3 (and a few others that are now standard on every car) form the "Safety Assist" category which is one of the 4 categories of the NCAP test

Linky

But I can't find any link saying that all the above are now required. Anybody know more about this?

Dravokivich

I thought NCAP was meant to be how the structure of the car responded in a collision?

unkel

No there is a lot more to it than that. Structure of the vehicle itself is pretty much irrelevant. Always has been. See my link above, the other 3 categories are "Vulnerable Road Users", so about the damage the car can do to a pedestrian etc. And "Adult Occupant" and "Child Occupant"

And the goal posts move all the time too, quite aggressively too if my question above is answered positively.

kirving

unkel wrote: »

No there is a lot more to it than that. Structure of the vehicle itself is pretty much irrelevant. Always has been. See my link above, the other 3 categories are "Vulnerable Road Users", so about the damage the car can do to a pedestrian etc. And "Adult Occupant" and "Child Occupant"

And the goal posts move all the time too, quite aggressively too if my question above is answered positively.

I think it's a good step, if indeed it is required.
Well, to a point anyway.

The US (NHTSA) are phasing in a required for all new vehicles to have a reversing camera fitted, as hundreds of people, mostly children I believe, are killed each year by cars reversing.

The issue that I found when I rented a Kia SUV in the US is that they fitted the bare minimum required camera to keep the authorities happy, but no sensors.

Reversing sensors (which cost even more than the most basic camera due to extra wiring, fittings, etc) would actually have been a far safer driving aid.

Manufacturers will implement what their customers are demanding, and if it takes EuroNCAP or their international equivalent to inform the customer, then that's no bad thing.

The best way to survive a crash is to not crash in the first place.

Dravokivich

unkel wrote: »

No there is a lot more to it than that. Structure of the vehicle itself is pretty much irrelevant. Always has been. See my link above, the other 3 categories are "Vulnerable Road Users", so about the damage the car can do to a pedestrian etc. And "Adult Occupant" and "Child Occupant"

And the goal posts move all the time too, quite aggressively too if my question above is answered positively.

Ehm, maybe I didn't put it right. But the design of crumple zones and dissipation of force is pretty much down to the structure of the vehicle and would be relevant for anything impacted by it. Whether it's in or out of the vehicle.

BrianD3

unkel wrote: »

No there is a lot more to it than that. Structure of the vehicle itself is pretty much irrelevant. Always has been. See my link above, the other 3 categories are "Vulnerable Road Users", so about the damage the car can do to a pedestrian etc. And "Adult Occupant" and "Child Occupant"

Structure of the vehicle is very relevant and always has been! This was one of the pages in the page you linked to
https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/offset-deformable-barrier/

And lots more detail at the below link. As can be seen, the structure (A pillar, footwell etc.) affect the rating. Obviously the dummy measurements (which are affected by the sturctural integrity) are also a major part of the rating.
https://cdn.euroncap.com/media/41746/euro-ncap-assessment-protocol-aop-v803.201811061520101516.pdf

I agree though that active safety/driver aids are very important for the rating these days. A 5 star car needs to be an "all rounder". How exactly driver aids affect the rating I don't know. There may be a good summary page, otherwise it would take a lot of reading of the the NCAP documents to figure it all out e.g.
https://www.euroncap.com/en/for-engineers/protocols/safety-assist/

BrianD3

PS - 25 years ago today - 1st May 1994.

At the below link Max Mosley claims that Imola 1994 influenced EuroNCAP which has clearly had a major effect on road car safety. Not sure about the Imola link - but I did give some thought to it today.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-racing-senna-mosley/for-mosley-safety-is-sennas-lasting-legacy-idUKBREA3O03A20140425

unkel

BrianD3 wrote: »

PS - 25 years ago today - 1st May 1994.

Wow. 25th anniversary of Senna's death today.

unkel

So nobody can confirm / deny the question I asked in the thread title?

wonski

unkel wrote: »

So nobody can confirm / deny the question I asked in the thread title?

You could try emailing them if you really want to know. Probably your best option.

unkel

Done. I'll come back here with any replies I get.

dar83

unkel wrote: »

So nobody can confirm / deny the question I asked in the thread title?

I can both confirm AND deny all of the questions asked. :pac:

unkel

Got their reply a few minutes ago:

Euro NCAP wrote:

The Euro NCAP ratings scheme allows for a combination of different technologies for 5 stars but as a rule of thumb, a vehicle has to be fitted with AEB, Lane Support System, Speed Assistance System and SeatBelt Reminders to be able to reach 5 stars.

So the answer to my question is a solid YES

I'm not quite au fait with all the cars currently for sale or about to become for sale in Ireland, but I guess the vast majority does not have the above as standard. So will not get 5 stars if tested.

colm_mcm

I thought they had to test the most basic model for the test.

mickdw

What does speed assistance mean though.
Could be cruise control rather than radar cruise.
Also, I do believe the test is based on standard fit items.

Does a new focus or golf for example come with radar cruise, emergency braking and lane keeping as standard? I very much doubt it.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

What does speed assistance mean though.
Could be cruise control rather than radar cruise.

Yes you're right, but the only benefit of dumb cruise control is that it lets you set a speed, say the speed limit, and it won't go above that. There are many cons. It will drive straight into the car in front of you if that slows down and you weren't paying any attention. You'll probably agree with me from our own experiences, that it is slower to overrule than if you reacted yourself in the first place

If anything I would consider dumb cruise control to be less safe than having no cruise control at all

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

Does a new focus or golf for example come with radar cruise, emergency braking and lane keeping as standard? I very much doubt it.

My 2016 model Hyundai Ioniq EV (€25k) came with all three as standard. But as I said before, I reckon the vast majority of cars, including the Golf and the Focus, do not have it as standard. Probably none of the three. But seeing they are now required for 5 star safety, you will see manufacturers will rapidly change their ways and include all of them within the next few years.

Toyotafanboi

mickdw wrote: »

What does speed assistance mean though.
Could be cruise control rather than radar cruise.
Also, I do believe the test is based on standard fit items.

Does a new focus or golf for example come with radar cruise, emergency braking and lane keeping as standard? I very much doubt it.

To be fair any new Golf bar the Calcutta spec Trendline comes with radar cruise and emergency braking, lane assist is around a €500 option but is standard on higher specs.

Does that mean that different trim levels will get different ncap scores or will it be based on the testing of the lowest trim model only?

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

What does speed assistance mean though.
Could be cruise control rather than radar cruise.

Yes you're right, but the only benefit of dumb cruise control is that it lets you set a speed, say the speed limit, and it won't go above that. There are many cons. It will drive straight into the car in front of you if that slows down and you weren't paying any attention. You'll probably agree with me from our own experiences, that it is slower to overrule than if you reacted yourself in the first place

If anything I would consider dumb cruise control to be less safe than having no cruise control at all

I would agree with all that. I was only questioning the wording really. It's possible they would view standard cruise control as a safety plus due to it possibly resulting in more drivers sitting at the steed limit but as you say, it likely has the opposite effect.