Is it legal for Taxis to video their passengers ?

Irexit

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

Pinch Flat

Irexit wrote: »

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/guidance-landing/guidance-drivers-use-dash-cams

All you need to know here. Not sure if you’ve been following the thread elsewhere, but a taxi driver was assaulted verbally, physically and racially by a drunk / high passenger who also tried to take control of the car. Has the whole lot on video, which might come in handy. Assuming it meets data protection guidelines of course.

Sleeper12

Irexit wrote:

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

It's no different to CCTV inside & outside of shops. It's perfectly legal to record. The tricky part is what it's used for and how it's stored. GDPR covers this.

Plumbthedepths

If it affords the driver protection can't see an issue, also as the footage of the moron attacking the taxi driver does the rounds it might discourage other idiots from behaving in a similar manner.

K.Flyer

Irexit wrote: »

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

Any taxis I have seen with interior cctv usually had a clear warning sticker on the doors. I would imagine once that it is clearly displayed, whether you noticed it or not, you consent by using the vehicle.
For many years my opinion has been that All modes of public transport, including taxis, should have internal cctv for both the protection of the passengers as well as the driver.
Recent events, as shown on another thread, have strengthened my opinion, and given this and other incidents, some far more serious, I would expect it to very soon become the norm.
I would think the legalities of it would probably be similar to cctv in the work place, given the car is technically the drivers workplace.

dartboardio

Perfectly legal.

Love to see the smug look wiped off the scumbags face when he realised the whole thing was recorded and the entire nation seen his true colours.

Caegan

Irexit wrote:

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

Asking for a friend?

hullaballoo

Perfectly lawful to record. Processing it thereafter is governed by GDPR and other factors so online publication may be a technical data breach.

Fully admissible in a criminal court provided its probative value outweighs prejudice to the accused.

Hoboo

I've no problem with video, but audio too? So if I'm on a call they can record it? Or if I'm talking to someone else in the car they can record it?

Irexit

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If it affords the driver protection can't see an issue, also as the footage of the moron attacking the taxi driver does the rounds it might discourage other idiots from behaving in a similar manner.

That was a criminal incident. I have no problem with video recording in Taxis. But audio recording is a step too far. When I go to the supermarket I don't have my private conversations recorded. I always thought it was illegal to record someones voice without telling them.

Plumbthedepths

Irexit wrote:

. I always thought it was illegal to record someones voice without telling them.

It's not . Plus as already pointed out taxis have a little sticker advising you that there is CCTV in operation.

Sleeper12

Hoboo wrote: »

I've no problem with video, but audio too? So if I'm on a call they can record it? Or if I'm talking to someone else in the car they can record it?

The audio recording of the camera wont record anything that the taxi driver wont hear you saying anyway. Again comparing it to CCTV, most CCTV inside shops has audio too.



I think people have become so used to mobile phones that they forget where they are at times. If you want a private phone conversation then you should do it in private.

lawred2

Irexit wrote: »

I notice a lot taxis these days video their passengers. I'm just wondering if this is legal in Ireland ? When I get into a taxi I don't consent to having my conversations recorded.

You're concerned about racists being outed?

Sleeper12

lawred2 wrote: »

You're concerned about racists being outed?

Not defending the passenger in the vidieo you are talking about but it was the drink that got the better of him I think. If the driver was white & fat then he would have been a "Fat Bastred". I think all taxi drivers put up with this on a regular basis. It can be a tough & dangerous job

lawred2

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not defending the passenger in the vidieo you are talking about but it was the drink that got the better of him I think. If the driver was white & fat then he would have been a "Fat Bastred". I think all taxi drivers put up with this on a regular basis. It can be a tough & dangerous job

reads like a defence to me. And a particularly terrible one.

Pinch Flat

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not defending the passenger in the vidieo you are talking about but it was the drink that got the better of him I think. If the driver was white & fat then he would have been a "Fat Bastred". I think all taxi drivers put up with this on a regular basis. It can be a tough & dangerous job

I’m sure his barrister will try and argue this point in court

Sleeper12

lawred2 wrote: »

reads like a defence to me. And a particularly terrible one.

Let me try again.


He is a scumbag. He said some very racist things. I believe if there was a White Irish driver that he still would have been a scumbag, caused trouble & would have called the driver fat, smelly, bald or any other name he could think of. Taxi drivers of all colours put up with this nonsense to some degree on a weekly basis. I'm not making any excuses for him or his remarks ( I have six adopted nieces, an adopted brother & sister, all from Africa). Ive stood up to racism in Dublin for the last 50 years.

Sleeper12

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I’m sure his barrister will try and argue this point in court

He assaulted the driver. It's on video. It's assault with of without the racist remarks. Arguing that it's part of the job won't get him or his barrister very far in court imo

Irexit

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The audio recording of the camera wont record anything that the taxi driver wont hear you saying anyway. Again comparing it to CCTV, most CCTV inside shops has audio too.



I think people have become so used to mobile phones that they forget where they are at times. If you want a private phone conversation then you should do it in private.

CCTV recording audio is only a recent phenomenon. I'm sure most people who not agree to having their private conversations recorded.

Sleeper12

Irexit wrote: »

CCTV recording audio is only a recent phenomenon. I'm sure most people who not agree to having their private conversations recorded.

Audio on CCTV is older than a lot of boards members. I used to own barber shops & hair salons. 25 years ago we had full colour CCTV with audio so it's at least that old. I won a labour court cast due to audio on the CCTV

Plumbthedepths

Irexit wrote:

CCTV recording audio is only a recent phenomenon. I'm sure most people who not agree to having their private conversations recorded.

It's not illegal to record a conversation, whether you agree or not is unimportant. Not sure why anyone has an expectation of privacy in a public place including transport.

Irexit

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not illegal to record a conversation, whether you agree or not is unimportant. Not sure why anyone has an expectation of privacy in a public place including transport.

Is it not illegal to record someone on the phone without telling them ?

Plumbthedepths

Irexit wrote:

Is it not illegal to record someone on the phone without telling them ?

No it's not. Only one party has to be aware a conversation is being recorded. How do you think M McCabe was able to record the 2 high ranking Garda in Mullingar without it being an issue?

Irexit

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No it's not. Only one party has to be aware a conversation is being recorded. How do you think M McCabe was able to record the 2 high ranking Garda in Mullingar without it being an issue?

Maybe in the case of a crime the law doesn't apply.

Plumbthedepths

Irexit wrote:

Maybe in the case of a crime the law doesn't apply.

What part of me telling you it's not illegal can you not comprehend?

Sleeper12

Irexit wrote:

Maybe in the case of a crime the law doesn't apply.

No. You can record all your phone calls. Only one side needs to know that they are being recorded. Only the Gardai can record calls where both sides know nothing about the recording & even then they might need a court order, I'm not certain about that.

Regular calls only one sides needs to know that the call is being recorded

ogsjw

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not defending the passenger in the vidieo you are talking about but it was the drink that got the better of him I think.

Jesus Bike Riding Christ. BEING DRUNK IS NOT AN EXCUSE. DO YOU SHOUT RACIAL SLURS AT PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK? BECAUSE MOST OTHERS JUST GET LOUDER/FRIENDLER. COP ON TO YOURSELF!!!!!!!

TheChizler

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No it's not. Only one party has to be aware a conversation is being recorded.

That and it's down to admissibility in court and things. Nothing to do with being illegal.

Odyssey 2005

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I’m sure his barrister will try and argue this point in court

Who I'm sure we will be paying for

gibgodsman

Completely Legal, same situation as CCTV in your office job, shop etc. The Taxi is their work place, they can record what they like as long as they display "CCTV in Operation"

Sleeper12

ogsjw wrote:

Jesus Bike Riding Christ. BEING DRUNK IS NOT AN EXCUSE. DO YOU SHOUT RACIAL SLURS AT PEOPLE WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK? BECAUSE MOST OTHERS JUST GET LOUDER/FRIENDLER. COP ON TO YOURSELF!!!!!!!

Maybe if you actually read my comments you wouldn't have responded in such a way.

I didn't defend him in any way. I stated that he made racist comments & that he seems to have assaulted the driver. I stated that if the driver was white Irish that this scumbag would have found a reason to shout and insult him. I was pointing out that taxi drivers have to put up with this on a weekly basis.

I'm supprised that my comments offended you in such a way.

jim o doom

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Maybe if you actually read my comments you wouldn't have responded in such a way.

I didn't defend him in any way. I stated that he made racist comments & that he seems to have assaulted the driver. I stated that if the driver was white Irish that this scumbag would have found a reason to shout and insult him. I was pointing out that taxi drivers have to put up with this on a weekly basis.

I'm supprised that my comments offended you in such a way.

Are you surprised that a person with the handlle "OG SJW" overreacted to your comment without reading your clarifications? Isn't overreaction without the full picture to hand, the basic standard response of a true SJW?

Elemonator

hullaballoo wrote: »

Perfectly lawful to record. Processing it thereafter is governed by GDPR and other factors so online publication may be a technical data breach.

Fully admissible in a criminal court provided its probative value outweighs prejudice to the accused.

This, a worthwhile opinion stated on fact and not those sovereign citizen type arguments.

I believe this poster is a barrister judging by the quality his posts on the legal forum so you can be sure this is the best answer you are going to get.

Del2005

Irexit wrote: »

CCTV recording audio is only a recent phenomenon. I'm sure most people who not agree to having their private conversations recorded.

It's not a private conversation if you do it in public.

Sleeper12

jim o doom wrote:

Are you surprised that a person with the handlle "OG SJW" overreacted to your comment without reading your clarifications? Isn't overreaction without the full picture to hand, the basic standard response of a true SJW?

"it was the drink that got the better of him"

How is that defending him? Are you suggesting that he would have carried on like that stone cold sober? No one is denying he made racist comments & is a complete scumbag.

I'll leave it there before I get a smacked bottom from the mods as its the legal forum & this isn't legal conversion

4068ac1elhodqr

Looking from another very similar perspective, would it be ok for any passenger to video their driver?

What minimum would they need to do this
e.g. a badge on clothing/back of phone saying 'cctv in operation'?

Only ask after a recent investigation exposed x130 illegal drivers (using false IDs) in Ireland
https://www.rte.ie/news/crime/2019/0306/1034702-sham-marriages-taxi/
and occasional reports of attacks on passenger, being overcharged or providing an inadequate uninsured service.

Ultimately the future will probably involved everyone being recorded at all times, and at all public locations.
Maybe via wearable technologies such as GoogleGlass or smaller GoPro4k cameras uploading in real-time to the 5G cloud.
As all data would be held in a cloud-service, any recording would be perma-stored.

Get Real

Irexit wrote: »

I always thought it was illegal to record someones voice without telling them.

No, for example you can record a private phone conversation and don't need to inform the person on other end (as long as you are part of the call, ie, you can't record a call between two other individuals, unless it's for criminal purposes and you have a warrant) https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/q-a-what-are-the-legal-implications-1.1740070%3fmode=amp

With regard to audio recording, I don't see an issue with it. People over the last twenty years have come to accept CCTV.

I wouldn't be worried about taking a phone call in a taxi for example, as I would talk on the phone if I didn't mind the taxi driver who is physically beside me being able to listen anyway.

If the taxi man hears about a pair of shoes I bought, I don't care, whether it's audio recorded or not. If I'm in a taxi to the airport, and am telling my friend on the phone that my house is empty for a month, I wouldn't say it beside a taxi driver, audio or not.

I can think of very few instances that audio recording would pick up on "private" conversations in a public place. They wouldn't hear anything more than any nosy member of the public could hear.

ogsjw

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I didn't defend him in any way.

You literally handwaved his conduct because 'he was drunk'.

That is providing some sort of defence.

I pray you have the intelligence to see that.

Never mind your 'legal conversion' whatever that means...

Hoboo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Audio on CCTV is older than a lot of boards members. I used to own barber shops & hair salons. 25 years ago we had full colour CCTV with audio so it's at least that old. I won a labour court cast due to audio on the CCTV

What's the name of the case? Be interested to read it.

Sleeper12

Hoboo wrote: »

What's the name of the case? Be interested to read it.

Case is from around 1998/9 or so. Not a big case. Employee took payment from a client in a barber shop. Last hair cut on a Friday evening. He put the money in his pocket saying "can't let the boss know about this", or something like that. I fired him a few days later. He brought a case against me to the Labour Court saying I fired him because another member of staff said he assaulted her. It was only at this stage that I reported the theft to the police & gave them a copy of the tape. I converted the VHS tape to a camcorder tape & brought it with me. I let him tell his side of the story to the arbitrator & then I played the tape. The arbitrator talked to him on his own outside the room. They came back & he agreed to retract his case if I didn't go any further with the Gardai. That was it . No full hearing or anything like that.


I'm sure someone will call BS to the above story because no one is that stupid to tell a client that they were pocketing the money & then put the money in their pocket while on camera in front of the till, right? All I can say is that I swear it's totally true. He knew the camera was there. There was a monitor on in the staff room showing the live feed.Maybe he didn't know that it had audio but even without the audio it was obvious what he had done. He stole the money & then was stupid enough to bring me to the Labour Court after I told him I wasn't going to go to the Gardai

Del2005

Gia Incalculable Windpipe wrote: »

Looking from another very similar perspective, would it be ok for any passenger to video their driver?

You've as much right to record the driver as they can record you. It's what you do with the recordings where there can be legal issues.

4068ac1elhodqr

Del2005 wrote: »

You've as much right to record the driver as they can record you. It's what you do with the recordings where there can be legal issues.

The primary reason would be insurance, if there was ever an accident.

With a recent operation discovering x130 illegal taxi drivers (using fake/illegal documentation to aquire licence), we can assume their 'public liability' insurance (if acquired) would be invalid too, yes?

So if you're in a RTA (in an unisured/non-compliant car). You're going to need every scrap of evidence in the event of any serious whisplash or injury.

And with no insurance company liable to cover (re:fake documentation), perhaps you'd have to take a long and laborious path with some state or public intermediary body who'd eventually become liable by default for the situation.

Del2005

Gia Incalculable Windpipe wrote: »

The primary reason would be insurance, if there was ever an accident.

With a recent operation discovering x130 illegal taxi drivers (using fake/illegal documentation to aquire licence), we can assume their 'public liability' insurance (if acquired) would be invalid too, yes?

So if you're in a RTA (in an unisured/non-compliant car). You're going to need every scrap of evidence in the event of any serious whisplash or injury.

And with no insurance company liable to cover (re:fake documentation), perhaps you'd have to take a long and laborious path with some state or public intermediary body who'd eventually become liable by default for the situation.

MIBI cover injuries caused by uninsured drivers.