Bull for maiden heifers

squinn2912

So what’s your go to bull for maiden heifers. I have 10 or so picked out to serve. Mixture of breeds some from dairy cross

Never wrestle with pigs

squinn2912 wrote: »

So what’s your go to bull for maiden heifers. I have 10 or so picked out to serve. Mixture of breeds some from dairy cross

Depends on what you want and what your market is and breed of Heifers. Lim, SIM, blond, sh. If they are black lims from dairy you have a good chance of getting coloured calves from blonde with ease of calving and all the benefits lim will give you.

squinn2912

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

Depends on what you want and what your market is and breed of Heifers. Lim, SIM, blond, sh. If they are black lims from dairy you have a good chance of getting coloured calves from blonde with ease of calving and all the benefits lim will give you.

They’re sim from dairy black and white. Big framy heifers then char, lim, bb and Hereford. Probably should look for something with shape?

Sugarbowl

What age are you going breeding them at?

squinn2912

Sugarbowl wrote: »

What age are you going breeding them at?

A mixture. Bit late out to eat a butt of silage so they’ll be 16/18 mths bulling. Most well over 400kgs

tanko

EBY or LM2014.

bogman_bass

GJB, fL22, going to try so Red angus this year

Never wrestle with pigs

As above eby, lm2014, lodge hamlet. Could try a nice short horn on the lim, Ch, and BB girls, some nice roan Heifers off them you would be ate for them or would make lovely cows for yourself.

Hard Knocks

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

As above eby, lm2014, lodge hamlet. Could try a nice short horn on the lim, Ch, and BB girls, some nice roan Heifers off them you would be ate for them or would make lovely cows for yourself.

But a bull would be hard sold

What about goldcard for heifers, he’s 4.6%

jimini0

tanko wrote: »

EBY or LM2014.

EBY all the way. Second heifer in calf to him calved today. No assistance and calves up sucking within the hour. Exactly 283 days which was a help too.

Never wrestle with pigs

Hard Knocks wrote: »

But a bull would be hard sold

What about goldcard for heifers, he’s 4.6%

Ya they are to be fair but if they come ok after the lim BB Ch they might not be to bad. Could put them down as Ch if they came orange 😂

Albert Johnson

Hard Knocks wrote: »

But a bull would be hard sold

What about goldcard for heifers, he’s 4.6%

That's true but it's almost always a trade off between bull and heifer calves when using maternal sires. I agree that Shorthorn would be a nice cross on the coloured heifers as any bull calves should be still reasonably saleable.

Who2

A good limo bull and you should have nice replacements.you need to go at least one generation away from dairy, with shorthorn you have too much of a chance of having pure scrap (but they might have nice markings). ive tried a multitude of mixes here and conclusion goes back to muscely Limo x sim cow, limo x bb cow or pure limo, then stick a good ch bull onto the offspring nearly everything else has a compromise to it.

Albert Johnson

Who2 wrote: »

A good limo bull and you should have nice replacements.you need to go at least one generation away from dairy, with shorthorn you have too much of a chance of having pure scrap (but they might have nice markings). ive tried a multitude of mixes here and conclusion goes back to muscely Limo x sim cow, limo x bb cow or pure limo, then stick a good ch bull onto the offspring nearly everything else has a compromise to it.

I agree that a Shorthorn on the dairy cross heifers could result in some nicely marked but razor backed offspring. However on suckler bred heifers the resulting calves should be fair quality in most cases. Putting Limousin on Limousin cross cows isn't a recipe for replacements in many cases I've found. There are certain bloodlines available within the breed that bring milk to the equation but there few and far between imo, I've seen a lot of LM to LM cross cows that wouldn't rear a kitten never mind a calf. There's good and bad in every breed and it would be wrong to tar all with the one brush. Limousin bulls are very popular around the country so there obviously doing the business for many.

boggerman1

What do u do with a bull that isn't bothered.have him over a yr.bought him last yr to go with the maiden heifers.he got 13 out of the 19.put down the empties to the bad spring of 18,late out and no silage.let him of last Friday week with the milkers.was having doubts about him.was a cow mad bulling on Monday and he basically took all day to do her.this evening while ging out to bring the cows in 3/4 showing signs and he not a bit interested.

Albert Johnson

boggerman1 wrote: »

What do u do with a bull that isn't bothered.have him over a yr.bought him last yr to go with the maiden heifers.he got 13 out of the 19.put down the empties to the bad spring of 18,late out and no silage.let him of last Friday week with the milkers.was having doubts about him.was a cow mad bulling on Monday and he basically took all day to do her.this evening while ging out to bring the cows in 3/4 showing signs and he not a bit interested.

What breed out of interest? I'd definitely look to replacing him unless he starts doing the business very soon. Until then I think it would be prudent to A.I. anything in standing heat until you're confident that there's an active bull with them. If you bought him direct from a breeder I'd mention it to them that you weren't that happy with him and go from there.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I agree that a Shorthorn on the dairy cross heifers could result in some nicely marked but razor backed offspring. However on suckler bred heifers the resulting calves should be fair quality in most cases. Putting Limousin on Limousin cross cows isn't a recipe for replacements in many cases I've found. There are certain bloodlines available within the breed that bring milk to the equation but there few and far between imo, I've seen a lot of LM to LM cross cows that wouldn't rear a kitten never mind a calf. There's good and bad in every breed and it would be wrong to tar all with the one brush. Limousin bulls are very popular around the country so there obviously doing the business for many.

Most of these heifers are either off the dairy girls or rougher growier types picked out because they’d have a drop of milk to them. Getting away from what would be 7/8 or 15/16 lim. If lim is best way to go to produce a decent weanling then our own bull might be best even if he is a touch heavy for heifers. They’re big girls.

Grueller

tanko wrote: »

EBY or LM2014.

Is LM2014 Ewdenvale Ivor? I thought he was gone or was I mistaken?

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

Most of these heifers are either off the dairy girls or rougher growier types picked out because they’d have a drop of milk to them. Getting away from what would be 7/8 or 15/16 lim. If lim is best way to go to produce a decent weanling then our own bull might be best even if he is a touch heavy for heifers. They’re big girls.

If there's plenty of milk in the back breeding of the heifers then LM is probably the way to go especially if you've a suitable LM bull to hand. The only real downfall of using a LM bull on black and white heifers would be black or mousey coloured calves that aren't great sellers as weanlings, of course this is only an issue if selling live. Still I'd find it hard to motivate myself to observe and A.I. heifers if there was a bull available to put with them, especially if working off farm.

tanko

Grueller wrote: »

Is LM2014 Ewdenvale Ivor? I thought he was gone or was I mistaken?

Yeah he's Ivor. I hope he's not gone, am hoping to get some of him soon.

Grueller

tanko wrote: »

Yeah he's Ivor. I hope he's not gone, am hoping to get some of him soon.

Afair my ai man said he got injured and is gone.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

If there's plenty of milk in the back breeding of the heifers then LM is probably the way to go especially if you've a suitable LM bull to hand. The only real downfall of using a LM bull on black and white heifers would be black or mousey coloured calves that aren't great sellers as weanlings, of course this is only an issue if selling live. Still I'd find it hard to motivate myself to observe and A.I. heifers if there was a bull available to put with them, especially if working off farm.

Tons of milk. 5 sim/fr, then the char goes bk to bb/fr and the bb is from a black lim/fr. There’s a lovely red Hereford from a yellow char with lim and Monty breeding. Lim a good cross there?
They were all lookin away inside but very little outside. Thinkin of taking them home, estrumate, one attempt of ai then out with the bull. Time moving on

boggerman1

Albert Johnson wrote: »

What breed out of interest? I'd definitely look to replacing him unless he starts doing the business very soon. Until then I think it would be prudent to A.I. anything in standing heat until you're confident that there's an active bull with them. If you bought him direct from a breeder I'd mention it to them that you weren't that happy with him and go from there.

Holstein Fr.

Hard Knocks

Just out of curiosity what color would you expect from a shorthorn crossed to the following
1) Black & white SIX off a Blackwhitehead first cross from dairy
2) Black LM from a Black LMX first cross to dairy

squinn2912

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Just out of curiosity what color would you expect from a shorthorn crossed to the following
1) Black & white SIX off a Blackwhitehead first cross from dairy
2) Black LM from a Black LMX first cross to dairy

I’d imagine you’d get sprickly cattle maybe a bit of blue in them?

Anto_Meath

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’d imagine you’d get sprickly cattle maybe a bit of blue in them?

Yes you should have a nice blue / grey calf, have had a few here over the years and they are great cattle.. but a sin back on the blue grey sh cow and you will bred top quality cattle.

squinn2912

No one has suggested the aubrac or parthanese just yet. Never tried aubrac but I’m fond of parthanese for a replacement anyhow but not a bull calf

High bike

You can’t go wrong with Aubrac on maidens , short gestation and they calve themselves no bother.

squinn2912

High bike wrote: »

You can’t go wrong with Aubrac on maidens , short gestation and they calve themselves no bother.

But would you have much of a calf? Lot of lads like them but I’m wondering what they give that angus doesn’t

High bike

squinn2912 wrote: »

But would you have much of a calf? Lot of lads like them but I’m wondering what they give that angus doesn’t

Far superior to Angus I think much more shape to them,suppose it depend as on the cow too.They cross well with limo and blue cows

squinn2912

High bike wrote: »

Far superior to Angus I think much more shape to them,suppose it depend as on the cow too.They cross well with limo and blue cows

Then they’d be that horrible colour with dairy crosses. I suppose I’ll just have to hope for alivinh calf first time round and then go from there. Think down the line I’ll try to source an easy calving char bull and they’d cross best with him (when cows not heifers)

Sugarbowl

Anyone ever calf a shorthorn out of pure black AA cows? What do they generally come out like?

Albert Johnson

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Anyone ever calf a shorthorn out of pure black AA cows? What do they generally come out like?

That would be the base of your traditional blue grey cow that were very popular at one time in the not so distant past. As with all maternal type crosses the resulting bull calves won't be as desirable as more terminal breeds however I'd imagine if you registered them as AA it would be a help when selling. Google Murray Grey cattle to see what the Australians have developed after 100 odd years of this exact cross.

Albert Johnson

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Just out of curiosity what color would you expect from a shorthorn crossed to the following
1) Black & white SIX off a Blackwhitehead first cross from dairy
2) Black LM from a Black LMX first cross to dairy

I'd expect any shorthorn sired calves from those type of cows to be dark coloured roan or perhaps black and white with a whitehead as a throwback to the Hereford back breeding. My biggest concern with crossing Shorthorn on dairy bred cows is that you can have dairy genetics on both parental lines which can lead to very nicely marked screws. I'm not saying this will happen with the above but I think bull choice is of crucial importance. You need a very square deep bull if the cow is anyway lacking in scope, of course calving difficulty must then also be considered.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

That would be the base of your traditional blue grey cow that were very popular at one time in the not so distant past. As with all maternal type crosses the resulting bull calves won't be as desirable as more terminal breeds however I'd imagine if you registered them as AA it would be a help when selling. Google Murray Grey cattle to see what the Australians have developed after 100 odd years of this exact cross.

They look like good cattle. That mousy colour that might be against them in marts here but good deep looking cattle.

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd expect any shorthorn sired calves from those type of cows to be dark coloured roan or perhaps black and white with a whitehead as a throwback to the Hereford back breeding. My biggest concern with crossing Shorthorn on dairy bred cows is that you can have dairy genetics on both parental lines which can lead to very nicely marked screws. I'm not saying this will happen with the above but I think bull choice is of crucial importance. You need a very square deep bull if the cow is anyway lacking in scope, of course calving difficulty must then also be considered.

Albert Johnson wrote: »

I'd expect any shorthorn sired calves from those type of cows to be dark coloured roan or perhaps black and white with a whitehead as a throwback to the Hereford back breeding. My biggest concern with crossing Shorthorn on dairy bred cows is that you can have dairy genetics on both parental lines which can lead to very nicely marked screws. I'm not saying this will happen with the above but I think bull choice is of crucial importance. You need a very square deep bull if the cow is anyway lacking in scope, of course calving difficulty must then also be considered.

That’s the trouble with messing like that. When all is said and done I’m back with the lim bull. If I catch a few of them I might experiment a bit. Maybe try the whitehead with a shorthorn or parthanese but the dairy girls need something with shape. For the joke of it I might ask what blondes are in the flask

squinn2912

Long way back to this thread but the first of my sim dairy cross heifers calved 20 mins ago. Nice blue bull calf and she has enough milk to fill a bulk tank

Hard Knocks

squinn2912 wrote: »

Long way back to this thread but the first of my sim dairy cross heifers calved 20 mins ago. Nice blue bull calf and she has enough milk to fill a bulk tank

Good man
Any problems?

squinn2912

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Good man
Any problems?

No bother at all she spat him out

High bike

squinn2912 wrote: »

No bother at all she spat him out

some bag of milk for a heifer
“

tanko

Ya may get three more calves for her.
Would you not be worried that a heifer like that will give more bother than one with too little milk?

squinn2912

tanko wrote: »

Ya may get three more calves for her.
Would you not be worried that a heifer like that will give more bother than one with too little milk?

You’d have ones with less in parlours but after a few weeks the milk might come off her a bit. I’ve a he heifer with an eggcupful so I tried her calf but she wouldn’t suck. I’ll try again tomorrow. There’s a stronger orphan calf and I might let him at her in a couple of days. Try to let her own calf have the bieslin

Hard Knocks

squinn2912 wrote: »

No bother at all she spat him out

Gone off using LM on maidens as gestation too long. Using SA this year & tempted with BB

squinn2912

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Gone off using LM on maidens as gestation too long. Using SA this year & tempted with BB

Yea well I don’t know if I’d bother with them for ai but as the sweep year. Thinkin sa this year perhaps. Think it’s on this thread I was advised against bb but this calf is small and she threw him out.

squinn2912

Got this wee girl to take the pressure off that elder. Great job as her mum hasn’t enough so I’m hoping they’ll double suck. Very surprised she has no milk as she comes from loads. Don’t think I’ll keep her. Would you keep her calf?

Hard Knocks

squinn2912 wrote: »

Got this wee girl to take the pressure off that elder. Great job as her mum hasn’t enough so I’m hoping they’ll double suck. Very surprised she has no milk as she comes from loads. Don’t think I’ll keep her. Would you keep her calf?

Bit of Soya bean mixed through dairy nut

Millionaire only not

squinn2912 wrote: »

Long way back to this thread but the first of my sim dairy cross heifers calved 20 mins ago. Nice blue bull calf and she has enough milk to fill a bulk tank

A child’s one I take it !