How can a gay person not know or not be sure that they are gay

John2136

I don't understand it at all, people in their 20s only discovering that they are gay how is it possible? You look at a girl feel sexually attracted to her or you look at a man and feel sexually attracted to her how the f could you not know? <Snip>


Mod Note: The use of the R word in any context is completely unacceptable.

SmartinMartin

You look at a girl feel sexually attracted to her or you look at a man and feel sexually attracted to her

Classic Freudian slip.

Atlantic Dawn

A horn test would indicate what they are attracted to, if it's both male and female they would be bi.

Qrt

People figure things out at different times, whether it be due to upbringing, religion, or just personality.

But I’m guessing you’re not really interested in a proper answer judging by that last remark.

John2136

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

A horn test would indicate what they are attracted to, if it's both male and female they would be bi.

Exactly so how would you know not be sure or not know, tbh I think being gay is a lifestyle choice a lot of the time.

Qrt

John2136 wrote: »

tbh I think being gay is a lifestyle choice a lot of the time.

Oh jaysus, yes I definitely chose to disadvantage myself of course!!!:):):)

John2136

Qrt wrote: »

Oh jaysus, yes I definitely chose to disadvantage myself of course!!!:):):)

Did I say everyone?

Ten of Swords

John2136 wrote: »

Are they retarded?

John2136 wrote: »

tbh I think being gay is a lifestyle choice a lot of the time.

Mod - Any further comments along these lines and cards will be handed out.

John2136 think long and hard before your next post in this forum

John2136

Qrt wrote: »

People figure things out at different times, whether it be due to upbringing, religion, or just personality.

But I’m guessing you’re not really interested in a proper answer judging by that last remark.

As someone else said a horn test, you look at a man feel sexually attracted to him or you look at a woman feel sexually attracted to her.

What are you talking about figuring out things at different times you would want to be very slow to not know.

Mod edit


Red carded. You were warned.

Rick_

Everyone has different lives and experiences John and it isn't up to you or anyone else to judge them on how they feel or when they feel it. It's never as simple and clean cut as you would like it to be.

Fiery mutant

Well John, perhaps you should look at your own attitude and think, “will my children feel comfortable talking to me about something like this?”

When some sections of society still feel the need to label people (like your retarded remark) those people who are having a hard time trying to find their way in life, it does not make things any easier for them, it makes it harder.

spurious

People tell us 'it's a phase'.

eviltwin

Don't underestimate the power of social conditioning.

I'm bi, my first sexual relationships were with women, and I was told it wasn't really how I felt, I was just experimenting etc

When I eventually settled down with a man there were a few "I told you so" reactions because obviously if a woman ends up with a man she has to be straight

I've always fancied women though and it's only in the last few years I've fully identified as bisexual and I'm now in my 40's

And it's not something I choose. I can't help who I am attracted to and it's not a big deal anyway.

John2136

PFMC84 wrote: »

Everyone has different lives and experiences John and it isn't up to you or anyone else to judge them on how they feel or when they feel it. It's never as simple and clean cut as you would like it to be.

Still no one is giving me an explanation as it defies logic.

John2136

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Well John, perhaps you should look at your own attitude and think, “will my children feel comfortable talking to me about something like this?”

When some sections of society still feel the need to label people (like your retarded remark) those people who are having a hard time trying to find their way in life, it does not make things any easier for them, it makes it harder.

If my son came to me at 20 years old asking am I gay I would be seriously disappointed, surely he could figure that out himself.

I would show him a picture of a woman and a picture of a man and that should answer his question.

John2136

eviltwin wrote: »

Don't underestimate the power of social conditioning.

I'm bi, my first sexual relationships were with women, and I was told it wasn't really how I felt, I was just experimenting etc

When I eventually settled down with a man there were a few "I told you so" reactions because obviously if a woman ends up with a man she has to be straight

I've always fancied women though and it's only in the last few years I've fully identified as bisexual and I'm now in my 40's

And it's not something I choose. I can't help who I am attracted to and it's not a big deal anyway.

I was more referring to actual gay people as maybe you could only start feeling attracted to men later in life.

In my early teens I used look at boys that I felt were better looking than me with pangs of jealousy, as I wanted to be more like them. I also wanted a girlfriend and used to look at girls who I thought were good looking. In my late teens, romantic attraction to women was still there but it hadn't developed into any sexual attraction, whereupon I realised that those feelings of jealousy I had towards guys wasn't just wanting to be more like them; it was wanting to be with them (or someone like them).

I no longer identify as bisexual as I realised my feelings for women aren't sexual, but I still have had romantic attractions to women and don't rule out that possibility happening again. But it took me until my late teens/early twenties to figure any of this out. I was a slow developer in some respects sexually (I was 16 before I ever masturbated, for example! ); I can't say why, because my family is not homophobic or strongly religious or anything. Whatever brain chemistry I have just led things to happen the way they did.

People are different, they develop differently and figure things out at different paces. Some people always knew they were gay from a very early age, others don't. It's just human nature.

Annasopra

Op banned for a day from the forum for continuous trolling

Its an interesting discussion though so please feel free to continue contributions

Heebie

My first memory of finding another male attractive was when I was 4.5 years old. He was 6. I had no idea what the emotions I was feeling were. I was in my 30's and out of the closet 15-20 years by the time I realised what it was that I'd felt about them.

I was about 13 when I began to realise I liked other guys.
I was 17 before I allowed myself to believe it. In the interim I dated a few girls just to try and prove to myself and others that I wasn't the "f" word people had been calling me for years already. I wasn't "pretending" to be straight. I was lying, very effectively, to everyone around me, including myself. For the most part I believed that lie while refusing to believe there truth... until one day when I woke up, looked at myself in the mirror, and said out loud to myself: "you're gay and you need to deal with that fact"

As humans, we often try to control what we believe by intellectual means, rather than accept what we actually believe. Maybe it seems more comfortable to "look normal" than to be oneself?

John2136

Heebie wrote: »

My first memory of finding another male attractive was when I was 4.5 years old. He was 6. I had no idea what the emotions I was feeling were. I was in my 30's and out of the closet 15-20 years by the time I realised what it was that I'd felt about them.

I was about 13 when I began to realise I liked other guys.
I was 17 before I allowed myself to believe it. In the interim I dated a few girls just to try and prove to myself and others that I wasn't the "f" word people had been calling me for years already. I wasn't "pretending" to be straight. I was lying, very effectively, to everyone around me, including myself. For the most part I believed that lie while refusing to believe there truth... until one day when I woke up, looked at myself in the mirror, and said out loud to myself: "you're gay and you need to deal with that fact"

As humans, we often try to control what we believe by intellectual means, rather than accept what we actually believe. Maybe it seems more comfortable to "look normal" than to be oneself?

I still don't understand, maybe romantic attraction would be easy to explain my question but surely sexual attraction would give it away?

Or did you not feel sexual attraction until your late teens?

John2136

Heebie wrote: »

My first memory of finding another male attractive was when I was 4.5 years old. He was 6. I had no idea what the emotions I was feeling were. I was in my 30's and out of the closet 15-20 years by the time I realised what it was that I'd felt about them.

I was about 13 when I began to realise I liked other guys.
I was 17 before I allowed myself to believe it. In the interim I dated a few girls just to try and prove to myself and others that I wasn't the "f" word people had been calling me for years already. I wasn't "pretending" to be straight. I was lying, very effectively, to everyone around me, including myself. For the most part I believed that lie while refusing to believe there truth... until one day when I woke up, looked at myself in the mirror, and said out loud to myself: "you're gay and you need to deal with that fact"

As humans, we often try to control what we believe by intellectual means, rather than accept what we actually believe. Maybe it seems more comfortable to "look normal" than to be oneself?

Maybe I'm getting a better understanding am I right to say gay people don't feel sexual attraction the same way as straight people do?

They feel attraction more like women as in you don't really feel sexual attraction until you start to really like someone?

Mr.Frame

John2136 wrote: »

Exactly so how would you know not be sure or not know, tbh I think being gay is a lifestyle choice a lot of the time.

Eh, NO, it is not.

John2136

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Eh, NO, it is not.

I said a lot of the time not all

Mr.Frame

John2136 wrote: »

Maybe I'm getting a better understanding am I right to say gay people don't feel sexual attraction the same way as straight people do?

What kind of a comment is that ??
So please tell us in what way is sexual attraction different for straight people versus gay people.

John2136 wrote: »

They feel attraction more like women as in you don't really feel sexual attraction until you start to really like someone?

Another bizarre comment,
I smell a troll

John2136

Mr.Frame wrote: »

What kind of a comment is that ??
So please tell us in what way is sexual attraction different for straight people versus gay people.



Another bizarre comment,
I smell a troll

I'm not trolling I am trying to under how someone could not know they are gay as a horn test would surely tell you if you are gay or straight.

Mr.Frame

John2136 wrote: »

I said a lot of the time not all

And youre wrong.

John2136

Mr.Frame wrote: »

And youre wrong.

How can you be so sure?

John2136

Mr.Frame wrote: »

And youre wrong.

Just like people who pretend to be straight there are probably gay people who pretend to be gay.

eviltwin

John2136 wrote: »

I'm not trolling I am trying to under how someone could not know they are gay as a horn test would surely tell you if you are gay or straight.

The horn test?

Ten of Swords

Mod - John2136 do not post in this thread anymore. Your question has been answered, see below.

If you wish to continue posting in this forum please read the charter and be respectful, the same as we'd ask of anybody. But as of right now, you're done.

Deleted User wrote: »

People are different, they develop differently and figure things out at different paces. Some people always knew they were gay from a very early age, others don't. It's just human nature.

Fiery mutant

John2136 wrote: »

Maybe I'm getting a better understanding am I right to say gay people don't feel sexual attraction the same way as straight people do?

I don’t know how someone is supposed to answer that question. As I am straight, I couldn’t say how gay people feel attraction, and i’m Pretty sure a gay person would probably say the same thing.

People find attraction in different ways, it could be through a physical liking, or an attraction to a particular trait in a person, or any multitude of things.

I guess if your talking just about physical sexual attraction, then i’d guess it is the same for anyone, gay or straight.

Mr.Frame

John2136 wrote: »

I'm not trolling I am trying to under how someone could not know they are gay as a horn test would surely tell you if you are gay or straight.

"IF" you are not trolling, you would accept LGBT people telling you whats what ,

Instead you came out with this "tbh I think being gay is a lifestyle choice a lot of the time."

You were told its not and replied "A lot of the time not all".

youre a troll and show leave this debate now as you are being quite insulting and offensive to all LGBT people

tayto lover

Heebie wrote: »

My first memory of finding another male attractive was when I was 4.5 years old. He was 6. I had no idea what the emotions I was feeling were. I was in my 30's and out of the closet 15-20 years by the time I realised what it was that I'd felt about them.

I was about 13 when I began to realise I liked other guys.
I was 17 before I allowed myself to believe it. In the interim I dated a few girls just to try and prove to myself and others that I wasn't the "f" word people had been calling me for years already. I wasn't "pretending" to be straight. I was lying, very effectively, to everyone around me, including myself. For the most part I believed that lie while refusing to believe there truth... until one day when I woke up, looked at myself in the mirror, and said out loud to myself: "you're gay and you need to deal with that fact"

As humans, we often try to control what we believe by intellectual means, rather than accept what we actually believe. Maybe it seems more comfortable to "look normal" than to be oneself?

For God sake how could you find a man attractive at four and a half years of age? That just sounds silly.
It’s an interesting discussion though.

John2136

Mod - Banned

You were warned

Qrt

For what it's worth, I had a "crush" on a girl in my class in Senior Infants, I actually dreamed of marriage and kids and the like, nuclear family setup.

Nowadays I'm in my early twenties, enjoying responsible promiscuity whilst being slightly emotionally unsteady, chugging through college and getting into cycling.

Oh, and I'm gay. No females on my radar these days!

Manion

tayto lover wrote: »

For God sake how could you find a man attractive at four and a half years of age? That just sounds silly.
It’s an interesting discussion though.

At what age do people start finding other people attractive? I recall having early childhood crushes. An ex work colleague swore he remembers being attracted to his infant school teacher.

tayto lover

Manion wrote: »

At what age do people start finding other people attractive? I recall having early childhood crushes. An ex work colleague swore he remembers being attracted to his infant school teacher.

“ a crush”?? In infant class?? What do you define as a crush?
Surely “a crush” is some kind of sexual thing like a physical attraction and a child in infants class cannot experience that in my opinion.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

Even adult crushes aren't necessarily sexual

Heebie

John2136 wrote:

I still don't understand, maybe romantic attraction would be easy to explain my question but surely sexual attraction would give it away?

Sexual attraction did give it away.. I still managed to convince myself that's not what it was. It was probably easier because I'd never put words to the feelings.

John2136 wrote:

Or did you not feel sexual attraction until your late teens?

No.. I was 4 and a half. First weekend of September 1972.

Heebie

John2136 wrote:

Maybe I'm getting a better understanding am I right to say gay people don't feel sexual attraction the same way as straight people do?

I only know how I experience it. Having never been straight, I can't compare.

John2136 wrote:

They feel attraction more like women as in you don't really feel sexual attraction until you start to really like someone?

That's called pansexuality, isn't it?
I can feel sexual attraction to someone instantly. There's no rhyme nor reason to it. I definitely don't have to like someone first. There are even people that I dislike as people that are ridiculously hot to me.
So.. I don't think my experiences would support that idea.

Heebie

tayto lover wrote:

For God sake how could you find a man attractive at four and a half years of age? That just sounds silly. It’s an interesting discussion though.

The same feelings I get now when I look at an attractive male are what I felt then. The same butterflies in the tummy, trembling of my hands, breaking out in a sweat, tingling sensations in my nether regions.... all of it.
The intensity of feeling all that at such a young age is probably be why I can remember precisely when it happened and do much detail about it. I can remember the second time I felt that way as well.. 8 months later.
I don't think it's all that "normal" for those feelings to surface so early. I think when I began to realise what those feelings meant around age 13 is probably closer to when most really start to feel that.. it's just not when I did.

tayto lover

[QUOTE=Heebie;109995463



No.. I was 4 and a half. First weekend of September 1972.[/QUOTE]

Codding yourself.
A 4.5 year old cannot feel a sexual attraction. Maybe you meant 14.5?

pl4ichjgy17zwd

Heebie wrote:

That's called pansexuality, isn't it?.

That's called demisexuality. Pansexuality is attraction regardless of gender.

Qrt

Deborah Helpless Sky wrote: »

That's called demisexuality. Pansexuality is attraction regardless of gender.

True, but the actual existence of demisexuality is debated. Pansexuality is pretty much like bisexuality, but it includes the whole gender spectrum as opposed to the binary. Demisexuality to many is just a preference, but as I said, it is hotly debated.

pl4ichjgy17zwd

Qrt wrote:

True, but the actual existence of demisexuality is debated. Pansexuality is pretty much like bisexuality, but it includes the whole gender spectrum as opposed to the binary. Demisexuality to many is just a preference, but as I said, it is hotly debated.

I figure the sexual-asexual line is a spectrum as much as gender or sexuality is so it makes sense to me that there would be a word or words that describe different points along it.

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

In my early teens I used look at boys that I felt were better looking than me with pangs of jealousy, as I wanted to be more like them. I also wanted a girlfriend and used to look at girls who I thought were good looking. In my late teens, romantic attraction to women was still there but it hadn't developed into any sexual attraction, whereupon I realised that those feelings of jealousy I had towards guys wasn't just wanting to be more like them; it was wanting to be with them (or someone like them).

I no longer identify as bisexual as I realised my feelings for women aren't sexual, but I still have had romantic attractions to women and don't rule out that possibility happening again. But it took me until my late teens/early twenties to figure any of this out. I was a slow developer in some respects sexually (I was 16 before I ever masturbated, for example! ); I can't say why, because my family is not homophobic or strongly religious or anything. Whatever brain chemistry I have just led things to happen the way they did.

People are different, they develop differently and figure things out at different paces. Some people always knew they were gay from a very early age, others don't. It's just human nature.

This surprises me to be honest. I'm assuming you are male? I mean when I was 16 I don't think that any of my peers didn't already have a pretty well developed idea of what they were into.

If you are male and you NEVER masturbated between the age of 0 and 16, I just don't find that plausible. I mean how was your hormonal development otherwise? did you grow in stature and gain body hair? 16 year olds are biologically adults, if not legally and socially.

P.S. I'm not having a go, I just find that a little difficult to comprehend.

cgcsb

John2136 wrote: »

Maybe I'm getting a better understanding am I right to say gay people don't feel sexual attraction the same way as straight people do?

They feel attraction more like women as in you don't really feel sexual attraction until you start to really like someone?

No, you only need look at gay male culture for a moment to observe that it is hyper masculine in it's attitude towards sex.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

This surprises me to be honest. I'm assuming you are male? I mean when I was 16 I don't think that any of my peers didn't already have a pretty well developed idea of what they were into.

If you are male and you NEVER masturbated between the age of 0 and 16, I just don't find that plausible. I mean how was your hormonal development otherwise? did you grow in stature and gain body hair? 16 year olds are biologically adults, if not legally and socially.

P.S. I'm not having a go, I just find that a little difficult to comprehend.

Yeah I am male, and my physical development was totally normal; growth spurts, voice breaking, body and facial hair, wet dreams etc. all happened around age 12-13. I just didn't have much of a libido, for some reason, and while I probably did "touch myself" on occasion it wasn't until age 16 that I ever "properly" masturbated (i.e. ejaculated).

I wanted a girlfriend more for the sake of not wanting to be seen as a "frigid", I never really had any great desire to see a girl naked or anything. But at that age I didn't have those feelings towards boys either; I knew of other people (a cousin a few years older than me, plus a friend of a friend who was closer to my age) who were gay but it never even occurred to me that I might be gay until my very late teens. I never thought being gay was wrong or weird or disgusting, or anything like that, but I just didn't think it applied to me.

Then I had my first shift with a guy at age 19, and my first boyfriend at age 20, and so it was fairly clear that whatever my sexuality was it certainly wasn't hetero! :P

cgcsb

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I am male, and my physical development was totally normal; growth spurts, voice breaking, body and facial hair, wet dreams etc. all happened around age 12-13. I just didn't have much of a libido, for some reason, and while I probably did "touch myself" on occasion it wasn't until age 16 that I ever "properly" masturbated (i.e. ejaculated).

I wanted a girlfriend more for the sake of not wanting to be seen as a "frigid", I never really had any great desire to see a girl naked or anything. But at that age I didn't have those feelings towards boys either; I knew of other people (a cousin a few years older than me, plus a friend of a friend who was closer to my age) who were gay but it never even occurred to me that I might be gay until my very late teens. I never thought being gay was wrong or weird or disgusting, or anything like that, but I just didn't think it applied to me.

Then I had my first shift with a guy at age 19, and my first boyfriend at age 20, and so it was fairly clear that whatever my sexuality was it certainly wasn't hetero! :P

A wet dream is masturbating and ejaculating when you're asleep/half asleep.

cgcsb

I find it an interesting topic because I have a relative who claims he didn't know he was gay until age 40. I'd buy that denial can do all sorts of tings, but he did surely know at age 40. I can't speak for the ladies because I don't know, but certainly from a male perspective, there isn't much scope for not knowing.

Dial Hard

cgcsb wrote:

A wet dream is masturbating and ejaculating when you're asleep/half asleep.

Not quite. The ejaculation is spontaneous, there's no masturbation involved.