What charger would people recommend for commercial building

LeBash

I am looking to install 2 x 22kw 3 phase chargers in the job.

I have a Kona EV but the idea is when someone has a car that will charge at 22kw, it will work.

Looked at the Juicebox, Zappi and ABL.

Any other recommendations?

antoinolachtnai

LeBash wrote: »

I am looking to install 2 x 22kw 3 phase chargers in the job.

I have a Kona EV but the idea is when someone has a car that will charge at 22kw, it will work.

Looked at the Juicebox, Zappi and ABL.

Any other recommendations?

The thing to understand is really how much electricity you can draw at once from your premises’ electricity system. 44kW is probably quite a lot, depending on the type of premises.

The most important thing may be that the charging system can manage the output so as to avoid tripping a breaker or blowing a fuse or attracting penal ESBn charges when two cars are charging simultaneously. This may dictate what you choose.

Dont be at yourself

What's the point of the charger? If it's for emoyees to charge during their 9-5, just stick in a 7kw Type 2.

If it's for customers, consider how long they would stay on premises -- if it's a cafe or supermarket, you might want a 50kw DC, if it's a restaurant, a 22kw DC would be plenty.

LeBash

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The thing to understand is really how much electricity you can draw at once from your premises’ electricity system. 44kW is probably quite a lot, depending on the type of premises.

The most important thing may be that the charging system can manage the output so as to avoid tripping a breaker or blowing a fuse or attracting penal ESBn charges when two cars are charging simultaneously. This may dictate what you choose.

We have a 125 a 3 phase supply and minimal other draw, few PCs and 6 1.25kw heaters, small lighting load, so it a problem.

The 44kw would be split under 15kw per phase when on.

LeBash

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

What's the point of the charger? If it's for emoyees to charge during their 9-5, just stick in a 7kw Type 2.

If it's for customers, consider how long they would stay on premises -- if it's a cafe or supermarket, you might want a 50kw DC, if it's a restaurant, a 22kw DC would be plenty.

It will be used eventually for Reps cars (quick turn around) but I assume a 22kw DC charger would be crazy money. I got just 1 quote of 15k already from swiss company where a Juicebox for example is C. 900 euro.

antoinolachtnai

So it is a 28 kVA (or thereabouts supply across the three phases?

a.

n97 mini

LeBash wrote: »

We have a 125 a 3 phase supply and minimal other draw, few PCs and 6 1.25kw heaters, small lighting load, so it a problem.

The 44kw would be split under 15kw per phase when on.

Put in some 7.2kw CPs. Vast majority of cars cannot get extra benefit from 22kw (three phase) CPs, and will charge at 7.2kw or less anyway.

If you're handy, look at OpenEVSE.

Shefwedfan

Not sure why you would need such big chargers. Most reps best case scenario will do how many km a day? So if you are going for 64kWh cars the small top up are perfect

Also if like my company you are restricted in terms of the amount of km/hours per day in car then again top ups will work.....

A couple of 7kW chargers would be more than enough in my view

unkel

LeBash wrote: »

It will be used eventually for Reps cars (quick turn around)

What cars are the reps cars or what will they be when you switch to EVs?

You won't get a quick turn around from a 22kW AC charger for most EVs as most can only charge at 7.2kW on an AC charger

LeBash

Theres a little confusion here. The cars aren't bought and wont be happening soon. The owner is trying to future proof and reckons 22kw will happen in the future. Quicker charges, people are more productive, he saves diesel money.

We moved in 2 months ago and while we are doing the work, he wants the chargers put in, so it's not a disruption in a year or 2.

We have 2 x 3phase supplies fused at 125 amp per phase coming in, no idea why, I assume it was once 2 buildings but they are both active, 2 boards, 2 switch fuses.

We have moved almost everything off 1 supply so there is tons of head room to allow for 2 x 22kw chargers.

Honestly, I said to pay the guys an extra few bones a week and pay for the 7 kw chargers to be installed in their homes or meter them and pay them.

He might not always be right, but hes always the boss.

Back to the chargers, I'm not so sure with the circumstances an app would be of much benefit, or maybe I'm wrong?

unkel

You're not helping the confusion situation here

What kind of quick turn around are you (your boss) looking to accomplish? If you need to charge the cars at 22kW you will need to go DC as 22kW AC will NOT be the norm going forward in the next 5-10 years.

LeBash

unkel wrote: »

You're not helping the confusion situation here

What kind of quick turn around are you (your boss) looking to accomplish? If you need to charge the cars at 22kW you will need to go DC as 22kW AC will NOT be the norm going forward in the next 5-10 years.

Not criticising, I should have explained from the start the load wasn't a problem. I caused the confusion.

I have no idea what will be the norm in 5-10 years in a general commercial premises. Im fairly sure will not be wireless charging as the ground cost will be fairly big unless it's a new build. I suppose any car that has a type 2 plug will charge at 7 or 22kw, so a 22 kw covers both.

DC is not currently a realistic option at 15 grand for 1 charger unless someone has seen a far lower price on one. I seen a really nice ac 5 pin 32a CEE to DC converter tonight but even that is 12 grand.

The Juicebox C is approx 900, ABL (cant remember model) is 1200, those prices are more realistic. Are there any others around people have seen or have a bit of experience with. The Juicebox seemed to get a few good reviews around here, seen the ABL myself in Germany and the build quality looks great.

antoinolachtnai

LeBash wrote: »

Theres a little confusion here. The cars aren't bought and wont be happening soon. The owner is trying to future proof and reckons 22kw will happen in the future. Quicker charges, people are more productive, he saves diesel money.

We moved in 2 months ago and while we are doing the work, he wants the chargers put in, so it's not a disruption in a year or 2.

We have 2 x 3phase supplies fused at 125 amp per phase coming in, no idea why, I assume it was once 2 buildings but they are both active, 2 boards, 2 switch fuses.

We have moved almost everything off 1 supply so there is tons of head room to allow for 2 x 22kw chargers.

Honestly, I said to pay the guys an extra few bones a week and pay for the 7 kw chargers to be installed in their homes or meter them and pay them.

He might not always be right, but hes always the boss.

Back to the chargers, I'm not so sure with the circumstances an app would be of much benefit, or maybe I'm wrong?

Be sure to check the MIC on the bill. Just because you have those fuses doesn't mean you have 172 kVA of MIC. If you exceed the MIC you will incur penalty charges. (This level of MIC will also cost you a lot in standing charges and PSO.)

Shefwedfan

Batteries are going to stop now till solid state in 7 years time. A couple of 7kW charger will do the job

You would be better with multiple 7kW if you have a large amount of seller than potentially 1 or 2 slightly faster ones

How do the cars get charged at night? Do the people bring home?

n97 mini

LeBash wrote: »

I suppose any car that has a type 2 plug will charge at 7 or 22kw, so a 22 kw covers both.

Only the Renault Zoe can use 22kw.

punisher5112

Why not have wiring and MCB units in place and worry about charge point when needed.

KCross

LeBash wrote: »

I am looking to install 2 x 22kw 3 phase chargers in the job.

I have a Kona EV but the idea is when someone has a car that will charge at 22kw, it will work.

Looked at the Juicebox, Zappi and ABL.

Any other recommendations?

From your posts there are a few requirements working against each other and I think a few things might need to be explained.... apologies if you know this stuff already but just to be sure...

"All" EV's have high power DC charge ports that can take 50kW+.

"All" EV's have low power AC ports that can vary from 3.6kW, 7kW, 11kW with a few rare exceptions that can take 22kW and 43kW (Zoe only and is as good as a dead standard at this point).

You've mentioned that you want a quick turnaround for rep vehicles.
"Quick" is relative here so you need to be more specific. Are we talking 30-60mins (i.e. lunch hour) or some other time frame?

If its 1hr you are in DC territory and likely to only be able to charge one, maybe two, cars at a time.... which begs another question, how many vehicles do you expect to support in the future?... 2,5,10?

Anything in AC land is not quick by my definition. Quick is really in the DC side and thats just not viable, generally speaking, for a company to be installing as the units and install costs are high.

That realistically leaves you with AC charging.
As said, the vast majority of EV's today only support <7kW AC charging and there are a few cars due out in the next few years that will offer 3ph 11kW as an option.


So, I think this is where you need to focus your mind... 3ph 11kW(32A) charging (which will also support everything below that).... i.e. pretty much every EV out there today and new EV's coming down the track.

Here is a Rolec 3ph 22kW AC wall mount charger which will give you 2x11kW AC charging.... i.e. two cars can charge simultaneously at upto 11kW each.
http://assets.rolecserv.com/files/products_document/645e48d232223495e7dcd6931b5e5c3b/SecuriCharge%20EV%20Charge.Online%20(Ethernet)%20Superfast%20Data%20Sheet%20-%2002.pdf

Here is the pedestal version which I know to be about the €1200 mark to buy:
http://assets.rolecserv.com/files/products_document/d425546534fea064105a59e15f430c2b/AutoCharge%20EV%20Token%20Mech%20PAYG%20Superfast%20Data%20Sheet%20-%2002.pdf


You could also go for something like a 20kW DC charger but I suspect the costs would be much higher than the likes of the Rolec above so then you would have to balance your budget against that and decide is one or two 20kW DC chargers better or worse for your company relative to maybe 3-4 times as many AC chargers at the lower 11kW rate.

Shefwedfan

In terms of cost and maintenance. It would be better for the company to buy cars with larger batteries so they require less charging than buying lots of cars with smaller batteries and then having to install multiple high speed chargers. The maintenance on these chargers is not cheaper.

Didnt Nissan post a broken plug was like 2-3k to repair.

unkel

n97 mini wrote: »

Only the Renault Zoe can use 22kw.

And the Teslas with the optional dual charger