Track day advice (Mondello)

Parapara2017

I'm thinking about tracking my car at Mondello, I've never done it before so I'm looking for some beginner advice.

The car is my daily driver and has stock everything, it's very recently been serviced (within the month) has two new tyres on the front (FWD) and about 3mm and 5mm on the rear. Brake pads etc are stock. Car has just over 7k km. Car is a Civic type R.

I'm planning on getting an instructor there and only doing half a day (as I don't want to completely wear through my parts)

What do I need to know / do? Can a helmet be rented or will I need to buy one and how does track day insurance work?

Anything else I should know / do / prepare?

swarlb

Parapara2017 wrote: »

I'm thinking about tracking my car at Mondello, I've never done it before so I'm looking for some beginner advice.

The car is my daily driver and has stock everything, it's very recently been serviced (within the month) has two new tyres on the front (FWD) and about 3mm and 5mm on the rear. Brake pads etc are stock. Car has just over 7k km. Car is a Civic type R.

I'm planning on getting an instructor there and only doing half a day (as I don't want to completely wear through my parts)

What do I need to know / do? Can a helmet be rented or will I need to buy one and how does track day insurance work?

Anything else I should know / do / prepare?

Best thing to do is ring Mondello and ask them, they should have all the answers as regards instruction, helmets and insurance.

Tacitus Kilgore

Talk to the lads in trackdays.ie, they run really good days in mondello with lunches etc. included and sometimes a little bit of free tuition!

Tacitus Kilgore

Parapara2017 wrote: »

I'm thinking about tracking my car at Mondello, I've never done it before so I'm looking for some beginner advice.

The car is my daily driver and has stock everything, it's very recently been serviced (within the month) has two new tyres on the front (FWD) and about 3mm and 5mm on the rear. Brake pads etc are stock. Car has just over 7k km. Car is a Civic type R.

I'm planning on getting an instructor there and only doing half a day (as I don't want to completely wear through my parts)

What do I need to know / do? Can a helmet be rented or will I need to buy one and how does track day insurance work?

Anything else I should know / do / prepare?

Helmets can be rented
There is no track day insurance available in ireland and your road insurance is not valid on the racetrack, some UK companies might offer it if you can find it....

V8 Interceptor

Parapara2017 wrote: »

I'm thinking about tracking my car at Mondello.

You should probably get the tracking done before you go there.

conor2469

If you want a cheap helmet then go on adverts, can buy secondhand helmets very cheap, alternatively you can get helmets in Halfords for 40 euro.

Regarding the car, empty it out so there is no loose stuff to roll around, top up the fluids, do a checkover to make sure everything is tight, tracking as mentioned previous. I'm sure more experienced people will have better advice.

Allinall

conor2469 wrote: »

If you want a cheap helmet then go on adverts, can buy secondhand helmets very cheap, alternatively you can get helmets in Halfords for 40 euro.

.

I would advise against a second hand helmet. It it had had a severe impact, it’s integrity could be compromised,, and it may not protect you as designed.

Similar for motorbike helmets.

If a helmet is involved in any significant impact, best practice is to dispose of it and replace with new.

Irishcrx

Buy a new helmet don't compromise on safety , it's a bad start and they aren't that expensive.

Some tips...

Type R is going to be decent from standard on the track , so don't worry about upgrades or anything just do a track day and see how you like it and then you can think about what the car would need to make the experience better later.

Take it slow on your first time out , learn the track and corners and feel into the car how she handles them then as you gain confidence gradually build up your pace. Likewise , don't engage is racing other cars focus on driving your track at your pace.

Move out of the way when safe of faster cars.

Take a break every couple of laps to allow your engine and brakes to cool , the car is put under a lot of pressure going around a track and stock brakes are going to get very hot , less effective and if you don't give them a rest they make smoke...they're are limits on how many laps you can get depending on car and driving style.

Allow expense for a new set of tyres and possibly brake pads.

Don't forget to check for , bring and attach your cars towing eye

If you plan on recording anything inside the car such as a GoPro the standard suction cups are banned you'll need a steady rail attached to the headrest.

Make sure you have enough fuel or bring some in a container

Bring a standard tool kit , sockets , wrench's , screwdrivers , coolant and oil

Have FUN!

conor2469

Allinall wrote: »

I would advise against a second hand helmet. It it had had a severe impact, it’s integrity could be compromised,, and it may not protect you as designed.

Similar for motorbike helmets.

If a helmet is involved in any significant impact, best practice is to dispose of it and replace with new.

You do have a point about the unknown history of secondhand items, especially for use on a bike, with cars you have a lot more protection. I suppose the natural reaction to trying something new is to go out and purchase everything brand new, only to try it once, not like it and be stuck with new gear you are never going to use again. That is why I suggested for the first time to buy secondhand (Assuming it doesn't look like it slid 50 metres down a road), a cheap new item (Halfords) or maybe even borrow from a friend (Assuming same size).

Some good info here:

https://trackdays.ie/car-track-day-helmets/

Parapara2017

Don't have a spare wheel / tyre, will I need tools? What for?

Likewise will I need extra oil / coolant?

Is there no fuel available at Mondello?

I've heard applying the hand break to hot brakes can result in pads welding to the brakes. How would you avoid this with an electronic one?

Im fairly sure the stock type r is ready for the track at least with how I'd track it and just a half day session. Planning on getting different type of tyre eventually so don't mind excessive wear, to a point 😂

Paddy@CIRL

Definitely speak to the guys at Trackdays.ie, they're a good bunch who will help you in any way they can. It might be best to jump into the passenger seat with someone to familiarise yourself with the track, and get an instructor in with you for your first few laps.

You'll only need tools if something breaks. Bring a tyre pressure gauge to keep an eye them throughout the day, and likewise keep an eye on your oil level and coolant levels. Track driving is tough on a car, but hugely enjoyable and incredibly addictive.

There's an Applegreen station about 5KMs or less from Mondello which you can access at lunch, but if you arrive with a full tank, it should be enough for a half-day.

Something that everyone will tell you is that it's not a race. If someone is quicker than you, regardless of their car, move over and let them past. There will be drivers out in low powered cars which will leave you for dust, and you'll probably find yourself catching much more powerful cars which aren't being driven properly. It's just the nature of track days.

EDIT: RE: Helmet, check out Murray Motorsport. You'll get yourself a brand new Sparco helmet for ~ €100 - https://www.murraymotorsport.com/sparco-club-x-1-helmet-spa003319-c

projectgtr

Parapara2017 wrote: »

I'm thinking about tracking my car at Mondello, I've never done it before so I'm looking for some beginner advice.

The car is my daily driver and has stock everything, it's very recently been serviced (within the month) has two new tyres on the front (FWD) and about 3mm and 5mm on the rear. Brake pads etc are stock. Car has just over 7k km. Car is a Civic type R.

I'm planning on getting an instructor there and only doing half a day (as I don't want to completely wear through my parts)

What do I need to know / do? Can a helmet be rented or will I need to buy one and how does track day insurance work?

Anything else I should know / do / prepare?

IrishCRX has covered most of it very well tbh,the big one is go build up slowly and have fun. One or two things i would add i would definitely get the tyre pressures right (after you get some heat into them) it makes a huge difference. Personally id always do a warm up lap after letting the car cool back down to get everything up to temperature the first corner is no fun on cold tyres. If i could recommend one upgrade i wish i had done on my first time out to you it would be to change your brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point. The instructors there are great if you can i would record your track time its great to look back on to see where you went wrong and how you have improved, if you can record the instructor too it will be great to listen back to also. Also dont be afraid to go out for some passenger laps with other drivers.

What Type R do you drive? is it an EK9 ?

Dartz

Done a couple. Was dog slow each time. Was a good time mind

Puitting your car on track is fine. You won't kill it unless you're really unsympathtic and ignore everything trying to tell you to take it easy. It's hard enough on it so that if there're any weaknesses it will find them - make sure you've coolant, oil and wheel chocks to keep the handbrake of seizing on hot brakes. I used a Halfords set.

And bring the towing eye. The Teleporter is not a fantastic invention from Star Trek - it'll wreck your car if it lifts it. While a towing eye lets them get you out of where you've stuck it (If the threads don't strip from the lug)

Only had the the one frightening moment - the gravel stopped it when I didn't. The only damaged was spending an our and a half getting gravel out from under the tyre beads and brake disks. It still likes to **** a grain of Mondello two years later.

catching much more powerful cars which aren't being driven properly. It's just the nature of track days

It's a bit different when you have to drive the car home mind. Everyone else has these shell trailer and you're like - yeah, I'm slow - but it's going to work on Monday and I sort of need it. Maybe tracking your only car is a bad idea....

I stopped doing it when I realised I can't afford the chance of breaking things.

Parapara2017

projectgtr wrote: »

What Type R do you drive? is it an EK9 ?

FK8 / 2018

Thanks for all the info so far everyone. As it's my first time doing it and it's my daily driver I don't think I'll do it tooooo often so not too sure about buying new gear, but would be a waste of a machine not to do it atleast once probably every now and again

mickdw

I do a few trackdays.
The way I see it, if your car is too good to damage, you will be slow.
I wouldnt take that car out.
If some chap in a 500 quid fiesta swipes the side out of your car, can you afford to just laugh and go home?
Don't get me wrong, your car should be perfectly safe. Most drivers are sensible and give plenty of space but occasionally there are some nutters and you have no comeback.
Trackdays.ie will hire you a mini for half day for sensible enough money.
Mondello appear to have done a job on the trackday guys - mondello themselves have taken over all the good dates this year bar one. Trackdays.ie guys run a better day tbh. Some food, photographer, sensible numbers on track, tyre guy on site sometimes etc.

mickdw

Re helmet. Trackdays.ie hire them but days run by mondello done have helmets available.

rabbitinlights

Some very good advice given already - get as many passenger laps in other cars before you go out. This will give you a much better understanding of breaking points and track position.

I'll never forget the lad driving a Porsche Cayman who lamped it into a wall on his 4th lap - he couldn't handle being overtaken by old civics and tried to chase them down.......

MJH17

The general principle regarding helmets is that you should only use a €40 helmet if you have a €40 head etc.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

MJH17 wrote: »

The general principle regarding helmets is that you should only use a €40 helmet if you have a €40 head etc.

Luckily you have a 20 grand roof on the car, the helmets are for show on a track day, and mondello rent out cheap open face sparco's

Dartz

Abby Skinny Visa wrote: »

Luckily you have a 20 grand roof on the car, the helmets are for show on a track day, and mondello rent out cheap open face sparco's

I'd really disagree.



There're a lot of hard parts in the car for that head to hit.



The idea that helmets are for show is ludicrous.

mickdw

Dartz wrote: »

Abby Skinny Visa wrote: »

Luckily you have a 20 grand roof on the car, the helmets are for show on a track day, and mondello rent out cheap open face sparco's

I'd really disagree.



There're a lot of hard parts in the car for that head to hit.



The idea that helmets are for show is ludicrous.

Well if you are and in a standard car, the helmet is very wise as you can move around a lot if you come off the track.
If you have a race seat and harness, you will move a lot less.

conor2469

MJH17 wrote: »

The general principle regarding helmets is that you should only use a €40 helmet if you have a €40 head etc.

The cost of a helmet isn't necessarily relative to how effective it is, if this site is to be believed - https://sharp.dft.gov.uk/

There are cheaper helmets that outperform more expensive helmets.

b318isp

A few tips:

- As above, start slow and don't try and keep up with someone else. Drive within yourself as confidence builds.
- Focus on the braking, turn in and apex cones/advice - it's given for a very good reason
- Brake as hard as you can, but for the shortest time. You need to give the brakes as much time to cool.
- Avoid gear changing while turning into a corner, you risk unsettling the rear and spinning
- In Mondello, staying in 3rd gear (instead of dropping to 2nd) can keep the car more stable in mid speed corners. What you lose in acceleration, you gain by not over braking and having the car settled.
- The lines of the last corner are a bit unnatural. A late turn in may suit your car. Turning in too early can push you out past the lefthand kerb.
- I don't think any corner needs you to move your hands on the steering wheel, so 10-2 or 9-3 grip can be maintained
- Keep your eyes up, look where you want to be in a few seconds time. This is especially important if the car gets out of shape. Your hands will follow your eyes, trust yourself on this!
- Let muppets go, you are better off wasting 30 seconds to give yourself some free space

In general, when approaching a corner:

- Brake as hard and as short as you can (you'll judge this better with a few laps)
- Change straight to the required gear towards the end of braking (using heel & toe if you are used to it)
- Release the brakes and let the car settle for a moment
- Turn in, eyes on the apex, feeling the grip available and using the throttle to balance
- Introduce the power gradually after the apex as steering lock comes off

Enjoy!

Parapara2017

Thanks for all the advice and tips, just booked a half day slot for Mondello on the 22nd!

arleitiss

Don't bring to track (any track) anything that you aren't prepared to lose/damage.

Bringing your daily sounds like one of them.

cpoh1

Giving your road car time to recover every few laps is key - your tyres, brake fluid, pads and engine oil will be scorching after a few laps and need a rest. Even small things like stopping your car in gear and leaving the hand brake off when letting the car cool - ive seen fellas melt their rear pads onto the discs at the back because of the handbrake.

If you get into it I would be recommending track pads and better fluid along with a change in tyres and swap them over for the track days, makes a huge difference.

Budget for an oil change at a minimum after the track day and possibly pads and tyres too depending on how hard you go.

Parapara2017

So asked earlier dont think I got a response the car has an electronic hand break how do I ensure this stays off as it usually comes on automatically?

Also how will I know if the oil / break fluid needs to be changed?

cpoh1

Parapara2017 wrote: »

So asked earlier dont think I got a response the car has an electronic hand break how do I ensure this stays off as it usually comes on automatically?

Also how will I know if the oil / break fluid needs to be changed?

I would change the oil after every track day. I have an oil temp gauge and it was reaching temps of 120 degrees on track days on my typeR as opposed to 90 on the road. Oil starts to break down at temps like that so definitely a good idea to replace after.

Upgrade your brake fluid to something like motul rbf600 which can take the higher temps and itll be fine after trackdays.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

1. Check tyre pressures, set them a little lower than normal as the heat will increase the pressure over a few laps.

2. Do a warm up and cool down lap.

3. Do no engage your handbreak when you come in.

4. Fill up in the petrol station just before Mondello, you can go through a lot of fuel without noticing.

5. Make sure your mirrors are well adjusted so you see traffic coming from from behind on the left.

6. Make sure your whell bolts are all torqued up.

7. Bring food.

8. Have some oil in the boot just in case.

9. If it rains, slow right right down, a racetrack get way more slippery than the road in the wet.

10. Download GT legends its a old game that has mondello on it, its good to learn the track.

11. Leave the traction control on until the point where you really feel its robbing your acceleration out of corners.

12. Have a towel in the cabin to dry your hands, its sweaty work.

13. Dont speed on the way home, cops everywhere.

Del2005

Parapara2017 wrote: »

So asked earlier dont think I got a response the car has an electronic hand break how do I ensure this stays off as it usually comes on automatically?

Check the owners manual if it can be turned off. Otherwise pop the fuse out, if it doesn't default to safe mode and engage, and remembered to replace when you finish.

jay48

As was already mentioned, do your few sighting Laps behind the pace car, come in and go to one of the instructors and jump in the mazda beside him for a few Laps. Southside/Dunlop is a blind entry, if you haven't braked before you see the gravel trap chances are you'll end up in it. The instructor will show you where to brake. And was said, put your towing eye in and if you have one of those straps that a lot of lads use as a towing eye , bolt it in, don't use cable ties!

Parapara2017

OSI wrote: »

There's 2 buttons beside your gear stick, one labelled auto break and one will a ((P)) logo on it. Turn them off when you start the car.

Comes on itself when the car is shut off though or after 10 mins stopped with engine on.

zilog_jones

OSI wrote: »

There's plenty of videos on YouTube from lads doing laps around Mondello if you want to get a feel for what the track is like.

It's been in a few racing sims, maybe rFactor? Not sure if anything newer though.

Tazzimus

Few small tips from my limited experience of track days.
Warm up/cool down laps, if possible
Keep an eye on fluids throughout the day; oil, brake fluid etc
Keep an eye on tyres and brake pads
Don't brim the fuel tank, 1/2 to 3/4 should be enough and can refill at lunch or something if you don't bring a jerry can
Set aside money for replacement items that will wear throughout the session and will most likely need to be replaced after; pads, tyres
Service the car after the trackday
Spend the first few trips out getting familiar with track and the corners/entry into them
Come in every few laps to give the car a break, especially being your daily driver
If it's organised through a site like trackdays or that, don't be afraid to get talking to people and ask for tips, most will probably have been out a good bit. I did a few with DTD and there was no shortage of help available from the lads.
Bring tools

Probably more that I'm forgetting


Most importantly, prepare to spend a lot of money on future track days as they are addictive as ****.

B00MSTICK

mickdw wrote: »

I do a few trackdays.
The way I see it, if your car is too good to damage, you will be slow.
I wouldnt take that car out.
If some chap in a 500 quid fiesta swipes the side out of your car, can you afford to just laugh and go home?
Don't get me wrong, your car should be perfectly safe. Most drivers are sensible and give plenty of space but occasionally there are some nutters and you have no comeback.
Trackdays.ie will hire you a mini for half day for sensible enough money.
Mondello appear to have done a job on the trackday guys - mondello themselves have taken over all the good dates this year bar one. Trackdays.ie guys run a better day tbh. Some food, photographer, sensible numbers on track, tyre guy on site sometimes etc.

100 times this.

I'm not sure if the OP has been to a trackday before (even as a spectator) but here's my take:
I brought my car with the intention of doing a Trackday a few week ago but I essentially witnessed the post. I did spend the day there, spectated and got a good few passenger spins though.
Now apparently I was there on a pretty 'bad' day with a few lunatics but ~4 cars ended up with pretty significant damage (including one on its side/roof!) due to incidents (that were not the drivers fault) in the half day I was there. These were not due to mechanical failure on the drivers car either, a bit of oil leaks from one car on a corner and you just happen to be behind them...

My suggestion would be to go, be a spectator for a bit and try to do some passenger laps, you'll suddenly get a feel that the people that do it regularly are well into it and those that take their daily drivers are fairly well experienced. They probably aren't driving anything near a 2018 reg too.
If you think you can handle it you can still take your own yoke out armed with a bit more knowledge/understanding.

I had originally booked a half-day (this was a trackdays.ie event) and the people at the desk had no problem at all giving me the money back as I didn't feel up to it. It was still a really good day but my plan would be to rent a car and get a good idea of how to drive on a track - you'll get up to speed faster and won't have to worry about anything going wrong.

Basically this:

arleitiss wrote:

Don't bring to track (any track) anything that you aren't prepared to lose/damage.

Bringing your daily sounds like one of them

Tazzimus

Something I did forget, and this is mostly my own experience, may have changed in the few years since I killed the car:
Public trackdays are a nightmare as you have every wannabe wangan hero out driving like lunatics in cars they don't care too much about.

I found trackdays organised through car sites or the likes to be better as everyone more or less knew each other and had some cop on when out on track.

Maybe that's changed since, but this was what I experienced anyways.

knifey_spoonie

Mondello normally run a Novice session for 10 minutes at the start of the day and just after lunch, make sure you are in the Pitlane and ready for this.

There will be a briefing about 15-20 minutes before the session so in the morning about 8:45 and the afternoon 13:45 make sure your around for that, It's normally held in the grand prix suite above the garages, this is also where you will sign on for the day, make sure to bring your driving license with you.

The first 30 minutes after the start of each session are normally the busiest, so don't just head straight out, let the track calm down and find some space. Don't be afraid to pull off line and circulate at a slower pace in order to get some space on track.

I would say a do a max of 5 fast laps, allow the car to cool down and head out again. Road tyres will turn to mush after 5 fast laps anyway so no point in going any further, lastly dont be too hard on your brakes its very easy to overheat pads and arrive into a turn with no pedal.

Parapara2017

Went out yesterday, went well stayed on the track (just about :pac: )

Was good fun, the instructors were really sound and more than happy to take you for spins. Everyone on the track was mostly sensible, few loons and I'm sure I also did my part in pissing some other drivers off too :eek:

Fairly easy to get your own space, it was busy but found most of the time I was pretty much alone, some corners feel a hit hairy with people trying to get inside you then other people in front cutting across you to turn if you're coming up inside on a straight or something.

No major accidents, lots of red flags for people going off the track.

Steep learning curve, very hard to get used to and I probably was just going to hard into some of the tighter corners. Surprised how small the track was in terms of length not too many places to build up and crazy speed.

The Civic is an absolute monster on the track all stock, didn't even flinch despite any abuse I threw at it can only imagine what it's like with a an experienced skilled driver behind the wheel. No issues with over heating don't think the temp gauge even budged from normal operating temps. Still gave it a break after a couple of laps but it's addicting always telling yourself ah just one more

All in all I'd highly recommend it, even just to try it once. Didn't sort out track day insurance this time but if you're sensible as in don't plough into a barrier yourself there doesn't seem like many opportunities to do any extreme damage.

Went through a tank of fuel in a couple of laps I did, morning session out for around 2 hours with gaps and cool down in between, thought my full tank would be grand! About 10mpg or something :pac:

Also did rent a helmet from them for a 10er

Thanks for all the help and advice, definitely helped and probably kept me on the track!

Tazzimus

Yeah Mondello wouldn't really be a fast track, much better suited for cars set up with good handling and decent gearing.

It's usually why the lower power cars can mostly hang with ones with a lot more power in them.

cpoh1

Parapara2017 wrote: »

No issues with over heating don't think the temp gauge even budged from normal operating temps.

One thing to keep an eye on - your water/coolant temp wont always reflect your engine/oil temp. Ive had my DC5 on track loads back in the day and while the oil temp was hitting 120 degrees the engine temp gauge stayed the same. Oil breaks down at those temps and needs to be replaced! For the sake of 70 quid its well worth doing after a track day especially in cars like the typeRs which thrive on the right levels and quality of oil.

Parapara2017

cpoh1 wrote: »

One thing to keep an eye on - your water/coolant temp wont always reflect your engine/oil temp. Ive had my DC5 on track loads back in the day and while the oil temp was hitting 120 degrees the engine temp gauge stayed the same. Oil breaks down at those temps and needs to be replaced! For the sake of 70 quid its well worth doing after a track day especially in cars like the typeRs which thrive on the right levels and quality of oil.

Did consider that possibility, for a short period and nt too hard pressed would it really be necessary to do a full change?

Tazzimus

I'd do one regardless.
Track time is a lot harder on your car than normal road use.
The car will be grateful for it

Del2005

Parapara2017 wrote: »

Did consider that possibility, for a short period and nt too hard pressed would it really be necessary to do a full change?

Whilst it might not be absolutely necessary wou you not treat the car to some nice fresh oil after the fun it gave you? You can pick up a pump and change the oil easily.

shietpilot

Parapara2017 wrote: »

Went out yesterday, went well stayed on the track (just about :pac: )

Was good fun, the instructors were really sound and more than happy to take you for spins. Everyone on the track was mostly sensible, few loons and I'm sure I also did my part in pissing some other drivers off too :eek:

Fairly easy to get your own space, it was busy but found most of the time I was pretty much alone, some corners feel a hit hairy with people trying to get inside you then other people in front cutting across you to turn if you're coming up inside on a straight or something.

No major accidents, lots of red flags for people going off the track.

Steep learning curve, very hard to get used to and I probably was just going to hard into some of the tighter corners. Surprised how small the track was in terms of length not too many places to build up and crazy speed.

The Civic is an absolute monster on the track all stock, didn't even flinch despite any abuse I threw at it can only imagine what it's like with a an experienced skilled driver behind the wheel. No issues with over heating don't think the temp gauge even budged from normal operating temps. Still gave it a break after a couple of laps but it's addicting always telling yourself ah just one more

All in all I'd highly recommend it, even just to try it once. Didn't sort out track day insurance this time but if you're sensible as in don't plough into a barrier yourself there doesn't seem like many opportunities to do any extreme damage.

Went through a tank of fuel in a couple of laps I did, morning session out for around 2 hours with gaps and cool down in between, thought my full tank would be grand! About 10mpg or something :pac:

Also did rent a helmet from them for a 10er

Thanks for all the help and advice, definitely helped and probably kept me on the track!

Good to see it went well. I was out for the morning session as well with a light blue BMW E36 :pac: