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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,395 ✭✭✭ bennyineire

  • Registered Users Posts: 35 Ronald Binge Redux

    True, but given Official Ireland's proven preference for continual redesign over actual construction of projects...

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭ crushproof

    Yet no one in the Irish Times seems to cop on to the contraction here, just continue to publish their utter drivel.

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell

    Politicians and the media always appear to take the most extreme level of costs - I think it makes it sound 'better' for the perceived audience.

    Unfortunately it informs those putting in bids for such projects.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    Great news. If there's utilities diversion going on by late 2024 we'll be in business.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152

    It's a bit rich from the OPW considering the way they sanitised Merrion Square.

  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ brianc89

    Well yeah I get that. But in fairness, if people understand the carbon cycle and climate change, this wouldn't be an issue. Wood is considered renewable as it grows back (and removes carbon) extremely quickly.

    Felling trees to remove fossil fuel burning cars (very un-renewable) is nothing but positive.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f

    One thing which they could do, in advance of construction of the metrolink, would be to remove the existing parking and build a tramline circuit of the Green. This should be easily doable in, say, two years or less.

    This would readily open up future possibilities for use of, say, Earlsfort Terrace or Merrion Row, for future tram lines into/out of the city. And if the current trams were diverted around this circuit, it would also make it much easier to construct the metrolink station at St. Stephen's Green West. That side is already effectively unused by car traffic and it would be a much better location for the metro station. It's much closer to the busiest parts neighbouring the Green, while the currently planned station is quite remote.

    With the whole of St. Stephen's Green to work with - a side which was originally 4 (four)lanes of traffic, and wide footpaths, there really should be no need to impinge on the park at all.

    This would add a couple of minutes to the Green Line's journey, but could be well worth it for the interim period during metrolink construction. And, as mentioned above, there could be longer term benefits for the tram network.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f

    I'm not following you.

    There would appear to be loads of distaance to allow the route to go between Tara Street and a station at St. Stephen's Green West, via College Park.

    If it can do the proposed O'Connell Street station to Tara Street station quite readily, as seems to be the case, the bit to St. Stephen's Green West should also be doable. Remember, it could be further 'up' St. Stephen's Green West than the current LUAS stop, while still being more useful as a location than the current proposal.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f

    What? How would it be further away from Grafton Street and its environs than the current proposal?

    A very gentle curve from Tara Street, under (for clarification) the College Green soccer pitch in TCD (neighbouring, to the south, the newer libraries), is all that would be needed to get to St. Stephen's Green West.

    A metrolink station located under the current LUAS stop would be ideal, but there is scope along that whole west side of the Green to give the busier parts of that part of the city a station which is much better placed than the current idea.

    The current plan emerged because the metro planners didn't want to build under an active LUAS line, and they also didn't want to unduly disrupt traffic on St. Stephen's Green East. Thus, the plan was to eat into the park itself. The disruption phobia.

    Building tram lines around the park, and connecting them with the current Dawson Street part of the Green Line, would allow the LUAS Green Line to continue its work during metrolink construction, albeit adding around 2 minutes to the Green Line's journey, and would allow sensible metrolink construction to take place in a better location - effectively a 4-lane road with wide footpaths - without causing any disruption to St. Stephen's Green itself.

    In that scenario, there would, of course, be considerable bleating from people who like to park their cars around St. Stephen's Green. In most cases, the answer is to take public transport into the centre of Dublin or, failing that, find somewhere else to park.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,525 ✭✭✭ cgcsb

    There's no RO application for that. We've an RO for the current scheme which is months from being granted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f

    According to the latest plan for Dublin, the metrolink is going to be delivered in the 2031-2036 period. That's around 9 years from now.

    The current metrolink plan has gone in to ABP, who will report and undoubtedly give their approval some time later this year. Then, under the current plan, everyone will sit around for 7-8 years until construction is due to start.

    That seems to be, broadly, the plan, as I understand it.

    If Dublin has all of that time on its hands, why not spend a few months looking at the idea presented above, and maybe envisage what that might possibly enable for other untrammed suburbs, or what changes it might enable for the metrolink.

    Whether the idea of a tram circuit of St. Stephen's Green is deemed to be of merit, or not, a revised or unrevised metrolink proposal could be sent to ABP in, say, 2026. They will then presumably approve it, and metrolink construction will commence 5 or so years after that. That is, broadly in accordance with the current timetable.

  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ brianc89

    It would be very possible to extend the Green line along SSG North to a new Luas Station at SSG East with the Metro.

    Trams from North and South would have additional options for termination rather than all trams having to travel around Trinity.

    OCS and Trinity will be extremely busy with buses when all the new spines are rolled out so removing some trams might be necessary.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭ strassenwo!f

    There you go, Brian. You are very much on the right track.

    Just continue it around to the south side of the Green and connect it with the current LUAS Green line, and you've got what I'm saying.

    The Green Line going around St. Stephen's Green to Dawson Street, probably on a temporary basis, frees up St. Stephen's Green West for construction, with no impact on the park and giving a better station location. .

    With metrolink in place in St. Stephen's Green, would greater LUAS throughput on the Green Line (beyond the current levels, through the city) ever be needed? I have doubts, but a LUAS circuit of the Green could open up all kinds of possibilities if the city needs to deal with higher throughputs on the Green Line south of the canal.

    For example, it has been suggested on this board that there might be a connection along Adelaide Road between Charlemont and Dolphin's Barn, and between Charlemont and Grand Canal Dock. A loop around St. Stephen's Green opens up the possibility to have a spur tramline along Earlsfort Terrace, and possibly to enhance either of those above suggestions. In those circumstances, it's not hard to see, say, a Grand Canal Dock to St. Stephen's Green route along the lines of Grand Canal - Adelaide Road - Earlsfort Terrace - around St. Stephen's Green (when the metrolink is completed) - back to Grand Canal Dock.

    Obviously, the initial rationale for a tram route around St. Stephen's Green South, West and North would be to enable the St. Stephen's Green metrolink station to be built in the best possible location. But, with such a tramline in place, for that specific reason, other eventual possibilities for the tram network may emerge.

  • Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭ brianc89

    Fortunately / unfortunately it's too late to delay this project further by making such a massive change.

    The Metro will be supplemented by buses and an increasing number of Luas lines, so it's exact city centre location doesn't matter.

    @strassenwo!f the current route has been submitted for planning. Fullstop.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,727 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu

    How many people are likely to transfer from Metro to Luas or vice-versa at SSG - you'd do it at Charlemont or OCS rather than spend extra time trundling through the city on a tram; even if they were right beside each other at SSG.