Discovery 2x13 'Such Sweet Sorrow' [Spoilers & Theories Within]

TheValeyard

Here is the Promo..

So, I see a lot of Section31 ships, the mix of faith and destiny again, Sarek on a beach.........The U.S.S. Enterprise in full glory, and Captain Saru (Acting Captain?) it seems

*Water-cooler talk*

I like the Enterprise bridge, mix of the old with new, although im hoping that its only that dark because of Red Alert

Nice to see the TOS uniforms again (although updated, pretty snazzy)

It also seems that another Trek short will be a key part or play a role in this episode!

*Theories*

• Airiam still has a role to play (maybe the merging of Organic and Control into something new=Borg)
  
• If they need a supernova to activate the time crystal, maybe it will cause the Romulus supernova event in the future.
  
• Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff (something gets sent into the far future or far past)
  
• Michael will end up using the timesuit for some reason, save her mother, create the big bang or is the person who actually created Self Sealing Stembolts.
  
• S31 will be 'officially' disbanded and possibly wiped out for the whole nearly destroying organic life accidentally with Control.

Edit: after watching this episode, I kinda hope Control wins.

corkie

'Star Trek': "Such Sweet Sorrow" Photos Bring a 'Short Treks' Character to 'Discovery'

Star Trek: Short Treks episode “Runaway.”


^^^ The thread has already got spoiler warning! So no tags required here, I think!

pixelburp

Hmmm, I hope they manage to work this into the story in a graceful way, because if you haven't seen that Short Treks episode, a viewer would be confused. Given the scriptwriting is often the show's weakest element, I don't hold out hope on this.

What time do these come on Netflix

flazio

bluewolf wrote: »

What time do these come on Netflix

8am

Thanks i always catch up late and never know

liamtech

My Opinion - Not a Very Good Episode - Slow, unimpressive, Unsurprising, and over-all Boring

Yea so i was looking forward to this all week, as being the second last episode i expected we would learn a lot - we didnt learn anything that we didnt already know, or could have easily guessed

• Discovery refuses to explode - yea kinda predictable really - sphere data is sentient etc etc - doesnt wanna be destroyed etc etc
• Bridge of the Enterprise was decent, but iv been watching that bridge (or a version of it) since i was 6, so once the nostalgia ends, its just - cool..
• Michael is again the solution to everything - more on that after
• Discovery must jump to the future - yea lots of people guessed this - so no shock there

Most of this episode centered on Burnham, which is no surprise - except that this episode is the KING OF ALL BURNHAM outings

- Fans are engaged by Control
- what/who is it - is it the Borg
- The battle is coming, its been hyped up for a while - Cant wait to see it - - SO MUCH plot remains to be explained

Instead of addressing any of this, all we got was 50 minutes of how amazing, and loved and respected and awesome Michael Burnham is - shes going to sacrifice herself - great - 40 minutes of 'Goodbyes'.. and 'Your amazing' -

Terrible second last episode

- i really hope the writers are watching fan feedback and realize that, many of us, dont really like the way the universe revolves around her - and are willing to de-centralize her for season 3

Only my opinion - anxious to see what everyone thinks

Final note on overall plot - if this has nothing to do with the borg - a lot of fans are going to be angry - i think its the only way to salvage this season

Metalpanic

Well that was like saying goodbye to my mam on the phone.... bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye bye

Dave0301

Season 3 looks set to be Discovery in the future and them trying to get back to the present?

Again, I thought Pike was good, and I liked the exchange just as he was being transported.

Other than that, a very meh episode.

CramCycle

As someone who overall has enjoyed Discovery, this was possibly the weakest episode, it was insulting to viewers. There is no need to explain so many things multiple times, your just treating viewers, both new and old as idiots. It was painful to watch and have them drag out what should have been 15 minutes to a full episode.

Prep to abandon ship, lets spend an hour or so looking at Mementos. Less than an hour until the attack, lets talk about what to do and then every one take 10 minutes off to record their goodbye letters to friends and family.

Pretty sure I nodded off for long sections, it was painful, with set pieces just thrown in so they could have more "emotion". Mother of God, this should have had the next episode and this one all rolled into one. This show badly needs an editor.

liamtech

CramCycle wrote: »

As someone who overall has enjoyed Discovery, this was possibly the weakest episode, it was insulting to viewers. There is no need to explain so many things multiple times, your just treating viewers, both new and old as idiots. It was painful to watch and have them drag out what should have been 15 minutes to a full episode.

Prep to abandon ship, lets spend an hour or so looking at Mementos. Less than an hour until the attack, lets talk about what to do and then every one take 10 minutes off to record their goodbye letters to friends and family.

Pretty sure I nodded off for long sections, it was painful, with set pieces just thrown in so they could have more "emotion". Mother of God, this should have had the next episode and this one all rolled into one. This show badly needs an editor.

I agree completely - and no one has even discussed the plot holes

They are writing off discovery thanks to the database - fine - it wont self destruct - fine - people are willing to sacrifice themselves - fine

-Did NO ONE THINK of walking into engineering and firing at the warp core?

-Did anyone suggest simply moving photon torpedo's to various places around the ship and detonating them?

-What about the core processor? Blow it up? then physically destroy all of the adjoining memory modules?

-Why not jump the Ship into the center of a Star? that should kinda do it???

-If they are building a NEW TIME SUIT - why is it necessary for Michael to be the one? its NEW! Not a renovated version of the old one? (of course this is simply answered by the fact that Michael Burnham has to be involved in everything

-Why doesn't someone shoot Tilly? (couldn't resist)

CramCycle

liamtech wrote: »

-Did NO ONE THINK of walking into engineering and firing at the warp core?

I think the issue here is that they only realised that the Sphere was in everything after they failed to detonate it, so it would simply stop them doing it as it has so much experience of other Ais and lifeforms.

This of course falls apart when you think that it hung around for S31 ships to land and attack it.

-Did anyone suggest simply moving photon torpedo's to various places around the ship and detonating them?

I presume same issue, Discovery would just beam them out, maybe

-What about the core processor? Blow it up? then physically destroy all of the adjoining memory modules?

This would make the most sense, it doesn't seem to react to them doing anything that doesn't look like it will immedaitely harm it, hatch the pln on Enterprise, access the databanks physically and detonate a phaser.

-Why not jump the Ship into the center of a Star? that should kinda do it???

Would the shields hold long enough for it to move

-If they are building a NEW TIME SUIT - why is it necessary for Michael to be the one? its NEW! Not a renovated version of the old one? (of course this is simply answered by the fact that Michael Burnham has to be involved in everything

They are carbon copying the old one and due to some BS, it needs Michaels Mam, so it needs her DNA but somehow, as you say, they can't change to someone elses DNA, they can change it enough to suit Michaels DNA

Like you said though, they can build a timesuit, outfit every shuttle to be a mini warship etc. in what appears to be little more than an hour or two, somehow, far simpler solutions seem to be outside their remit.

Evade

Having Spock stay on the Discovery really just drains any potential suspense from the episode. The Enterprise sets do look really good.

corkie

Agree lot of filler, 'Message home' from some crew members we don't even know, took a bathroom break during that part.

How did Sarek and Amanda get aboard Enterprise/Discovery in time, in the first place?

If Spock gets sent to the future (and is stuck there). That will surely rip through any remaining ties to CANON!?
^^^ I suppose Micheal could transport him back with the suit.


Edit: - They have build up exceptions for the finale to resolve the canon issues. Hope it is not a complete reset of Micheal's Timeline?
^^^ 'Butterfly effect where one character's interactions has cause and effect'

_Kaiser_

Just stuck this on now..

Intro title sequence just running and the heavy handed idiocy of trying to erase 2 seasons of missteps is already strong.

Will update after I watch the rest of this

The Enterprise bridge looks good though - certainly far better than JJ's Apple store movie versions.

Rawr

Uhhhhhhg.......

I was imagining a *much* better episode than that. How the hell did manage to make an episode about destroying Discovery and evacuating to Enterprise so damned *boring*?!!!

And the goodbyes....and the goodbyes......and the goodbyyyyeeeeeessssss.......

For the love of Bones, don't have Season 3 follow them to the empty far-future....I don't think I'll want to watch that show...I just won't....

I did like 'Captian' Saru's "PREPARE FOR BATTLE" at the end there. That was bad ass.

_Kaiser_

Dear God this show...

- "ok everyone. We have to somehow undo everything we screwed up in the last 2 years because we said this would line up with classic Trek. I know, we'll send Discovery Back to the Future (and that way it'll line up with that only Short Trek that fans liked)"... And that's pre titles!

Cringe-worthy "I love you all" speech from Burnham, the selfless, saviour of all life everywhere and every when because only she can use the time suit (of course!) Kudos to Georgiou for calling out her hero complex though

- How did Sarek and Amanda get on Discovery? That's some shuttlecraft! Pity they didn't bring some backup though. I thought maybe the annoying teen Queen had a stargate or something! :More "you are the greatest Michael! We love you! " stuff

- Cut to another "we love you and we're coming with you" scene with Tilly and the extras/main cast :rolleyes:

- Tyler and Burnham have to have a predictable soap opera lovers scene as the music swells. Not surprising I suppose as that's the background of one of the key writers/producers I think?

- attack imminent and we decide to do facetime messages with the extras next.

- Pike needs to remind us all of their names as we get a "why I love ye all" fly through. Once again, Michael is just the bestest of the best and he is just honoured to have been a part of her journey

- And finally, we get a look at the fleet they intend to use to hold off a Control enhanced battle group.. Shuttles and engineering pods. Come on!

I honestly look forward to reading how anyone can explain away how bad what I just watched was. Awful all round from a show that hasn't exactly set the bar high anyway but continues to fail even still.

liamtech

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I honestly look forward to reading how anyone can explain away how bad what I just watched was. Awful all round from a show that hasn't exactly set the bar high anyway but continues to fail even still.

:pac: - LMFAO! - i was waiting with anticipation for your Opinion on it _Kaiser_ - NAILED IT

BRAVO!

Iv watched it again - painful stuff - i often stand up for disco but not today - its worse the second time through

• That admiral just seems to 'pop up' every now and again - for no apparent reason - this was a low for her - she BASICALLY had no lines - total filler - next season they will have her in a cupboard on a starbase - they open it to get Phasers - 'ADMIRAL'? .... ' YES COMMANDER?
• the 10 odd minutes with Sarek and Amanda made me roar laughing in my office! its like the eve of battle - THE FATE OF ALL SENTIENT LIFE on the line - and 'the folks pop in' - for an auld natter - 'ah sure look your a good girl Michael - we love you'
• how many people said good bye this episode - and to how many different people - everyone says bye to disco - then everyone says bye to Burnham - folks pop in to say Bye - then the crew decides to go - then Ash says bye to Michael - then pike says bye to each of the bridge crew - Stamets says goodbye to the Ex - the bridge crew says goodbye to their families

I am a PRO Star Trek Discovery Trekkie Nut who has spent a lot of money on Trek - i have defended it and continue to do so

BUT MAN this episode stank - it may be THAT BAD that its actually funny!

Anyone fancy a drinking game? When someone says 'Goodbye' - or that they Love someone - Or wishes them well - or reminds us that a Life or Death Battle is about to begin - we do a shot!!!:D

Jmccoy1

The exchange with Georgiou / Pike at the end was fascinating, did his wink imply an ‘I know’ or a ‘me too’. Interesting.

corkie

Den of Geek managed to post a favorable post about this crap episode. ????

Rawr

Jmccoy1 wrote: »

The exchange with Georgiou / Pike at the end was fascinating, did his wink imply an ‘I know’ or a ‘me too’. Interesting.

That bit pissed me off no end. It felt like they were trying to pull a Lorca again :mad:

_Kaiser_

Rawr wrote: »

That bit pissed me off no end. It felt like they were trying to pull a Lorca again :mad:

After the episode I watched today, I'd say it's 50/50 that Lorca comes out of the sonic shower at the end of next week's episode and it was all a dream!

OldMrBrennan83

Apologies if it's been answered but I'm only sticking it on now and haven't read through. The bit at the very start (in the recap), what episode was that from? I've no recollection of it (Tilly beaming some one off the ship).

TheValeyard

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Apologies if it's been answered but I'm only sticking it on now and haven't read through. The bit at the very start (in the recap), what episode was that from? I've no recollection of it (Tilly beaming some one off the ship).

It was a mini episode, before Season two aired. Should be on Netlfix

corkie

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Apologies if it's been answered but I'm only sticking it on now and haven't read through. The bit at the very start (in the recap), what episode was that from? I've no recollection of it (Tilly beaming some one off the ship).

Short Trek Discovery episode 'Runaway'.


If you using/looking for it on Netflix? You probably have to go into the specials section, I believe.

There is four in total and all except Mud's episode ('The Escape Artist') has tie-ins to this season.

fritzelly

Was expecting so much from this episode and severely disappointed

CastorTroy

I thought they were surrounded by Section 31 ships at the end of last week. How did they get away long enough to rendezvous with Enterprise and transfer the entire crew over and back? Spore drive?

fritzelly

CastorTroy wrote: »

I thought they were surrounded by Section 31 ships at the end of last week. How did they get away long enough to rendezvous with Enterprise and transfer the entire crew over and back? Spore drive?

That was a preview, bait and switch for this episode

corkie

CastorTroy wrote: »

I thought they were surrounded by Section 31 ships at the end of last week. How did they get away long enough to rendezvous with Enterprise and transfer the entire crew over and back? Spore drive?

They used the spore drive and told enterprise where to meet them.

flazio

The Short Treks are under "Trailers and more" on Netflix.
Agree with earlier that as soon as Spock agreed to time jump, it was never going to happen.

TheValeyard

I really like what they've done with the Enterprise. Internal & external. Looks very classic mixed with modern.

pixelburp

I really liked the Enterprise bridge design, a perfect marriage of the original look with modern polish. Maybe a touch too large but otherwise it was spot on. And flourishes like the classic photon torpedo sound added to it.

The episode was otherwise so so to me, not getting the hate TBH. Definitely a part 1 of 2 vibe going on, building up to the cliffhanger, but beyond feeling it all a touch dragged out I thought it was ok. There were better episodes this season, but as table settings go it was fine.

Enjoyed the montage of the crew sending their goodbye messages, little postage stamps that added to the dripfeed of texture for the crew

AMKC

So just watched it and have to say it was very predictable and boring. What a waste of an episode. There was one or two small parts that were good like Georgia telling Pike she was from a mirror universe and the Enterprise bridge was nicer than the ibridge from the latest films but not to hard to do. I thought the part with Micheal's parents on the ship was terrible and had hoped she was at least dreaming it but no they just somehow know where Discovery is board it talk to Micheal and then feck off.
I also found it silly that they did at least use some transporters when evacuating Discovery and take forever to get off it but then when they realised they could not destroy it they were all back on it in 10 seconds.

fritzelly

AMKC wrote: »

I also found it silly that they did at least use some transporters when evacuating Discovery and take forever to get off it but then when they realised they could not destroy it they were all back on it in 10 seconds.

Well they did only take essential crew back - 30 or so?

pixelburp

The 14 episode order always seemed passing strange to me, and this episode gave further suspicion that this was meant to be a 13 episode season but the production team had to, for some reason, stretch the finale to a two parter. Seasons of shows - especially online ones - tend towards 10 or 13 episodes these days and 14 stuck out like an odd number.

fritzelly

And maybe the budget restricted them on this episode as well

Goodshape

I thought it was great!

Enterprise looked fantastic. A few too many lights on the bridge though.

They're actually going to move the whole show into the future?? That could be amazing! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

The speeches and goodbyes did go on a bit but that's nothing new. Was fine – provided that they do actually move the ship now, or kill all these people or something, because if I sat through 20 minutes of weepy farewells for nothing, that would sour the whole episode in retrospect.

Some nice Star Trek roundtable problem solving in there. Don't see enough of that on Discovery. Always good.

I liked that Queen lady from the Short Trek. She's sticking around too?


And really.. wow, Enterprise looked great! Looking forward to next week just to see some more.

liamtech

Goodshape wrote: »

I thought it was great!

Enterprise looked fantastic. A few too many lights on the bridge though.

They're actually going to move the whole show into the future?? That could be amazing! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

The speeches and goodbyes did go on a bit but that's nothing new. Was fine – provided that they do actually move the ship now, or kill all these people or something, because if I sat through 20 minutes of weepy farewells for nothing, that would sour the whole episode in retrospect.

Some nice Star Trek roundtable problem solving in there. Don't see enough of that on Discovery. Always good.

I liked that Queen lady from the Short Trek. She's sticking around too?


And really.. wow, Enterprise looked great! Looking forward to next week just to see some more.

Please - tell me what your drinking!! I want to love this show!!! I REALLY DO!!!:(

lol -

Ah look i just hope that your right - season one was decent IMHO - and S2 had SOME good outings but not enough - anyway - maybe this was just a filler episode to meet the 14 episode plan - and next weeks will be extraordinary and tie everything up!

And full steam ahead for picards show - !

Im currently decontaminating by continually watching the Star Wars teaser - the emperor might sort everything out if we ask nicely - Long Live Palpatine

corkie

pixelburp wrote: »

The 14 episode order always seemed passing strange to me, and this episode gave further suspicion that this was meant to be a 13 episode season but the production team had to, for some reason, stretch the finale to a two parter. Seasons of shows - especially online ones - tend towards 10 or 13 episodes these days and 14 stuck out like an odd number.

The episode felt like a write off by the script writers not expecting a third season. So alterations to the story to expand in to a third season.

On rewatch, there is some quality moments in the episode. With some filler.

Mixed positive and negative reviews from some youtuber's.

Stark

Definitely some moments I really enjoyed (The Enterprise looked amazing) but yeah, the pacing was far too laborious. The "queen" and Tilly stuff was just as terrible as it was in the "Short Treks". Could easily have done without both. Thought Georgiou was going to do something totally bad-ass at the very end but then Pike winked back at her and that was the end of that.

Slydice

Oh that episode was so GOOD!

The feeling when they showed the Enterprise bridge. I was apprehensive something would feel off but it just felt right. Obviously not the exact same yet something of what I was expecting from the discovery look. That intro scene to it just felt good.

Then they pulled off a variety of bonding scenes showing a bunch of different types of relationships and they did them well. Sarek being very Vulcan was notable.

I'd worried a little it was gonna end on a sad note with some kind of abandonment of Michael to the suit and her future but it ended strong.

Something very Yesterdays Enterprise feeling going on in my head!

History best not forget the name: Enterprise!

seamus

Can't say I loved it tbh. It did feel like just a long build up to what we want to see, but then we have to wait till next week.

As others have said, Spock being on Discovery basically removes any chance of this "time jump" being a thing, and leads me more towards "Calypso" being an epilogue of the next episode, basically revealing what happens next.

Beautiful visuals is about all the episode had going for it, not exactly one you'd have any need to rewatch in future.

AllForIt

For me that was the worst episode of disco so far.

Way way too much mushy emotion and lack of story development. I actually fast forwarded some of the scenes when I twigged how they were going.

I have to say again as this is the biggest gripe I have with the show and that is that the personality types of a few of the crew (not only Tilly) are totally inappropriate for the role they fill.

Goodshape

seamus wrote: »

As others have said, Spock being on Discovery basically removes any chance of this "time jump" being a thing

I wouldn't say it removes any chance. Just as likely he's onboard *now* so we can yet another and an even bigger goodbye next week when he decides or realises he can't go with them. Or so Burnham can make one more painful personal sacrifice by forcing him to stay.

Or, he does go with them and it's just a sign that he'll get back sometime in the next 8 years or so. That'd be a bit annoying though.

Plenty of possibilities anyway.

helimachoptor

Really liked Pike leaving. Seemed really genuine.
Couldn't care about Burnham tbh.

Enterprise looked awesome. Enough colour to make it looked much better than JJs Bridge imo.

Johnny Storm

I agree with many of the points already made, it was really clunky and boring. Sareks shuttle is way faster than section 31 ships?.... OK maybe he left earlier.
I thought some of the goodbye stuff wasn't too bad... But there was too much of it.
My other gripes:-
- the music when we first see the E was way over the top.
- in recent eps when 2 ships are close together they are not shown in the same plane - after years of that convention it now looks like careless parking.... I know that's very nit-picky...
- OK, who IS the feckin captain, then FFS???
- next weeks ep better be a cracker!

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

I really liked the Enterprise bridge design, a perfect marriage of the original look with modern polish. Maybe a touch too large but otherwise it was spot on. And flourishes like the classic photon torpedo sound added to it.

The episode was otherwise so so to me, not getting the hate TBH. Definitely a part 1 of 2 vibe going on, building up to the cliffhanger, but beyond feeling it all a touch dragged out I thought it was ok. There were better episodes this season, but as table settings go it was fine.

Enjoyed the montage of the crew sending their goodbye messages, little postage stamps that added to the dripfeed of texture for the crew

The episode was 30 minutes too long, with far too much melodrama.
So much filler, I was bored a lot of the time. It felt like how Potter, HungerGames, Hobbit did when stretching out of the material to get more films in.

Enterprise is awesome though. I'd love a Pike prequel.

Sad Professor

I don't know what to make of this show anymore. I'm just watching with bemusement every week.

CramCycle

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I agree with many of the points already made, it was really clunky and boring.

Very clunky. Like trying to start a car which is running on fumes.

Sareks shuttle is way faster than section 31 ships?.... OK maybe he left earlier.

He wasn't there, it was that kind meld from a distance thing.

pixelburp

CramCycle wrote: »

Very clunky. Like trying to start a car which is running on fumes.
He wasn't there, it was that kind meld from a distance thing.

No he was there, we got a shot of a Vulcan shuttle zooming away from Discovery. Space is big, it's not like Sarek couldn't have approached Discovery from a different point in space to the one Enterprise / section 31 was coming from. It was narratively convenient but didn't seem unrealistic either

One major thing, Martin-Greene is not a voice actor, she can not do voice over or read a monologue