Derelict house

Anon5555

Hi. I’m hoping someone on this will know the answer. A derelict house was sold recently for the price of a site and it’s looking like it’s been done up now.
1)Couple of issues-the house is on a very sharp bend and would have sight lines of around 10feet (max)
2) house is completely derelict and has no water electricity or septic system. It has not been lived in since the 1950s.
3) the person after taking has Said they are going to use it as a holiday home and it looks like they are doing it up without going for planning permission.
Is this allowed? We go around the bend every day and it’s honestly very very dangerous going out the gate so I’m not keen on people living there and coming and going.....
There is another issue why I don’t want planning granted also that I’d prefer not to go into.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Squatter

Anon5555 wrote: »

Hi. I’m hoping someone on this will know the answer. A derelict house was sold recently for the price of a site and it’s looking like it’s been done up now.
1)Couple of issues-the house is on a very sharp bend and would have sight lines of around 10feet (max)
2) house is completely derelict and has no water electricity or septic system. It has not been lived in since the 1950s.
3) the person after taking has Said they are going to use it as a holiday home and it looks like they are doing it up without going for planning permission.
Is this allowed? We go around the bend every day and it’s honestly very very dangerous going out the gate so I’m not keen on people living there and coming and going.....
There is another issue why I don’t want planning granted also that I’d prefer not to go into.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Best thing to do is to contact a local councillor or your local Council's planning department. Be sure to give them the full address or a GPS co-ordinate.

Anon5555

Thanks Squatter. Would I have to give my name if lodging an objection? I’d prefer not to in the unlikely event they got approved..... although I honestly can’t see how that would happen

Squatter

Anon5555 wrote: »

Thanks Squatter. Would I have to give my name if lodging an objection? I’d prefer not to in the unlikely event they got approved..... although I honestly can’t see how that would happen

In order to be in a position to lodge an objection then there'd have to be a planning notification posted visibly on the site for four weeks. From what you've written above there hasn't been.

But if a situation is reached where you want to lodge an objection then it couldn't be anonymous.

Effects

Anon5555 wrote: »

We go around the bend every day and it’s honestly very very dangerous going out the gate so I’m not keen on people living there and coming and going.....

Are you worried for their safety or just don't want to have to be careful when driving past yourself?

Anon5555

No there definitely hasn’t been any planning lodged. And I doubt that there will be. So i can raise my concerns and see what they say!!

Anon5555

Are you worried for their safety or just don't want to have to be careful when driving past yourself?[/quote]
Honestly both!! 10feet sightlines is nothing and cars fly on our road at times. I’d worry about us driving past but also that a serious accident could happen as traffic can be heavy enough.

Gumbo

Anon5555 wrote: »

No there definitely hasn’t been any planning lodged. And I doubt that there will be. So i can raise my concerns and see what they say!!

If it’s just renovations to an existing house, planning may not be required.
10 feet sight lines mean nothing if it’s an existing established dwelling.

Anon5555

It has no water electricity or septic tank and hasn’t been lived in since the fifties.... would that be considered an established dwelling?

BarryD2

Anon5555 wrote: »

It has no water electricity or septic tank and hasn’t been lived in since the fifties.... would that be considered an established dwelling?

Isn’t that one reason to buy old buildings? If they’re just doing it up and not building a large extension, no need for PP afaik. Otherwise we’d all be getting PP to redecorate etc. PP for new septic tank or waste treatment required I think, but unlikely to be refused..

BryanF

BarryD2 wrote: »

Isn’t that one reason to buy old buildings? If they’re just doing it up .

Planning is required

BarryD2

BryanF wrote: »

Planning is required

Please elaborate? The OP says derelict which could cover anything from a few roofless stone walls to a building that is roofed but just in need of internal gutting & refurbishment. If I purchased a building like latter for domestic occupation and no change of use, why would I need planning permission??

Maybe OP should post some photos.

Anon5555

It has solid walls and a good roof. I thought if you have to install a septic system you always need planning? I have my doubts that the site will give the minimum requirement needed between someone else’s water and septic tank and their own water and septic tank needing to be installed... it’s a small site and that’s why it was for sale for ten years or so because of those issues along with the entrance.

Lumen

AFAIK on a purely practical point, you won't get an ESB or Irish water connection without a planning reference.

Anon5555

If that’s the case I’d be delighted as there has never been electricity or water there and it would mean I wouldn’t have to make the call....it will happen anyway when they try to get connected. I don’t want and my husband is very against us reporting them but in really not happy with the situation!!

is_that_so

Anon5555 wrote: »

If that’s the case I’d be delighted as there has never been electricity or water there and it would mean I wouldn’t have to make the call....it will happen anyway when they try to get connected. I don’t want and my husband is very against us reporting them but in really not happy with the situation!!

I think you can probably raise your concern with a councillor, preferably a newer more enthusiastic one. Actual councils, on the admin side, in my experience, can be a black hole of "not my job" and ignored requests. I'd go for an email as you can prepare it better. All you're doing is asking questions, as a concerned citizen.

BarryD2

Anon5555 wrote: »

It has solid walls and a good roof. I thought if you have to install a septic system you always need planning? I have my doubts that the site will give the minimum requirement needed between someone else’s water and septic tank and their own water and septic tank needing to be installed... it’s a small site and that’s why it was for sale for ten years or so because of those issues along with the entrance.

Lumen wrote: »

AFAIK on a purely practical point, you won't get an ESB or Irish water connection without a planning reference.

Photos would be useful ... but it reads like this is a rural property and one whose construction which predates any planning requirements. The new owners will need to provide for a water supply (we don't all have the luxury of free public water!!) probably by a bore well or perhaps a rainwater collection system if house is a holiday house. There are sewage treatment systems for constrained sites that don't suit septic tanks. Or maybe the new owners will use composting/ dry toilets - who knows?

Reads here that the OP wants to see this former house left unoccupied for some other reason, but presuming your new neighbours now own the property, maybe just concentrate on getting on with them?

woohoo!!!

Repairing roof and walls, exempt from planning. Living in the house again, exempt. Sinking a well, exempt. Installing a septic tank, needs planning and favourably considered in principle cos existing house. Wholesale changes and additions, likely needs planning. As regards sightlines, well in the persons own interest to improve where they can, perhaps can ask neighbouring landowner to help with this but can't force a neighbouring land owner to do it, maybe one of those mirrors on the opposite side of the road. Need some photos really to comment further

arctictree

BarryD2 wrote: »

Please elaborate? The OP says derelict which could cover anything from a few roofless stone walls to a building that is roofed but just in need of internal gutting & refurbishment. If I purchased a building like latter for domestic occupation and no change of use, why would I need planning permission??

Maybe OP should post some photos.

I've been through this.

A house that is derelict and has not been occupied since the 50s has lost its planning status as a domestic dwelling. It's former use has been abandoned and it's now zoned rural. Your neighbour definitely needs planning to reinstate it's former use. What he is doing n o w is unauthorised development and the enforcement section of the council should be informed. They have to act on it.

woohoo!!!

Yes that's right, abandoned. Plus no attempt to install water and electricity demonstrating intention to abandon. Planning needed to restablish residential use and sightlines at entrance required. A planning enforcement matter. The owner either ceases use or tries to obtain planning permission.

Anon5555

I would genuinely normally have no issues but in this case i do and one of them is unselfish as I don’t feel the entrance is anyway safe-it’s a very sharp bend and 8 feet of sightlines is nothing! I can’t see how it can be ok tl just ignore the need for planning and re open a property the way they are.
Surprisingly neither of the neighboring landowners were asked-they expected to be although I don’t know if they would have sold anyway but that Deff doesn’t seem to be on the agenda. I just am surprised that someone would take such an expensive gamble....as I know there is a few Neighbour’s that aren’t happy.

893bet

Anon5555 wrote: »

There is another issue why I don’t want planning granted also that I’d prefer not to go into.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Let’s be honest. The sight lines mean nothing.

The real reason is the one you don’t want to talk abour.

BarryD2

Anon5555 wrote: »

I would genuinely normally have no issues but in this case i do and one of them is unselfish as I don’t feel the entrance is anyway safe-it’s a very sharp bend and 8 feet of sightlines is nothing!

I suppose you'll just have to do what everyone does in these situations - you know there is a potential hazard, so you slow down and take care. There's all sorts of odd entrances in rural areas.

As for the new occupants, well they'll just take extra care pulling out, install a mirror etc.

Not a problem if there's goodwill all round.

woohoo!!!

893bet wrote: »

Anon5555 wrote: »

There is another issue why I don’t want planning granted also that I’d prefer not to go into.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

Let’s be honest. The sight lines mean nothing.

The real reason is the one you don’t want to talk abour.

Sure and if the poster doesn't want to go into it... I've yet to see an objection out of the good of someone's heart

Anon5555

Honestly objection is 60% the reason I’m not going into. 30% the entrance and 10% the complete disregard for planning laws that we all have to go through! Someone was pulled out of the ditch a few weeks ago down the road from them as they took that turn too sharp. Everyone is just shocked it was sold it’s been on the market that long.
I don’t think we will be lodging an
Objection anyway as my husband feels it would bring bad luck on us. Hopefully they do just use it as a summer home and not an air B&B or something!!!

Anon5555

Honestly objection is 60% the reason I’m not going into. 30% the entrance and 10% the complete disregard for planning laws that we all have to go through! Someone was pulled out of the ditch a few weeks ago down the road from them as they took that turn too sharp. Everyone is just shocked it was sold it’s been on the market that long.
I don’t think we will be lodging an
Objection anyway as my husband feels it would bring bad luck on us. Hopefully they do just use it as a summer home and not an air B&B or something!!!

What are they OP, come on, you can tell us.. black? Traveller? Greek? Did you spot a rainbow on their dashboard? Or are you not liking the idea of tourists on your doorstep?

I'm sure they know what the house's lines of sight is and didn't buy it blindfolded. Why not just let them get on with it. They own the building now, so they're your neighbours and that's pretty much it (unless you decide to move, yourself).

Besides, if the building is on a bend, and it's dangerous, it was always dangerous. Unless they extend even further into a bend (which they won't/can't, obviously) nothing has changed?


Let them at it. No one likes change, but it's rarely as bad as you think it'll be.

Anon5555

]Honestly nothing to do with the people that bought it-they actually seem quite nice which is why I was hesitating jn just straight out reporting them. Had a quick chat and no major drama with them. Also bit of a jump as you know nothing about my sexual orientation/race etc!!!!
I would Deff object to air B and B as the roads too narrow and windy for new people to be driving it regularly!
Several things have changed-the house which was derelict will now be lived in so that’s a big change and also they will be inputting services etc. and also considering the hoops we had to jump through to get planning a few years ago that is a bit annoying!!
My issue (60%) is to do with us as a family and not one anyone else would be aware of and it may not even come down the line. That’s why I’ll prob leave it as is and see how they go. I have a feeling someone else on the road will object anyway so moral dilemma will be taken out of my hands!!!

dellas1979

I fought very, very, very, hard to get planning permission on my site. One side doesnt meet the sight line criteria by about 5 meters.
Nov 2017 is when it was granted eventually.

I had a neighbour up the road (lived on this road all my life) who passed away 4/5 years ago - very old cottage he had.

When it went on the market, it was bought within a short space of time. Now being renovated nearly as quick as my own is being done.

On one side, there is a sight line of about 5 meters. Its a small country road too.

And I couldnt give a fiddlers - what has their project to do with mine? It was build in different times and different rules/laws apply. I simply dont understand why you feel so hard done by. Youre making their joy/achievement about you. You seem bitter perhaps on this aspect. Whereas, I feel proud I fought and fought and got a result. Maybe try see it another way?

We locals know the road and slow down on these spots. We meet people we dont know on the road flying it sometimes. Joy rider there a few months ago.

The only thing I can control is how I drive. Not anyone else.

I am curious what the other complaint is - this seems to be the driving (sorry for the pun) factor.

Am not saying a sight line of this length is ideal. It is not. Neither on my road or your road. But there has to be a workable and sensible solution found. And getting the new owners to leave the place, or straighten the road is never going to happen. Get onto the council and be proactive about them straightening the road/speed bumps, signs etc.

BarryD2

dellas1979 wrote: »

I had a neighbour up the road (lived on this road all my life) who passed away 4/5 years ago - very old cottage he had.

When it went on the market, it was bought within a short space of time. Now being renovated nearly as quick as my own is being done.

Good to see old housing being reused and re purposed. Too many old buildings left to ruin in rural Ireland whilst new bungalows were put up nearby. Sure there are downsides in renovating old properties but it's worth it, a sense of carrying on and 'keeping the fire lit'.

Lumen

Unless they're planning to live off-grid without electricity, sooner or later they're going to have to go for planning, or someone else will report it. So arguably reporting it now will save them a load of money and hassle further down the line.

Sensitively renovating derelict dwellings can be a lovely thing, there's a FB group called "Cottageology - Irish Cottage Renovation & Appreciation" with some great examples, but doing it guerilla style is just misguided.