Crane fly larvae (daddy long legs)

keepalive213

We have a plague of them here, they wouldnt leave a blade of grass at ya. Also known as 'leatherjackets'
From experience I know next year there will be twice as many.
I usually spray for them every second year, I think it was called 'dursban 4' but now I am finding it impossible to source a suitable insecticide, it seems to be banned.
Its hard enough to keep boggy land anyway right without this, I'm sickened.
Any advice appreciated.

Effects

What's the issue with daddy long legs larvae? Speaking from a point of complete ignorance.

keepalive213

Effects wrote: »

What's the issue with daddy long legs larvae? Speaking from a point of complete ignorance.

They eat the roots of the grass and ruin your field.

Effects

I never knew that. Thanks for letting me know.

Say my name

Trying to think of non chemical ways to treat..

Would spreading slurry do the trick? I wonder. Or a roll of a land roller.
Depends on how "boggy" it is I suppose.

A flock of sheep perhaps tightly packed on the ground if you can't get on with a tractor?

It's only a matter of time really before sprays on damp ground will be banned/curtailed. As they are increasingly showing up in ground water and streams from applications.

lab man

They ruined half west Clare in 2013 I think

keepalive213

Say my name wrote: »

Trying to think of non chemical ways to treat..

Would spreading slurry do the trick? I wonder. Or a roll of a land roller.
Depends on how "boggy" it is I suppose.

A flock of sheep perhaps tightly packed on the ground if you can't get on with a tractor?

It's only a matter of time really before sprays on damp ground will be banned/curtailed. As they are increasingly showing up in ground water and streams from applications.

Cheers for the suggestions. From research I have read that rolling the land can help a bit alright.
I can generally travel it from April to October.
The insecticide was the only feasible answer and now that its gone I don't know what they expect people to do.
I suspect that leatherjackets are not a common problem on Irish farms, possibly only in marginal poor soils, so the powers that be don't give a damn.

Edit... Im guessing it couldn't have been all that toxic, hundreds of seagulls and grey back crows would arrive to eat all the dead larvae with no obvious after effects.

Say my name

keepalive213 wrote: »

Cheers for the suggestions. From research I have read that rolling the land can help a bit alright.
I can generally travel it from April to October.
The insecticide was the only feasible answer and now that its gone I don't know what they expect people to do.
I suspect that leatherjackets are not a common problem on Irish farms, possibly only in marginal poor soils, so the powers that be don't give a damn.

It's more to do with farmers are only pawns to play with on a chess board by the powers that be.
That and these chemicals show up in domestic drinking water supplies so instead of training the farmer in use or trying to ensure it doesn't get in the supply, they ban/pull the product off the market.

There was a poster with a crow problem here lately too. Maybe he could lend you a few? :pac:

Maybe there is still a product available to deal with them?
I can't say I ever had the problem here.

_Brian

Say my name wrote: »

It's more to do with farmers are only pawns to play with on a chess board by the powers that be.
That and these chemicals show up in domestic drinking water supplies so instead of training the farmer in use or trying to ensure it doesn't get in the supply, they ban/pull the product off the market.

There was a poster with a crow problem here lately too. Maybe he could lend you a few? :pac:

Maybe there is still a product available to deal with them?
I can't say I ever had the problem here.

Of course testing sciences are soooo much better than ever. It’s important to know what quantities they are in.

Like the whole buzz over roundup being found on cornflakes when tested. I read you’d eat a ton of cornflakes in one sitting and still not reach an dangerous level.

Science is great, except when used by stupid or manipulative people with a hidden addenda.

Squatter

Any use to you? https://www.pitchcare.ie/shop/iguide/crane-fly-or-leatherjackets

We used nematodes a few years ago. Killed off the buggers quite well.

Coincidentally, the first crane fly that I've seen this year flew past my window at 7.50 this morning!

keepalive213

Squatter wrote: »

Any use to you? https://www.pitchcare.ie/shop/iguide/crane-fly-or-leatherjackets

We used nematodes a few years ago. Killed off the buggers quite well.

Coincidentally, the first crane fly that I've seen this year flew past my window at 7.50 this morning!

There is a link there to a product that would do the trick. At 63 pound sterling excluding vat to cover just 500 sq meters it would end up way too expensive and is maybe more suited to lawns. I think I would need 80 containers to do approx 10 acres. Thanks for the suggestion though.

_Brian

I would never have know this was such an issue.

keepalive213

_Brian wrote: »

I would never have know this was such an issue.

Im starting to think the problem could be somewhat location specific.
Boggy land with deep open drains, frost and snow a rare occurrence, shortage of natural predators because there are no trees here for birds.
I only farm as a hobby but this could be a deal breaker if I can't control these pests.

Dinzee Conlee

keepalive213 wrote: »

Im starting to think the problem could be somewhat location specific.
Boggy land with deep open drains, frost and snow a rare occurrence, shortage of natural predators because there are no trees here for birds.
I only farm as a hobby but this could be a deal breaker if I can't control these pests.

I’m like Brian - I didn’t know this was such an issue...
I heard of leatherbacks being an issue for crops all right, but not grassland...

Was this issue always present? Do you know what was done before the sprays became available?

How does rolling or sheep help? Is it the firming of the ground impedes the larvae somehow?
If so - could you get a few sheep to keep over the winter?

Nobbies

keepalive213 wrote: »

We have a plague of them here, they wouldnt leave a blade of grass at ya. Also known as 'leatherjackets'
From experience I know next year there will be twice as many.
I usually spray for them every second year, I think it was called 'dursban 4' but now I am finding it impossible to source a suitable insecticide, it seems to be banned.
Its hard enough to keep boggy land anyway right without this, I'm sickened.
Any advice appreciated.

had a complete infestation of them on the lawn in 2014 after a very wet start to the year. used a product called clinch xl to kill them.it worked but only after raking the ground hard to expose them to the surface. complete NIGHTMARE they were.

Say my name

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

I’m like Brian - I didn’t know this was such an issue...


How does rolling or sheep help? Is it the firming of the ground impedes the larvae somehow?
If so - could you get a few sheep to keep over the winter?

It's the closing up of the air channels that they have to the surface that kills them.
Sheep do some job of compacting land. Not that its always welcome.

I wonder is there an answer here for some biological solution since I am looking at nettle stew now.
Can be used for aphids and ticks.
https://www.nature-and-garden.com/gardening/fermented-stinging-nettle-tea.html
You'd imagine there'd be some plant solution anyways. Ragworth stew. :pac:

The Enbalmer

Say my name wrote:

I wonder is there an answer here for some biological solution since I am looking at nettle stew now. Can be used for aphids and ticks.

Washing up liquid in water?

my3cents

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Washing up liquid in water?

And whats the recommended application rate to the hectare?

Say my name

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Washing up liquid in water?

Probably would work but I'd say we should probably be trying to get away from these petrochemical solutions.
Then you have to grow a crop in the soil afterwards..
Be fairly costly too in more ways than one.

oxjkqg

They wiped out half of west clare in more years than 1.
This is what some of our land looked like February last year.
There are a number of theories behind them, being that they go for younger, more open grass or ground which was slightly poached.
The best preventative method to deal with them is to roll the ground with an empty roller at the end of the season as you finish grazing the ground, it forms the seal and this works.
The spray is now banned. we used use it on every reseed before winter. If you spray a field and a couple of days later you see a flock of birds or gulls landing on the ground, the leather jacket is coming to the surface.
Another theory my tillage friends had on it was to roll ground late in the evening/after dark as they come to the surface then aswell.


They can wipe acre upon acre of land and there is absolutly nothing you can do about it

patsy_mccabe

Living in east Clare and I never heard of this.

Gawddawggonnit

Chlorpyrifos (Dursban) if it’s still on the market.
May not be available anymore because it’s an organophosphate...

keepalive213

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Chlorpyrifos (Dursban) if it’s still on the market.
May not be available anymore because it’s an organophosphate...

I'm sure it was dursban 4 and yeah it's banned now

lab man

oxjkqg wrote:

They wiped out half of west clare in more years than 1. This is what some of our land looked like February last year. There are a number of theories behind them, being that they go for younger, more open grass or ground which was slightly poached. The best preventative method to deal with them is to roll the ground with an empty roller at the end of the season as you finish grazing the ground, it forms the seal and this works. The spray is now banned. we used use it on every reseed before winter. If you spray a field and a couple of days later you see a flock of birds or gulls landing on the ground, the leather jacket is coming to the surface. Another theory my tillage friends had on it was to roll ground late in the evening/after dark as they come to the surface then aswell.

I think in 2014 a lot of seeding was re done again by stitching I think twas after a wet April and may

memorystick

keepalive213 wrote: »

I'm sure it was dursban 4 and yeah it's banned now

A baby was paralyzed from it in America years ago. A house was being treated for cockroaches and the child came into contact with the chemical.

I didn't know it was such a problem on grass. We often had to resow sugar beet after a bad infestation of them years ago.


Is it not great to see the wildlife returning??????????????????????

homewardbound11

We had an infestation before the chemicals were banned . On spraying 10s of thousands came to the surface. They completely at my large garden over a 5 week period .
Trigger was the chemical brand at the time but it is probably illegal now .

Horrendous to watch it happen.
You can draw them to the surface by placing a black polythene on the grass surface . Over night they will come up and how you kill them after that is up to you .
Birds .

Never wrestle with pigs

If they were in an established grass field I'd say a good lash of slurry would be as good as anything.

endacl

Effects wrote: »

What's the issue with daddy long legs larvae? Speaking from a point of complete ignorance.

They develop into daddy long legs. And therefore deserve complete annihilation.

Danzy

Daisy Bush ,Olearia Macrodonta, New Zealand holly.

Different names for same plant, hard sea coast hedging grows 2 feet a year.

Grows readily from hard wood cuttings so when you have a few, you'll have a ready supply.

Might help reintroduce birds, mass of flowers

Sea buckthorn is also something that could be interspersed.

Only thing I can think of as I have **** all else advice info on this problem.

memorystick

Draza pellets?

mirrormatrix

"There is now no pesticide option for controlling these pests, which are a particular nuisance in new sown leys.

Options to manage a high risk situations might include:

Increase grass seed rate to 45 to 50kg / ha
Move to spring re-seeding (especially Frit fly)
Use a catch crop ahead of an autumn re-seed
Fallow the field so that Frit fly larvae will starve – estimate 2 months. (less effective with Leatherjackets)
Use cultivations to bring leatherjackets to surface
Rejuvenate swards by over seeding rather than carrying out a full reseed"

Odelay

They had it in Murraryfield rugby pitch a few years ago. Turned the pitch into complete slip during matches, worst I had ever seen. In the end they removed the pitch and installed new ground.

keepalive213

Thanks for all the input and advice guys. Unfortunately there is no feasible solution for my predicament bar the now banned insecticide.
They are destroying my silage ground and next year there will be twice as many.
As a hobby farmer with a smallholding of marginal land in deepest darkest mayo, it seems that I am powerless to stop these pests. Planting trees, over rolling, expensive nematodes, sourcing slurry, might help but not necessarily.

Dinzee Conlee

keepalive213 wrote: »

Thanks for all the input and advice guys. Unfortunately there is no feasible solution for my predicament bar the now banned insecticide.
They are destroying my silage ground and next year there will be twice as many.
As a hobby farmer with a smallholding of marginal land in deepest darkest mayo, it seems that I am powerless to stop these pests. Planting trees, over rolling, expensive nematodes, sourcing slurry, might help but not necessarily.

This might be of interest, they mention spraying with some kinda plant extract?

https://www.soilassociation.org/our-work-in-scotland/farming-for-the-future/field-labs/controlling-leatherjackets/

Edit : there is an email address in the articles, it might be worth firing off an email to see if they did any more tests?
The spray seems to be some kinda garlic spray? Might be worth asking about that too, altho from what I just read there, it was more effective in the autumn than spring

Birdnuts

memorystick wrote: »

Draza pellets?

AFAIK they have been banned too - wouldn't be effective against leather jackets anyway

keepalive213

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

This might be of interest, they mention spraying with some kinda plant extract?

https://www.soilassociation.org/our-work-in-scotland/farming-for-the-future/field-labs/controlling-leatherjackets/

Edit : there is an email address in the articles, it might be worth firing off an email to see if they did any more tests?
The spray seems to be some kinda garlic spray? Might be worth asking about that too, altho from what I just read there, it was more effective in the autumn than spring

From scanning through that I'd say it would work alright but it only seems available in 1l containers which would end up v expensive. Im gonna email them for info anyway, cheers

Spook_ie

keepalive213 wrote: »

There is a link there to a product that would do the trick. At 63 pound sterling excluding vat to cover just 500 sq meters it would end up way too expensive and is maybe more suited to lawns. I think I would need 80 containers to do approx 10 acres. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Wouldn't the nemotodes breed and be continually effective though?

my3cents

Spook_ie wrote: »

Wouldn't the nemotodes breed and be continually effective though?

Killed off in the winter afaik

Duane Dibbley

Would Eagle Greencare work?

keepalive213

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

Would Eagle Greencare work?

Ridiculously expensive

memorystick

Birdnuts wrote: »

AFAIK they have been banned too - wouldn't be effective against leather jackets anyway

Were they not used when the beer was sowed?

Markcheese

_Brian wrote: »

Of course testing sciences are soooo much better than ever. It’s important to know what quantities they are in.

Like the whole buzz over roundup being found on cornflakes when tested. I read you’d eat a ton of cornflakes in one sitting and still not reach an dangerous level.

Science is great, except when used by stupid or manipulative people with a hidden addenda.

The problem with the roundup on your cornflakes is that it shouldn't be there at all, and humans tend to live longer than a single sitting, so 3 sittings a day (not including snacks and elevenses) by as many years as you like, and it all adds up..

Duane Dibbley

keepalive213 wrote: »

Ridiculously expensive

It seems that Garlic based insecticides seem to be the nemesis to cranefly larvae

I know you can get stuff like Bio green garlic but I’ve never tried it.

Markcheese

We used to get problems with them after ploughing down ley ground, but hadnt come across problems in established leys, is it just your silage ground, or all the fields?

keepalive213

Markcheese wrote: »

We used to get problems with them after ploughing down ley ground, but hadnt come across problems in established leys, is it just your silage ground, or all the fields?

Just the silage ground, my grazing ground is closer to the ocean and more sandy in nature they must not like it.

tabby aspreme

Would one of those heavy Cambridge ring rollers do any good, traditionally ring rollers were used to reduce leather jackets in tillage ground

archer22

Rooks and Starlings are the major natural predators of Crane fly larvae.

Where those birds are scarce the problem is usually worst.

keepalive213

archer22 wrote: »

Rooks and Starlings are the major natural predators of Crane fly larvae.

Where those birds are scarce the problem is usually worst.

There are thousands of sea birds here, seagulls love them when they can get at them but you have to get them above ground first.

archer22

keepalive213 wrote: »

There are thousands of sea birds here, seagulls love them when they can get at them but you have to get them above ground first.

The Rooks and Starlings can dig down to them...that's what they are doing when you see them on grassland pecking hard into the ground

The Seagulls as you say can probably only get them on the surface

Base price

archer22 wrote: »

The Rooks and Starlings can dig down to them...that's what they are doing when you see them on grassland pecking hard into the ground

The Seagulls as you say can probably only get them on the surface

Also Buzzards love digging them out too.

Dinzee Conlee

How are things with these lads now - are they still causing problems?